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DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    No6 wrote: »
    I got my renewal cert today, the direct debit for it came out of my a/c last week, not too bad!!!. Should this thread also now be moved to the new BER forum?

    Sorry to rain on your party No 6: Seriously congrats, hope you make a mill. :) Read on!!!
    Enroll now for your "brush up on your French" course. 3 days course only costs another €1000. (provided by your energy training Co)
    A must for all BER assessors who are serious about providing a quality energy rating to their clients. First 1350 registered assessors to enrol gets a generous €5 discount.

    Your first few easy question No 6 as a registered assessor :rolleyes:

    Ref: A3.2 Existing dwellings.

    1. Excluded from the room count are... "en-suite accommodation and similar"

    Ref: Google search: En suite...In French, a set of two rooms or more forming a single accommodation can be advertised as rooms en suite (forming a suite)
    Q 1. Could this be the Living Room joining say Kitchen/Dining room open plan.
    I understand this whole energy thing is something to do with Europe- EPBD or something.
    Q 2. Shou'nd this apply to me as an EU citizen?
    Should I therefore enter "0" for the the "living room area" ? (excluded room)
    Q 3. Would this dramatically improve my BER?
    Q 4. Should I be discriminated against relative to my French neighbours?

    Ref Google search: En Suite is located on one of the main canals. A nicely decorated apartment in downtown Amsterdam.

    Q 5. Does this mean that all apartments for sale /rent in Ireland are now excluded (exempt) from BER?
    Q 6.Were you hopeing to make a few bob from these when you registered?
    Q 7. Why should I be discriminated against relative to my Amsterdam EU neighbours? :rolleyes:

    Good luck with your new career.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Defnately yes no or maybe to all of the above but I must ask what about the germans?? (the dutch really don't care they'll save the planet after this doobie!!):D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭brianmacl


    MEONLY wrote: »

    Q 1. Could this be the Living Room joining say Kitchen/Dining room open plan.
    I understand this whole energy thing is something to do with Europe- EPBD or something.
    Q 2. Shou'nd this apply to me as an EU citizen?
    Should I therefore enter "0" for the the "living room area" ? (excluded room)
    Q 3. Would this dramatically improve my BER?

    1 I Don't know but this wouldn't be a good idea
    2 Each country or region has their own way of calculating Energy Ratings hence EU houses (therefore their owners) are treated differently to take into account different building standards, climate and different average usage.
    3 no.... one area (living room) is assumed to be heated 3 degrees warmer than the other areas of the house. If the living room is larger then the amount of space that has to be heated to the higher temprature is greater.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    brianmacl wrote: »
    1 I Don't know but this wouldn't be a good idea
    2 Each country or region has their own way of calculating Energy Ratings hence EU houses (therefore their owners) are treated differently to take into account different building standards, climate and different average usage.
    3 no.... one area (living room) is assumed to be heated 3 degrees warmer than the other areas of the house. If the living room is larger then the amount of space that has to be heated to the higher temprature is greater.

    Point being that when the Irish Government/SEI imports French terminology to describe Irish buildings, surely the French meaning comes with it !!!
    3 above. Toungue in cheek! If the Living room area is excluded (en suite) then it does'nt exist,(or does it) hence 0 area. Now your correct description above works in reverse.
    I tried it for curiosity and to my surprise, DEAP actually accepts the Living Room area as 0 and it does improve the BER.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    but its an A rated bidet!!!:D (Honest!!) anyone know the u value of Garlic and Onions. Seriously I bet the french have a much more pragmatic system to comply with the EPBD, if we Irish can find a way to mess it up we'll mess it up completely!!!:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    No6 wrote: »
    but its an A rated bidet!!!:D (Honest!!) anyone know the u value of Garlic and Onions. Seriously I bet the french have a much more pragmatic system to comply with the EPBD, if we Irish can find a way to mess it up we'll mess it up completely!!!:D

    No 6 Have you considered politics & BER. You might get the BER on the Dail. BER needs someone on the inside who understands the system and to remove the Sh... from it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    MEONLY wrote: »
    No 6 Have you considered politics & BER. You might get the BER on the Dail. BER needs someone on the inside who understands the system and to remove the Sh... from it.
    Believe it or not I did a survey in the Dial a long long time ago, spent most of the day in the basement though. I think however that they might just get away without one it being a slightly listed building!!!:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭brianmacl


    MEONLY wrote: »
    Point being that when the Irish Government/SEI imports French terminology to describe Irish buildings, surely the French meaning comes with it !!!
    3 above. Toungue in cheek! If the Living room area is excluded (en suite) then it does'nt exist,(or does it) hence 0 area. Now your correct description above works in reverse.
    I tried it for curiosity and to my surprise, DEAP actually accepts the Living Room area as 0 and it does improve the BER.


    The fact that they can't speak french doesn't surprise me. As I have pointed out previously, their grasp of English is also poor as the legislation was poorly written with a key phrase being missused. Meaning that it is unlikely that people could be prosecuted for not having a BER cert when having a house up for sale.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    brianmacl wrote: »
    The fact that they can't speak french doesn't surprise me. As I have pointed out previously, their grasp of English is also poor as the legislation was poorly written with a key phrase being missused. Meaning that it is unlikely that people could be prosecuted for not having a BER cert when having a house up for sale.

    If one advertises their apartment as an "En-suite for rent/sale".
    Issues with BER involving houses for sale/rent.
    Issues with Provisional Certs, planning, enforcement etc.
    What's left?

    Is there any need for BER assessors?

    The PR job on all this needs renewed vigour from SEI, with the focus on the real issues, rather than the price of a BER. If the public don't support this and begins to ignore the stated legal requirements?

    Can any of it be enforced to the fullest extent if required?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 mspark.guinane@


    No6 wrote: »
    I got my renewal cert today, the direct debit for it came out of my a/c last week, not too bad!!!. Should this thread also now be moved to the new BER forum?
    Hi ,may i ask (as i,m new 2 boards) did u get an assessors cert or did u complete one of the courses i have noticed on offer (€2000 +/-) from CER.??
    i was considering doing a course.....price is a bit steep....:P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 mspark.guinane@


    thanks....very useful.....perhaps there's "fast cash" to be made here...!!!?


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    thats a spambot reply mark.. ignore it


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Flossy Flossy


    This is all very stressful


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,762 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    This is all very stressful
    Eh? Whats very stressful?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Flossy Flossy


    Finding relevant/reliable information when considering committing serious cash on a potential source of income, and my lack of French.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,762 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    This is all very stressful
    Finding relevant/reliable information when considering committing serious cash on a potential source of income, and my lack of French.
    Boo.
    Thats the sum of your 3 posts and frankly I dont see a future here for you unless you can assure me that you are prepared to take this forum seriously..


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Flossy Flossy


    Of your 9,701 the last one is very off topic and no matter how much omni present delusional grandeur your posts give you, your opinion of my future here is, well, irrelevant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,762 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Of your 9,701 the last one is very off topic and no matter how much omni present delusional grandeur your posts give you, your opinion of my future here is, well, irrelevant.
    And that just proves that with nearly 10,000 posts Im capable of spotting a clown.

    Bye for now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 mspark.guinane@


    This is all very stressful
    :pac: what's stressful...?:rolleyes:?:D?:eek:?:confused:?:p?;)?:rolleyes:?:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 mspark.guinane@


    muffler wrote: »
    And that just proves that with nearly 10,000 posts Im capable of spotting a clown.

    Bye for now
    ( all that was a bit silly-billy stuff.....really..!)
    Doing some part-time research @ the moment on all available
    renewable energy types.....
    Not so concerned about costs at the minute,But would like some feed back on all types, either +/- appreciated.
    Thanks.
    msparks


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40 legs akimbo.


    Am doing an assessment on a tiny one bed flat thats only heating system is a single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be, there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water heating so anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating, can I also use supplementary water heating in summer as yes as this makes a positive impact, any advice much appreciated

    Legs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 mspark.guinane@


    Am doing an assessment on a tiny one bed flat thats only heating system is a single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be, there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water heating so anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating, can I also use supplementary water heating in summer as yes as this makes a positive impact, any advice much appreciated

    Legs
    Personally I don't like storage heating......it's a waste of energy and not very effective unless your trying to keep dampness at bay in an old cottage in the west.!!!
    Dimplex Heating use an area sizing chart to determine the output of heat from their storage heaters....you can get that chart from any electrical wholesaler.....The temperature adjustment is also explained....as every room can vary....The hot water tank should definately be lagged....
    thermostat upgraded.
    Hope this is of some help.....
    What type of assessment & for what reason...?
    If you can send me more details i may be of more help.?
    Slan go foill
    MSG:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Hi ,may i ask (as i,m new 2 boards) did u get an assessors cert or did u complete one of the courses i have noticed on offer (€2000 +/-) from CER.??
    i was considering doing a course.....price is a bit steep....:P
    Sorry for the slow response to this, i was away. I got my renewal cert as an assessor because I've been registered for more than a year, I did a course in 2007. I would advise anyone looking at BER not to get into it unless they are prepared to wait a long time to make their money back. The market is over supplied with assessors and there's not enough new or existing work to make a living. If you've doing something else as well it may be worth looking at it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    No6 wrote: »
    Sorry for the slow response to this, i was away. I got my renewal cert as an assessor because I've been registered for more than a year, I did a course in 2007. I would advise anyone looking at BER not to get into it unless they are prepared to wait a long time to make their money back. The market is over supplied with assessors and there's not enough new or existing work to make a living. If you've doing something else as well it may be worth looking at it.

    Would agree 100% with no6.
    There may be a small chance if you are operating in our largest cities.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    Am doing an assessment on a tiny one bed flat thats only heating system is a single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be, there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water heating so anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating, can I also use supplementary water heating in summer as yes as this makes a positive impact, any advice much appreciated

    Legs

    anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating

    You should record accurately whats their. Whether you get an A-G is irrelevant.

    You seeem to have an all electric system. G should'nt be ruled out.

    single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be

    Your info is scarce. DEAP table 4 should help here.
    Most heat emmitors(not all) have some type of controls e.g. timer/tarriff/stat of some type or other.
    You will need to visually establish what type, if any.

    there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water

    Deap table 2 & 3 should help here. Your info is scarce.

    can I also use supplementary water heating in summer

    I'm not sure. You seem to have it all year round. What you describe is usually the supplementary system.
    Others may have come accross this one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    The Sunday Times did an expose on this a while ago. One house, three different ratings. You can read it here

    I can see problems down the line. If I sold you a house with a C3 rating, and it turned out ten years later to be a D2, would you be entitled to sue the assessor for the drop in value, and all the extra energy you had used, because he had keyed in a wrong dimension, or a wrong U value?

    Maybe that's why SEI insists you have 10 year professional indemnity insurance.

    By the way, SEI audits all assessments, but this is probably just their software audit to make sure everything is within certain parameters. They only thoroughly audit some assessments and these require a visit to the inspector to look over the paperwork and calculations etc.

    I am among the 1500 or so assessors who qualified but never coughed up the €1000 to register with SEI. I just don't see a career in it at these prices, and if the only way to compete is to take short-cuts, make sure your insurance premiums are paid up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭rjp123


    Apologies if this has come up before (I'm sure it has) but can anyone point me to a statetment (if it exists) of how SEI are policing this. I think there is still a huge lack of awareness out there (or just people could not be bothered).
    Also is the following hypothetical scenario correct. I get tenants signed up to my new apartment. They don't ask about a BER cert. I don't offer one. 4 months later Inpsector (?) comes to the door looking for Cert for the apartment. It becomes apparent that none exists.
    Does the landlord then have 28 days to get one done and issued or are they immediatley fined. If its the latter why would you bother getting one done off your own bat - you'd just try to stay under the radar and hope that you dont get knock on the door (like TV licence). Incidentally I am an assessor and have TV licence!
    Cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭brianmacl


    rjp123 wrote: »
    Apologies if this has come up before (I'm sure it has) but can anyone point me to a statetment (if it exists) of how SEI are policing this. I think there is still a huge lack of awareness out there (or just people could not be bothered).
    Also is the following hypothetical scenario correct. I get tenants signed up to my new apartment. They don't ask about a BER cert. I don't offer one. 4 months later Inpsector (?) comes to the door looking for Cert for the apartment. It becomes apparent that none exists.
    Does the landlord then have 28 days to get one done and issued or are they immediatley fined. If its the latter why would you bother getting one done off your own bat - you'd just try to stay under the radar and hope that you dont get knock on the door (like TV licence). Incidentally I am an assessor and have TV licence!
    Cheers


    forward on from this... landlord contests fine in court, "your honour SI666 states that a BER cert is required when offering a dwelling for rent or sale. However I only put out an invitation to treat, then the tenant mede an offer to rent it from me." judge looks at SEI with distain and throws case out. suddenly everyone thinks that BERs are a total waste and SEI loose even more credability:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    rjp123 wrote: »
    Apologies if this has come up before (I'm sure it has) but can anyone point me to a statetment (if it exists) of how SEI are policing this. I think there is still a huge lack of awareness out there (or just people could not be bothered).
    Also is the following hypothetical scenario correct. I get tenants signed up to my new apartment. They don't ask about a BER cert. I don't offer one. 4 months later Inpsector (?) comes to the door looking for Cert for the apartment. It becomes apparent that none exists.
    Does the landlord then have 28 days to get one done and issued or are they immediatley fined. If its the latter why would you bother getting one done off your own bat - you'd just try to stay under the radar and hope that you dont get knock on the door (like TV licence). Incidentally I am an assessor and have TV licence!
    Cheers

    I believe ths LA's police the system. Did they police the system when your apartment was first advertised? Do they have the resources to police it 4 months down the road? Unfortunately IMO your correct with 28 days etc.
    Irish people are experts for inventing an Irish solution to an Irish problem:o


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 MEONLY


    The Sunday Times did an expose on this a while ago. One house, three different ratings. You can read it here

    I can see problems down the line. If I sold you a house with a C3 rating, and it turned out ten years later to be a D2, would you be entitled to sue the assessor for the drop in value, and all the extra energy you had used, because he had keyed in a wrong dimension, or a wrong U value?

    Maybe that's why SEI insists you have 10 year professional indemnity insurance.

    By the way, SEI audits all assessments, but this is probably just their software audit to make sure everything is within certain parameters. They only thoroughly audit some assessments and these require a visit to the inspector to look over the paperwork and calculations etc.

    I am among the 1500 or so assessors who qualified but never coughed up the €1000 to register with SEI. I just don't see a career in it at these prices, and if the only way to compete is to take short-cuts, make sure your insurance premiums are paid up!

    IMO the report has done untold damage to the integrity of the system. However it was not the complete system that was investigated, that said enough "mud" has been thrown to do the damage.

    Fear of the unknown re insurance can play tricks on ones mind. PL & PI are a gimme for assessors. I sometimes wonder if this fear issue is being driven by people within the insurance business. It could be "riskey" to get out of bed in the morning. See the glass as half full.:D


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