Real IRA claims that 'The War Is Back On'

TOMASJ

Just so we have no gripes about my last post

When the Irish in the North are 51% will it be ok for them to ask for a united Ireland or will they have to have the permission of the british or will the six county's have to be split again say to the two countys of Ulster with another artificial majority after all four of the six occupied countys of Ulster + the three in the free state have Irish majority

TOMASJ

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a facility afaik for them to call for a referendum.
I would expect them to wait untill numbers are a little firmer than that because there are some catholic unionists.

I did say Irish in the north I presumed you would have taken it as to not include catholic unionists or exclude protestant republicans

BostonFenian

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't the essence of debate point scoring? After all one side of a debate is usually stronger than the other,not always but usually.
Secondly,is there anything invalid in my suggestion that you go directly to the people(to persuade them) whose consent you've already conceded you need?

Of course a debate has something to do with scoring points, but you and I both know there are better ways to go about such a thing, that offer better chances of success and less chance of being injured. Your suggestion wasn't really a constructive addition to the debate, because we both know that isn't the most effective option available, hence, I said your interest was in scoring points, rather than advancing the debate.

Erin Go Brath

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol Erin go brath.
You haven't quite grasped what the people did have you.
70% of them in the 6 counties voted for the GFA (most of the other 30% were pro union) and somewhere in the high 90's% and definitely a majority of the people of the whole island voted to end our constitutional claim on the North.

No unpermitted veto there.

The 6 County statelet was set up without the approval of the Irish people. A built in Unionist majority statelet was designed to uphold British rule in Ireland.

The GFA was brought about because people were pissed off with decades of violence and sectarianism in the statelet.

A Unification referendum wouldnt produce the same results as that referendum, if that is the ludicrous point you're trying to make.

TOMASJ

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol Erin go brath.
You haven't quite grasped what the people did have you.
70% of them in the 6 counties voted for the GFA (most of the other 30% were pro union) and somewhere in the high 90's% and definitely a majority of the people of the whole island voted to end our constitutional claim on the North.

No unpermitted veto there.

AFAIK their was a trade off get rid if the act of union in exchange for articles 2 and 3 swings and roundabouts

Erin Go Brath

TOMASJ wrote: »

AFAIK their was a trade off get rid if the act of union in exchange for articles 2 and 3 swings and roundabouts

Exactly right. It was all about compromises on both sides, and people voted for it as they perceived it would bring an end to violence. Peoples views on Unification are a completely different thing and not related to this.

Erin Go Brath

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

The 6 County statelet was set up without the approval of the Irish people. A built in Unionist majority statelet was designed to uphold British rule in Ireland.

The GFA was brought about because people were pissed off with decades of violence and sectarianism in the statelet.

A Unification referendum wouldnt produce the same results as that referendum, if that is the ludicrous point you're trying to make.

Do you think a unification referendum in the 26 counties would produce a majority in favour of unification?

I love the way the inconvenient truths are classed as ludicrous by those stuck in the past with notions of 1918 and how people long since dead have somehow a say in what we do now.
We are where we are.

Boston fenian wrote:

Of course a debate has something to do with scoring points, but you and I both know there are better ways to go about such a thing, that offer better chances of success and less chance of being injured. Your suggestion wasn't really a constructive addition to the debate, because we both know that isn't the most effective option available, hence, I said your interest was in scoring points, rather than advancing the debate.

So lost in that somewhere is the answer to my question.
Help me,I can't seem to find it.

I'll pose it again slightly differently and see if I get an answer.
You agree with the consent principle,ie that a majority of the people of NI must be persuaded to go for a UI before one can be implimented.

Do you not agree that door to door canvassing is the best way to go about this?
From experience of listening to unionists (I have the UTV and I have been up there several times),I wouldn't advertise in the Belfast Telegraph and hire out the Odyssey arena as you'd have no unionists there.
T'wud be a waste of your dollars.
You'll have to go door to door.

Pathfinder

TOMASJ wrote: »

If you read the posts proper you may understand.
there is a lot of posts that you dont seem to understand so i will try again
(I recognize those words but I have absolutely no idea what that sentence is supposed to me. Can you try again)
This means put on your glasses (I call them specks) and tell me on what post number (each one is numbered) did I say
The only person who said it was OK for the British to bomb places like Dublin is you when you said that Omagh was legitimate because Dublin was.yours 566
or have you selected sight as well

Do English go around claiming "the Irish" bombed London ?

No they say the PIRA did.

Dublin was not bombed by "the British" it was bombed by the UVF, possibly (never proven) with the unofficial help of elements of the SIS.

Erin Go Brath

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Exactly right. It was all about compromises on both sides, and people voted for it as they perceived it would bring an end to violence. Peoples views on Unification are a completely different thing and not related to this.

I never disagreed with the notion that people in the Republic,a lot of them would like a united Ireland some day.
What you seem to be forgetting is that they want it with the consent of the people there.
That is the policy of the parties that get 90% + of the votes in the 26 counties.
And now that SF are on board it is the view of the parties that get 99% of nationalist votes in NI too.

So your point is what exactly?

Ah you've no point at all I see.

BostonFenian

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think a unification referendum in the 26 counties would produce a majority in favour of unification?

I love the way the inconvenient truths are classed as ludicrous by those stuck in the past with notions of 1918 and how people long since dead have somehow a say in what we do now.
We are where we are.
So lost in that somewhere is the answer to my question.
Help me,I can't seem to find it.

I'll pose it again slightly differently and see if I get an answer.
You agree with the consent principle,ie that a majority of the people of NI must be persuaded to go for a UI before one can be implimented.

Do you not agree that door to door canvassing is the best way to go about this?
From experience of listening to unionists (I have the UTV and I have been up there several times),I wouldn't advertise in the Belfast Telegraph and hire out the Odyssey arena as you'd have no unionists there.
T'wud be a waste of your dollars.
You'll have to go door to door.

I don't know what it is about this board, but people seem to need to have things repeated and spelled out for them ad nauseum.

So, given that I said exactly this:

Your suggestion wasn't really a constructive addition to the debate, because we both know that isn't the most effective option available

do you want to continue asking me if I feel a door to door campaign is the best way?

I said, that I did not feel that going door to door makes much sense. You do know this is not the middle ages, and we have other means of communication, no? If you truly think that door to door would be the best means of launching a campaign to change minds, then I am surprised, because you seem generally smart.

I would go into my ideas about how to proceed, but you would probably pretend that I didn't describe anything, and make me repeat over and over what is already there to be seen on the screen.

Pathfinder

BostonFenian wrote: »

I don't know what it is about this board, but people seem to need to have things repeated and spelled out for them ad nauseum.

So, given that I said exactly this:


do you want to continue asking me if I feel a door to door campaign is the best way?

I said, that I did not feel that going door to door makes much sense. You do know this is not the middle ages, and we have other means of communication, no? If you truly think that door to door would be the best means of launching a campaign to change minds, then I am surprised, because you seem generally smart.

I would go into my ideas about how to proceed, but you would probably pretend that I didn't describe anything, and make me repeat over and over what is already there to be seen on the screen.

Boston Fenian, either way its for people in the north of Ireland do deal with which is what they are attempting to do, it has nothing to do with barstool republicans in Boston.


And if Protestants are planters in Ireland as you claim what are Irish-Americans ?

Erin Go Brath

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think a unification referendum in the 26 counties would produce a majority in favour of unification?

I am certain of it. Most polls done on this show a 2:1 majority if not more in favour. Don't underestimate how patriotic the Irish people are.

Deleted User wrote: »

I love the way the inconvenient truths are classed as ludicrous by those stuck in the past with notions of 1918 and how people long since dead have somehow a say in what we do now.
We are where we are.

The people alive don't have a say, we've not been allowed to have a 32 County referendum to decide our sovereignty. We've been dictated to by a foreign country, and they are still denying us our right to sovereignty of the 32 Counties. The Unionist veto, carefully nurtured by the British is whats standing between us and a United Ireland. The majority of people favour Unity, i've no doubts at all about that.

TOMASJ

Pathfinder wrote: »

Do English go around claiming "the Irish" bombed London ?

No they say the PIRA did.

Dublin was not bombed by "the British" it was bombed by the UVF, possibly (never proven) with the unofficial help of elements of the SIS.

There are a lot of things not proven that the brits were involved in all over Ireland.Ask the Irish people who lived in england after the IRA bombs who the english blamed (all Paddys were the same to them even the unionist Paddys)and were treated like ****

Pathfinder

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

I am certain of it. Most polls done on this show a 2:1 majority if not more in favour. Don't underestimate how patriotic the Irish people are.


The people alive don't have a say, we've not been allowed to have a 32 County referendum to decide our sovereignty. We've been dictated to by a foreign country, and they are still denying us our right to sovereignty of the 32 Counties. The Unionist veto, carefully nurtured by the British is whats standing between us and a United Ireland. The majority of people favour Unity, i've no doubts at all about that.

Erin Go Brath, why do you sport the user name of a slogan first used by an Irish unity fighting to keep slavery in the US civil war. I believe it was invented by the confederate soldier John Mitchell.

Don't you like people who are different or something.

BostonFenian

Pathfinder wrote: »

Boston Fenian, either way its for people in the north of Ireland do deal with which is what they are attempting to do, it has nothing to do with barstool republicans in Boston.


And if Protestants are planters in Ireland as you claim what are Irish-Americans ?

What point are you trying to make? Did I bring protestants into this? I did mention the planters, but I've also in several posts spoke about how important Protestants have been in the formation of the Republic.

Will I still be a 'barstool republican' when my citizenship comes through later this year? My motivation for entering into this debate was to challenge my ideals, and see if they survived in the end, because ultimately, I'm going to be a voter, and I want to be sure where I stand on things, and that my viewpoints are internally consistent. I'm sorry that you have to be perjorative about it.

Not sure I follow your point about Irish-Americans. Are you trying to compare them to the planters? Please flesh that comparison out, if you would. Also keep in mind that my family in America dates back to the 1940s, so we've hardly been here very long.

Pathfinder

TOMASJ wrote: »

There are a lot of things not proven that the brits were involved in all over Ireland.Ask the Irish people who lived in england after the IRA bombs who the english blamed (all Paddys were the same to them even the unionist Paddys)and were treated like ****

Really, where did you live in England then ?


Irish people were/are generally treated well in England, its only sectarian **** stirrers like yourself who try to create a divide.

Normal English and Irish people get on very well.

I very much doubt English people in Dublin would have been treated so well if lets say as an example a group like the NF were exploding bombs every week in Dublin.

Irish people queued up to go to England, thats how bad it was.

A Dub in Glasgo

Pathfinder wrote: »

Erin Go Brath, why do you sport the user name of a slogan first used by an Irish unity fighting to keep slavery in the US civil war. I believe it was invented by the confederate soldier John Mitchell.

Don't you like people who are different or something.

Pathfinder, why do you sport the user name of a group in the regiment that carried out a war crime in Derry?

Don't you like people from Derry or something?

Pathfinder

BostonFenian wrote: »

What point are you trying to make? Did I bring protestants into this? I did mention the planters, but I've also in several posts spoke about how important Protestants have been in the formation of the Republic.

Will I still be a 'barstool republican' when my citizenship comes through later this year? My motivation for entering into this debate was to challenge my ideals, and see if they survived in the end, because ultimately, I'm going to be a voter, and I want to be sure where I stand on things, and that my viewpoints are internally consistent. I'm sorry that you have to be perjorative about it.

Not sure I follow your point about Irish-Americans. Are you trying to compare them to the planters? Please flesh that comparison out, if you would. Also keep in mind that my family in America dates back to the 1940s, so we've hardly been here very long.

Its none of your business to tell the people of NI how to sort out their affairs.

BostonFenian

Pathfinder wrote: »

Its none of your business to tell the people of NI how to sort out their affairs.

Thanks for fleshing out your comparison; your answer is very illuminating.

TOMASJ

Pathfinder wrote: »

Really, where did you live in England then ?


Irish people were/are generally treated well in England, its only sectarian **** stirrers like yourself who try to create a divide.

Normal English and Irish people get on very well.

I very much doubt English people in Dublin would have been treated so well if lets say as an example a group like the NF were exploding bombs every week in Dublin.

Irish people queued up to go to England, thats how bad it was.

Please try and read what has been posted and stop being hysterical

Pathfinder

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Pathfinder, why do you sport the user name of a group in the regiment that carried out a war crime in Derry?

Don't you like people from Derry or something?

War crime :rolleyes:


Lets look at the facts, 1 Para had been under extreme provocation on that tour. Shoots were heard which have never fully been explained, they opened fire, believing they were under attack.

It was a regrettable event, partly caused by 1 Para being on a high state of alert due to PIRA attacks.


I am a former member of the Parachute Regiment.

Pathfinder

TOMASJ wrote: »

Please try and read what has been posted and stop being hysterical

Why don't you just admit you know FA about Irish people living in England, instead of lecturing us about the bad English.

TOMASJ

Pathfinder wrote: »

War crime :rolleyes:


Lets look at the facts, 1 Para had been under extreme provocation on that tour. Shoots were heard which have never fully been explained, they opened fire.

It was a regrettable event, partly caused by 1 Para being on a high state of alert due to PIRA attacks.


I am a former member of the Parachute Regiment.

The paras were move into Derry for that day how could you be under extreme provocation if you were not in Derry until then

Erin Go Brath

Pathfinder wrote: »

Erin Go Brath, why do you sport the user name of a slogan first used by an Irish unity fighting to keep slavery in the US civil war. I believe it was invented by the confederate soldier John Mitchell.

Don't you like people who are different or something.

Whats that got to do with anything? :rolleyes:

I just picked a random username, i could just as easily have picked tomato ketchup as a username. Would you be looking for deep meaning into my username then?

I like all kinds of people, Pathfinder. I even have the courtesy to engage with trolls!

Pathfinder

TOMASJ wrote: »

The paras were move into Derry for that day how could you be under extreme provocation if you were not in Derry until then

1 Para had been under constant attack in Whiterock, the lower falls, etc. It was an emergency tour.

On their previous tour in 69 they had been welcomed and built up good community relations, they were taken by surprise by the hostility when they arrived.

Cakes and cups of tea had been replaced by petrol bombs and snipers.

TOMASJ

Pathfinder wrote: »

Why don't you just admit you know FA about Irish people living in England, instead of lecturing us about the bad English.

I never said the english were bad when I say brits I mean the military sorry if you misunderstood if you were in the North you would have knew what the phrase the brits meant Tell me what you know about Irish people in Ireland other than beating them at check points

TOMASJ

Pathfinder wrote: »

1 Para had been under constant attack in Whiterock, the lower falls, etc. It was an emergency tour.

On their previous tour in 69 they had been welcomed and built up good community relations, they were taken by surprise by the hostility when they arrived.

Cakes and cups of tea had been replaced by petrol bombs and snipers.

Did you ever stop and ask why all had changed from buns to bombs or are you allowed to think for yourself s in the paras

BostonFenian

BostonFenian wrote: »

I don't know what it is about this board, but people seem to need to have things repeated and spelled out for them ad nauseum.

So, given that I said exactly this:


do you want to continue asking me if I feel a door to door campaign is the best way?

You could have given a yes or a no.

I said, that I did not feel that going door to door makes much sense. You do know this is not the middle ages, and we have other means of communication, no? If you truly think that door to door would be the best means of launching a campaign to change minds, then I am surprised, because you seem generally smart.

Well I base my logic on the campaigns of nationalism over the last ten years which has been using all the methods of modern communication.
The best evidence available is that the only thing altering the numbers game is the nationalist birth rate.
Why would you not like to go door to door then among the unconverted (to nationalism) unionists ?
Afraid you'd get the Jehova's withness treatment?

I would go into my ideas about how to proceed, but you would probably pretend that I didn't describe anything, and make me repeat over and over what is already there to be seen on the screen.

To be honest,you've presented none of them whatever they are in the preceding several pages,so I'm doubting they exist.

erin go brath wrote:

I am certain of it. Most polls done on this show a 2:1 majority if not more in favour. Don't underestimate how patriotic the Irish people are.

Cite them.
If they are opinion polls based on consent in NI,then they defeat your modus operandi which seems to be that we should have a UI without majority consent in NI.

The people alive don't have a say, we've not been allowed to have a 32 County referendum to decide our sovereignty. We've been dictated to by a foreign country, and they are still denying us our right to sovereignty of the 32 Counties. The Unionist veto, carefully nurtured by the British is whats standing between us and a United Ireland. The majority of people favour Unity, i've no doubts at all about that.

You've forgotten to include the consent principle.
The rest of what you say refers to people who voted 90 years ago none of which are now alive and whose opinion is far outweighed by the vast majority of living people on this island who either want a UI by consent of the people of NI plus the actual views of those unionists who live in NI and who the likes of you have to persuade for the consent to be given.

Pathfinder

TOMASJ wrote: »

Did you ever stop and ask why all had changed from buns to bombs or are you allowed to think for yourself s in the paras

A number of reasons, a significant one being PIRA activity, which they hide behind the Catholic community to carry out, thus causing a security response against nationalist neighbourhoods and turning the nationalist community against the army, which was the PIRAs objective.

Pathfinder

TOMASJ wrote: »

I never said the english were bad when I say brits I mean the military sorry if you misunderstood if you were in the North you would have knew what the phrase the brits meant Tell me what you know about Irish people in Ireland other than beating them at check points

So you are claiming ordinary Irish people drew up in their cars at army VCPs and were dragged out of their cars and beaten :rolleyes:


This is typical Sinn Fein/PIRA lies.