Buying in the next 6 months. Smart or very stupid?

beeno67

mathie wrote: »

The real unfortunate thing is that the EA is getting in the way.
I'd bet the sellers would accept 370 but the EA will see it as 'Ah sure the buyer wouldn't go to 380 so in effect it's a null bid'

Shortsighted but sure not the only problem with EAs.

Why would the estate agent do this. If he is on 1.5% of sale price he gets €4550 now if he can sell it for €370000. Why risk loosing the sale and wasting loads of time to simply get €150 extra by selling for €380000

patrickolee

Gurgle wrote: »

Or you could pop a note in through the letterbox:

'I made an offer of €370k for your house, but your estate agent seems like a bit of a cowboy and I want to make sure you know about the offer'.

I tried that once, never heard anything back. Still didn't cost me anything... so..

Pa ElGrande

Strategy for Gazundering

• Make gazundering a permanent part of your home buying plan, until the Government reforms the law.
• Make sure the seller is part of a chain - he will be in the middle of completing a purchase on his next home and will be unable to refuse your gazunder.
• Have a backup plan in case the seller refuses your lower offer - the backup plan will probably mean renting or living with relatives for a few months while finding another property. This is only a small inconvenience though if you can save £10,000 on your house purchase. Some sellers will refuse to negotiate - so have a backup plan and be prepared to scuttle the deal if it doesn't go your way.
• If you don't want to keep renting, consider making an offer on 2 or 3 properties at the same time (but through different estate agents). Gazunder them all at the last minute, and you know at least one will give in to you.
• Keep your legal and bank fees to a minimum. Use a solicitor who offers a `no deal, no fee' scheme. Under most of these schemes, you only have to pay a few pounds for solicitors disbursements and local authority search fees.
• Use a solicitor who is happy to support your gazundering - a solicitor associated with the seller or real estate company will not be supportive. Don't tell the solicitor exactly what you have planned, but do ask them about the issue in a general sense. Most solicitors will do whatever their client (you) tells them to do.
• Make your initial offer for the property close to the asking price, so there will be little time wasted negotiating and the seller will feel confident with your offer.
• Surprise is part of the strategy, so don't give any clues what you plan to do.
• Choose a reasonable discount to ask for - typically between 5% and 20%
• Request the discount within 24 hours before the exchange of contracts, the later the better. It is best to do this after the seller has already exchanged contracts on the next house he is buying, so if you can find out the date that happens then you will have the upper hand. Alternatively, gazundering 4 - 6 hours before the exchange gives the seller time to try and push down the price of the next house he is buying.
• Tell the vendor or agent that `If you don't give me this last minute discount, I will not proceed to exchange contracts.'. You must see through with this threat. When you request the discount, make the agent/seller aware of your backup plan, so they know you are serious.
• They might try and `call your bluff' by letting the deal collapse - but don't be disappointed. There is a 30% chance they will call you the next day and cave in - after all, it's much easier to recover an aborted deal than to find a new buyer.

Obviously the price of a house is largely determined by how much the banks will lend the buyer and since the banks are not as generous with the loan terms compared with 18 months ago then prices are going to keep dropping.
I say, if you are going ahead and buying you have time to do your homework on an area and see if it will suit you long term, there is also no sense borrowing to the limit in the current market. The main constraint working against buyers (and ultimately sellers) is the ability of the Irish banks to raise funds in a detioriating credit market, and this situation is likely to get worse before it gets better.

mathie

beeno67 wrote: »

Why would the estate agent do this. If he is on 1.5% of sale price he gets €4550 now if he can sell it for €370000. Why risk loosing the sale and wasting loads of time to simply get €150 extra by selling for €380000

Maybe, just maybe to prop up the market?

Sure if they took every lowball offer then over time those 150 euros would add up.

And we all know that the poor EAs deserve the lifestyle they're accustomed to for all the hard work they do. :rolleyes:

PWEI

Gurgle wrote: »

Or you could pop a note in through the letterbox:

'I made an offer of €370k for your house, but your estate agent seems like a bit of a cowboy and I want to make sure you know about the offer'.

Last year I wanted to move and was going selling my own place.
I fell in love with a house but the agent was the biggest twat I ever
had the misfortune of dealing with. When I wanted a second
viewing he wouldn't give me one because I hadn't my own place
sold and he said there was enough people interested who were ready to
move there and then.Two weeks later I rang back and told him
I was sale agreed and wanted to make and offer.He then told me the
price had just gone up and my offer wouldn't meet the new asking
price.Anyway to cut a long story short I considered writing a letter and
dropping it in the owners letter box but in the end I just thought the house
wasn't worth all unnecessary hassle the agent caused. This time round
even if I wanted to write a letter to the owners it wouldn't do any good as the house is rented.

Gurgle

PWEI wrote: »

This time round
even if I wanted to write a letter to the owners it wouldn't do any good as the house is rented.

Thats a shame, because it just occurred to me that if the EA hadn't passed the offer on and the seller agreed to it, then the EA wouldn't be entitled to any fee.

That 1.5% is €5,550 that I personally think would be better deserved in the seller's pocket than the EA's driveway.

Trampas

Its great reading these threads as you I love reading all the expects opinions about buy and don't buy.

How many of these experts actually experts or are just saying what they think?

Pa ElGrande

Trampas wrote: »

Its great reading these threads as you I love reading all the expects opinions about buy and don't buy.

How many of these experts actually experts or are just saying what they think?

Boards is like a virtual pub if you like,and everyone fives has their own personal view or understanding which is entirely subjective. There was an interesting thread a few weeks ago on www.thepropertypin.com about who really is qualified to make predictions in a housing market. Interesting read.

johnnyskeleton

Trampas wrote: »

Its great reading these threads as you I love reading all the expects opinions about buy and don't buy.

How many of these experts actually experts or are just saying what they think?

The whole point about boards is that it is not about people pretending to be experts; it's about people voicing their opinions. If their opinion is based on good reasoning, evidence and logic, it will stand up to scrutiny and it provides food for thought.

By contrast, if someone came onto boards and said "I'm an expert and I think..." without supporting their reasons, you would have to be very brazen (or somewhat mad) to believe them.

So to answer what I think is your question, either everyone who posts here is an expert, or else no one is. It doesn't make a difference. To be honest, I'd rather listen to the reasoned opinions of an anonymous poster on boards than to the wishful thinking of an expert who has a vested interest in the property market.

seahorse

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

To be honest, I'd rather listen to the reasoned opinions of an anonymous poster on boards than to the wishful thinking of an expert who has a vested interest in the property market.

+ 1

Calina

Trampas wrote: »

Its great reading these threads as you I love reading all the expects opinions about buy and don't buy.

How many of these experts actually experts or are just saying what they think?

Depends on your definition of an expert.

Personally I'm an expert in not paying over the odds for unsuitable accommodation as I have been successfully not paying over the odds for unsuitable accommodation in Dublin for 8 years now. As such, I think my opinion counts.

____________________________

OP, I'd venture to say the market has changed its relationship to the asking price. Whereas it used to be the absolute minimum you could expect to pay, and indeed, was often 30% less than punters wound up paying, now it's ballpark maximum and often, offers up to 20-30% less are entertained by sellers depending on circumstances.

As such, the question of whether it's a good time or not to buy is more fluid and the key questions are no longer "am I going to be totally fleeced" or "how much money will I make on this in three years"

A lot depends on what you want from the property - I am in the process of setting up a checklist for myself. Small things: how far from work, how many bedrooms, GFCH or not, access to services I use regularly, access to emergency pint of milk shopping, parking, garden, all that. Can I live here for 10 years in the event of not being able to move for some reason. Does the accommodation suit my lifestyle.

Ultimately, for the most part, property is for living in and practical utility issues should be key. One of the killers for me is "can I put a piano/grand piano in here", but that's not everyone's problem, or course.

For me, the issue over the past 5 or 6 years is that lots of unsuitable accommodation was built and - this is the killer - lots of people bought it. Some as investment, of course, but some to live in and they are depending on being able to trade out of it at some point. If you don't see yourself in a trade loop and an offer significantly below asking is being entertained, the chances are you're up to 100KE better off on a given property over and above how it would have panned out a year and a half ago.

The common word on the street is that there is still a lot to play out here. The common word is probably not too far wrong. However it's unlikely that the story will play out the same everywhere - so it depends on where you are - and in any case, only you can put a price on the value you get out of a house. If peace of mind and not having to deal with landlords and the saga that is tenancy legislation in this country is of a reasonably high value to you and you are willing to pay for it, then it's up to you. If, on the other hand, you want to wait and see if you'd be 50K better off by waiting seven or eight months, then that's your call as well.

As a declaration of interest: 18 months ago I would have strongly recommended not buying at all. In fact, I would have recommended not buying for 4 of the last 5 years. Now I don't think it's so cut and dried and if I saw a house I liked and was now within range, I would seriously consider it.

Some people call this the bear trap - but again, I've always made a call on utility/financial value and as such my decision is generally based more on what the French call qualité/prix - ie am I getting what I want for the money. The only person who can answer that question for you is....you.

Loco

Calina wrote: »

my decision is generally based more on what the French call qualité/prix - ie am I getting what I want for the money. The only person who can answer that question for you is....you.

:rolleyes:

Calina

Loco wrote: »

:rolleyes:

have you actually got anything to add to this or what?

Loco

Calina wrote: »

have you actually got anything to add to this or what?

the only person who can answer that question for you is...me

rien

Gurgle

Trampas wrote: »

Its great reading these threads as you I love reading all the expects opinions about buy and don't buy.

How many of these experts actually experts or are just saying what they think?

Ah, a new arrival to the internet!

Welcome.

My name is Sam, I am the son of a banker in Zimbabwe, who squirreled away $30,000,000,000,000 in untraceable used US currency during the 1980s.

My father has passed away, but on his deathbed he told me the secret of how to claim this cash. All I need is an Irish contact to help, and I will happily split the money 50:50.

To start the process of claiming this money, I must make a trip to meet my father's old business associate in Ulan Batur in Mongolia, but unfortunately I do not have the $2,000 bus fare...

blah

15 trillion dollars! Think of how many investment properties I can buy with this!

On topic, I considered buying about 2 years ago, but I subscribed to emails from daft and watched in disbelief as the prices soared upwards. I'm hoping that but spending some time in London, saving up, and travelling around the world a bit, I'll be able to buy something for a reasonable price in 3 or 4 years. I'm 29 now, and I'd be happy to buy at 32/33.

The only thing that might concern me is difficulty getting a job, if the economy is in trouble.

penexpers

Gurgle wrote: »

Thats a shame, because it just occurred to me that if the EA hadn't passed the offer on and the seller agreed to it, then the EA wouldn't be entitled to any fee.

Wrong, the EA would still be entitled to his fee.

Gurgle

penexpers wrote: »

Wrong, the EA would still be entitled to his fee.

If he broke his contractual obligation to inform the seller of the offer, I think his entitlements would be a bit hard to claim.

penexpers

An EA is not obliged to pass on every offer. It's quite possible the vendor instructed the EA not to pass on offers on under €x.