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The Falklands War

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    #92
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Shutuplaura wrote: »
    Diplomancy was hardly given a chance. The timespan from invasion by the Argies to final surrender was what - three months? So how can you say it failed? A few days less than even that I believe. The conflict cost, as someone pointed out, almost as many lives as the population of the islands, between injured and the bereved, probably more.

    As for Northern Ireland & Kuiwait, I'm not sure I get where your coming from. Kuiwait has value as its extremely oil rich is suppose - Northern Ireland, I dunno, its speculation for me to say why. If it answers your question I don't think the UK should have been involved in both of these places either.

    Don't get me wrong by the way Fred, i think the Argies were very naughty boys indeed to voilate British soverngty in the south atlantic but two wrongs don't make a right and all those people, British and Argentine died for SFA, unfortunately.

    I don't necessarily disagree with you, but why is it Britain that gets the stick for it. As for sanctions, didn't France veto EU sanctions against Argentina?


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Not to mention the election was coming up soon.

    Technically speaking 1982 was mid-term as the previous election has been in 1979, but the Conservitave party was doing very badly in the opinion polls just before the Falklands invasion. The "Falklands effect" was enough to win them the next election.

    ISTR that Ireland's UN representives were not al all supportive of Britain, as Britain originally wanted the UN involved in evicting the Argentinians from the Falklands, that failed and the Task force sailed.


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    #94
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Being from the UK I can understand being sensitive to criticism of your country but this is a thread about the UK's actions, not anyone elses. Also, other countries, including Ireland get a fair share of condemnation on these boards.

    About sanctions, I think you are mistaken, the EU actually did impose sanctions on Argentina and the US followed suit. Of course I could be wrong, I read this off wikipedia.


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    #95
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Shutuplaura wrote: »
    Being from the UK I can understand being sensitive to criticism of your country but this is a thread about the UK's actions, not anyone elses. Also, other countries, including Ireland get a fair share of condemnation on these boards.

    About sanctions, I think you are mistaken, the EU actually did impose sanctions on Argentina and the US followed suit. Of course I could be wrong, I read this off wikipedia.

    f'sure.

    I recall that the French used their veto, maybe that was at the UN security council.

    Another thing that has come to mind, was the reaction of my next door neighbour. He was part of the first crew on board HMS Southampton, the RN's newest type 42 destroyer. He initially went on board for the ships commissioning and because of the type of ship and it's weapon systems, it did it's commissioning alongside an Argentinian ship The San somehting or other. I remember both ships being alongside each other in Harbour and the two crews sharing a lot of info and a few social nights as well!!

    The Argentine ship broke off it's commissioning early and went back south, two months later it supported the Argentinian landings in the Falklands. Steve was highly p'eed off about this and they were desperate to go and settle the score. HMS Southampton however didn't leave Portsmouth until the war was nearly over, so never saw any "Action".


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    #96
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shutuplaura wrote: »

    About sanctions, I think you are mistaken, the EU actually did impose sanctions on Argentina and the US followed suit. Of course I could be wrong, I read this off wikipedia.


    Possibly, I'm going by memory, they may have been approved when the task force was in position, I can't remember.

    But then again how often have sanctions actually worked!


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    #97
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Deleted User wrote: »

    But then again how often have sanctions actually worked!

    Depends on the purpose of the sanctions.
    If its the cessation of a WMD program, they have worked once:D


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    #98
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Possibly, I'm going by memory, they may have been approved when the task force was in position, I can't remember.

    But then again how often have sanctions actually worked!

    Off hand I couldn't say really. Sanctions are only in the news when they fail from what I can see but its something I know little about to be honest. I think that the Junta's unpopularity and the rapidly sinking Argie economy made it highly possible it would have been successful. But then again, who knows.


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    #99
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    McArmalite wrote: »
    :D Oh, Fred, I know how to push your buttons.

    Are you two flirting again?


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    #100
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Bramble wrote: »
    Are you two flirting again?

    :o I'll just have to wait until his ban is up ;)


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    #101
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    Shutuplaura wrote: »
    About sanctions, I think you are mistaken, the EU actually did impose sanctions on Argentina and the US followed suit. Of course I could be wrong, I read this off wikipedia.

    The EC did impose sanctions at the begining of the conflict but Ireland later withdrew its support for sanctions.

    I think the reason was because Ireland wanted to remain neutral and sanctions would have helped the British militarily. This got CJH into Maggie's bad books if he was not already in them before then, that is.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Did CJH do that to improve his standing in the next elections?


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    #103
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did CJH do that to improve his standing in the next elections?

    Probably did it just to piss her off. Apparently he hated her. My mates mother was his personnal secretary when he was in Dept of Finance. He (my mate) has photos off himself along the Beaumont Road in early 80s with a Charlie sandwich board over him during election time.

    I love the story of CJH giving her a teapot during an official visit here. Must have been sometime in the early 80s.


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    #104
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,056 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Bramble wrote: »
    Probably did it just to piss her off. Apparently he hated her. My mates mother was his personnal secretary when he was in Dept of Finance. He (my mate) has photos off himself along the Beaumont Road in early 80s with a Charlie sandwich board over him during election time.

    I love the story of CJH giving her a teapot during an official visit here. Must have been sometime in the early 80s.

    I think that everybody hated her, except the true-blue Tories.

    One of the news sketches on "Not the 9 O'Clock News" announced that she had been found murdered and that 56 million people were helping the police with their enquiries.


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    #105
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    The EC did impose sanctions at the begining of the conflict but Ireland later withdrew its support for sanctions.

    I think the reason was because Ireland wanted to remain neutral and sanctions would have helped the British militarily. This got CJH into Maggie's bad books if he was not already in them before then, that is.

    Could Ireland have actually stopped the imposition of sanctions though? It seems unlikely, we are a minor country in the EU/EC.


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    #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It wasn't just Ireland that was luke warm on sanctions, Spain (Argentina was a Spanish colony) was very vocal against sanctions. Spain was at the time very keen to reclaim Gibralter, the land border between Gibralter & Spain was still closed because of the sovrenty claim.

    Spain saw this as an opportunity to strengthen its claim on Gibralter.


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    #107
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    except trade sanctions were imposed....Ireland may have objected but couldn't stop it. Either could Italy. So its a moot point


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    #108
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    McArmalite wrote: »
    Some of them are ex brit paras, I suppose they join the Legion to get proper training :)


    I used to know a guy, real Dub, bit of a meat head, who jacked in his job to go and join the French foreign legion. He got invalided out with a busted ear drum during his basic training.

    According to him the two biggest national groupings in the Legion were Brits and Germans. That was in the 80s.

    Just FYI.


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    #109
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    McArmalite wrote: »
    Anyway, the IRA were regularly shooting armed brits a hundred miles or so up the road, no exageration either ;)

    No they weren't. Most of the IRA's targets from the 80s onwards were off duty local men, UDR men, RUC men, police reservists etc.

    Much handier to get these guys when they're milking cattle than when they're in military formation.

    Lets stick to facts and not get into propaganda.


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    #110
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    According to him the two biggest national groupings in the Legion were Brits and Germans. That was in the 80s.

    I believe that the book 'Legionnaire' by a guy called Simon Murray (and another that I can't remember) boosted Legion recruitment of British citizens around then. In the British media and popular culture the FFl have always had a mystic.


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    #111
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    No they weren't. Most of the IRA's targets from the 80s onwards were off duty local men, UDR men, RUC men, police reservists etc.

    Much handier to get these guys when they're milking cattle than when they're in military formation.

    Lets stick to facts and not get into propaganda.

    Well since your the one who seems to have the 'facts' of the circumstances, armed or unarmed, of the execution of brits, ( and UDR men, RUC men are brit forces I think you'd agree ) - could you produce them please ?

    My reply was in responce to our lovely English unionist friend smug, trite dismissal of " the british army were regularly shooting unarmed catholics a hundred miles or so up the road " - reply " bit of an exageration ". But since your so chummy these days with him, I suppose you'd agree with him ?

    Anyway, here's a clip of a typical IRA operation at the time, as you can see, they were much more than capable than just whacking a fella while milking cattle or whatever. ( That was more like the 'goodie' IRA (1916 - 1921) used to do, in fact the first causalty in Cork was an off duty DMP policeman who had come down to Cork to help his brother save the hay and was shot from behind a ditch as he worked in the feild. )

    Presented to British Army by Monaghan IRA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q3Nxt74pQ4 ;)


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    McArmalite wrote: »
    Presented to British Army by Monaghan IRA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q3Nxt74pQ4 ;)
    Your point being.... Where in the Falklands did this happen?

    At least the Army acquired a trophy out of it! :)


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    #113
    the GALL
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭the GALL


    MC ARMALITE
    DOLANBAKER
    The war is over ffs and both tribe went back to tell of glorious deeds done...lets get back to the falklands and how jammy the brits were to winning:D:D:D


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    the GALL wrote: »
    MC ARMALITE
    DOLANBAKER
    The war is over ffs and both tribe went back to tell of glorious deeds done...lets get back to the falklands and how jammy the brits were to winning:D:D:D
    Agree 100%, but trying telling MCA that! :)


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    #115
    Pathfinder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Pathfinder


    the GALL wrote: »
    MC ARMALITE
    DOLANBAKER
    The war is over ffs and both tribe went back to tell of glorious deeds done...lets get back to the falklands and how jammy the brits were to winning:D:D:D




    It was a stunning victory, 8,000 miles from home with virtually no air cover and only possible thanks to the durability of the British soldiers who fought. It had nothing to do with luck, no more then losing a chess game is down to luck.

    British tactical decision making was bang on, it was a war Argentina should have won, but lost, through bad strategic decisions.


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    #116
    the GALL
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭the GALL


    that's nice ....but do remember self praise ai'nt necessarly the best kind


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    #117
    ronnieboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭ronnieboy


    whats up brother is the war still on


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    #118
    ronnieboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭ronnieboy


    we were there when things got tuff but you never buckled mate in fact you showed me the way and i owe it to you to show you the only way is forward brother


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    #119
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Pathfinder wrote: »
    It was a stunning victory, 8,000 miles from home with virtually no air cover and only possible thanks to the durability of the British soldiers who fought. It had nothing to do with luck, no more then losing a chess game is down to luck.

    British tactical decision making was bang on, it was a war Argentina should have won, but lost, through bad strategic decisions.
    The yanks give you satelite cover and told you's where the belgrano was and that it had turned away.But the brave brits torpedoed the ship killing near 400 men


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    #120
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    No they weren't. Most of the IRA's targets from the 80s onwards were off duty local men, UDR men, RUC men, police reservists etc.

    Much handier to get these guys when they're milking cattle than when they're in military formation.

    Lets stick to facts and not get into propaganda.
    These poor off duty udr ruc men were armed to the teeth and the much harder to get at other guys were in helicopters high in the sky or hiding in the local barracks which was usually built beside a school for extra protection


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The sinking of the Belgrano was one of the main turning points in the conflict as it warned the Argentinian navy to stay away.

    A warship within range during hostilities is a legitimate target, it could have just as easily turned round again if unchallanged!

    As a NATO member Britain was entitled to those satellite images, and don't forget that the Royal Navy has radar on the ships! :p


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