Moniterd Alarm Needed For Licence ?

ranger4

Hello, I own a licenced 22 and a blaser 308, When seeking licence for a new 243 barrel for my blaser i was contacted by my local crime prevention officer inquiring about getting a moniterd alarm system installed before my new licence would be granted, is this a new regulation as i was previously inspected when i recieved my 308 and was told that my security was fine, also if i refuse to get new alarm (extra 1k with monitering) could my new application be stopped and could my licence renewell certs be stopped, seems like they are trying to make firearms opwnership more and more difficult plus very expensive, If the Local super was happy with security would this be enough for gun owership without the costly moniterd alarm system.

cavan shooter

Thats odd, you have two firearms and everything is ok but now your looking for a barrell it has to be a monitored alarm. Go down and speak to him, and look for reasons. I have heard about this type of thing in other districts

Our man in Havana

Seems like yet another case of the Gardaí making up the law as they go along.

ranger4

Bond-007 wrote: »

Seems like yet another case of the Gardaí making up the law as they go along.

Felt Like telling them where to stick their alarm but im kinda between a rock and a hard place with this one, Present cpo who rang me was told by me that my security was inspected couple of years ago by then cpo and found ok but is now insisting on expensive moniterd system, have come across this before in midlands area, wonder can they prospone new cert for barrel if i doint go down the moniterd alarm route.
:mad:

Our man in Havana

They could simply refuse you because you won't get the alarm. Is this Laois/Offaly?

bunny shooter

Being introduced into legislation or already there Supers discretion on security AFAIK

Genghiz Cohen

Yeah it's up to the super IIRC, he could demand you show up in a dress if he wanted.

foxshooter243

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Yeah it's up to the super IIRC, he could demand you show up in a dress if he wanted.

well if you feel you should show up in a dress then go ahead...cos by my
reckoning if your that big an arse**** then our case is lost..........:mad::mad::mad:

tiny-nioclas

if your a member of the NARGC get onto them and tell them your story, they will set the story straight and in no certain words tell the cops to stuff their alarm you dont have to have one.

TargetWidow

Another example of the Supernintendos getting carried away trying to enforce laws that have not yet come into force. I agree with Nicholas here. If you are a longstanding paid up member of the NARGC get in touch with the BOSS MAN who will give your local supernintendo a good earbending down the phone.
Also try to get any conditions laid down on licences in writing. They are not nearly so brave when it comes to this and you are entitled to it according to the Garda Code.;)

ranger4

TargetWidow wrote: »

Another example of the Supernintendos getting carried away trying to enforce laws that have not yet come into force. I agree with Nicholas here. If you are a longstanding paid up member of the NARGC get in touch with the BOSS MAN who will give your local supernintendo a good earbending down the phone.
Also try to get any conditions laid down on licences in writing. They are not nearly so brave when it comes to this and you are entitled to it according to the Garda Code.;)

Thanks for info guys.

quackquackBOOM

this happened me when i wanted to go for a 22/250 yet i have 4 guns
2 shotguns
2 rifles
i think it is ridiculous i was told i could get a 220 swift without a monitored alarm yet this is a faster flatter round with roughly the exact same capabilities
puzzles the mind

rrpc

The whole point of having a monitored alarm is so that the Gardai can respond to an activation. You should politely ask them what their response time will be to an activation at your home.

Request it in writing.

Genghiz Cohen

foxshooter243 wrote: »

well if you feel you should show up in a dress then go ahead...cos by my
reckoning if your that big an arse**** then our case is lost..........:mad::mad::mad:

Nice, you stumbled around my point with all the grace of a drunk eating his own vomit.
My actual point was that a Super can ask you for any number of things before he/she will give you a license. As said above the NARGC boss can quieten them, but if you don't have that luxury and don't want to take them to court, then you are sunk.

foxshooter243

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Nice, you stumbled around my point with all the grace of a drunk eating his own vomit.
My actual point was that a Super can ask you for any number of things before he/she will give you a license. As said above the NARGC boss can quieten them, but if you don't have that luxury and don't want to take them to court, then you are sunk.

my point is that if everyone adopts a defeatist attitude when dealing with superintendants then that will lead to an erosion in fair play and even handedness-every person that comes up against a brickwall needs to fight their corner and not leave it to the "boss" to take up their case, if I were to have done everything that my local gardai wanted over the years I would have taken up embroidery instead of shooting/hunting.:rolleyes:

by the way we dont eat our own vomit in my part of the country that
tradition must belong to your area:eek:

Sparks

Defeatist attitude? Seems to me that to have a defeatist attitude, you have to have a defeat; and to have a defeat, you have to have a fight in the first place. Given that the Superintendent's authority is granted through statute law, and is backed by case law from cases we brought , saying there's a fight is like saying that the grass puts up a valiant struggle against the cow. And I think we've had more than enough of that kind of daft thinking over the past few decades. Or haven't you read the current Firearms Act? I mean, actually sat down and read it through?

Genghiz Cohen

foxshooter243 wrote: »

if I were to have done everything that my local gardai wanted over the years I would have taken up embroidery instead of shooting/hunting.:rolleyes:

Then I'm sure you could enlighten us as to how you convince a Super to give you a license he/she doesn't want to hand out.

foxshooter243 wrote: »

by the way we dont eat our own vomit in my part of the country that
tradition must belong to your area:eek:

That was a simile, a comparison, I never said anyone actually ate their vomit.

I'm done with the off-topicness now, the OP got his answer the thread is done.

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

Defeatist attitude? Seems to me that to have a defeatist attitude, you have to have a defeat; and to have a defeat, you have to have a fight in the first place. Given that the Superintendent's authority is granted through statute law, and is backed by case law from cases we brought , saying there's a fight is like saying that the grass puts up a valiant struggle against the cow. And I think we've had more than enough of that kind of daft thinking over the past few decades. Or haven't you read the current Firearms Act? I mean, actually sat down and read it through?

are you trying to say that every person that has walked into a garda station has each had the benefit of statute laws applied evenly when looking to licence firearms cos if you are you must be on a different planet-I could list countless examples of garda superintendants and fao s
interpreting the law as they seen fit ,thanfully most of the people involved
in my area got advice and stood their ground until the law was applied
correctly/some didnt and walked away even though they fulfilled the
requirements of the act....if everything was so hunky dory why was there the need for cases to be brought to the courts.

quackquackBOOM

what if you had one of these.
you could get one of the numbers to ring the garda barracks http://www.home-security-action.co.uk/yale-wireless-alarm.html

Our man in Havana

quackquackBOOM wrote: »

what if you had one of these.
you could get one of the numbers to ring the garda barracks http://www.home-security-action.co.uk/yale-wireless-alarm.html

Would such a system be acceptable?

What sort of money do they cost?

fat-tony

quackquackBOOM wrote: »

what if you had one of these.
you could get one of the numbers to ring the garda barracks http://www.home-security-action.co.uk/yale-wireless-alarm.html

Sorry pal, no do-it-yourself solutions.... you have to have your alarm connected to an alarm monitoring centre, who call the Gardai in the event of an alarm activation.

fishdog

you have to have your alarm connected to an alarm monitoring centre

Sorry but you are wrong. This is not always the case. It depends on where you live.

ranger4

fishdog wrote: »

Sorry but you are wrong. This is not always the case. It depends on where you live.

Does it state anywhere that a moniterd alarm is required for a firearms Licence, Just seems Like rules are being made up to make obtaining a cert more and more difficult.

rrpc

ranger4 wrote: »

Does it state anywhere that a moniterd alarm is required for a firearms Licence, Just seems Like rules are being made up to make obtaining a cert more and more difficult.

The firearms act doesn't specifically mention monitored alarms but:

Section 4(2)(d)
has provided secure accommodation for the firearm and ammunition at the place where it is to be kept,

and

Section 4(5)
The Minister, in consultation with the Commissioner, may by regulations provide for minimum standards to be complied with by holders of firearm certificates in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for their firearms.

This hasn't been commenced yet, but it will be soon so there's no point in trying to fight it. If you want to fight a monitored alarm, the best method is to request in writing what response time they are guaranteeing for an activation. If it's not quick enough, then a monitored alarm is useless.

fishdog

What you have to do is keep your super happy. This will mean different things in different areas. I know many people that had to have an alarm that phones a monitoring station (that in turn rings them) to get a particular licence. Equally I know many people that have got a licences for say a .308 or pistol (or whatever they want) that have an alarm that would ring them directly and not a monitoring station (in my opinion middleman). It all depends on the super.

Sparks

foxshooter243 wrote: »

are you trying to say that every person that has walked into a garda station has each had the benefit of statute laws applied evenly when looking to licence firearms

Don't be daft.

thanfully most of the people involved
in my area got advice and stood their ground until the law was applied
correctly

Yes, but you're missing the important distinction there.
They didn't walk into the garda station looking for a fight. They didn't take court cases just to be contrary. They dealt with a problem after it arose. And they did so through the law. What you're talking about is looking at the local super as an enemy before you've even met the man, and if we've learned one thing over the years, it's that the majority of the superintendents are not anti-shooter. There are a handful, and if we sat down we could probably list them and it'd be a short list compared to the overall total. And in those cases where there's blatent law-breaking on their part, then yes, something must be done.

But you're saying that if the Super demands a monitored alarm, we should tell him to get stuffed - but he's perfectly legally entitled to demand a monitored alarm. You'd lose that case before you got going - and in the process, you would damage the overall case for all shooters everywhere. Because afterwards, we wouldn't have a 100% success rate in the courts.

foxshooter243

;)

Sparks wrote: »

Don't be daft.

Yes, but you're missing the important distinction there.
They didn't walk into the garda station looking for a fight. They didn't take court cases just to be contrary. They dealt with a problem after it arose. And they did so through the law. What you're talking about is looking at the local super as an enemy before you've even met the man, and if we've learned one thing over the years, it's that the majority of the superintendents are not anti-shooter. There are a handful, and if we sat down we could probably list them and it'd be a short list compared to the overall total. And in those cases where there's blatent law-breaking on their part, then yes, something must be done.

But you're saying that if the Super demands a monitored alarm, we should tell him to get stuffed - but he's perfectly legally entitled to demand a monitored alarm. You'd lose that case before you got going - and in the process, you would damage the overall case for all shooters everywhere. Because afterwards, we wouldn't have a 100% success rate in the courts.

ok see your point

Mellor

What about wircom phonewatch or similar alarms?
Does it have to be a dedicated safe alarm? If someone had phonewatch or similar it would be easy to set up a sensor on the safe and door that arms along with the retst of the house. If it was set a dedicated zone the company could deal with it.

Dr_Teeth

What companies in Ireland offer this kind of service, apart from Eircom? I'll need to get one in shortly, I don't really want to break the bank though!

rrpc

Dr_Teeth wrote: »

What companies in Ireland offer this kind of service, apart from Eircom? I'll need to get one in shortly, I don't really want to break the bank though!

There's plenty around that do monitoring. A look through the golden pages should get you any amount.

fat-tony

Indeed! Eircom is just one of many (several?) monitoring companies. Contact your local friendly alarm installer and they will tell you who monitors alarms. This whole area of alarm installation and monitoring is subject to a great deal of statutory surveillance! If you're stuck I can pm you with details.