VRT changes.. ***THE CATCH***

Anan1

MarkN wrote: »

See, the sceptic in me just says that sounds too good to be true.

But decreasing the price by a bit and throwing in extra equipment is not necessarily good. What would be good would be for equipment levels to remain unchanged and for the VRT saving to be passed on. I, for one, wouldn't pay €500 for BMW sat nav.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

It should also be noted that nothing appears decided and it isn't the sales guys who decide these things. We won't really know until we see price lists, and that won't be until mid march or so I am told.

+1. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the salesmen are telling the stories MarkN described so as to get a sale now, rather than be stuck with cars for another 5 months. Others who might be a bit more honest are telling people to wait and get cars that not only be much better value, but far more desirable to sell on later because of the much lower road tax. Sure didn't I see an add in the Irish Independent telling people to get a new 130 g/km Laguna 1.5 dCi NOW(by Bill Cullen Motors of all people) even though anyone who does any bit of research would know that 130 g/km means 16% VRT and €150 road tax in 5 months time. Basicvally they wanted you to get one now so you could be driving a green car for longer and why not start cleaning up our act now.

E92

Anan1 wrote: »

What would be good would be for equipment levels to remain unchanged and for the VRT saving to be passed on.

+1. That's what should (I mean should in the sense that that is what in the ideal world would happen, as opposed to what is meant to happen) happen, but we will wait and see.

I don't want satnav as standard if I were to buy a new car, I'd much rather one of those portable satnavs.

Biro

The whole extra's thing is a pure sham anyway. The amount some people pay for silly not worth while extras always baffles me.
Things like cruise control and trip computers are being pawned off as great to have extras on upper spec trims when in reality it probably costs a few cent to fit the cars with them at the factory.

niceirishfella

MarkN wrote: »

See, the sceptic in me just says that sounds too good to be true.

+1 Bigtime!

Like if a 520D is dropping by €8300 - i'd like to see a list of the luxuries I'm getting in the car (after july 1st) alledgedly as standard whilst the car still retails the same price. This list would need to show the free stuff I'm getting and how much they would cost if they were options.

I worked in the trade and saw it all.......and this crap does not surprise me at all. This is why i service my own cars at home, I sell privately and buy privately quality used vehicles - and never give my business to main dealers.
It's MASSIVE a ripp off...............in STEALTH!

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

I think 66,000 cars were imported from the UK last year,

Virtually all 2nd hand.. 66k needs to be viewed against all the cars, new and 2nd hand, that were sold here last year. I'd say that's at least half a million (over 100k of which are brand new).

E92

Biro wrote: »

Things like cruise control and trip computers are being pawned off as great to have extras on upper spec trims when in reality it probably costs a few cent to fit the cars with them at the factory.

The worst example of this was the E46 BMW 3 series, either the cruise control or the trip computer, it may even have been both, was wired up and all on all models, but to get the buttons for it/them to work you have to pay some silly figure(though it wouldn't surprise me if others were at this game too).

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Virtually all 2nd hand.. 66k needs to be viewed against all the cars, new and 2nd hand, that were sold here last year. I'd say that's at least half a million (over 100k of which are brand new).

I don't disagree with what you are saying but the fact that there are an ever increasing number of cars being imported means that there will be more supply in the market and therefore force down the price of used cars, which makes the SIMI's life harder, and force them to offer a better deal to us(at least in theory).

The Government will never prevent people from importing cars, because there is too much money to be made by the Government on it.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

I don't want satnav as standard if I were to buy a new car, I'd much rather one of those portable satnavs.

The portable ones are way more useful! You mostly use one outside the country anyway, and much good your thousand euro sat nav is sitting in the airport carpark in the dash of your car, when the €200 portable one could be in your carry-on, ready to go into the hire car!

Timmaay

MarkN wrote: »

BTW before any of the anti BMW brigade get on the wagon, this is not just a BMW thing but in fairness, a guy buying a 520D on the 30th June this year and waking up the next day to find his car has depreciated €10,000 during his 8 hour sleep can not happen - the arse would fall out of the market.

Well if he was stupid enough not to inform himself that he should wait a day he deserves to lose 10,000:p:p

But seriously though, its never that extreme, people will either wait until july or try and get a serious discount now, the people who chose to buy now accept the depreaction.

What'll this higher spec'd bmw here mean for importing a new diesel bmw from the uk post july? Irregardless of what bmw ireland do, I assume a basic spec Uk car will still offer a significate saving over todays prices here?

tvr

Fine regardless of what the dealers do, the Open Market Price of the cars will automaticall fall in July. So just import away and get the benefit of reduced VRT. Preferablty get a nice BMW, 6 months old demo with the 5 year free servicing. Then service it up north and show two fingers to the greedy bastards.

cancan

Haha - the irish consumer is such an idiot.

Funny how the options will have VRT added to them too. A win win for the SIMI and the gov.

Good to see bmw leading the charge as usual.

Watch the lemmings line up for this "great deal".....

If the other brands follow, it looks suspiciously like a cartel again. Oh when will we learn....

niceirishfella

ok, so we're not exactly sure if BMW will pull this stunt of not dropping prices YET and instead give us lots of crap upgrades we don't really need. But if they do, I'll be saying this to the boyz down in BMW -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssC77hapv0g

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

TheBazman

Anan1 wrote: »

But decreasing the price by a bit and throwing in extra equipment is not necessarily good. What would be good would be for equipment levels to remain unchanged and for the VRT saving to be passed on. I, for one, wouldn't pay €500 for BMW sat nav.

€500? I was speccing up one (3 series) recently and was including the ipod capability (on its own is around €500), however I said I wanted the idrive screen so I could see the ipod tracks etc. For this you had to spec Sat Nav. The cheapest option was the business sat nav for around €2500, however the salesman said that this one wasnt really worth having, that the professional sat nav at around €3500 really was the one to choose...€3500!!

Edit: on second reading I presume you meant you wouldnt "even" pay €500

Stevie Dakota

Jaysus lads, would you all calm down, it's only February, you'll all have heart attacks at this rate long before the middle of the year. Its all speculation at this point, and I'd no sooner believe BMW or any other company saying they are dropping prices any more than I would companies saying they are upping specifications.

MarkN

I have professional sat nav and idrive.. And while its good, it is not 3.5k good. Can't even watch TV on the bloody thing.

copacetic

just a note for anyone who hasn't seen the latest 'autoireland' magazine, not sure of the name but it is the one Permanent TSB put out to market their car loans.

The Managing Director of BMW in Ireland is quoted as saying the BMW 520d will fall in price by over 8k.

Seth Brundle

prospect wrote: »

BMW are robbing, money grabbing baxtards...

:rolleyes:
In all fairness, they aren't much different to any other company!

E92

copacetic wrote: »

The Managing Director of BMW in Ireland is quoted as saying the BMW 520d will fall in price by over 8k.

Not quite as much as it should be(though I will readily accept that my figures were using 100% OMSP ratyher than the more usual 92%), but that is proof that BMW are sticking to their word, and that the BMW salesman who said the spec of the cars will increase and the price will decrease was telling a fib(which I always suspected anyway as leaving the prices constant would reqiure several model variations, as some will go up and others will fall dramatically).

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Not quite as much as it should be(though I will readily accept that my figures were using 100% OMSP ratyher than the more usual 92%), but that is proof that BMW are sticking to their word, and that the BMW salesman who said the spec of the cars will increase and the price will decrease was telling a fib(which I always suspected anyway as leaving the prices constant would reqiure several model variations, as some will go up and others will fall dramatically).

i can't remember the exact figure E92 but think it said 8300 or something. will have a look at it again and post exactly what was said, he mentioned the reduction on the 320 also afaik.

unkel

How did I miss this thread until now :eek:

MarkN wrote: »

Spoke to someone selling a German brand with a blue and white diamond thingy on it in a circle, begins with B this morning... according to him and what they have been told at sales meetings etc

THE SPEC ON CARS WILL INCREASE, THE PRICE WILL NOT DECREASE.

He's not well informed. BMW Ireland have pledged on numerous occasions that they will pass on the savings. They have also hinted that prices might not be as low as can be "calculated" because specs are going up. Last official example I read in the glossy car mag produced annually by IL&P was that a base 320d will go down from €48k to €41k (or something like that iirc - I'll look it up tonight) and not the calculated €40k

BMW Ireland is the only distributor who has made this pledge afaik and it has set a great example. We shall see how they all behave after 01/07/2008. Mind, any distributor caught profiteering by trying to pocket the savings will be named and shamed here. That's a promise!

It BeeMee

Here's the text from the permanent TSB "Auto Ireland" magazine:

Sean Green, MD BMW Group Ireland
The vast majority of BMW and Mini models will decrease in price. To give a couple of examples, a 2.0 litre BMW 320 Diesel with emissions of 128g/km which is currently priced at €47,800 will see it's price fall to €40,762, while the price of a BMW 520D with CO2 emissions of 136g/km will fall by €8,190 (manual transmissions only).


on the same page:

Eddie Murphy, Chairman and MD of Ford Ireland
For example, one of our key volume sellers the Focus 1.6 litre petrol, will be reduced by €300 from July 1st

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

base 320d will go down from €48k to €41k (or something like that iirc - I'll look it up tonight) and not the calculated €40k

BMW Ireland is the only distributor who has made this pledge afaik and it has set a great example.

Unkel, take off the BMW coloured glasses! BMW has said they'll pocket a grand for themselves "as the specs will be going up" and you're singing their praises. I have no doubt the "specs" will be intangible, like a different cloth used in the seats, or something you can't even see.

They're setting an example alright: make a pledge, and boast at every opportunity you're making a pledge, and then only sorta stick to it. What's a grand or two anyway, shur no-one will mind.

There is no doubt in my mind that not a single car from any maker will come down by the calculated amount.

sesswhat

MarkN wrote: »

BTW before any of the anti BMW brigade get on the wagon, this is not just a BMW thing but in fairness, a guy buying a 520D on the 30th June this year and waking up the next day to find his car has depreciated €10,000 during his 8 hour sleep can not happen - the arse would fall out of the market.

Does that not happen anyway? Maybe not quite €10,000 but I'm sure some would pay this rather than be a second owner.

As for the VRT I hve made no comment on any of the speculation up to now beacause that is all it can be until the time comes.

unkel

It BeeMee wrote: »

Here's the text from the permanent TSB "Auto Ireland" magazine:

Sean Green, MD BMW Group Ireland
The vast majority of BMW and Mini models will decrease in price. To give a couple of examples, a 2.0 litre BMW 320 Diesel with emissions of 128g/km which is currently priced at €47,800 will see it's price fall to €40,762, while the price of a BMW 520D with CO2 emissions of 136g/km will fall by €8,190 (manual transmissions only).

Thanks It BeeMee. That's the one I was referring to!

JHMEG wrote: »

Unkel, take off the BMW coloured glasses!

Eh?

All distributors will be monitored here closely after 01/07/2008, including BMW. We won't just take their word for it. All I'm saying is that BMW seem to be the only one who quickly and officially committed to passing on the savings. Hopefully others will follow

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Unkel, take off the BMW coloured glasses! BMW has said they'll pocket a grand for themselves "as the specs will be going up" and you're singing their praises. I have no doubt the "specs" will be intangible, like a different cloth used in the seats, or something you can't even see.

They're setting an example alright: make a pledge, and boast at every opportunity you're making a pledge, and then only sorta stick to it. What's a grand or two anyway, shur no-one will mind.

There is no doubt in my mind that not a single car from any maker will come down by the calculated amount.

JHMEG, your obesssion with using any possible opportunity to bash BMW is clouding your judgement again here. At least BMW are passing on savings and are the only people to have said they will so far, in comparison I've heard it mentioned that Honda are seizing the opportunity to harmonise pre tax prices because ours are the lowest in the EU and therefore only passing on a small bit.

List price for the 320d €47,800. OMSP is presumed to be 92%(I don't know what it is exactly, but if Audi are using 92%, then I'm sure BMW do too).

So the OMSP is €43,976.

Change that to 16% VRT and you get €36,646, a decrease of €7,330.

So €47,800 - €7,330 is €40,470.

The car will sell for €40,762, so they are keeping just €292 for themselves, and of course BMW will have their annual price hike next month, so they are keeping absolutely nothing and sticking to their pledge as they said they would. Yet again your bias against BMW has caused your to put out statements that are completely inaccurate as we saw before when you insisted that there were no EfficientDynamics BMWs in the country even when I showed you one for sale.

I realise that I used the wrong formula in my Excel files but that was only because a) I didn't know OMSP was used at the time I put it up in the VRT sticky and b) even when I did find out about it I wanted confirmation that it really was 92%and of course I can't edit the files files so that it is done properly unfortunately.

But fear not there will be a proper one tonight with all the right formulas and they will all be in one big file;).

JHMEG

Are we to congratulate BMW for only pocketing €292 for themselves in this case? Which co-incidentally happens to be the amount of the annual price rise.

E92 your obsession with Honda is getting boring. I already said "there is no doubt in my mind that not a single car from any maker will come down by the calculated amount."

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

I already said "there is no doubt in my mind that not a single car from any maker will come down by the calculated amount."

This would be on it's own quite meritable, but when viewed with the preface "BMW has said they'll pocket a grand for themselves "as the specs will be going up" and you're singing their praises. I have no doubt the "specs" will be intangible, like a different cloth used in the seats, or something you can't even see.

They're setting an example alright: make a pledge, and boast at every opportunity you're making a pledge, and then only sorta stick to it. What's a grand or two anyway, shur no-one will mind." which is of course completely untrue, and you ruined what would have been a very valid point by having a sly incorrect jab at BMW(unsurprisingly yet again).

JHMEG wrote: »

E92 your obsession with Honda is getting boring.

The only one with an obsession with Honda here is you. I don't know where you got the idea about me going on about Honda from. I rarely talk about Honda, I certainly don't have a grudge against Honda(in stark contrast to you and BMW). I didn't realise that I'm been posting to a Honda worshiping only: no criticism of Honda allowed club though, if all it takes is for me to say "in comparison I've heard it mentioned that Honda are seizing the opportunity to harmonise pre tax prices because ours are the lowest in the EU and therefore only passing on a small bit" to get a Hondamentalist up in arms about something that only might happen.

JHMEG

E92, you keep bringing up Honda when I say something about bmw you don't like. Like in this thread. It's boring.

gar_29

beerbaron wrote: »

Its a Propellar

no, that's urban myth. blame that kid in the movie with sean connery....

from wikipedia (yea, not the safest of resources, but this one is true)

The circular blue and white BMW logo, which has not been altered throughout the company's history, does not in fact symbolise a spinning propeller according to a BMW spokesman (although the imagery did appear in post-WWI advertisements). The BMW roundel badge is believed to have been partially derived from the logo of its predecessor company Rapp Motorenwerke, while ultimately taking on the colours and checkers of the Bavarian flag.