Irish Army In Chad

Chuck U Farley

[FONT=&quot]We have to look at the bigger picture here, the days ahead may shape or reshape the ground in Chad and the direction of events could lead to a more dramatic change in the political landscape in Africa. If Washington and Paris tergiversate, the future Chadian Taliban will consolidate their grip, gain more ground and the Darfur operation will be doomed, these forces have been backed by the Jihadi regime in Khartoum and some of its funding -according to the Chadian Government- has been sent from Saudi Arabia. There is much more a foot than just the need for a humanitarian mission. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Irish soldiers have been placed in a situation where there is not a great deal of support if the “fit hits the shan”, while France plays both sides of the fence. It is a political disgrace yet again to have been put into this position without substantial back up from other “neutral” countries. Granted the refugees need international help, but only if there is enough support on the ground which there is not. I just hope our lads are not left hanging with their arses in the breeze. [/FONT]

Chuck U Farley

Chuck U Farley wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]The Irish soldiers have been placed in a situation where there is not a great deal of support if the “fit hits the shan”, while France plays both sides of the fence. It is a political disgrace yet again to have been put into this position without substantial back up from other “neutral” countries. Granted the refugees need international help, but only if there is enough support on the ground which there is not. I just hope our lads are not left hanging with their arses in the breeze. [/FONT]

hitting the nail on the head in a single post which i wasnt able to do! Well put!

cp251

Kaiser_Sma wrote: »

Well i don't mean to be a kill joy but theres no real evidence to sugest that there is some genetic or cultural tendancy for irish people to be better soilders then any other country. While you may find some cultural differnce between a european soilder and an african for example may effect the way they fight, it really is down to training, equipment and individual merit. Most other things are coincidental.

I take your point but you have missed mine. It's wasn't referring to any form of genetic or even cultural tendency. If anything there is a tendency to be culturally anti military. Without being patronising. I note that in other posts you have made that you tend towards a slightly negative view of modern man. I also take it you never had any military experience. If you had you might be more aware of how important espirit de corps and tradition is in any army. To go outside the military. Why for example is Kilkenny a strong hurling county but not Carlow or Longford? Tradition and espirit de Corps. Why is any company of the Grenadier Guards better than troops of C company of the 2nd Battalion of the 322nd regiment. The same answer. The men are the same. Swop the men around whether it's hurling or soldiering and you get the same result. It's not just about training. It's about motivation and self belief and some other indefinable things.

I'm not saying that the Irish make better soldiers than other other country. But there is a long history of Irish soldiers distinguishing themselves in battle particularly when they're organised in Irish units. When you have a reputation, you will tend to act on that reputation. You don't even have to be Irish. The Irish Guards have many non Irish in their ranks, but tradition is everything.

The ARW are an elite unit in the Irish army. They know it themselves, even the official title of 'Fiannoglach' harks back to ancient warriors. They have a reputation to maintain. Serving among foreign troops they will feel this most keenly. If the see action they will not want to be seen to fail in any way. Although other Irish soldiers are not elite troops. They too know they have a reputation to maintain.

That's not unique to the Irish. Most people would agree that US Marines are better than most US army units. But they recruit from the same population. The training is different but not by much. The big difference is the reputation of the Marines.

But I will say that certain cultures and nationalities show up again and again when there's fighting to be done. It might just be a coincidence but then again...........?

Rock99

Have to laugh at these posts :D The irish will do what they do best on any over seas mission. Drink and get a sun tan. And that is a fact.

Hagar

Thank you for that insightful post Rocky99, perhaps you'll have another one for us next week when you get back.

delos

cp251 wrote: »

But I will say that certain cultures and nationalities show up again and again when there's fighting to be done. It might just be a coincidence but then again...........?

If you look at European history the nationalities that tend to show up in other countries armies tend to be the Irish, Scots and Swiss. Rather than an innate martial prowess compared with other nationalities, I'd tend to look more towards poverty and lack opportunity at home. Sorry for straying off topic....

Oilrig

Guys, a political decision has been made. Our military have been tasked with executing that decision. They've decided the format of the mission etc.

First step seems to involve sending an ARW unit in (as in Somalia, Timor Lest etc.) The "regular" troops will follow.

I've no doubt that based on the intel (probably supplied by the French) they've made their plans and all else will follow once the feedback from the deployed ARW guys is incorporated.

Its a typical military operation.

All this bullsh*t about guaranteeing soldiers security etc is a joke.

They will do it as best they can, there may well be fatalities... that's the nature of the game. They understand that.

cp251

If that was true, why aren't the world's best soldiers Eastern Europeans, Africans and South Americans? Why can't you give credit where credit is due? Why always with the put downs.

Have to laugh at these posts The irish will do what they do best on any over seas mission. Drink and get a sun tan. And that is a fact.

Until the shooting starts Rocky. Do some reading on the history of Irish soldiers in the service of many countries. Oh and by the way irish starts with a capital I as in Irish:mad: Have some pride in your country if you are Irish.

That is the trouble with too many Irish people. No pride in their country or their history. Of course it's mostly ignorance. The only history we were taught was of failure and oppression. How can you have pride in that?

When are we going to lose this sneering disregard for the Irish army? Maybe they need to go to war before some people get the message.

It is quite clear that despite our recent improved economic climate and the increased confidence of Irish people particularly the young. There is still the plenty of the old begrudgery around. The Irish disease

delos

cp251 wrote: »

If that was true, why aren't the world's best soldiers Eastern Europeans, Africans and South Americans? Why can't you give credit where credit is due? Why always with the put downs.

I'll assume this is directed at my post. I don't see where I was 'putting down' the reputation of the Irish army. Where did I detract from the ability of Irish soldiers? I didn't say that poverty made the best soldiers in the world, I implied that poverty and a lack of opportunity was a driving force in the historical tendency of wide-spread service by the Irish Scots and Swiss in the armed forces of other countries. Apart from the their role throughout the years in the British army they hey day of the Irish and Scottish soldier in European conflict was the 17th and 18th century - with the Swiss it was somewhat earlier. These periods correspond with poverty and lack of opportunity in the countries concerned which I think is more than coincidental. Maybe I'm wrong and what drove them was some misty-eyed Celtic romanticism and dreams of Fionn mac Cumhaill and the Fianna....

twinytwo

Rock99 wrote: »

Have to laugh at these posts :D The irish will do what they do best on any over seas mission. Drink and get a sun tan. And that is a fact.

Is that not what every army in the world does when there is nothing else to do... Im sure the rangers over there will have their hands full.. Have to ask lets say the worst happens and the **** hits the fan. If the Irish base was attacked and soldiers were injured or killed.. Would our goverment take their heads out of their asses and do something??

cp251

In fact Delos only the first paragraph was directed at you. The rest is more less a general attack on public attitudes to the military with Rocky's attitude been typical even if he meant it lightheartedly.

But to clarify my point. A man's reasons for joining the army is quite different to his performance when he is a soldier. A man might join the army to get a job and provide for his family. So how do you reconcile this motive against the same man charging a machine gun single handedly in battle with certain death as the only result?

I'm not talking about mens reasons for joining but their performance after they join. The Irish and Scots have a well deserved reputation for fighting prowess. Whatever the reason, it's a historical fact.

eroo

cp251 wrote: »

If that was true, why aren't the world's best soldiers Eastern Europeans, Africans and South Americans? Why can't you give credit where credit is due? Why always with the put downs.



Until the shooting starts Rocky. Do some reading on the history of Irish soldiers in the service of many countries. Oh and by the way irish starts with a capital I as in Irish:mad: Have some pride in your country if you are Irish.

That is the trouble with too many Irish people. No pride in their country or their history. Of course it's mostly ignorance. The only history we were taught was of failure and oppression. How can you have pride in that?

When are we going to lose this sneering disregard for the Irish army? Maybe they need to go to war before some people get the message.

It is quite clear that despite our recent improved economic climate and the increased confidence of Irish people particularly the young. There is still the plenty of the old begrudgery around. The Irish disease

Please someone give this man a medal!Has to be THE best post I have seen on boards.ie as of yet!

Mate,to say most Irish people have no pride in their country is an understatement!They couldn't give a ****.I honestly joined RDF because of my pride in our history and of my country.Irish people have forgotten only all too quickly those who died in the line of fire for Ireland..whether it be those who died in the Congo..or those who died fighting for independence throughout the centuries!

And yes,there is a culture of ''oh,the army'' in this country..people look down on the Defence Forces when they themselves aren't worth ****e!!

I could go on..but I won't:D.Anyway,cp251...well done mate,could not have put it better myself!:)

cp251

Well thanks. I do believe that Irish people in general lack pride in their country. Particularly but not solely the older generation. Only recently have I become proud of being Irish. Our recent economic success is no fluke. Plus when you speak to foreigners who are full of praise for Ireland you begin to realise there is something to it. Maybe it's to do with our rather negative history. In the past it was bombings and terrorism. The flag and the anthem were hijacked by a bunch of terrorists. That's all changed now. Maybe the kids growing up will be take a greater pride in their country.

It is particularly noticeable when you go abroad. Other nationalities often have no problem expressing their pride. Americans in particular who can be a little over the top but most Europeans are quick enough to salute their flags and sing their national anthem enthusiastically. How many Irish actually know the words of the national anthem?

Slagging off the Irish military is a national sport. Time for it to stop.

Dirty Knuckles

twinytwo wrote: »

Is that not what every army in the world does when there is nothing else to do... Im sure the rangers over there will have their hands full.. Have to ask lets say the worst happens and the **** hits the fan. If the Irish base was attacked and soldiers were injured or killed.. Would our goverment take their heads out of their asses and do something??

Do something like what exactly?..

Like when lads were killed in Lebanon, make dipolmatic protests to the Israeli consulate? (in the case of Lebanon)..

Or up-armour our soft skinned Nissan Patrols?...

Maybe in even issue desert pattern DPM's instead of our national DPM's (the British and American's learned the importance of this at the expense of young lives in Afghanistan & Iraq).

twinytwo

Dirty Knuckles wrote: »

Do something like what exactly?..

Like when lads were killed in Lebanon, make dipolmatic protests to the Israeli consulate? (in the case of Lebanon)..

Or up-armour our soft skinned Nissan Patrols?...

Maybe in even issue desert pattern DPM's instead of our national DPM's (the British and American's learned the importance of this at the expense of young lives in Afghanistan & Iraq).

Its like say if someone turned around and kicked u in the nut sack.. ur hardly going to do nothing about it... Like what is the point in sending the troops if the government aint willing to go out of its way to protect them

twinytwo

cp251 wrote: »

Well thanks. I do believe that Irish people in general lack pride in their country. Particularly but not solely the older generation. Only recently have I become proud of being Irish. Our recent economic success is no fluke. Plus when you speak to foreigners who are full of praise for Ireland you begin to realise there is something to it. Maybe it's to do with our rather negative history. In the past it was bombings and terrorism. The flag and the anthem were hijacked by a bunch of terrorists. That's all changed now. Maybe the kids growing up will be take a greater pride in their country.

It is particularly noticeable when you go abroad. Other nationalities often have no problem expressing their pride. Americans in particular who can be a little over the top but most Europeans are quick enough to salute their flags and sing their national anthem enthusiastically. How many Irish actually know the words of the national anthem?

Slagging off the Irish military is a national sport. Time for it to stop.

Very true...I like all these keyboard warriors who talk the talk on the net but would never have the guts or pride to join the army but think its great to bitch about them on the net..They do the country proud wherever they go...Id love to see some of ye go up and slag off a ranger or any member of the Defence Forces face to face and see what happens

purple'n'gold

twinytwo wrote: »

Is that not what every army in the world does when there is nothing else to do... Im sure the rangers over there will have their hands full.. Have to ask lets say the worst happens and the **** hits the fan. If the Irish base was attacked and soldiers were injured or killed.. Would our goverment take their heads out of their asses and do something??

What do you mean exactly? If the Irish base is attacked I would expect our soldiers to defend themselves with everything they have at their disposal. And keep defending themselves and killing as many of the attackers as possible until the attack is repulsed. This is what they have been trained to do and if they are not able to do this they should not be there, they are soldiers, not missionaries.

shakin

the irish are there as peace enforcers are they not? if so they can utilise every weapon in their arsenal to defend themselves

twinytwo

purplengold wrote: »

What do you mean exactly? If the Irish base is attacked I would expect our soldiers to defend themselves with everything they have at their disposal. And keep defending themselves and killing as many of the attackers as possible until the attack is repulsed. This is what they have been trained to do and if they are not able to do this they should not be there, they are soldiers, not missionaries.

This is not what i mean... Obviously they would defend themselves as any soldier would do...But if they attack irish troops..is this not an act of war.. as in if they were to attack british troops england would turn around and kick their(who ever attacks them) ass back to the stone age as would the legion who have troops stationed there. I mean actions taken after the actual event.. What im asking is would we(the government) take an offensive stance?

Dirty Knuckles

twinytwo wrote: »

Its like say if someone turned around and kicked u in the nut sack.. ur hardly going to do nothing about it... Like what is the point in sending the troops if the government aint willing to go out of its way to protect them

But you still haven't said what measures you'd like our government to take.

Do you think we should wait to see what if we should have armoured FFR's (for example) or should we wait until a Nissan Patrol is disabled (killing and/or injuring troops). I'm only using this as an example.

Personally I think if we're going to continue to take on these mission's we probably need equipement dedicated to serving oversea's, ie Humvee's (or similar). The list is long and I'm pushed for time.

But we can't keep taking vehicles from home units and 'press gang' them into oversea's service and expect them to provide for our lads.

Same goes for field hospital units, proper engineering equipement with an established re-supply route, communications & IT etc.

Anytime I've served oversea's, and I'm sure any of the lads here who've served will testify to this, all this equipement has been taken from home units and we've operated on 'a wing & a prayer'.

Sorry, have to shoot off (pardon the pun ).

But I hope I'm getting my point accross.

eroo

cp251 wrote: »

The flag and the anthem were hijacked by a bunch of terrorists.

cp251 wrote: »

It is particularly noticeable when you go abroad. Other nationalities often have no problem expressing their pride. Americans in particular who can be a little over the top but most Europeans are quick enough to salute their flags and sing their national anthem enthusiastically. How many Irish actually know the words of the national anthem? .

Great minds think alike I say...SF/IRA in the past,in some ways still do,hijack the flag and the anthem.They somehow think they belong to them.:rolleyes:

As for other countries..just look at the US..nearly ever car bumper has a US sticker on it..and most US houses have US flags flying!

cp251

purplengold wrote: »

What do you mean exactly? If the Irish base is attacked I would expect our soldiers to defend themselves with everything they have at their disposal. And keep defending themselves and killing as many of the attackers as possible until the attack is repulsed. This is what they have been trained to do and if they are not able to do this they should not be there, they are soldiers, not missionaries.

That pretty much exactly what happened at Jadotville. They only surrendered when they ran out of ammunition and water after holding out for days against greatly superior numbers, without losing a man.

But look what happened to them. They were vilified for years for failing to die! The British would have given VCs to half the unit. The Americans would have made movies about it. The Irish ignored it until recently. Even the Niemba massacre was mishandled badly particularly in the case of the survivors case. They also failed to die, so were pretty much ignored.

Very strange mentality.:mad:

cp251

Here's something appropriate to the discussion I found on Indymedia. That bastion of absurdity. But to be fair they do allow contrary views and there are plenty.

Urgent action Needed to Stop Irish Military Action In Chad
international | anti-war | opinion/analysis Dé Luain Mí na Samhna 19, 2007 10:19 by Malcolm
Irish neutrality in imminent danger as it joins the "War on Terror"

Lieutenant General Dermot Earley the gung-ho ex-Ranger and commander of the Irish military must be licking his lips!

The Minister for Foreign Affairs says he expects a Government decision to be made on Tuesday over the deployment of up to four hundred Irish troops in eastern Chad.

Dermot Ahern has just returned from a four day visit to Sudan and Chad, during which he met with Government leaders as well as aid workers and local people.

If the Government gives its go-ahead for the mission the Dáil will then have to give its approval.

A gung-ho military bored with guarding armoured money vans wants to get its hands dirty in a nasty imperialist war in Africa.
The war in Darfur has been ongoing for a number of years now and has begun to spill over into Chad.

The mainstream media wants to paint the conflict as a civil war between the Khartoum and various rebel groups.

But this conflict has a much larger global sweep.

The Chinese government openly supports the Khartoum government in return for cheap oil.

The governments of Saudi Arabia, Syria and other Arab countries support the Islamic fundementalist Arab of Khartoum government in its ethnic genocidal war against the African population of Darfur.

Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda have provided jihadists fighters and weapons training to the Janjiweed, a home grown Taliban-like movement that operates in Darfur.

Sudan and Somalia were destined to become training centres for the jihadist movement much as pre-9/11 Afghanistan was.

After defeat in Somalia by the US backed Ethiopian invasion Al-Qaeda and the wider jihadist movement has maintained its presence in Sudan.

Ireland has given material support to the US wars of Afghanistan and Iraq by providing facilities at Shannon.

Now (under the fig leaf of UN approval) Ireland along with other nations are to open a new front in Chad against Chinese imperialist expansion and Islamic fundementalism supposedly to protect ethnic Africans but for the real objectives of securing Western oil supplies.

Oil is now almost $100 a barrel.

We have already witnessed Irish troops were sent to Lebanon ostensively on a peace keeping mission but infact to quell the Hezbollah insurgency in support of Israeli military objectives.

Now Irish troops will be sent fight the Janjiweed.

Irish troops will face the same threat from Islamic insurgency in Chad as the US military have foolishly brought upon themselves in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ireland is evidently a softer target that the United States from Islamic terrorist attacks.

Do the Irish people want to risk provoking attacks from terrorists because we are joining a war which is not our fight?

Do the Irish people want to get involved in the imperial US led Western war against the Islamic imperialists?

Do the Irish people want our soldiers to be cannon fodder so that the Western imperialists can deny Chinese imperialists oil resources in an arm wrestle for control of oil rich Sudan?

Do the Irish people want Irish troops to commit war crimes against the civilians of Chad and Sudan - the deaths of civilians are the inevitable consequences of military action.

On the one hand it's tripe of the smellest variety but on the other hand it's almost pleasing because they're described as gung ho.

Lieutenant General Dermot Earley the gung-ho ex-Ranger and commander of the Irish military must be licking his lips!

If I was him I would take that as a compliment.

Our boys are off to fight in the war against terror and against the Chinese.

On the other hand the idiot suggests that Irish troops will commit war crimes.

What a moron. :mad:

twinytwo

cp251 wrote: »

Here's something appropriate to the discussion I found on Indymedia. That bastion of absurdity. But to be fair they do allow contrary views and there are plenty.



On the one hand it's tripe of the smellest variety but on the other hand it's almost pleasing because they're described as gung ho.

If I was him I would take that as a compliment.

Our boys are off to fight in the war against terror and against the Chinese.

On the other hand the idiot suggests that Irish troops will commit war crimes.

What a moron. :mad:

I think its a joke that he has the neck to even suggest that irish troops would commit war crimes

purple'n'gold

twinytwo wrote: »

I think its a joke that he has the neck to even suggest that irish troops would commit war crimes

I think it’s a bigger joke to suggest that Irish troops could never commit war crimes. Of course they could, just like the well brought up and well educated young man can commit murder. We would be horrified if Irish troops did commit war crimes and IMO the chances of them doing so are slight. But it’s silly in the extreme to suggest that just because they are Irish it couldn’t happen.

Fratton Fred

So what is it that Indymedia are suggesting the world does then? give up and let even more people die or just give in the Al Qeada and the Janjiweed.

Personally speaking, Indymedia saying it shouldn't happen, is a perfect reason to do something.

If the world did nothing then they would be giving out about that too.

OS119

twinytwo wrote: »

This is not what i mean... Obviously they would defend themselves as any soldier would do...But if they attack irish troops..is this not an act of war.. as in if they were to attack british troops england would turn around and kick their(who ever attacks them) ass back to the stone age as would the legion who have troops stationed there. I mean actions taken after the actual event.. What im asking is would we(the government) take an offensive stance?

in the Chad deployment i imagine that 'retribution' attacks would be off the radar - not for moral or political reasons, merely that the chances of getting the group that attacked an EU unit into a situation where they were visibly armed, clearly defined and away from civilians allowing an EUBG to bring Artillery, CAS and battalion level weapons to bear on them would be pretty slim. the RoE of the UN mandate would be worth reading as well, 'vigourously' defending yourself - or others - is one thing, chasing and then killing those who have attacked you after they have ceased attacking you is quite something else. well, in UN-land it is anyway...

the French might be able to drop the odd LGB in support during an action, but the chances of any of these muppets hanging around long enough for the French to give them a good air-dropped shoeing is limited in the extreme.

best answer, as always, is to stop it before it starts: lots of soldiers, lots of armour, lots of very visible heavy weapons - mortar/ATGW/HMG - lots of very aggressive, continual and unpredictable patrolling, and so much rotary and fixed-wing support that the sky turns black. if any attacks do occur, those conducting them need to be defeated (by which i mean killed) quickly, at the ste of the attack, publicly and spectacularly. then it only happens once and no one else has to die - either Peacekeaper, civilian or 'insurgent'.

lightly armed and 'discreet' peacekeeping ops tend to go bad, people die, nobody pays any attention to the PK force and in the end you either leave or bring in the heavy gear. Heavily armed PK ops tend to work as no one plays around wth them - the analogy isn't brilliant, but think of the dfferences between different national BG's in UNPROFOR. in Bosnia some BG's hid in their compounds and just brought IW's, while others brought tracked AFV's and all the gear includng artillery and wasted no time in showing it off to the locals. guess whch ones got dicked around...?

twinytwo

OS119 wrote: »

in the Chad deployment i imagine that 'retribution' attacks would be off the radar - not for moral or political reasons, merely that the chances of getting the group that attacked an EU unit into a situation where they were visibly armed, clearly defined and away from civilians allowing an EUBG to bring Artillery, CAS and battalion level weapons to bear on them would be pretty slim. the RoE of the UN mandate would be worth reading as well, 'vigourously' defending yourself - or others - is one thing, chasing and then killing those who have attacked you after they have ceased attacking you is quite something else. well, in UN-land it is anyway...

the French might be able to drop the odd LGB in support during an action, but the chances of any of these muppets hanging around long enough for the French to give them a good air-dropped shoeing is limited in the extreme.

best answer, as always, is to stop it before it starts: lots of soldiers, lots of armour, lots of very visible heavy weapons - mortar/ATGW/HMG - lots of very aggressive, continual and unpredictable patrolling, and so much rotary and fixed-wing support that the sky turns black. if any attacks do occur, those conducting them need to be defeated (by which i mean killed) quickly, at the ste of the attack, publicly and spectacularly. then it only happens once and no one else has to die - either Peacekeaper, civilian or 'insurgent'.

lightly armed and 'discreet' peacekeeping ops tend to go bad, people die, nobody pays any attention to the PK force and in the end you either leave or bring in the heavy gear. Heavily armed PK ops tend to work as no one plays around wth them - the analogy isn't brilliant, but think of the dfferences between different national BG's in UNPROFOR. in Bosnia some BG's hid in their compounds and just brought IW's, while others brought tracked AFV's and all the gear includng artillery and wasted no time in showing it off to the locals. guess whch ones got dicked around...?

Good point

eroo

http://military.ie/overseas/ops/africa/chad/index.htm#

pics of ARW in Chad

Hagar

Nice pics in the slide show.
I'll go out on a limb here and ask am I the only one who thinks the vehicles are too close together on a public road? Unless of course that area is 100% safe. Is there anywhere 100% safe in Chad?

twinytwo

Hagar wrote: »

Nice pics in the slide show.
I'll go out on a limb here and ask am I the only one who thinks the vehicles are too close together on a public road? Unless of course that area is 100% safe. Is there anywhere 100% safe in Chad.

Ur right way too close.... i doubt there is anywhere that is 100% safe

uptherebels

Hagar wrote: »

Nice pics in the slide show.
I'll go out on a limb here and ask am I the only one who thinks the vehicles are too close together on a public road? Unless of course that area is 100% safe. Is there anywhere 100% safe in Chad?

The pics would have to taken in context.You'd have to know more about where(where in chad) and when the pics were taken. i.e the vehicles might have been parked outside wherever their staying(so their parked close together so their easier to guard).They come out to go somewhere and someone with a camera goes hold up, a few pics for the people back home.

Oilrig

Re: slideshow pics... why didn't they paint the vehicles desert colours before deployment?

OS119, good post.

As for that rubbish cp251 quoted from indymedia... typical of the crap a green journo would publish, just in country and under deadline pressure... talk to the barman in their hotel and mash it with an internet search of the empathy lacking US media sites... :mad: trouble is, someone is reading that tripe and believing it... :eek:

ChapOfDRyans

does anybody no what equipment the main body will bring to Chad.Wil it be the usual stuff i.e aml 90,mowags,drops,nissans etc or are the bringing anything differant equip.wonder will they bring out the new mowag crv's and 30mm mowags.

cp251

Looking at the pictures it occurred to me how much the guys resembled French troops. The DPM is similar too. That could be a problem although just being there could make them a target.

cushtac

cp251 wrote: »

Looking at the pictures it occurred to me how much the guys resembled French troops. The DPM is similar too. That could be a problem although just being there could make them a target.

They're white, they'll look like the French no matter what they wear.

biggun

Hagar wrote: »

Nice pics in the slide show.
I'll go out on a limb here and ask am I the only one who thinks the vehicles are too close together on a public road? Unless of course that area is 100% safe. Is there anywhere 100% safe in Chad?

IMHO, the vehcles are also way too close. They get a contact and there could be trouble extracting.

Similar situation happened in UNSOM. A convoy coming from Baidoa to Mog got hit up. Thankfully no serious injuries but it was hairy for a while.

biggun

Mairt wrote: »

Your assuming they're all ARW.

The female is not ARW.

eroo

Lads,it was probably a PR shoot taken by DF photographer...and I'd say it was taken in a 'safe zone'.Do you think the ARW or any right-minded troops would pull up on a roadside in the middle of a patrol in an area of serious threat for a photo shoot?Note that there aren't any drivers in convoy at the side of the road..they'd hardly do that in a potentially lethal area

wildwords

This chad mission is surely just a dry run for the new EU army. I mean rapid reaction force , I mean refugee protection mission.

Does it not provide the Irish and EU troops with valuable experience working together in difficult terrain and conditions with a more robust mandate than previous missions.

kosovo was nato and has ended up a mess about gas pipelines what a waste. anyway now its EU time, the yanks have been freekin out over the new EU forces forming in the last few years.

what an honour that Pat nash was chosen from Ireland for this the first of its kind, that is a true show of the respect the Irish have on the international scene. but we must also be aware that we are obviously also being used because of our impartiality and acceptabile reputation, smoke and mirrors as usual the politic of it all.

Controversially.
one added bonus to it all is the fact that now the army Ranger Wing is preoccupied and stretched it means that little old lady Ms Saxe-Coburg and Gotha with the purple hat from England cant visit. what a relief that we can forestall the embarrassing scenes of our national leaders shooing around a symbol and representative of serious £$%^ in this our state which claims to be a republic. would it not be seem strange to represent a republic and also recognise and respect inequality on a royal level, are they not there polar opposites.

note to Fraton F. ' please dont'

excuse spelling and grammar.

Hagar

From RTE News Web Site

Friday, 7 March 2008 20:05 All of the 50 Irish Rangers deployed to Chad in the past few weeks have now taken up position in their temporary base at Abeche, 965km from the capital N'Djamena.
They will spend the next few weeks assessing security in the designated Irish territory, and identify likely locations to accommodate the main body of 400 Irish troops being deployed there by the middle of May.
All of the vehicles, weapons, and supplies flown from Dublin on huge cargo aircraft have also arrived in Abeche.



Meanwhile, Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea has said that the disappearance of a French soldier will have no impact on the Irish mission.
The soldier apparently crossed the border from Chad to Sudan by mistake early this week. Discussions are now under way between the French and Sudanese authorities about identifying the body.
Events to mark Ireland's UN involvement
Arrangements are being made to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Irish Defence Forces involvement with UN peace missions.
A military parade is planned in McKee Barracks in Dublin on 26 June to which surviving veterans from all early deployments will be invited.
A special commemorative stamp will be issued, and a major photographic display is being organised at Collins Barracks Museum.



The Defence Forces made thier first contribution to peacekeeping in 1958, when 50 officers joined the UN Observer Group in Lebanon.
The first mission with an armed Irish contingent was to the Congo from 1960 to 1964.
Large groups of Irish soldiers have since served on UN missions in Cyprus, Sinai, and Lebanon (for 23 years). They have also served in Eritrea, East Timor, Liberia and in Lebanon for a third time.
Irish troops have served on humanitarian missions in Rwanda, Macedonia and Sri Lanka.
There are currently 470 soldiers serving on 18 missions abroad. The largest are in Kosovo, Chad and Bosnia. All of these are UN mandated operations.

Steyr

Have or will our guys be issued with the desert DPM's?

twinytwo

Steyr wrote: »

Have or will our guys be issued with the desert DPM's?

dont think they will....

OS119

Steyr wrote: »

Have or will our guys be issued with the desert DPM's?

apparently they have been ordered, and some have arrived, but not enough for the whole force, so its been decided that the first roulement will wear temperate/tropical DPM and the second roulement will deploy with Desert DPM - assuming its ready.

competing issues:

a) you absolutely do not want troops wearing radically different kit, if the crap hits the fan confusion could occur and you might shoot the wrong people.

b) in comfort terms a set of tropical DPM's should be as comfortable in that environment as desert DPM's - the garment is usually the same just a different colour.

c) by wearing a 'temperate' DPM in a desert envronment you'll stick out like the bollocks on a bulldog.

d) on the other hand the vehicles are dark green, all the PLCE (webbing, Bergans etc..) is Temperate and i'd lay good money on the frame tents that will probably make up the FOB's will be dark green. given that what you live in, drive around in and live out of is going to obvious for five miles in every direction, perhaps the issue of Desert DPM clothing is a 'can a mouse rape an elephant?' issue.

personally i think its a rubbish performance, a blind man in a fur coat would have known for the last five years that the future of UN mandated PK/PE ops was going to involve sandy places, and this mission specifically has been on the cards for a year or more. 18 months to find 1000 sets of Desert DPM? rank incompetence.

cp251

Controversially.
one added bonus to it all is the fact that now the army Ranger Wing is preoccupied and stretched it means that little old lady Ms Saxe-Coburg and Gotha with the purple hat from England cant visit. what a relief that we can forestall the embarrassing scenes of our national leaders shooing around a symbol and representative of serious £$%^ in this our state which claims to be a republic. would it not be seem strange to represent a republic and also recognise and respect inequality on a royal level, are they not there polar opposites.

Can you re-write that in English or in Irish seeing as you seem to have a problem with our neighbour's head of state or our neighbour or something.

twinytwo

has there been any news from chad?

twinytwo

OS119 wrote: »

apparently they have been ordered, and some have arrived, but not enough for the whole force, so its been decided that the first roulement will wear temperate/tropical DPM and the second roulement will deploy with Desert DPM - assuming its ready.

competing issues:

a) you absolutely do not want troops wearing radically different kit, if the crap hits the fan confusion could occur and you might shoot the wrong people.

b) in comfort terms a set of tropical DPM's should be as comfortable in that environment as desert DPM's - the garment is usually the same just a different colour.

c) by wearing a 'temperate' DPM in a desert envronment you'll stick out like the bollocks on a bulldog.

d) on the other hand the vehicles are dark green, all the PLCE (webbing, Bergans etc..) is Temperate and i'd lay good money on the frame tents that will probably make up the FOB's will be dark green. given that what you live in, drive around in and live out of is going to obvious for five miles in every direction, perhaps the issue of Desert DPM clothing is a 'can a mouse rape an elephant?' issue.

personally i think its a rubbish performance, a blind man in a fur coat would have known for the last five years that the future of UN mandated PK/PE ops was going to involve sandy places, and this mission specifically has been on the cards for a year or more. 18 months to find 1000 sets of Desert DPM? rank incompetence.

I think its a bit of a joken that we cant even equip our lads with the right clothes not to mind the right weapons

arybvtcw0eolkf

twinytwo wrote: »

has there been any news from chad?

The weather is hot, and the dollar is strong.

eroo

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0318/defence.html

While all of Ireland and the diaspora abroad celebrated St Patrick's Day, the 50 members of the Army Ranger Wing recently deployed to Chad were on patrol in the east of the country.


With temperatures soaring above 40C, the Rangers did not drown the shamrock.

Instead they continued on operations in prosecution of UN Security Council Resolution 1778.

With the full compliment of the Ranger Wing equipment deployed to EUFOR Chad/CAR and the strength of the UN mandated, EU led peacekeeping force now around 1,000 (including medical, logistics and air support), the force is continuing to patrol its large area of operations.

Abeche airportThe Austrian, Belgian, French, Irish and Swedish Initial Entry Force continue to carry out long range patrols in anticipation of the arrival of the remainder of the force which will have 14 EU nations contributing on the ground.

The Advance party of troops from the 97 Infantry Battalion will commence deployment in mid-April.

It is expected the 450 troops will be fully deployed in May and will be working in conjunction with approximately 60 Dutch Marines in Goz Beida.

This multinational unit will be commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Pat McDaniel. The troops are currently involved in mission specific training for their impending deployment.

Elsewhere, in Camp Clarke, Kosovo, the 220 members of the 37 Infantry Group deployed to the KFOR peacekeeping mission had a St Patrick's Day medal parade.

As is traditional overseas, Tour of Duty medals were awarded in recognition of their service in the UN mandated, NATO led peacekeeping mission.

Drawn mainly from the south of Ireland these troops will rotate home in mid-April after a six-month tour of duty.

Soldiers completing their first tour of duty also received their Peacekeepers Medal awarded by the Irish Government.

This medal was first awarded to all personnel who served overseas in 1988 as UN Peacekeepers had been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

KFOR's Multinational Task Force Centre's commander, Irish Brigadier General Gerry Hegarty, presented medals to the soldiers along with the visiting Brigadier General Pat Hayes (General Officer Commanding 1 Southern Brigade) at Camp Clarke on St Patrick's Day.

rwag

The only reason our rangers dont have desert dpms is because the government are too mean to spend the money on them. The rangers had to argue to get desert boots, the governtment were happy to send them off in boots suitable for wet irish weather. The same goes for all our vehicles tents etc..
The rangers give 110% all the time. Selection is a mentally and physically tough course and the 6 months after it are equally as tough and even after the 6 months they still turn away people who are not 110% right for the unit. Only 2 people were recruited last year, this goes to show how difficult it is to become a member. And yet the government are willing to underfund and underpay them every year..