irish shooters digest

TrapperJohn

I think the whole shooting community agrees that the Digest provides a poor platform for servicing the needs of the Irish shooter. I cant blame the Digest completely they have a magazine to fill each issue and a page does not refuse ink no matter how poorly written or informed the writer is.

I would love to see a dedicated target shooting magazine, no dogs, no falcons, no nargc. But I doubt the financial wisdom of that.

Perhaps we need an online magazine, subscription based? Any thoughts on this?

Sparks

TrapperJohn wrote: »

Perhaps we need an online magazine, subscription based? Any thoughts on this?

I've always wondered why anyone would pay for what they could read for free right here or on the various club/NGB websites myself. I can see how a print magazine could survive - taking a laptop into the bathroom with you in lieu of a newspaper is just downright off, and there are still a lot of folks who just don't like computers at all - but frankly, even that's a marginal case these days, especially with the quality of articles we tend to see in the ISD. Which is a shame since the ICPSA stuff in there isn't half bad and neither are some of the hunting articles, but the rotten apples drag it so far down that we gave up writing the NTSA column for it several years ago because it was doing nothing positive for us, we kept getting lumped in with the other rifle stuff in there, bayonets and all.

In fact, I don't remember being told of a good article in the Digest during the past year or three. It's always the case that someone emails or rings me to say "Have you read what that eejit is after writing this time?" or words to that effect.

And can someone please tell the lads in Ardee that we'll still buy their stuff even if they don't put the scantily-clad girls on the cover of the ISD? It'd be nice for the parents of potential junior shooters who go to do some research on the sport in Easons to find photos of shooters adorning the cover of the shooting magazines they find instead of soft porn. (Not to mention that I've seen shooters drool far more over the photos of the latest pistol or rifle or shotgun to hit the shelves than over the kind of poster that Ardee - and Laporte if the idiots in the ISSF News are reading, for feck's sake :rolleyes: - are showing). And if the ISD wanted to take the shooting community back, one way to do it would be to put more photos of the better shooters or competitions on the cover. Why not see if Ardee would be willing to pay a top shooter like Derek Burnett or Dave Malone a few quid to pose with the latest Beretta shotgun to come out instead of some blonde model whose future is all in front of her? That way, Ardee get their stuff advertised, ISD gets their ad, and they both support the community that buys their product. Win-win-win all round, that way.

MortgageMan

Hi Guys

I thought that attacking people in posts was banned ?

I personally feel that this post is an attack on an individual, I have reported it to the mods for their opinion.

Sparks

"that eejit" didn't refer to a specific person MM. The rest of the comments refer to a body of work or a product, both of which are fair game for comment.

TrapperJohn

MortgageMan wrote: »

I personally feel that this post is an attack on an individual, I have reported it to the mods for their opinion.

I don't see any attack here in this thread, just criticism of a magazine and its columnists. This happens every day in the letters section of every national newspaper and is an established means of reflecting agreement or disagreement with that columnists article or opinions.

By writing an article in a magazine you open yourself to criticism, it goes with the territory.

pullandbang

Just a little off the thread topic - there is an ad in the classifieds if ISD (July) "Wanted-Unwanted gundogs - 087 ######"

Anyone know anything about these or had any dealings with them?
I'm curious to know why anyone would want an unwanted gundog.

Bog Man

Just on the general topic of magazines etc.
If I buy a mag on shooting I want to see (A) Reviews of new products, (B) Informative articles on ammo, ballistics etc (C) News that effects me as an ordinary shooter -Licensing changes etc wtf is the restricted list etc. (D) An event list for the coming 3 months

I am not really interested in who won a turkey at a field day in the backarse of nowhere. There have been some mags that started out well but descended to the level of a social column.

Sparks - Here is an idea for you. Why not have a sticky for gun reviews written by those who have bought them and used them. I think that some of the reviews in the UK mags are subject to commercial pressure. When did you last see a review of a gun that said it was rubbish - even though there are a few candidates out there that I can think of.

Sparks

Bog Man wrote: »

When did you last see a review of a gun that said it was rubbish - even though there are a few candidates out there that I can think of.

The last time we had a thread in here on the 10/22

We're always trying to keep the number of stickies down (or we'd have nothing but stickies on the first page), but there's no reason not to post reviews anyway - and if we get enough, I don't see why we couldn't put up a locked sticky with a single post that linked to all the threads, sortof like an index. But lets get the content up first.

trapmando

I dont think u'd get anyone that would read the ISD cover to cover. I only read the ICPSA/shotgun shooting section, the father in law only reads the rifles section...

Them Cal articles go on and on and on...... they take up nearly a quater of the magazine. I think they have run outta of ideas and it's time to kick them to touch, big time!

I buy Clay Shooting, that's a good magazine (for me), regular shoot reports, a good gun review every month (although like soemone said I have never seen them giving out about anything apart from a palm swell being too big!!!!), they interview their top shooters, news from around the regions/grounds. Anyone else think it's good? imagine if it was based on the Irish clay shooting scene! I def read it from cover to cover.

ISD sell about 30,000 copies a month, would an Irish Clay shooting magazine be viable? I'm sure there is a few lads in each disipline that would be more than happy to report from shoots free of charge til it got off the ground anyway!

Bog Man

Yep, I have tried a 10/22 & it was utterly shyte! Even the mag fell apart!

But seriously, I think that reviewers for some of the magazines can come under pressure when the supplier also advertises in the mag. This is almost certainly the case with a UK based airgun mag I used to buy. The BSA lightning was described as a fine rifle of exceptional accuracy. I bought the gun and found it shoddily built & hopelessly inaccurate.
The Weihrauch on the other hand leaves me speachless with what it can do and how good it looks.

Darr

Sparks/Bogman ,
When I finally get my license for my 10/22 (whenever the slow glacial like progression moves on) I will endeavor to write a review on the rifle .. well before I swap out the stock, the mags, the barrel, the release, the pins, the trigger .. but that’s all I’m changing .
Also seen as this is my first time owning a rifle it would be interesting to see if I can get someone with more experience (which would be 95% of the guys at the club) to maybe have a go and write a few lines .

We shall see ....
Darr

Grizzly 45

Having seen and written for a couple of mags [now long gone]back in dem oul days of the 80s when we had to write articles with quills and self made ink.:eek:.I am actually amazed that ISD has survived this long.
There are some unique problems that you have with writing or running a mag here in Ireland especially one that is guns and hunting related..

First off.Did you know that the mag according to one ex editor I know,to have it printed here in Ireland.Will ONLY be considerd in glossy style format magazine ??Which means it costs an absolute bomb to produce/print per month! Unlike the Country mans Weekly from the Uk which is in "newspaper"format and glossy front and cheaper[because it is Bi weekly?].That cant be done here,as it is unecnomical according to Irish printers.
So already this is a major stumbling block for mags trying to set up here,or do print one or two editions and disapper into the failed busisness graveyard in Ireland. You cant produce a monthly newspaper.:eek:

So you as the editor must fill this empty space with articles,and prefably somthing that pays [IE adverts].Hence the reason for the large amounts of adverts in the ISD.They pay to keep it going.It is also why most of the really long surviors[EG THe Field UK] while they started out as shooting,fishin&huntin mags 100 odd years are now more resembling "Country life for those of huge means,and we do the odd article on fieldsports."They had to diversify to keep going.after all running a mag is a busisness first and a service to the readers second.Sad but true.

Yes,indeed the mags would love to do more firearms reviews.However our liscensing system and market niche makes this pretty difficult.In the US/Uk/EU gun makers will ring up mags and offer them new firearms to test and play around with,because it is free advertising and product review.We dont have [1] enough shooters here to justify a gun company sending us a gun to test fire and try out.[2] the liscensing system makes this a potential legal and beucratic nightmare.Nor would any Irish gun dealer loan a new gun out because of the liscenseing requirements,legal aspects of product liability,and misuse of the gun.How are they ,or anyone to know that you are an accrdited writer for ISD??
Best way to sort this Irish problem would be,say you have bought a new gun of whatever type,or have shot one extensively.You write a short piece on it,what you find is good ,bad or indifferent.We just have to adapt to what the law allows us here.Plus,it would be unique,as these articles would be written by the actual users rather than somone who is paid to talk up a new product to keep a companies busisness.

Next problem,articles.The standard "when I was a lad" or "how I shot an elephant with my air rifle".Are written in by folks who do this of a voluntary nature,and make a few quid as well[45punts last time I wrote one].So with that kind of a payscale you are hardly going to have Jeff Cooper or Geffory Bothryood[were they with us still] on tap every month.
Writing professional articles for journals/mags is a job as well,and most writers who know their stuff can pick and choose who they flog their articles to.With that kind of wages,wouldnt you think twice on this as well?
However on that point,if you want to see articles revelant to your sector of shooting.Try writing one yourselfs,and I dont mean that dispragingly.The nice thing about Eric is if he thinks it is good,not libellous and of intrest to shooting .He will print it..God knows he printed some of my drivel and rants anyway.:rolleyes: You will get out of that mag what you put into it.Fed up with quite a lot of the contents,write somthing about your side of the sport.That way you will get more intrest in your side of things.Plus mags will lie around a shop,clubhouse and WC alot longer than a computor Ezine.Which brings a whole slew of problems in it's wake as well.[mostly on advertising and getting paid],and as Sparks pointed out it is a pain lugging the laptop down to the Throne room for a good quiet read.:D
Adverts of scantily clad ladies.Hmmm well the only one I have ever seen for CZ for Ardee,was rather tasteful,[the wasted 33 years one]and I have seen worse advertising the latest perfume/knickers or whatnot in the standard Man haters monthly womans magazines.So lets not worry too much about the eye candy ads.It is a std advertising tactic all over the world with all products.Even kids are being sold stuff using these tactics.
Iwould say if this sort of thing offends you.DO NOT go to any gunshows in the USA or Europe.There are REAL LIVE scantily clad women at almost every booth!!![They are the ones with the most biz as well].Even the priggish Yanks in CA dont get upset about this..
[On that subject,please do send any good pics of the CZ girls to me via PM.I'm wearing my dirty Mac today.:D:D:D]

To finish.Iam glad the ISD is still with us.So Eric must be doing somthing right.But he is running it on what the market wants at the moment [IE us lot.] If we want to read intresting articles,we had better contibute them or put up with whats there.

Gerri

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Having seen and written for a couple of mags [now long gone]back in dem oul days of the 80s when we had to write articles with quills and self made ink.:eek:.I am actually amazed that ISD has survived this long.
There are some unique problems that you have with writing or running a mag here in Ireland especially one that is guns and hunting related..

First off.Did you know that the mag according to one ex editor I know,to have it printed here in Ireland.Will ONLY be considerd in glossy style format magazine ??Which means it costs an absolute bomb to produce/print per month! Unlike the Country mans Weekly from the Uk which is in "newspaper"format and glossy front and cheaper[because it is Bi weekly?].That cant be done here,as it is unecnomical according to Irish printers.
So already this is a major stumbling block for mags trying to set up here,or do print one or two editions and disapper into the failed busisness graveyard in Ireland. You cant produce a monthly newspaper.:eek:

So you as the editor must fill this empty space with articles,and prefably somthing that pays [IE adverts].Hence the reason for the large amounts of adverts in the ISD.They pay to keep it going.It is also why most of the really long surviors[EG THe Field UK] while they started out as shooting,fishin&huntin mags 100 odd years are now more resembling "Country life for those of huge means,and we do the odd article on fieldsports."They had to diversify to keep going.after all running a mag is a busisness first and a service to the readers second.Sad but true.

Yes,indeed the mags would love to do more firearms reviews.However our liscensing system and market niche makes this pretty difficult.In the US/Uk/EU gun makers will ring up mags and offer them new firearms to test and play around with,because it is free advertising and product review.We dont have [1] enough shooters here to justify a gun company sending us a gun to test fire and try out.[2] the liscensing system makes this a potential legal and beucratic nightmare.Nor would any Irish gun dealer loan a new gun out because of the liscenseing requirements,legal aspects of product liability,and misuse of the gun.How are they ,or anyone to know that you are an accrdited writer for ISD??
Best way to sort this Irish problem would be,say you have bought a new gun of whatever type,or have shot one extensively.You write a short piece on it,what you find is good ,bad or indifferent.We just have to adapt to what the law allows us here.Plus,it would be unique,as these articles would be written by the actual users rather than somone who is paid to talk up a new product to keep a companies busisness.

Next problem,articles.The standard "when I was a lad" or "how I shot an elephant with my air rifle".Are written in by folks who do this of a voluntary nature,and make a few quid as well[45punts last time I wrote one].So with that kind of a payscale you are hardly going to have Jeff Cooper or Geffory Bothryood[were they with us still] on tap every month.
Writing professional articles for journals/mags is a job as well,and most writers who know their stuff can pick and choose who they flog their articles to.With that kind of wages,wouldnt you think twice on this as well?
However on that point,if you want to see articles revelant to your sector of shooting.Try writing one yourselfs,and I dont mean that dispragingly.The nice thing about Eric is if he thinks it is good,not libellous and of intrest to shooting .He will print it..God knows he printed some of my drivel and rants anyway.:rolleyes: You will get out of that mag what you put into it.Fed up with quite a lot of the contents,write somthing about your side of the sport.That way you will get more intrest in your side of things.Plus mags will lie around a shop,clubhouse and WC alot longer than a computor Ezine.Which brings a whole slew of problems in it's wake as well.[mostly on advertising and getting paid],and as Sparks pointed out it is a pain lugging the laptop down to the Throne room for a good quiet read.:D
Adverts of scantily clad ladies.Hmmm well the only one I have ever seen for CZ for Ardee,was rather tasteful,[the wasted 33 years one]and I have seen worse advertising the latest perfume/knickers or whatnot in the standard Man haters monthly womans magazines.So lets not worry too much about the eye candy ads.It is a std advertising tactic all over the world with all products.Even kids are being sold stuff using these tactics.
Iwould say if this sort of thing offends you.DO NOT go to any gunshows in the USA or Europe.There are REAL LIVE scantily clad women at almost every booth!!![They are the ones with the most biz as well].Even the priggish Yanks in CA dont get upset about this..
[On that subject,please do send any good pics of the CZ girls to me via PM.I'm wearing my dirty Mac today.:D:D:D]

To finish.Iam glad the ISD is still with us.So Eric must be doing somthing right.But he is running it on what the market wants at the moment [IE us lot.] If we want to read intresting articles,we had better contibute them or put up with whats there.

Well said!!! About time someone told it like it is, pity most of the audience won't appreciate the truth of what you say. It's always easier to sit and moan about what is wrong but not so easy to invest time and effort in putting it right. I did find it interesting that Sparks said he has phone calls from people criticising articles that are written by "that eejit", just goes to prove that the magazine is still selling quite a few copies. Must be similar to the Gay Byrne phenomenon, half the country love him, half the country hate him but the whole country is talking about him, must be a success so.

Sparks

Gerri wrote: »

Well said!!! About time someone told it like it is, pity most of the audience won't appreciate the truth of what you say.

Thanks for the sotto voce insult there Gerri.

It's always easier to sit and moan about what is wrong but not so easy to invest time and effort in putting it right.

Yeah. So, what have you done lately?

I did find it interesting that Sparks said he has phone calls from people criticising articles that are written by "that eejit", just goes to prove that the magazine is still selling quite a few copies.

No, just that bad news spreads by word of mouth very quickly in this country.

Must be similar to the Gay Byrne phenomenon, half the country love him, half the country hate him but the whole country is talking about him, must be a success so.

Really? The whole country was talking about Swim Ireland after they caught one of their coachs kiddy-fiddling. The whole country was talking about Cian O'Connor after his horse tested positive in Athens, and about Denis Lynch this time round. The whole country was talking about Irish athletes because of the dearth of medals before the boxing medals were won in Beijing. Would those count as successes as well?

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Thanks for the sotto voce insult there Gerri.Yeah. So, what have you done lately?No, just that bad news spreads by word of mouth very quickly in this country. Really? The whole country was talking about Swim Ireland after they caught one of their coachs kiddy-fiddling. The whole country was talking about Cian O'Connor after his horse tested positive in Athens, and about Denis Lynch this time round. The whole country was talking about Irish athletes because of the dearth of medals before the boxing medals were won in Beijing. Would those count as successes as well?

this is very simple is you dont like the isd dont buy it or e mail eric about what you would like to read about ,i thing there should be more short snippets of information in it ..i would like to do see more game to eat related stuff im sure some of our top chefs would be interested , i asked eric about this he thinks we would have no interest ..also i would like show how to train a dog for deer work in it .we have so many hunters and so few of them have a trained dog for deer work .eric is a sound lad and if he thought he will sell more mags he will listen ,i give out about some of if not all the **** cal comes out with but some likes it ,i get a pain my head when im reading him .only for the internet he would have very little to say

paddyenfield303

whats rong with this mag is there more shooting mags here in Ireland

Gerri

Sparks wrote: »

Thanks for the sotto voce insult there Gerri.Yeah. So, what have you done lately?No, just that bad news spreads by word of mouth very quickly in this country. Really? The whole country was talking about Swim Ireland after they caught one of their coachs kiddy-fiddling. The whole country was talking about Cian O'Connor after his horse tested positive in Athens, and about Denis Lynch this time round. The whole country was talking about Irish athletes because of the dearth of medals before the boxing medals were won in Beijing. Would those count as successes as well?

I suppose I should clarify a few things; my involvement in shooting is primarily for me, anything else I do connected with shooting sports I do not need to publicise as I am not doing it for recognition,gratitude or so that I can say on boards "I do xyz for shooting and give up my time freely for no reward". I am sorry that you think people involved in trying to further shooting sports in this country should be publicising it all the time. Why can't we just do the work and leave the "needy" people to claim the credit as you do so often? I believe you may have some difficulties with an ISD correspondent so perhaps this colours your judgement on occasion? Debate started because of differing views on articles published in the ISD may perhaps help in some way to keep the topic of shooting alive and may even encourage new people to take up the sport. It may even be that certain articles spark an interest in people which could lead them to a whole new aspect of shooting, collecting de-acts, shooting classic rifle or even collecting old military bayonets (which are relevant to shooting as without a firearm to attach them to they are merely either knives or swords). Shooting magazine articles do regularly cause differences of opinion by their content, if people want to read articles to reinforce their own particular viewpoint, I am pretty sure they would soon become bored. What makes for interesting articles is an opportunity to explore a different viewpoint or opinion and perhaps put some of the author's views/opinions to the test against their own. For those who are disappointed with the amount of gundog and clay reports in the magazine, ask yourself, are participants in these sports not entitled to have a magazine which publishes what they are interested in? After all dogs are used by hunters and a lot of clay shooters also hunt.

Sparks

Gerri wrote: »

I am sorry that you think people involved in trying to further shooting sports in this country should be publicising it all the time.

Don't be. I don't think that. I think that the sports should be publicised, yes. And I also think that if you're going to come in here and say that the problem is that people aren't doing enough work for others, then you'd better have done some time at the wheel yourself, or you're going to be (rightly) thought less of for it.

I believe you may have some difficulties with an ISD correspondent

Nope, don't. Think one of them shouldn't be an ISD "correspondent" because he brings the sport into disrepute, but that's not "difficulties", that's an opinion.

military bayonets (which are relevant to shooting

No, they're not, any more than fish are relevant to bicycles.

What makes for interesting articles is an opportunity to explore a different viewpoint or opinion and perhaps put some of the author's views/opinions to the test against their own.

No, what makes an interesting article is new content. Facts that the reader does not already have. Hence reviews of new equipment, photos of ranges and shooters, reports on results of competitions, news on changes in rules or regulations or laws, and so on.

For those who are disappointed with the amount of gundog and clay reports in the magazine, ask yourself, are participants in these sports not entitled to have a magazine which publishes what they are interested in?

Sure are, and they outnumber target shooters by a sizable margin. No problem with them being there at all.

Story Man

Irish Shooters Digest is a no-nonsense shooting man's magazine, unlike that other excuse for a magazine in this country which tries emulate the Field! That just does not work here.

I like Sporting Shooter for the same reasons as posted here. Both are a good read and cater for both markets, here and GB.

Countryman's Weekly is a good publication too. Again, a no-nonsense read.

SM

Sparks

No-nonsense shooting man's magazine

No, it isn't. It's full of nonsense, that's the problem. The ICPSA bits are okay, but frankly, the rest is usually more noise than signal.
Merging this thread with the earlier one on the Digest.

bunny shooter

Don't believe it but I have to agree with ya Sparks :eek:

I don't know how it is still in print considering it's content.

Was a subscriber but ceased about 12 months ago.

Articles on airsoft sealed it's fate for me :rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

I occasionally buy the Digest if I'm bored and need something to read in work. Tend to be very unimpressed though when I do. The vast majority tends to be waffle with absolutely no relevance to Irish shooting as we see it. Do I remember something about bayonet collections and how someone felt aggrieved at the licensing process and Garda views about firearms devolving into several pages of self-important ranting? Because I don't want to hear this chap's whinging; I'd like to know more about Irish shooting.

jwshooter

i have not read the digest for 2-4 months now, eric stopped sending it to me .
we as hunters ,shooters ,field sports men have to have a form of information thats impartial.
whats is that total waxxer going on about casting bullets and loading .the shxt he wrights every month is a waste of paper .
i had a headache from reading it ,good thing was he only had 3 pictures of him self this month .

IRLConor

OK. I've cleaned out all the crap. Be nice to each other folks.

macnas

Had a look at the March issue last night, didn't buy it myself and will never buy it again but I would have to thank the two individuals whose letters were published replying to last month's NARGC report.

bunny shooter

Now I have to get a look at it You're working for digest really? :P

Sparks

Having read those letters (yeah, little birdy mentioned them so I did macnas's trick of looking and not buying), I'm not sure we can get too deeply into them here. I know I wouldn't trust myself to tear off a few strips from the authors for going after ISSF shooting like that, and one spat is enough for the week for me I think.

bunny shooter

Tempt me go on not gonna give in and buy it

ISSF battering .......................... never :eek:

Sparks you must be mellowing

Sparks

No, I just think I've reached my limit and when next I go boom, I might start naming names. That'd do more harm than good right now.

Sparks

Trimmed another spat/digression. Back on topic...