Shooing a rifle at 45 degrees

If someone wants to PM me the math, I can set up a little program / excel sheet that will calculate this. I may even be able to factor in a graph! (I am an economics student, we love graphs!)

IRLConor

Much easier to use a pre-made calculator:

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html

It's complicated enough, but takes the aerodynamics of the bullet into account. (This is really important, the applied maths techniques tend to work on point masses with no air resistance which makes a big difference.) That calculator will even tell you the energy of the round at various distances.

ivanthehunter

V Bull wrote: »

Very bad idea, irresponsible and stupid firing any kind of rifle up into the air or up into branches not knowing where it will impact / stop. It doesnt matter if there are no houses behind your house for a mile or two, you must know your backstop.

Jimbo 22, obviously you have absolutely no training in the use and purpose of firearms.

Some of you out there may think that I'm over reacting. Remember a while ago when a person was shoot in Boyle in a car park by a "stray bullet".................and that poor young child in Northern Ireland playing in a school play ground who was killed by another "stray bullet"............Think on guys..........they were both shot by .22lr's.

Jimbo 22, I would suggest that you put your firearm into its gun-safe, lock it and leave it there until you join your local gun club and learn the basic safety, handling and use of a firearm.

God I get so annoyed at this total irresposible crap.........................

that kid in the north lived!!

Victor

Apparently the maximum range from artillery is about 44 degrees. I'm not sure of the discrepancy from 45 degrees, but I imagine air resistance and earth curvature have an effect.

Bond-007 wrote: »

Do you realise how dangerous it is shooting from inside a house?

Is this because someone might walk past the door / window?

ivanthehunter

thought i read it somewhere as 38.5 deg

foxshooter243

christ a guy asks a question and he is bombarded by experts- how fortunate we are to have such a huge an amount of ballistic experts available on hand............



:(:(:(:(

DeVore

I know the difference between centrefire and rimfire (I think!) but I'm confused as to two things:

1. Why is it bad to fire from inside a house (is it the lack of field of view?)?

2. Why is centrefire worse then rimfire in this situation?

DeV.

DeVore

foxshooter243 wrote: »

christ a guy asks a question and he is bombarded by experts- how fortunate we are to have such a huge an amount of ballistic experts available on hand............



:(:(:(:(

To be fair he asked the question "what do people think" in the OP... and he got told. Along with being soundly scolded there is a lot of useful information for the interested, in this thread...

DeV.

foxshooter243

yeah , he asked what people think..... he was looking for advice not to
be taken apart by people thinking hes foolhardy...:(

DeVore

I would have worded my responses differently then others here, that much is true. But I dont think I should protect him from the anger of people who think he is foolhardy.
I also dont think he has been "taken apart" unless his browser has some disturbing extensions I'm not aware of ... I'm guessing he'll live.

DeV.

foxshooter243

as he said " what people think" hes looking for advice:eek:

foxshooter243

DeVore wrote: »

I would have worded my responses differently then others here, that much is true. But I dont think I should protect him from the anger of people who think he is foolhardy.
I also dont think he has been "taken apart" unless his browser has some disturbing extensions I'm not aware of ... I'm guessing he'll live.

DeV.

funny, but i thought that a shooting forum was there to support shooters
or hunters or anyone trying to enter into any of the sports that this forum would encompass, but if someome cant ask for support or advice without the risk of being critcised whats the point.

DeVore

Others may want to heed your advice. I'm not actually here to make everyone hug each other, only to ensure that things remain somewhat civil and avoiding legal arguments.

I hardly think the OP is traumatised but as I said, I would word things differently.

DeV.

dresden8

May I suggest that if you want every post finished with "Hugs" you should head over to Personal Issues.

People who are doing something stupid that ends up with everybody else's rifle confiscated deserve to be torn a new one occasionally.

jimbo 22

Im no batestic expert as you have already gathered,

Critisim or scoulding as one one person put it is'nt a bad thing.

id rather get a rollicking from you guys than cause an accident heaven forbid

Ive learned a lot from this forum and will continue to do so.

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

I know the difference between centrefire and rimfire (I think!) but I'm confused as to two things:

1. Why is it bad to fire from inside a house (is it the lack of field of view?)?

2. Why is centrefire worse then rimfire in this situation?

DeV.

I would say field of vision is a big part of it. Its just not safe.

Centre fire is worse as they (in general) are nore powerful and therefore the range is further.

funny, but i thought that a shooting forum was there to support shooters
or hunters or anyone trying to enter into any of the sports that this forum would encompass, but if someome cant ask for support or advice without the risk of being critcised whats the point

He was doing something wrong/unsafe and was told so. What answer would you of given, the snap response was due to the seriousness of the issue,

Compared to other forums here on boards, the OP got away with a light tickle.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

2. Why is centrefire worse then rimfire in this situation?

DeV.

Centrefires are much bigger round with a lot more powder behind them.
I am sure that Rovi will be able to give a much better example but basically;

Rimfire are lighter rounds and have less of a charge behind them

.22lr will drop a rabbit
.177hmr (or something like that), smaller round but it packs a greater charge so it has a longer range. Good for foxes and the like.

After that you get in centrefires such as .223, .308 etc. These are serious rounds with big bullets and a lot of powder behind them. Used for deer etc.

A centrefire will generally travel further and pack more of a whallop then a rimfire, hence firing one into the air is worse then a .22 as it will go further and land harder.

Rovi

Did I hear someone call my name?


zaraba's pretty much nailed the important stuff, but here's the TechGeek version:

Using Sierra's [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Infinity Ballistics software with relevant data gives the following results-[/FONT]

(Note- I used the data here: http://extorian.co.uk/shooting/pellets.html and here: http://www.compasseco.com/blog/2007/...efficient.html to get weight and Ballistic Coefficient data for airgun pellets, so they're very much 'ballpark' figures, but should be close enough for this)

Airgun
.22 airgun pellet (20grain, 0.020BC) @ 800fps:
The maximum range of your Custom .22 airgun pellet 20gr at 800 Feet per Second is:
374.5 yards at an elevation angle of 26 degrees.

Rimfire
.22LR hollowpoint bullet (40grain, 0.110BC) @ 1300fps
The maximum range of your Custom .22LR hollowpoint bullet 40gr at 1300 Feet per Second is:
1602.4 yards at an elevation angle of 27 degrees.

Centrefire
Remington .172 dia. 17 Rem, 20 gr. AccuTip
The maximum range of your Remington .172 dia. 17 Rem, 20 gr. AccuTip at 4250 Feet per Second is:
3030.7 yards at an elevation angle of 26 degrees.

Remington .224 dia. 223 Rem, 50 gr. AccuTip
The maximum range of your Remington .224 dia. 223 Rem, 50 gr. AccuTip at 3300 Feet per Second is:
3455.1 yards at an elevation angle of 28 degrees.

Remington .224 dia. 220 Swift, 50 gr. V-Max
The maximum range of your Remington .224 dia. 220 Swift, 50 gr. V-Max at 3780 Feet per Second is:
3617.5 yards at an elevation angle of 27 degrees.

Remington .243 dia. 243 Win, 95 gr. AccuTip BT
The maximum range of your Remington .243 dia. 243 Win, 95 gr. AccuTip BT at 3120 Feet per Second is:
4556.3 yards at an elevation angle of 30 degrees.

Remington .308 dia. 308 Win, 165 gr. AccuTip BT
The maximum range of your Remington .308 dia. 308 Win, 165 gr. AccuTip BT at 2700 Feet per Second is:
5132.8 yards at an elevation angle of 31 degrees.

I'm very much open to correction on the above, but I think it's a decent enough illustration of the differences between the various projectiles.
According to the software, these are maximum ranges at optimum firing angles; obviously raising or lowering the firing angle will decrease the range.

Mellor

Geek, I answered it in a single sentance, speed is of the essence

bunny shooter

DeVore wrote: »

I know the difference between centrefire and rimfire (I think!) but I'm confused as to two things:

1. Why is it bad to fire from inside a house (is it the lack of field of view?)?

2. Why is centrefire worse then rimfire in this situation?

DeV.

1. As a rule you don't fire anywhere near a house or buildings, either at or from

2. Centrefire are more powerful and have a longer range capacity, larger bullets

Rovi

In the interests of of completeness (and ultra geekiness :rolleyes:), here are a couple of dedicated long range rounds:

Centrefire
BlackHills .338 dia., 338 Lapua, 300 gr. HPBT Match
The maximum range of your BlackHills .338 dia., 338 Lapua, 300 gr. HPBT Match at 2800 Feet per Second is:
7349.2 yards at an elevation angle of 32 degrees.

Barnes .510 dia. (50 BMG) 750 gr. LRS-Solid
The maximum range of your Barnes .510 dia. (50 BMG) 750 gr. LRS-Solid at 2700 Feet per Second is:
9040.4 yards at an elevation angle of 34 degrees.

9040 yards = 5.13 miles = 8266 meters :eek:

DeVore

Rovi. You have too much free time (and teh-beeg-brain-of-shootzing!)

Thanks, I was curious about that.

DeV.

Mellor

For interest, what about a swift Rovi?

Rovi

Mellor wrote: »

For interest, what about a swift Rovi?

It's already there, third one down in the Centrefire section.

Here it is again-
Remington .224 dia. 220 Swift, 50 gr. V-Max
The maximum range of your Remington .224 dia. 220 Swift, 50 gr. V-Max at 3780 Feet per Second is:
3617.5 yards at an elevation angle of 27 degrees.



I'll do a bit on energy levels at point of impact later, that's interesting stuff too.

bitemybanger

Hey Rovi
Would bullets not travell further at an angle of 45 degrees?
Max lift for max distance, any more than 45 would cause the bullet to slow quicker any less than 45 would hit the ground sooner
Saw somthing like this on Mythbusters. how far would a 22lr travell if fired at 45 degrees?
How do you work out angle>distance anyway?

Victor

bitemybanger wrote: »

Would bullets not travell further at an angle of 45 degrees?

In theory yes,and it would happen so on the Moon, but you have to take into account mass, air resistence, aerodynamics, terminal velocity, Earth curvature, etc., never mind you usual wind direction, temperature, humidity, etc.

Shooing a rifle at 45 degrees

You fire a weapon.
You shoot targets.
You shoo cats.

Mellor

I think (open to correction) that 45 degrees would be the furthest distance if the only forces were gravity and the intial force, but due to air resistance there is a third force slowing the bullet down.

The reason that air resistance doesn't affect all elevations the same is that flight pat h is longer for higher elevations. So the longer path of 45 degrees is slowed more than 35, so the max range is altered

Mellor

Victor wrote: »

In theory yes,and it would happen so on the Moon, but you have to take into account mass, air resistence, aerodynamics, terminal velocity, Earth curvature, etc., never mind you usual wind direction, temperature, humidity, etc.

Few more varibles there, but to be fair the first four are all the same really.
And earth curvature is not important over a mile or two, is fact due to land elevation it could be non existant, and the example above didnt consider it.
Nor did it consider wind temp or humidity, which again are linked to resistance


I'm just wondering, at what point did the don't shoot up thread become the how far could it go

Citizen_Erased

Jonty wrote: »

To the OP, even if you connected with your target, where did you think the bullet would go? And don't say it expanded inside the birdey.

It is definitly not safe to shoot to shoot up into tree with anything other than airguns or shotguns , i am not in anyway trying to deduct from that , i just want to put in that a standard hollow point subsonic .22lr shot at about 20 yards at a pigeon's body does not have sufficient momentum to pierce and in most cases even dent corregated tin . But please DO NOT FLAME ME , i am not trying to say it is safe to shoot at those angles , it clearly is not , im just adding some side input. oh and apologies if this is long out of date of this thread

It wasn't me!

You're saying a .22lr won't kill a pigeon at twenty yards?