Discussion on driving standards in Ireland

HydeRoad

The German situation stands out as being alone among the countries of Europe. I think it will see it's day come soon, as driving standards in general are tightened up across the continent.

Besides that, here is the point: one car, driven by an experienced driver, with hundreds of thousands of miles under his belt, and an accident free record, is reasonably safe at high speeds, on an empty road, or even in the company of a number of other similarly experienced drivers. Indeed, modern high powered cars are designed for speeds of up to 250kph.

The problem is, that you are sharing the road with hundreds of other drivers, 99% of whom have not anything like such experience, and many of whom have no driving experience at all. Many indeed, have only contempt for basic driving standards, and no consideration for other motorists, nor even the most basic observation of the road situation. It is an unfortunate fact that we are dictated by the lowest common denominator, that is we all drive at the level of the least competent driver legitimately on the road. Bear in mind that learner drivers are banned from driving on motorways full of learner drivers!

Never mind 200kph. If you drive at 140 or 150kph on a typical Irish motorway, the car in the inside lane in the far distance ahead most likely has no judgement of your speed, due to inexperience, and likely will not even SEE you coming fast behind until you have already passed!

It is wonderful to cross to the UK, and share the motorways with good, experienced drivers, who for the most part, observe the road, and respect your co-operation and your need to travel long distances in reasonable time. Unfortunately an Irish motorway is a handy shortcut to the shop down the road, full of motorists who are travelling no further than the next exit or two, and who have NO concept of a motorist or working driver who wants to travel from Dublin to Cork within a reasonable four hour time frame.

If one of those inexperienced drivers decides to change lanes at the last minute, and has not even SEEN you, or even considered the possibility of faster moving traffic already in that lane, you cannot stop any make of car from 200kph, even if you threw an anchor out onto the road behind you. And the carnage from a 200kph smash is unimaginable.

Again, it is heartbreaking to the experienced and enthusiastic motorist, who learned well, observes the road, and respects other road users, but the fact is we all drive to the standard of the lowest common denominator, and that means restrictive speed limits.

corktina

spot on HydeRoad....and from that perspective and from the green point of view the limits are arguably too high even now...

mackerski

HydeRoad wrote: »

The problem is, that you are sharing the road with hundreds of other drivers, 99% of whom have not anything like such experience, and many of whom have no driving experience at all. Many indeed, have only contempt for basic driving standards, and no consideration for other motorists, nor even the most basic observation of the road situation. It is an unfortunate fact that we are dictated by the lowest common denominator, that is we all drive at the level of the least competent driver legitimately on the road. Bear in mind that learner drivers are banned from driving on motorways full of learner drivers!

I certainly won't disagree with that. I also believe that the Germans will (eventually) get a general speed limit, even though their driving standard is (mostly) high enough not to require it. But environmental considerations may force the issue.

But to return to my controversial statement - for the reasons you mention, you could never safely do 200 at high traffic levels on an Irish motorway. On an empty one you certainly could. And - let's risk the wrath of the frothing mouth brigade once more - it would be safer, and therefore less deserving of a hefty penalty, than zooming through a town at motorway speeds.

faceman

mackerski wrote: »

I certainly won't disagree with that. I also believe that the Germans will (eventually) get a general speed limit, even though their driving standard is (mostly) high enough not to require it. But environmental considerations may force the issue.

But to return to my controversial statement - for the reasons you mention, you could never safely do 200 at high traffic levels on an Irish motorway. On an empty one you certainly could. And - let's risk the wrath of the frothing mouth brigade once more - it would be safer, and therefore less deserving of a hefty penalty, than zooming through a town at motorway speeds.

Right so now you acknowledge that the competency of the driver is a factor in safety, good.

So if someone is doing 200 on a motorway in ireland and has an accident, should the penalties be less severe too?

ardmacha

Many indeed, have only contempt for basic driving standards, and no consideration for other motorists, nor even the most basic observation of the road situation.

Exactly, it is not only a question of inexperience. In general Irish people drive as much or more than people in Britain, Germany etc. But if you don't give a damn, no amount of experience will make you a good driver. And the authorities in this country do nothing to give the impression that you should give a damn.

mackerski

faceman wrote: »

Right so now you acknowledge that the competency of the driver is a factor in safety, good.

My italics. I've never felt any other way. In fact, it's a point I feel particularly strongly about, and an area generally ignored in discussions of road safety.

faceman wrote: »

So if someone is doing 200 on a motorway in ireland and has an accident, should the penalties be less severe too?

The penalties for any offence should reflect the severity of that offence. Driving at 200 on the motorway could be classed as reckless in many situations, imprudent or careless in others and (I claim) perfectly safe under certain conditions. (and yes, still illegal in this country, don't do it etc.). The degree of the offence can be gauged in a number of ways. Is there also tailgating, threatening behaviour or similar? Is the car under control or moving erratically? Is the road slippy or dry? How is the visibility?

An actual accident may be a further indicator of recklessness. It may, of course, indicate that a slower driver didn't look in his mirror before a lane change, but it remains the responsibility of the faster driver to be able to cope with the unexpected.

By contrast, I can't find many mitigating circumstances for 120 in a built-up 50 zone and the likely consequences are a lot more worrying than those in the motorway example.