Uh oh! Just got my new Alfa 159 and...

groupb

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

i think this car was way overprices. at the end of the day its only an alfa. you could of got a much nicer bmw, audi or merc for that money. also they depreciate very quickly compared to the other 3

An Audi is only a dressed up VW. I've had an A4 for a while and its possibly the most overated car I've ever driven.(I had a (far superior) mondeo before it.) An Alfa at the end of the day is all about heritage and design as well as a car engineered by car people. An Audi is just white goods on wheels. In fairness I can't really give out about BMW as they seem to put the drive first with most of their cars. Imagine been stupid enough to pay 30 odd grand for an A3 when you can buy a superior skoda octavia with the same parts for focus money.

Biro

Clytus wrote: »

Can I ask you OP why you changed from a Saab to an Alfa??
I was a Merc devotee till I test drove the Saab 9-3 Vector Sport and now Id find it hard to justify ever going back to Mercedez.

The 159 is a nice car Ill admit...but theres just something about Alfas that just frighten me off them.

You may also want to sit down Clytus, but I was a big fan of the Saab 93 until I drove one last year. It's the worst built car I was ever in, taking into consideration that the one I drove was only a month old. It's nothing short of shocking. The 159 is very well put together, and at the same price as the Saab for the same diesel engine, I'd pick the 159 EVERY time. Better looking by miles, better built, same engine, slightly better value in 2 years time.

colm_mcm

cancan wrote: »

2006 530d - cost 39,000 - now - 28000
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2006-BMW-5-SERIES-530d-M-Sport-Auto_W0QQitemZ320214050340QQihZ011QQcategoryZ9837QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2006 c6 - cost 32,000 now - 25k

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Citroen-C6-2-7-HDi-V6-Exclusive-4dr-Auto_W0QQitemZ330198857483QQihZ014QQcategoryZ18174QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So the bmw would have cost you 4k more for the year to run - thats a lot of extra photocopiers to sell!

sorry, you're basing depreciation figures on what people on ebay are asking?

E92

Tragedy wrote: »

So what exactly are you basing your information on E92? Considering theres been all of... five sold over here.

And since we can import from the UK(and its usually the smart option for executive barges), i dont see how its irrelevant.

I'm basing it on the fact that traditionally Citroens, especially large ones depreciate heavily, and that's being kind. Yes we can import but it is simply untrue to say what goes for over there is automatically going to happen here, if we were the same as the UK we'd be buying a LOT more hot hatches, noone would buy a saloon, we'd never buy 1.6 or 1.4 litre family saloons and hatchbacks respectively, there would be no 316i's, Toyotas would would only be about a quarter as popular as they presently are etc etc.

cancan

colm_mcm wrote: »

sorry, you're basing depreciation figures on what people on ebay are asking?

Have you better figures for me to work off?

Sorry to burst the boards bubble, but the level of awe that surrounds german cars in this place is bloody awful.

Most threads are alfas are bad, german cars are amazing - one can normally guess the responses from the thread title before coming in for a look.

Every car stereotype floats around this place does real cars fans a disservice.

This is a car board - people should at least know something about cars before posting here.

I own x and x are the best seems to the the gist of every thread....

Tragedy

So you're basing your evidence on 10 years ago and the XM?

At least cancan and I have more than "historically, but I have no figures or evidence other than history that i cant back up".

Look on usedcars.ie and compare the 6 citroens c6 to the list price on citroen.ie
Or use the VRT sites OMSP estimation for 05/06 C6's.

E92

cancan wrote: »

End of the day, every smoperty developer, and big egoed sales men in ireland lust after a 5 like an starvin marvin does for a burger.

So common, even the gurards drive em!

With the property downturn, many of these me too saps will be dumping their bmws hurting the resale values even more, to pay for their massive mortgages.

So basically you don't like the 5 series because "everyone" has one and they're "common". Wow, that's insightful, isn't it:rolleyes:? Did you ever think they buy them because there is that dangerous possibility that they might actually be any good?(and FWIW as I've said on many occasions before I'm not a big fan of the present 5 series at all, I much prefer the old one and the one before that too)

It seems to me that whenever we get criticism of BMWs here, 99% of the time it boils down to the fact that the are so "common". If that's the only thing people can criticise about BMW then it says a lot about the people who criticise them and about BMW really.

Why don't people criticise them on something useful e.g. how ugly the Bangleised ones look, the harshness of the E60's ride with run flat tyres etc rather than criticising them on commonality, snob and begrudgery value.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

So basically you don't like the 5 series because "everyone" has one and they're "common". Wow, that's insightful, isn't it:rolleyes:? Did you ever think they buy them because there is that dangerous possibility that they might actually be any good?(and FWIW as I've said on many occasions before I'm not a big fan of the present 5 series at all, I much prefer the old one and the one before that too)

It seems to me that whenever we get criticism of BMWs here, 99% of the time it boils down to the fact that the are so "common". If that's the only thing people can criticise about BMW then it says a lot about the people who criticise them and about BMW really.

Why don't people criticise them on something useful e.g. how ugly the Bangleised ones look, the harshness of the E60's ride with run flat tyres etc rather than criticising them on commonality, snob and begrudgery value.

Well, I like the point of the 5-series, in that it has practicality, driver involvement, and a certain level of comfort, as well as some good engines. (Note SOME!).
However, speaking with a complete non car nut, who gets company cars to the value of around 60 - 80k region, he told me that having owned a 5-series he used always get a sore back on long trips. He changed it for a car that I don't remember, unfortunately, but he liked it, and the time I was speaking to him was in the passenger seat of his new S80 which he also loved. He could drive (according to him) anywhere he liked and be comfortable. He recently borrowed one of the other company director's 5-series and found the old familiar back pain coming back on a long trip.
So in conclustion, speaking with a guy who has by his own admission, feck all car knowledge, feck all interest in car's looks, badge, performance, criticised the 5-series for lack of comfort in comparison for his S80.


The point of my post is that the 5-Series is a good car, but it's not the bee all and end all.

cancan

BMW's and german cars on the whole are far too stifly sprung for irish roads.
The are tuned for at worst, uk roads, and their crap unforgiving ride is blatently obvious on irish roads.
Their dealers hugely inflate all prices.

The biggest problem is that no matter what qualities they have, people buy them for the badge. You're average bmw owner couldn't tell you the difference between ride and handling if it came up and smacked them in the face, no matter what their chassis are tuned for, the underpowered engines they put in the majority of cars they sell in ireland negate any of the rwd benefits.

A typical rebuff from a german car owner to anything non german, is that "it's only an alfa" or something like that, basing their knowledge of their own and others cars on the brand alone.

Reminds me of the indian lads i work with sending iphones to india. Lads hang em off the belt in night clubs to show how cool they are, even though the don't work. Most underpowered/overweight german cars work off the same principle. New money and all the ****e that goes with it...

Hotwheels

Also not the 'optimum' 159 - the 1.9JTDm has a fantastic reputation...

Rightly so...they are excellent to drive, they live for the twisty stuff

Best of luck though. Stunning motor

Second that...:)
Did they give the free service package this time? I'll be changing soon for another one...:)

pburns

cancan wrote: »

Have you better figures for me to work off?

Sorry to burst the boards bubble, but the level of awe that surrounds german cars in this place is bloody awful.

Most threads are alfas are bad, german cars are amazing - one can normally guess the responses from the thread title before coming in for a look.

Every car stereotype floats around this place does real cars fans a disservice.

This is a car board - people should at least know something about cars before posting here.

I own x and x are the best seems to the the gist of every thread....

Couldn't agree more. The obsession with German cars is becoming ever-more pervasive here...

The true car fans are over on the 'Classic Cars' forum. Most here are just BMW/Audi-driving Celtic-Tiger cubs whoose knowledge of cars has only developed in recent years and is mainly influenced by images of JC (Clarkson, not the Messiah) shouting 'P-O-W-E-R' whilst smoking an RS4/M3/AMG (delete where appropriate) round an abandoned track...

blackbox

Fork the begrudgers.

Great car - enjoy it.:)

Hope you get the CC sorted - definitely nice to have.

E92

Biro wrote: »

<snip>
The point of my post is that the 5-Series is a good car, but it's not the bee all and end all.

At last, we have someone criticising the 5 series and BMW on something useful rather than the usual crap that gets spewed out about BMWs being as common as muck etc etc.

As I said in my previous post, I'm not keen on the E60 at all. I certainly don't think the current one is the bee all and end all anyway:D. The E39 and E34 were far better cars. I never liked the look of the E60, I was given a demo of the i-Drive in the 530d a few years ago by somebody who got one and everytime the person wanted to show me any of the features in it, it crashed or did something stupid, and even when it does work, it takes ages to use anything on it(in saying that the latest version in the 7 series is much improved especially with voice control but is still quite flawed). That's a serious flaw in a car especially when you have to use the darn thing for changing the radio, and the ride is not at all good on an M Sport model and run flat tyres.

mvpr

Congratulations - I hope you enjoy the new jammer.

At the end of the day its your money - dont mind any negativity on here. If I had the money, the 159 estate would be outside my front door right now.

Cruise control isnt that necessary in Ireland - we've survived this long without it. Plus, on a car like that, you'll end up taking the back roads more often than not!

I'd be very surprised if it couldnt be retro-fitted if absolutely necessary. Heard from a mate in the trade that base spec Golfs are wired ready for a lot of the extras on higher spec models which are not installed for marketing reasons (we Irish do get screwed!). I could be wrong here...

Will be on the market for one of these in 5 years so do keep us posted!

cock robin

Alfa Romeo have produced some of the most beautifuly designed motors ever. The current 159 is so delicious to look at inside and out. Bmeers and Mercs and Audi will always be volume sellers cause they have the snob factor attached. The passionate motoring fan would never by a German car. Thats why Jaguar's and Alfas sell. If all anybody wanted was a slow depreciating,reliable car the world would be filled with Toyota's. Enjoy your new Alfa, happy in the knowledge that for some of us motoring is about much more than depreciation. Its about appreciation. Re the missing cruise control I would leave well enough alone. Ive had my current motor for 6 months and just realised it has cc. Alfas are fragile enough without having it tampered with so soon. Try get the dealer to give you something in exchange for it.
:D:D

E92

cancan wrote: »

Their dealers hugely inflate all prices.

Dealers have nothing to do with setting prices. BMW Ireland decides that, and all BMWs have a standardised pre VRT price throughout the EU.

cancan wrote: »

The biggest problem is that no matter what qualities they have, people buy them for the badge. You're average bmw owner couldn't tell you the difference between ride and handling if it came up and smacked them in the face, no matter what their chassis are tuned for, the underpowered engines they put in the majority of cars they sell in ireland negate any of the rwd benefits.

I agree that plenty of people buy BMWs buy them for the badge, but they consistently get rave reviews in the press with a couple of exceptions like the X3 and 1 series, an awful lot of car enthusiasts rave about them so there must be more to it than a badge;).

colm_mcm

cancan wrote: »

Have you better figures for me to work off?

There was a comparison done a few years ago between a Citroen C5 HDI and a BMW 320d, (in the UK) it was found that due to the huge discount Citroen was offering on the C5, and on the other end of the scale, BMW not discounting the 3, after 4 years, the BMW lost more, not a percentage, just it lost more money.


I work in the motor trade. If someone came in with a C6 (presuming someone has bought one) and wanted to trade it in. I wouldn't want it. because they don't sell. On the other hand, a 530d will sell itself. Not saying one is a better car than the other, but that's not what depreciation is about. how much a garage can get for something second hand (and ultimately how much a car will lose) is based on what a customer is willing to pay for it.

legs11

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/alfa_romeo/11/ti/101.html

thats a sweet looking car, but the mirrors:eek: hideous.....

interior is quality.

su_dios

Do you notice how once someone mentions alfa on this place certain people seem to think they know everything there is to know about cars and will slate them based on hearsay or a very brief encounter with a lemon. Yet alfa owners generally will not put down any of the german marques. The car is only as good as it is and the brand/reputation is only worth so much.

I've grown up on alfas(my dad's been driving them since early 70's) and I love them. Everything about them. I just bought a golf gt though and I love that too. German and Italian cars are completely different and thats what makes them attractive to their owners. Those who slate alfas should realise its a drivers car and one that has heart. German cars in general are seen as the more sophisticated type. Each to their own I guess.

Also the only reason for their depreciation is due to people who share the same views as those here on boards. If we all changed our minds suddenly, the prices would stay high on residuals. So don't put it down to how the car is put together.

su_dios

legs11 wrote: »

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/alfa_romeo/11/ti/101.html

thats a sweet looking car, but the mirrors:eek: hideous.....

interior is quality.

That does look a lot nicer than standard. Brembo brakes too? Very nice!! I kind of like the mirror covers on the black. Not sure what they'd look like on other colours.

Oh and for those slating alfas you should check out the 8c. Its getting back to what alfa is all about and is easily one of the nicest looking supercars out there.

unkel

smcgiff wrote: »

I refuse to let what the value of my car is in 5 years time compared to a BMW/Audi/Merc/space shuttle worry me. That's in five years time. By then I'll be forty and possibly not interested in cars any more and may even settle for a Merc. But until that day comes I'll be the one driving with a grin on my face.

Quality post. Well wear!

drdre

smcgiff wrote: »

Thanks Unkel, feeling bad enough already. Model lists at €47.5k before Delivery charges. Put approx six k onto it.

There was also a trade in.

It sounds like you just got ripped off

galwaytt

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

i think this car was way overpriced. at the end of the day its only an alfa. you could of got a much nicer bmw, audi or merc for that money. also they depreciate very quickly compared to the other 3

what complete horse manure. You could indeed get a BMW, Audi or Merc. But none of them would be nicer. Cloth seats, mean-as-**** spec, and no pizazz worth talking about......oh, and common-as-muck compared to the 159 as well. Decidedly ordinary, then.......

As for depreciation - the OP is happy, so case closed.

smcgiff excellent choice - I was behind a fabulous pearl blue 08 G one today, and it looked the dogs'.............btw, take a pill about the cruise. Even VAG cars are dealer-fit cruise. The car is prewired for it, all they have to do fit the switch and enable the software on the ECU..............so, relax !

pburns

colm_mcm wrote: »

There was a comparison done a few years ago between a Citroen C5 HDI and a BMW 320d, (in the UK) it was found that due to the huge discount Citroen was offering on the C5, and on the other end of the scale, BMW not discounting the 3, after 4 years, the BMW lost more, not a percentage, just it lost more money.

I work in the motor trade. If someone came in with a C6 (presuming someone has bought one) and wanted to trade it in. I wouldn't want it. because they don't sell. On the other hand, a 530d will sell itself. Not saying one is a better car than the other, but that's not what depreciation is about. how much a garage can get for something second hand (and ultimately how much a car will lose) is based on what a customer is willing to pay for it.

OK - a question...

If someone came in with a 159 diesel would you want it?
Would you offer a ridiculous price to dissuade a potantial customer? Or would you pass it on to an Alfa dealer?

DonJose

If it makes you feel any better my new Ford Galaxy Ghia has cruise control but I haven't figured out how to use it yet. So basically we are in the same boat... that is until I read the user manual

cancan

colm_mcm wrote: »

There was a comparison done a few years ago between a Citroen C5 HDI and a BMW 320d, (in the UK) it was found that due to the huge discount Citroen was offering on the C5, and on the other end of the scale, BMW not discounting the 3, after 4 years, the BMW lost more, not a percentage, just it lost more money.


I work in the motor trade. If someone came in with a C6 (presuming someone has bought one) and wanted to trade it in. I wouldn't want it. because they don't sell. On the other hand, a 530d will sell itself. Not saying one is a better car than the other, but that's not what depreciation is about. how much a garage can get for something second hand (and ultimately how much a car will lose) is based on what a customer is willing to pay for it.

The C5. WTF has the c5 have to do with the issue here?
The c6 is what we are talking about, and if you knew anything about cars, you'd know that a c5 and c6 are a differenct proposition completely.
Just because you work in the trade means absolutly nothing to this arguement.
I love the way you wouldn't want to take a trade without even checking out what price the punter was looking for it. You must win salesman of the month a lot.

And E92, do BMW ireland tell each dealer what to charge for labour, parts etc? What ridiculous figure do they charge for an oil change in dublin?

Most of the german brand have been making a good living selling low quality high cost cars to tiger cubs who know very little if not nothing about cars.

Lets see how their sales are this year....

DonJose

cancan wrote: »

Did you know a citroen c6 depreciates less than a 530D?
I would guess not...

You got to be kidding?

I've never seen a "luxury" car get such low marks on Whatcar.co.uk, I have NEVER seen a car get 1 star for ownership,

"AGAINST As an ownership proposition, a potential disaster: expensive to buy and run; aftersales service and residuals are big worries"

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-summary.aspx?NEW_USED=1&MA_TYPE=1&MA=8&RT=757&Submit1=GO

Guy:Incognito

DonJose wrote: »

You got to be kidding?

I've never seen a "luxury" car get such low marks on Whatcar.co.uk, I have NEVER seen a car get 1 star for ownership,

"AGAINST As an ownership proposition, a potential disaster: expensive to buy and run; aftersales service and residuals are big worries"

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-summary.aspx?NEW_USED=1&MA_TYPE=1&MA=8&RT=757&Submit1=GO

That review also gives it 2 stars for ride and handling saying its best on motorways.

Clarkson drove one alongside a horse raceing track as the camera car (bumpy dirt road) and it destroyed the cars they usually use for that ( BMW or volvo or somesuch, cant remember what it was)

Whats their criteria for a good review? Space & practicality 3 star
Limo-like rear-seat space (surely limo like rear seat space is a good thing , no? )

Parkers give it 4 stars for handling, 5 for comfort and 4 overall. Who to believe?


Personnally I wouldnt consider 42 mpg (2.2 hdi) and 32 mpg (2.7 hdi) as bad at all and certainly not expensive to run. Even less so if you've €70k to drop on a new car. Plus road tax in the uk is £195 & £205 respectivly

DonJose

Stekelly wrote: »

That review also gives it 2 stars for ride and handling saying its best on motorways.

Clarkson drove one alongside a horse raceing track as the camera car (bumpy dirt road) and it destroyed the cars they usually use for that ( BMW or volvo or somesuch, cant remember what it was)

Parkers give it 4 stars for handling, 5 for comfort and 4 overall. Who to believe?

Don't know about its handling but that guy stated, "citroen c6 depreciates less than a 530D". I find that VERY HARD to believe.

DonJose

Stekelly wrote: »

Parkers give it 4 stars for handling, 5 for comfort and 4 overall. Who to believe?

Again we are talking about depreciation of a Citroen C6 Vs a BMW 530.

"A lot of kit for the money, but a lot of money for a Citroën. Unlikely to hold its value as well as premium rivals, so you could be throwing away two thirds of the money you spend by the time you're ready to sell it in three years."

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/review.aspx?model=1452&Page=5