Real IRA claims that 'The War Is Back On'

Fratton Fred

TOMASJ wrote: »

BETTER ROADS' your joking aren't you, the education is far from perfect SINN FINN is working on that at moment so soon that will be sorted, After they fix education they will sort out (Policing and Justice), the infrastructure/transport is only as good as the roads are, and if you drive anywhere west from Belfast you should know what a joke the roads are there

why stop there, I'm sure Sinn Fein will sort out world hunger, global warming and the Ireland football team as well

Ok, the Irish football team may be a bit of a long shot

Zombrex

TOMASJ wrote: »

BETTER ROADS' your joking aren't you, the education is far from perfect SINN FINN is working on that at moment so soon that will be sorted

What? Will 98% of schools soon be run by the Catholic Church and non-Catholic children will be discriminated against in school places?

Perhaps Sinn Fein might fix the schools in the Republic before you starting convincing the people in the North that the N.I education system would be better off in a United Ireland.

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

why stop there, I'm sure Sinn Fein will sort out world hunger, global warming and the Ireland football team as well

And maybe the six county football team as well, nothings impossible

TOMASJ

Wicknight wrote: »

What? Will 98% of schools soon be run by the Catholic Church and non-Catholic children will be discriminated against in school places?

Perhaps Sinn Fein might fix the schools in the Republic before you starting convincing the people in the North that the N.I education system would be better off in a United Ireland.

Sorry, I cant think of a silly enough response for this post,and a silly post like this deserves a daft answer.

oscarBravo

Perhaps you could put a little more work into your own posts, then. How exactly are Sinn Féin going to fix education in Northern Ireland?

duggie-89

oscarBravo wrote: »

Perhaps you could put a little more work into your own posts, then. How exactly are Sinn Féin going to fix education in Northern Ireland?

well firstly i would like to point out that SF so far has by getting rid of the 11 plus which i know from experince was a total joke, and does more harm than good.

i would like to see more information on the eduction plan but so far i cant say but i like the idea that there should be some kind of selection process but one that is firstly more fairer and deals with the real issuses of a childs learning and not just how good they are at maths and english.

andrewh5

TOMASJ wrote: »

BETTER ROADS' your joking aren't you, if you drive anywhere west from Belfast you should know what a joke the roads are there

They are still a damn site better than most down here.

Fratton Fred

duggie-89 wrote: »

well firstly i would like to point out that SF so far has by getting rid of the 11 plus which i know from experince was a total joke, and does more harm than good.

i would like to see more information on the eduction plan but so far i cant say but i like the idea that there should be some kind of selection process but one that is firstly more fairer and deals with the real issuses of a childs learning and not just how good they are at maths and english.

That's good stuff, but what wll happen when SF achieve their goal of unification. Should they not start trying to extract education from the Churches in the South?

Telling people that unification is the way forward, but only if you want your children educated by a nun is probably not going to appeal to a lot of people.

It wasn't me!

duggie-89 wrote: »

well firstly i would like to point out that SF so far has by getting rid of the 11 plus which i know from experince was a total joke, and does more harm than good.

i would like to see more information on the eduction plan but so far i cant say but i like the idea that there should be some kind of selection process but one that is firstly more fairer and deals with the real issuses of a childs learning and not just how good they are at maths and english.

So what do you want from an educational agenda and how are Sinn Fein going to implement it? Also, to be honest, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're quite young, so perhaps while you have a personal opinion of the 11+, you might not have stepped back and gained an overall perspective of such things.

TOMASJ

oscarBravo wrote: »

Perhaps you could put a little more work into your own posts, then. How exactly are Sinn Féin going to fix education in Northern Ireland?

They have made a very good start by being on the verge of abolishing an exam called the 11plus, which as the name implys, is held when a child is 11 years old, If a child does not pass the exam they are at a disadvantage in that they have less of a choice as to what school they would attend, not to mention having the feelings of being a failure at such a young age, I view this 11plus exam as having been a disaster over the years, because if daddy was rich, you could be tutored to have a better chance of passing it. Now not being a member of Sinn Féin I am unable to tell you more, maybe you can email them, or Google the [SIZE=-1]Ard Fheis speeches that were held at the weekend, [/SIZE]But as I see it they have got the education in he North, of to a good start.

TOMASJ

andrewh5 wrote: »

They are still a damn site better than most down here.

Long since you have been up the North Andrew, I grant you it used to be the case but not any more

Pathfinder

duggie-89 wrote: »

well firstly i would like to point out that SF so far has by getting rid of the 11 plus which i know from experince was a total joke, and does more harm than good.

i would like to see more information on the eduction plan but so far i cant say but i like the idea that there should be some kind of selection process but one that is firstly more fairer and deals with the real issuses of a childs learning and not just how good they are at maths and english.

Actually the 11+ was a test so that the brightest working class kids could go to schools with other kids who were academic.

Scrapping it means the cleverist kids from working class backgrounds now don't get that chance.

In England that has meant working class social upward attainment has gone down.

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's good stuff, but what wll happen when SF achieve their goal of unification. Should they not start trying to extract education from the Churches in the South?

Telling people that unification is the way forward, but only if you want your children educated by a nun is probably not going to appeal to a lot of people.

Why is it the case Fred, that in the beloved 'mainland' parents of all religions are tripping over other to have their children educated by Nuns.

It wasn't me!

TOMASJ wrote: »

Why is it the case Fred, that in the beloved 'mainland' parents of all religions are tripping over other to have their children educated by Nuns.

It's more the case that the educational system is controlled by the church, and regardless of whether a parent feels a secular education is better for their children, that's what's available to them. The north has fantastic systems in place as a result of British union with regard to healthcare and education. The roads are debatable. Frankly, I've found driving in the north somewhat nicer, but perhaps I just like seeing speed limit signs in miles per hour. The Irish government doesn't have the resources to launch at northern Ireland to integrate it properly, and having a dangerously isolated area with a history of throwing the toys out of the pram would be bad for business, not to mention the fact that their services and administration where they are now are superior, so they wouldn't profit from the change. Realistically, there is no reason to unite the island, bar an irrational desire for a unity that some feel should have been achieved long ago (myself included, but we've been there already) and in pragmatic terms, to do so would screw everyone.

duggie-89

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's good stuff, but what wll happen when SF achieve their goal of unification. Should they not start trying to extract education from the Churches in the South?

Telling people that unification is the way forward, but only if you want your children educated by a nun is probably not going to appeal to a lot of people.

i agree but i cannot speak for all of SF, but i don not believe that the curch of all things should be in charge of something so vital as education.

there is a quote i have always remembered and that was from stalin who said
"give me your childern for 8 years and i will make them a bolvshik for life"

and that is my first imperrsion of the church and education and my experinces of it.

Fratton Fred

TOMASJ wrote: »

Why is it the case Fred, that in the beloved 'mainland' parents of all religions are tripping over other to have their children educated by Nuns.

are they? not where I was from they weren't, in fact, I don;t know of any schools run by Nuns within 20 miles of where I'm from, but then again a Catholic School is a good way of ensuring that at least some of your kid's classmates will speak English.

duggie-89

It wasn't me! wrote: »

So what do you want from an educational agenda and how are Sinn Fein going to implement it? Also, to be honest, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're quite young, so perhaps while you have a personal opinion of the 11+, you might not have stepped back and gained an overall perspective of such things.

well to be honest i do not wish to disclose my age but i can say i have been around for a few moons

i am sorry i dont know if i understand what you mean but i will try and explain the way i percieve it to be:

i would like for there to be an education system that firstly encourages local schools, which firstly is based upon the idea of a local community that develops learning. i also believe that alot of courses now a days are micky mouse courses, that dont really teach our childern alot about life, its all very much theory and althought its good to have some theory i believe that kids are split towards the fact that you either move towards a practical job ie trade or a theory job though university or something.

but on the topic of 11+ i want to see a system that firstly doesn't look at our childern and say ok you passed and you failed. i want to see a system that first strem lines childern on a range of their abilities so they can go to schools that "cater" for their talents. in a way its basicaly a more detailed look at kids and not just maths, english and science is it??? maybe a report from their teachers on their capablities. i dont think that the report should be a huge factor but i do think that it should play some what of a part.

but thats are just a few of my views, i haven't really tought it down to a tee but its just some food for thought.

well infact i have taken alot of time to look at the whole issue. and i dont understand why you said i should take a step back???? no harm but it did sound quite demening.

duggie-89

Pathfinder wrote: »

Actually the 11+ was a test so that the brightest working class kids could go to schools with other kids who were academic.

Scrapping it means the cleverist kids from working class backgrounds now don't get that chance.

In England that has meant working class social upward attainment has gone down.

path finder again your looking in the past and how it was set up, your not looking at its effects now. and firstly were not england and secondly the best educational system in the world has no exam that puts young kids thought hell to pass and if they dont they are deemed to a degree to be not as "talanted" and so spend most of their secondary school years right up to GCSE trying to get over the idea that they failed an exam that was to set out their path in life.

also what about the working class kids who are just as bright but cant afford to send their kids to private lessons so they get te best for their kids. compared to the richer kids who spend money to learn more to pass.

my sister tutors kids on maths for 11+, so i know what goes on in regards to the rich kids getting an advantage in regards to the 11+

It wasn't me!

Theory? Mickey Mouse courses? I don't get what you mean here. Can you give examples and explain why you think they shouldn't be taught?

When one is affiliated with a political party, one tends to end up swallowing and regurgitating a lot of doctrine, without actually examining one's own position; that was what I was questioning.

TOMASJ

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It's more the case that the educational system is controlled by the church, and regardless of whether a parent feels a secular education is better for their children, that's what's available to them. The north has fantastic systems in place as a result of British union with regard to healthcare and education. The roads are debatable. Frankly, I've found driving in the north somewhat nicer, but perhaps I just like seeing speed limit signs in miles per hour. The Irish government doesn't have the resources to launch at northern Ireland to integrate it properly, and having a dangerously isolated area with a history of throwing the toys out of the pram would be bad for business, not to mention the fact that their services and administration where they are now are superior, so they wouldn't profit from the change. Realistically, there is no reason to unite the island, bar an irrational desire for a unity that some feel should have been achieved long ago (myself included, but we've been there already) and in pragmatic terms, to do so would screw everyone.

If you dont like the educational system in the 26 county's why dont you do as your pal murphaph suggested

murphaph wrote: »

Then why don't they just move south down Mexico way? It's not far. A couple of hundred thousand poles have moved here from much further.

but this time go up mexico way, its not far, there are a lot of Poles and Portuguese's ect in the occupied 6 and you can have your secular education, I remember 10-15years back people saying than West Germany could not afford reunification with the East that has turned out to be crap as the new Germany is the richest and most successful country in the EU,A 32 county Ireland would after a few years be the envy of the rest of Europe, plus it would include a 32 county football team for fred

duggie-89

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It's more the case that the educational system is controlled by the church, and regardless of whether a parent feels a secular education is better for their children, that's what's available to them. The north has fantastic systems in place as a result of British union with regard to healthcare and education. The roads are debatable. Frankly, I've found driving in the north somewhat nicer, but perhaps I just like seeing speed limit signs in miles per hour. The Irish government doesn't have the resources to launch at northern Ireland to integrate it properly, and having a dangerously isolated area with a history of throwing the toys out of the pram would be bad for business, not to mention the fact that their services and administration where they are now are superior, so they wouldn't profit from the change. Realistically, there is no reason to unite the island, bar an irrational desire for a unity that some feel should have been achieved long ago (myself included, but we've been there already) and in pragmatic terms, to do so would screw everyone.

i disagree totaly, i am a republican and someone who believes that firstly britain has no right ot govern the north. i believe that local ministers can do a better job. all you have to do is to look at the fact that you said above that SF have taken a positive step in the north in regards to education. also conor murphy has done a good deal in ensuring that their is infrastructure in place for an all island economy.

i do believe that when it comes to the economy there is alot to be done but considering we are just emrging from a period of war, i think we can improve but we will only improve if we can compete on the same footing with the south ie corportaion tax which the uk gov is refusing to lower.

Fratton Fred

duggie-89 wrote: »

i disagree totaly, i am a republican and someone who believes that firstly britain has no right ot govern the north. i believe that local ministers can do a better job. all you have to do is to look at the fact that you said above that SF have taken a positive step in the north in regards to education. also conor murphy has done a good deal in ensuring that their is infrastructure in place for an all island economy.

i do believe that when it comes to the economy there is alot to be done but considering we are just emrging from a period of war, i think we can improve but we will only improve if we can compete on the same footing with the south ie corportaion tax which the uk gov is refusing to lower.

I'm sure SF are doing good things up there, but do you thnk they would be as successful doing it across all 32 counties?

Change may be a lot harder down here.

duggie-89

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Theory? Mickey Mouse courses? I don't get what you mean here. Can you give examples and explain why you think they shouldn't be taught?

When one is affiliated with a political party, one tends to end up swallowing and regurgitating a lot of doctrine, without actually examining one's own position; that was what I was questioning.

well there is a course called road traffic studies. it deals with well the laws of the road and a few aspects on cars but there is a gcse on that.

i mean that school subjects and focus is moving away from teaching the kid to getting a grade. i mean schools in my area try all to impress parents saying we have such a pass rate but that is because not that they teach the kids well but because they all do a GCSE which is well common knowledge and easy to pass so all the kids do itand get high grades.

well i know what you mean now, and i understand there are aafew types out there who sallow well lets just say they sallow to much but i have looked at my opinions thoughly on alot of key issuses and the majority of my key issuses i support SF stance on them.

It wasn't me!

duggie-89 wrote: »

well there is a course called road traffic studies. it deals with well the laws of the road and a few aspects on cars but there is a gcse on that.

i mean that school subjects and focus is moving away from teaching the kid to getting a grade. i mean schools in my area try all to impress parents saying we have such a pass rate but that is because not that they teach the kids well but because they all do a GCSE which is well common knowledge and easy to pass so all the kids do itand get high grades.

well i know what you mean now, and i understand there are aafew types out there who sallow well lets just say they sallow to much but i have looked at my opinions thoughly on alot of key issuses and the majority of my key issuses i support SF stance on them.

I would think a road traffic studies course would be a fantastic idea. How on earth can you call that a "mickey mouse" course? Surely anything to do with driving is as practical as they're ever going to get in school? One of my own gripes about education here is that it has no little module even for driving and road safety, which I feel would be an inestimable boon.

duggie-89

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm sure SF are doing good things up there, but do you thnk they would be as successful doing it across all 32 counties?

Change may be a lot harder down here.

well for that i cant say for sure, if i could well i would be using my talents else where lol

well i think that they would, but only as long as they stay true to themselves and their policies which i feel are community based because one thing i must say about SF in the north is that its pure community based and has alot of roots in communities across the 6 counties.

of course change is hard but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. and IMO i thing that anything will be better that FF well apart from FG but there virtual the same things these days IMO

can i just ask what are your opinions on SF and its policies, and do you support a political party???

It wasn't me!

Actually, interesting thought, but what happens after integration, where Sinn Fein will be woefully under-represented in the Dail? What good are they going to do anyone there?

duggie-89

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I would think a road traffic studies course would be a fantastic idea. How on earth can you call that a "mickey mouse" course? Surely anything to do with driving is as practical as they're ever going to get in school? One of my own gripes about education here is that it has no little module even for driving and road safety, which I feel would be an inestimable boon.

of course its a great idea that there should be something on road safety but the people who take these courses to my knowledge are the ones most likly to be out speeding ie the wannabe little boy racers.

but there are also courses like travel and tourism
again my first reaction was yes something that leads to an industry but again appentaly its go on google and find out something about tourism and hand it up.

i suppose another way to look at is that is not that there is to much thoery but to much meeting standards, ie geeting kids to pass a test and not to learn.

duggie-89

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Actually, interesting thought, but what happens after integration, where Sinn Fein will be woefully under-represented in the Dail? What good are they going to do anyone there?

do you mean seats wise??? well hopefully the plan is to increase our seats in the dail and in the north lol i thought that would be obvious lol

well i have also been thinking if a UI came about SF would have alot of say because firstly with the added population and seats the parties in the south ie FF would struggle to find a majority unless they go into power with unionist whom somehow i think will take a harsh line with FF because a UI will come about only if well FF get behind the idea aswell.

but i think the idea IMO is simply if a UI comes about it will be because SF has succesfully shown the advantages of such a move and so most voters will look favourably on them which will hopefully revert to more seats and so then more say.

i think your looking at the fact of now, while i look to the future and the work that is gona be needed to achieve it.

Fratton Fred

duggie-89 wrote: »

well for that i cant say for sure, if i could well i would be using my talents else where lol

well i think that they would, but only as long as they stay true to themselves and their policies which i feel are community based because one thing i must say about SF in the north is that its pure community based and has alot of roots in communities across the 6 counties.

of course change is hard but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. and IMO i thing that anything will be better that FF well apart from FG but there virtual the same things these days IMO

can i just ask what are your opinions on SF and its policies, and do you support a political party???

And ther I hink, you have it.

SF are good at looking after ther own community so they are popular,but what ahppens when the big question comes, do you want unification?

People presume that all SF voters would vote yes, but I'm not so sure.

I always used to vote liberal in local elections because the liberals were very good at running our council, but there is no way I would want a liberal running the country.

It wasn't me!

But with Sinn Fein a tiny and shrivelled party in the south, with the potential inclusion of the north, they're not going to be in any way in a controlling position. (Frankly if they are I'll eat my hat on the way to the airport for a five year trip)