VRT changes.. ***THE CATCH***

E92

Well lets face it - dealers know how to charge I know that:D.

But a lot of people are saying that they are going to blame the dealer if prices don't drop in July. This is making the 100% incorrect assumption that dealers set prices. They don't. The importer/distributer decides a recommended price, and the dealer is free to charge whatever they think is a price the car will sell for. So if prices don't drop its the importers fault, nobody elses! The dealers only sell the cars, they don't set the prices for new cars, anything else is their choice.

It's completely unfair to be blaming people who are completely not at fault!

MarkN

You gotta admit though Chris - dealers will try to make as much money as they can squeeze out of a car.

It took nearly two weeks of negotiating with Joe Duffy for my car, they were able to let it go for a full €5,000 less than they were two weeks previously. Dealers are no saints when it comes to making money off inexperienced customers.

what_car

MarkN wrote: »

Hate to be the bearer of bad news.........

Spoke to someone selling a German brand with a blue and white diamond thingy on it in a circle, begins with B this morning... according to him and what they have been told at sales meetings etc

THE SPEC ON CARS WILL INCREASE, THE PRICE WILL NOT DECREASE.

For example, a 520D will now have a multimedia pack, a bluetooth kit, light pack, possibly sat nav.. as standard. Whatever spec that brings the cost of the 'saving of 10k' back up to whatever a 520D costs NOW.

i spoke with a honda dealer re the new accord diesels, and he said
"the consensus is that the manufacturers will "re-align" their prices so as to not adversely affect the petrol equivalent" so me thinks from that that spec levels will increase, but price reductions wont be as big as some people think..

it could only happen in ireland..

i took the new a4 diesel for a drive, 2.0 , nicely specced out but the car i drove was €57k.. who in their right mind would spend that on an a4?

E92

MarkN wrote: »

You gotta admit though Chris - dealers will try to make as much money as they can squeeze out of a car.

It took nearly two weeks of negotiating with Joe Duffy for my car, they were able to let it go for a full €5,000 less than they were two weeks previously. Dealers are no saints when it comes to making money off inexperienced customers.

They don't run a charity service either. They're there to make money, what were you expecting;)?

E92

what_car wrote: »

i spoke with a honda dealer re the new accord diesels, and he said
"the consensus is that the manufacturers will "re-align" their prices so as to not adversely affect the petrol equivalent" so me thinks from that that spec levels will increase, but price reductions wont be as big as some people think..

it could only happen in ireland..

i took the new a4 diesel for a drive, 2.0 , nicely specced out but the car i drove was €57k.. who in their right mind would spend that on an a4?

BMW are the only people so far that are going to be passing on the VRT savings in full to the consumer. No price "re aligning", spec "re adjusting" or any of that crap. They're coming down, simple as that. A new 318d is yours from €38k roughly in July and then only €150 road tax a year to go with it.

Though what I read in Auto Ireland about what Eddie Murphy of Ford Ireland said implies that Ford will be following BMW's lead and passing on any VRT saving in full and no spec adjusting or price adjusting.

As for trying to keep petrols competitive, why would the manufacturers want to do that? They all want us to be driving diesels because developing diesel engines is a very expensive process and they want their return on investment i.e. more people buying these very expensive technologies.

-Chris-

E92 wrote: »

Well lets face it - dealers know how to charge I know that.

RRPs are set by the importers (as you correctly say), dealers have a margin that they strive to keep as much of.
In my training, my job as a salesperson was defined as "negotiating a price that the dealership is happy to sell at AND that the customer is happy to purchase at (that they consider value)"
People come in to buy cars and want a discount on them. They expect to haggle - some like it and some don't. Some manufacturers/dealers have tried "no haggle" pricing, but it's not prevalent. For most people, negotiating a good discount is a part of the process that makes them feel more comfortable with purchasing the car.
You wouldn't believe how often I try and bypass the haggling procedure and say to someone "here's my absolute best price - no fuss, no muss. Take it or leave it" and rather than taking or leaving it, they try and negotiate further. People want to "earn" the car.

MarkN wrote: »

You gotta admit though Chris - dealers will try to make as much money as they can squeeze out of a car.
It took nearly two weeks of negotiating with Joe Duffy for my car, they were able to let it go for a full €5,000 less than they were two weeks previously. Dealers are no saints when it comes to making money off inexperienced customers.

I don't know the particulars of your deal, but unless the car was in stock for ages or a model they particularly wanted to get rid of or if you were a particularly good customer (or have the potential to become one), you're not likely to get the maximum discount, only an acceptable discount.
Inexperienced customers will pay more no matter what they're buying. I used to be a very bad buyer, I always paid whatever I was asked to pay and normally either took the recommended product or refused to buy. I never haggled.
Now that I have some sales experience I can see the grey area that's there with regard to pricing, and that if you play your cards well you'll get more of that grey than the seller.
Noone, and I repeat, NOONE, has ever offered me a discount unrequested.

what_car wrote: »

i spoke with a honda dealer re the new accord diesels, and he said
"the consensus is that the manufacturers will "re-align" their prices so as to not adversely affect the petrol equivalent" so me thinks from that that spec levels will increase, but price reductions wont be as big as some people think..
it could only happen in ireland..

The pre-tax pricing has always been artifically low in Ireland due to our high tax regime. I wouldn't blame any manufacturer who tries to use this new tax system to harmonise prices.
I'll roundly condemn anyone who tries to profiteer from the new tax system though...

what_car wrote: »

i took the new a4 diesel for a drive, 2.0 , nicely specced out but the car i drove was €57k.. who in their right mind would spend that on an a4?

They start from E45,000. Whether you think this is a fair price for the spec is up to you (probably not if you're a Honda driver - they get everything included as standard;)).

E92

AudiChris wrote: »

RRPs are set by the importers (as you correctly say), dealers have a margin that they strive to keep as much of.
In my training, my job as a salesperson was defined as "negotiating a price that the dealership is happy to sell at AND that the customer is happy to purchase at (that they consider value)"
People come in to buy cars and want a discount on them. They expect to haggle - some like it and some don't. Some manufacturers/dealers have tried "no haggle" pricing, but it's not prevalent. For most people, negotiating a good discount is a part of the process that makes them feel more comfortable with purchasing the car.
You wouldn't believe how often I try and bypass the haggling procedure and say to someone "here's my absolute best price - no fuss, no muss. Take it or leave it" and rather than taking or leaving it, they try and negotiate further. People want to "earn" the car.

AudiChris, look at my whole post. You will see that on the whole I was defending dealers re VRT pricing cause a lot of people think that dealers decide the price when as I explained in my post they don't really.

My smart comment about them knowing to charge is about when you go to get your chariot serviced though;). I my limited experience, I have found that dealer servicing is very expensive in the city, in the country it is a lot more reasonable, this works fine if you have a volume seller like Toyota or Ford but if you have a premium marque like Volvo or BMW you don't(in Cork you have one dealer for both the city and county for Merc and Volvo for example, and we only recently got a second BMW dealer, but they're also city based(Kearys)).

-Chris-

E92 wrote: »

AudiChris, look at my whole post. You will see that on the whole I was defending dealers re VRT pricing cause a lot of people think that dealers decide the price when as I explained in my post they don't really.

My smart comment about them knowing to charge is about when you go to get your chariot serviced though;). I my limited experience, I have found that dealer servicing is very expensive in the city, in the country it is a lot more reasonable, this works fine if you have a volume seller like Toyota or Ford but if you have a premium marque like Volvo or BMW you don't(in Cork you have one dealer for both the city and county for Merc and Volvo for example, and we only recently got a second BMW dealer, but they're also city based(Kearys)).

Sorry E92, I know you understand about the pricing, I was trying to agree with you and build on your point. It was more to show my role (or my dealer's role) in the pricing than anything else...

I don't know about servicing costs much, suffice it to say that I'm glad I don't have to pay for services . When I drove a junker, I serviced it myself. To get into "proper" cars I had to wait till I got a company car, which I don't have to pay for servicing on.

Padraig Mor

what_car wrote: »

i spoke with a honda dealer re the new accord diesels, and he said
"the consensus is that the manufacturers will "re-align" their prices so as to not adversely affect the petrol equivalent" so me thinks from that that spec levels will increase, but price reductions wont be as big as some people think..
?

I was also talking to a Honda dealer re Accords yesterday. He said the Exec diesel (current model) would be coming down by about €3k in July, even though I make the decrease due to VRT €5k. He also said that the new model would be priced at €5-6k above the *current* price, i.e. an effective increase of the bones of €10k, but - hey! - you'll get satnav and Bluetooth! Oh, and the new one may not be coming until next Jan. Now, some might say that he was talking bull in order to make a sale now.....

As an aside, I must say I was rather surprised that I was the one telling the head dealer about the specifics of the car and the price he was meant to be charging for it! Shouldn't it be the other way round???!!!

MarkN

AudiChris wrote: »

I don't know the particulars of your deal,

It was a 07 demo that they didn't want sitting there in Jan 08 and it is a 3.0L so there'd be a limited market for them.

So on the basis of that, I haggled.

But my point is, they could've made a further 5 grand solid profit if I had've done what most do and say ok, I'll take it.

That could be where a lot of people get the 'stealer' slang from.

-Chris-

MarkN wrote: »

It was a 07 demo that they didn't want sitting there in Jan 08 and it is a 3.0L so there'd be a limited market for them.

So on the basis of that, I haggled.

But my point is, they could've made a further 5 grand solid profit if I had've done what most do and say ok, I'll take it.

That could be where a lot of people get the 'stealer' slang from.

That sounds like a fair deal and you earned that good deal by working them hard, although I think you'll be hard pushed to find anyone who says "ok, I'll take it".

That being said, if you do know some people prone to buying things for list price, PM me their details :D:D.

flanzer

Sean Green, MD BMW Group Ireland wrote:

The vast majority of BMW and Mini models will decrease in price. To give a couple of examples, a 2.0 litre BMW 320 Diesel with emissions of 128g/km which is currently priced at €47,800 will see it's price fall to €40,762, while the price of a BMW 520D with CO2 emissions of 136g/km will fall by €8,190 (manual transmissions only).

I'm confused here. According to bmw.ie, the 320D (manual) has emmissions of 153 g/km and the 520D (manual) has emmissions of 158 g/km.

@ E92, where are you and Sean Green getting your figures from? I was looking at importing somethng diesel from the UK in July and if your figures are correct, I won't be hesitating in importing a beemer!

E92

flanzer wrote: »

I'm confused here. According to bmw.ie, the 320D (manual) has emmissions of 153 g/km and the 520D (manual) has emmissions of 158 g/km.

@ E92, where are you and Sean Green getting your figures from? I was looking at importing somethng diesel from the UK in July and if your figures are correct, I won't be hesitating in importing a beemer!

The eejits that run BMW's website haven't updated the technical data section yet(the 5 series got a nice CO2 cut last April when the car got it's facelift and they still have the old CO2 data for that), if you go to the car configurator, the correct data is all there, or BMW UK;).

Its only EfficientDynamics models that have the lovely low CO2 emissions, they can be distinguished visually by chrome exhaust pipes in the case of the 4 cylinder 3 series(i.e. 316i, 318i, 320i, 318d, 320d), 116i and 520d, the non EfficientDynamics of these have a dark colour exhaust pipe, I don't know about the 6 cylinder 3 series(any other 3 series), but any other 5 series has ED if it is the facelift model(introduced last April), any facelift 1 series(introduced in March 07) bar the 116i, and any facelifted 6 series(introduced in October 07), and any current model X5 also has ED.

what_car

E92 wrote: »

BMW are the only people so far that are going to be passing on the VRT savings in full to the consumer. No price "re aligning", spec "re adjusting" or any of that crap. They're coming down, simple as that. A new 318d is yours from €38k roughly in July and then only €150 road tax a year to go with it.

Though what I read in Auto Ireland about what Eddie Murphy of Ford Ireland said implies that Ford will be following BMW's lead and passing on any VRT saving in full and no spec adjusting or price adjusting.

As for trying to keep petrols competitive, why would the manufacturers want to do that? They all want us to be driving diesels because developing diesel engines is a very expensive process and they want their return on investment i.e. more people buying these very expensive technologies.

and the 318D is still over priced at that:D an expensive mitsubishi carisma look alike!
there are some people out there that would only ever consider driving a petrol engined car ...

E92

what_car wrote: »

and the 318D is still over priced at that:D an expensive mitsubishi carisma look alike!
there are some people out there that would only ever consider driving a petrol engined car ...

Just cause it looks like a Carisma from the back(they made a balls of the arse of it as they do with almost every BMW in the known history of BMW) doesn't mean it's got anything to do with a Carisma:D!

A petrol engined 3 series with ED offers CO2 levels as low and in several cases lower CO2 than any non BMW diesel of similar engine size, and they will still cost less than the diesels(for the 4 pots anyway!).

There are oodles of other great cars out there, the family saloon segment is getting a whole range of new models very soon, new C5, Accord, Avensis, Insignia all coming in the next year, and we've just had the new 6 and Mondeo, so all in all you can't go wrong.

New Accord looks super.

Zonda999

Dont forget the new skoda superb and vw passat coupe(basically a merc cls with a vw grille)

flanzer

E92 wrote: »

The eejits that run BMW's website haven't updated the technical data section yet

Ah, thanks E92. That clears that one up so!