Uh oh! Just got my new Alfa 159 and...

Guy:Incognito

DonJose wrote: »

Again we are talking about depreciation of a Citroen C6 Vs a BMW 530.

"A lot of kit for the money, but a lot of money for a Citroën. Unlikely to hold its value as well as premium rivals, so you could be throwing away two thirds of the money you spend by the time you're ready to sell it in three years."

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/review.aspx?model=1452&Page=5

I was just useing the review as a whole to gauge the reliabilty of it. Most of it is pretty much crap.

Lex Luthor

cock robin wrote: »

for some of us motoring is about much more than depreciation. Its about appreciation.

Quote of the month and its only the 4th....do you mind if I borrow it for my sig? Too late

3ps

Let's make this an Alfa love-in thread. I'll start...

Slidey

First i'dlike to say to the OP, very best of luck with the car.
My old fella was always on about an alfasud he drove eons ago, how impressive it was for engine size.... how all alfas were drivers cars but would break your heart yada yada yada (he is a diesel fitter too)
Hadnt the chance to even sit in one of any kind until recently. It was a 147 with 40k on the clock and i ended up working on this trade in for 2 days after it failed its nct... overly complicated suspension components needed replacing all over, would cry if i had to pay for replacing them... anyway didnt mind, new when i was finished it would be all worth it, would get the test spin. IIRC it was a 1.6 twin spark
Off the lift and it looks nice, different etc. Out the gate.... so so, drive a diesel golf this should feel more exciting... roundabout ahead ahh yes this is what i've been listening to for years.. the drivers car... WTF hopeless undrsteering wallowing.. gutted all that work witout complaing for nothing. driven standard jap scrap civics that are apparently clones without style that would suck this yoke in and blow it out in bubbles....
*rant over*

agent_smith

I am also thinking of changing my car at the moment. I have taken a look at and test driven most cars in that class. By far and away my favorite in terms of looks, feel, drive, handling , the entire package is the alfa. The build quality looks in a different league to the 156.
To be honest, I do not want to take the good out of the OP's car. Like i said earlier. I wish him many happy years of motoring with what i consider to be the absolute sexiest piece of automotive pornography out there sub 100 -150k.
My only worry is that I cannot financially afford to have 44k (for the 159 jtdm lusso which i would love) half in value in two years time if i go to trade it in. I know all cars depreciate, im just watching and waiting on the 159 a little longer to see what residuals are. I know it may depreciate slightly more than a BMW, due to old prejudices around the early 156's. But it looks like a good solid car.
Another example of a company that has turned its build quality image around is KIA. i mean those guys used to put out pieces of crap, then they go and release the ceed and with a 7 year warranty and nice looks (especially the pro ceed). I have no doubt that if kia could turn things aroudn with the ceed, the 159 could and will do the same for alfa, and likely will have good residuals.
As for the comparison to the 5 series and 3 series. To be honest, personally i have driven both. I had considered going for the 3 series but i could not justify it in my head. I would be buying the badge because the design of the current 3 series (regardless of version ,and yes i include m and coupe in that) does as much for me as a 2000 toyota corolla. I just cannot justify spending a lot of money despite the nice drive of the 3 series when i think it looks (IMHO) butt ugly. Having said that i thought the prior gen 3 series was gorgeous as was the year 1999 - 2003/4 5 series. I would much prefer one of those.

Tragedy

DonJose wrote: »

Again we are talking about depreciation of a Citroen C6 Vs a BMW 530.

"A lot of kit for the money, but a lot of money for a Citroën. Unlikely to hold its value as well as premium rivals, so you could be throwing away two thirds of the money you spend by the time you're ready to sell it in three years."

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/review.aspx?model=1452&Page=5

And if you bothered to check, you could see that the cheapest 3 year old C6 in the UK is still roughly 50% of what it cost new, with most being 60-70%.

So no, they arent down to 12k sterling for a 2005 model yet.
Next?

Top Gear gave it 4 out of 5, the only bad thing honest john still has to say about it is "As expected, didn't sell in the UK. Big French cars never do."

Come on people, put at least a modicum of effort in.

Mitch Connor

Anyone have any thoughts on the Alfa GT? With a bit of luck and some saving, I might be able to afford one as my next car, second hand. Have been looking at second hand Audi A4's (either 1.8T or 1.9D turbo), new Fiat Brovo's (either the 1.4 or 1.9D 150bhp versions) but the Alfa Romeo GT is just so damned beautiful, and the Brera is a good way out of the budget.

Lex Luthor

Tauren wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on the Alfa GT? With a bit of luck and some saving, I might be able to afford one as my next car, second hand. Have been looking at second hand Audi A4's (either 1.8T or 1.9D turbo), new Fiat Brovo's (either the 1.4 or 1.9D 150bhp versions) but the Alfa Romeo GT is just so damned beautiful, and the Brera is a good way out of the budget.

great choice Tauren....I'm getting mine in 2 weeks...

MercMad

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

i think this car was way overpriced. at the end of the day its only an alfa. you could of got a much nicer bmw, audi or merc for that money. also they depreciate very quickly compared to the other 3

..........anyone who ever contemplated buying an Alfa has heard that argument and decided "What the hell ! "

Beside nowdays you get screwed no matter what car you buy, so you may as well buy the one you like !

My collegue here has just taken delivery of an Alfa GT 1.9JTD. We wondered if he was mad but when we saw the car OMG !!!

Its fab, I wasn't a fan of it, prefer the 159, but in the flesh in wine metallic with beige hide interior it looks superb !!

One thing though...................he ordered BiXenons and they didn't arrive !!

He's pi55ed off but the dealer said they will retro fit if possible or else refund the cost plus some compensation !

I agree about the method you should take with the dealer, go in gently and you'll get results, its no skin off their back and obviously and oversight !

Enjoy the car and post some photos !!

groupb

cancan wrote: »

BMW's and german cars on the whole are far too stifly sprung for irish roads.
The are tuned for at worst, uk roads, and their crap unforgiving ride is blatently obvious on irish roads.
Their dealers hugely inflate all prices.

The biggest problem is that no matter what qualities they have, people buy them for the badge. You're average bmw owner couldn't tell you the difference between ride and handling if it came up and smacked them in the face, no matter what their chassis are tuned for, the underpowered engines they put in the majority of cars they sell in ireland negate any of the rwd benefits.

A typical rebuff from a german car owner to anything non german, is that "it's only an alfa" or something like that, basing their knowledge of their own and others cars on the brand alone.

Reminds me of the indian lads i work with sending iphones to india. Lads hang em off the belt in night clubs to show how cool they are, even though the don't work. Most underpowered/overweight german cars work off the same principle. New money and all the ****e that goes with it...

How come the biggest selling German car in Ireland -the focus , can get its ride & handling perfect.

groupb

DonJose wrote: »

You got to be kidding?

I've never seen a "luxury" car get such low marks on Whatcar.co.uk, I have NEVER seen a car get 1 star for ownership,

"AGAINST As an ownership proposition, a potential disaster: expensive to buy and run; aftersales service and residuals are big worries"

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-summary.aspx?NEW_USED=1&MA_TYPE=1&MA=8&RT=757&Submit1=GO

I think you look on cars as an "investement". I love cars and therefore the word depreciation does'nt come into the equation with me. Btw What car is a consumer mag , and if you believe what they say I would prefer a relabile citroen (7thplace on their index) to a 20th placed Audi.

E92

cancan wrote: »

The C5. WTF has the c5 have to do with the issue here?
The c6 is what we are talking about, and if you knew anything about cars, you'd know that a c5 and c6 are a differenct proposition completely.
Just because you work in the trade means absolutly nothing to this arguement.
I love the way you wouldn't want to take a trade without even checking out what price the punter was looking for it. You must win salesman of the month a lot.

And E92, do BMW ireland tell each dealer what to charge for labour, parts etc? What ridiculous figure do they charge for an oil change in dublin?

Most of the german brand have been making a good living selling low quality high cost cars to tiger cubs who know very little if not nothing about cars.

Lets see how their sales are this year....

The fact that colm_mcm is involved in the trade means he knows a LOT more about the goings on in the used car market that you, me or anyone else who isn't in the trade for that matter. Leaving aside the merits of each car and the snob value etc, if colm_mcm isn't happy about taking in a C6 but would much rather take in a 530d then there must be a very good reason why.


As for BMW's sales figures, with their committment to pass on the massive VRT savings available in full to the consumer on many of their most popular models,all 5 series bar the 540i, 550i and M5, all 3 series bar the M3 and 335i, all 1 series bar the 130i and 135i, 630i, 635d, X3 2.0d, Z4 2.0i are all going to be cheaper in July, in some cases a LOT cheaper(all 1 series other than those I mentioned,all 4 cylinder 3 series, 325 petrol and diesel, 520d, 525d and 530d with a manual gearbox) so I don't think BMW Ireland have anything at all to be worried about, especially as the CO2 emissions are far lower than anything else out there,(as I have mentioned before, a 325i is a lower CO2 emitter than a 2.4 JTDm Alfa 159, even though one is a 3.0 litre petrol with 6 cylinders and the other is a 2.4 litre diesel with 5 cylinders), the only thing that matches the BMWs on emissions are the 'e' models Audi are bringing out later on in the year, and hybrid cars, but these hybrids will be considerably more expensive than the BMWs, as the 50% VRT rebate is disappearing for these in July.


As for what BMW Ireland does and doesn't do about setting labour rates etc, I have nothing at all to do with them or indeed anything at all in the motor trade, so I have no idea about what goes on there, other than what I said earlier about BMWs having standardised pre VRT prices across the EU and the fact that no matter what car you want to talk about, it is the distributer or manufacturer that decides what the recommended price of a car should be, not the dealer.

And if you're not happy about the cost of labour and servicing in a BMW garage, why not shop around or use a specialist? Nobody says you have to use authorised BMW dealers to get your BMW serviced, now that the EU have gotten rid of the obligation to get your car serviced at a main deasler in order to protect your warranty. The only thing required is that the car is serviced in accordance with BMW's guidelines and using genuine BMW parts.

And I have to say some of the comments by some of the so called "car enthusiasts" in this thread are quite frightening to say the least. There is an awful lot of hippocracy going on by some of the supposed car enthusiasts here, instantly dismissing cars on badge grounds alone.

smcgiff

MercMad wrote: »

I agree about the method you should take with the dealer, go in gently and you'll get results, its no skin off their back and obviously and oversight

Mmm - See new thread.

cancan

E92 wrote: »

The fact that colm_mcm is involved in the trade means he knows a LOT more about the goings on in the used car market that you, me or anyone else who isn't in the trade for that matter. Leaving aside the merits of each car and the snob value etc, if colm_mcm isn't happy about taking in a C6 but would much rather take in a 530d then there must be a very good reason why.

The very fact that he was using the c5/320 for his comparison figures shows me he should do a bit more reading up on the market.

Citroen have been very specific about limiting the supply of the c6, and to date, as much as it galls you, the c6 will loose you less money than a 530d.