Why Don't Irish Football Fans Support Other Countries?

Mr Alan

good point.

gimmick

Disclaimer : This is not a pro eL rant, or an anti FAI, or anti foreign football diatribe.

This is a valid question. After years of hearing the tired, boring cop out from Irish people wearing English club jersies that they don't support a local team because the standard is too poor, the facilities aint great, the organisation os amatuer etc etc etc, I just wonder why the same does not apply to the national team?

Lets look at the facts :

Ireland have not been involved in anything even approaching an exciting game in years. (Arguably since World Cup 2002. Losing to such teams as Cyprus, and heroic last minute victories over San Marino playing dreadful football. In fact, since 1987, only one manager has done anything like playing nice football, and that was Mick McCarthy, and even that was turgid most of the time.)

The FAI have relied on other organisations to help them out of the fact that they don't have a good enough stadium to host international football.

They cannot seem to appoint a new manager. (In fact this whole situation is now a farce given the latest rumour that its John Delaney, and not the 3 wise men, who was the one who approached Trappatoni, therefore making the 3 wise mens role utterly pointless.)

If an eircom league team had these sort of problems, people would be saying that they are fully justified in not supporting a club, and lets be honest about it - rightly so.


Now I know people will answer my question by saying "national pride" etc, which is a rational answer. But why the double standard then?

The_B_Man

IF u were a pool/man u/chelsea/arsenal supporter and the club started to go into turmoil, would you stop supporting them and start supporting the opposition?

Any Leeds fans on here can tell ya no!!

gimmick

Man U fans breaking away to support FC United Of Manchester?

Odd that Mr Alans reply is before my initial post. How that happen?

mike65

Your club is for life - your country is up for grabs!

Mike.

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gimmick wrote: »

Odd that Mr Alans reply is before my initial post. How that happen?

He has a time machine.

event

The_B_Man wrote: »

IF u were a pool/man u/chelsea/arsenal supporter and the club started to go into turmoil, would you stop supporting them and start supporting the opposition?

Any Leeds fans on here can tell ya no!!

thats exactly it

so things arent going great so you support someone else?

LuckyLloyd

Because Ireland are a bad team at the top level, and will remain at the top level. Therefore, they play against good teams - and a run of success (if it happens) will get them to the big show (WC, EC) and it is not completely inconceivable.

A bad eircom league club is a bad club at a bad level in a bad league. And it would take a miraculous run of success to get into the big show (champions league group stages) and it is hard to see happening soon.

Plus, people will at least remember 2002 (and 94, 90, 88 depending on how old you are). The buzz that came to the country during those tournaments and the feel good factor they created was truly spectacular. When (if ever) was the last time that a domestic league team created anything remotely similar?

Simple. If Bohs use the money correctly and identify and implement a good plan over the next 20 years things may change to some extent.

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event wrote: »

thats exactly it

so things arent going great so you support someone else?

No, I think people are missing gimmick's point tbh.

He's not saying stop support Ireland and go for someone else.

He's saying "why didn't people choose to support a different countyr, from the start"

Because the reason they give for not supporting Bohs, Cork City, Sligo Rovers etc is that the facilities are shíte, standard is piss poor, too far to get to games etc etc.

Now, surely the same applies to the Ireland team also?

Landsdowne, and previously Dalyer are hovels.

Ireland never played the most attractive football.

I'm sure there are people who travelled from god knows where in ireland to see the team playing in Dublin.

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LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When (if ever) was the last time that a domestic league team created anything remotely similar?

Have you forgotten Shelbourne already

LuckyLloyd

DesF wrote: »

Have you forgotten Shelbourne already

Des, went to all the home games for the two years they went close. It's not the same thing.

Peyton Manning

Well from my own experience, and it may apply to others, I supported the team I was first exposed to and thats Man Utd. They were playing Liverool, and because my brothers (who support Pool) were always assholes to me, I backed for United. Never looked back.

Ireland were the first national team I was exposed to - I have extremely vague memories of the 1990 World Cup but thats more due to the reactions of those around me more than the football itself - I was only 3 at the time. But having said that, I would have supported Ireland no matter what, even if they test your patience at times. That still doesnt stop me from following other countries. Ive always liked Holland (got a jersey when I was 10 or 11 and was a huge fan of Patrick Kluivert).

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LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Des, went to all the home games for the two years they went close. It's not the same thing.

Why is it not remotely similar?

You complain about domestic teams not "creating a buzz".

Shelbourne certainly created a buzz back then. Ten or twelve pages in all the tabs each day, 24,000 people watching in Landsdowne, could have been more.

That IS a buzz.

Jesus, what are your expectations?

PHB

Because I have no inherent link to any Irish football club. I have an inherent link to the national team.

Sure I could change nationality, and then maybe change team. But my local football club (which I can't think of unless you count Rovers soon to be built stadium) is not automatically a loyalty for me. As such, they have to attract me. They didn't [that said, they don't exist so thats another issue ]

LuckyLloyd

DesF wrote: »

Why is it not remotely similar?

You complain about domestic teams not "creating a buzz".

Shelbourne certainly created a buzz back then. Ten or twelve pages in all the tabs each day, 24,000 people watching in Landsdowne, could have been more.

That IS a buzz.

Jesus, what are your expectations?

Des, you can't be that stupid, right?

- was it the talk of every random you chatted to?
- were people running onto the streets cheering in your area after the Hadjuk game?
- was your local pub filled to the brim with people having a good time during the shelbourne / deportivo game?
- were people generally smiling and in a better than usual mood as you went about your business and you knew it was a direct result of the football?

Nah, your smarter than that and know they're not the same thing.

gimmick

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When (if ever) was the last time that a domestic league team created anything remotely similar?

When Cork City won the league and could have done the double in 2005, there was a massive buzz around Cork for the few weeks around it. The celebrations in the City the night of the last game of the season made the celebrations had in Cork for Liverpool winning the CL miniscule (and pathetic as well).

LuckyLloyd

gimmick wrote: »

When Cork City won the league and could have done the double in 2005, there was a massive buzz around Cork for the few weeks around it. The celebrations in the City the night of the last game of the season made the celebrations had in Cork for Liverpool winning the CL miniscule (and pathetic as well).

Ok fair enough, I'm not going to comment on what goes on in Cork. Your issue is with Cork people who support foreign clubs so. In Dublin, no team has that sort of pull.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Because Ireland are a bad team at the top level, and will remain at the top level. Therefore, they play against good teams - and a run of success (if it happens) will get them to the big show (WC, EC) and it is not completely inconceivable.

A bad eircom league club is a bad club at a bad level in a bad league. And it would take a miraculous run of success to get into the big show (champions league group stages) and it is hard to see happening soon ...

...Simple. If Bohs use the money correctly and identify and implement a good plan over the next 20 years things may change to some extent.

That's a big part of it. It's not about football, it's about spectacle - 'big show' football. Very much part of the Irish sporting psyche, because our football roots are as shallow as a television deal, and we are fodder for whatever bunch of tax-break billionaires sees a market opportunity here.

Let's get some cheerleaders in and ask health hooligan Mary Harney along.

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SectionF wrote: »

health hooligan

rofl

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

That's a big part of it. It's not about football, it's about spectacle - 'big show' football. Very much part of the Irish sporting psyche, because our football roots are as shallow as a television deal, and we are fodder for whatever bunch of tax-break billionaires sees a market opportunity here.

Let's get some cheerleaders in and ask health hooligan Mary Harney along.

Well, what do you expect? This isn't our national sport.

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LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, what do you expect? This isn't our national sport.

Get out of it now.

The Gah is the same.

Tens of thousands for the "glamour games" in Croker, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Semple and the likes in the Summer, sweet fúck all at the National League games in the Winter.

"Big Day Out" to see De Dubz three or four times a summer, when the sun is shining, and they couldn't give a shiney shíte about them the rest of the year.

It's the very same. "Were you at de match the weekend?" "Ah yeah, great craic watchin' De Hill, it was"

It's so they can say they were there. Nothing else.

homerjay2005

would have thought this is simple really for most.

i support ireland cos i was born here and i will always suport my country.
i support united cos my parents emigrated there in the early 70's for a few years and me dad was a season ticket holder. i grew up supporting united, as do my whole family.

i dont have a local team to support as eircom league is not in my area, but even if it was, the family affinity to united may have still been stronger.

im sure theres alot of irish people in a similar boat, so that should answer the question.

LuckyLloyd

DesF wrote: »

Get out of it now.

The Gah is the same.

Tens of thousands for the "glamour games" in Croker, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Semple and the likes in the Summer, sweet fúck all at the National League games in the Winter.

"Big Day Out" to see De Dubz three or four times a summer, when the sun is shining, and they couldn't give a shiney shíte about them the rest of the year.

It's the very same. "Were you at de match the weekend?" "Ah yeah, great craic watchin' De Hill, it was"

It's so they can say they were there. Nothing else.

Oops, Des, wrong again. Compare the average attendances for national league games at Parnell park with the average attendances for any Dublin EL side for league games. See what you find.

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LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oops, Des, wrong again. Compare the average attendances for national league games at Parnell park with the average attendances for any Dublin EL side for league games. See what you find.

I wasn't comparing the two, so your smartarsery is kinda foolish tbh.

Compare the average attendance at Dublin Games in the summer to national league games at parnell park, and see what YOU come up with.

Why can't Dublin attract the same crowd to league games?

Answer : Not enough glamour, no attraction, nothing to talk about on a monday morning by the water cooler, nothing to show off about.

LuckyLloyd

DesF wrote: »

I wasn't comparing the two, so your smartarsery is kinda foolish tbh.

Compare the average attendance at Dublin Games in the summer to national league games at parnell park, and see what YOU come up with.

Why can't Dublin attract the same crowd to league games?

Answer : Not enough glamour, no attraction, nothing to talk about on a monday morning by the water cooler, nothing to show off about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah - but the off peak is still a lot stronger than the EL. The point is that the roots and interest of the national sport do go much deeper than football in this country. With the exception being the national team post 1988.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, what do you expect? This isn't our national sport.

You're quite right there. It's not. I suppose GAA is, God love us.
Yet our massive sense of footballing entitlement sends us into a quite hilarious lather when our beloved boys in green don't deliver for us in this horrible non-Gaelic game.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a Leeds fan (as I always have to point out in these discussions), but at this point we are a quite pathetic bunch of footballing pygmies strutting around in our ManU, Celtic and Ireland shirts, cheering on our little counties in the summer.

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LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah -

nice counter there, I'm astounded actually.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

but the off peak is still a lot stronger than the EL.

What does that have to do with the price of cabbage? (and Gah folk eat a LOT of cabbage)

Point I was making, which you are avoiding for some reason, is that the majority of Irish people are only interested in the BIG DAY OUT.

The Gah figures prove this.

The 24,000 in Landsdowne for the Shels match prove it.

The 10,000 boxing "enthusiasts" in The Point for Bernard Dunne's title match prove this.

Can you disprove it?

Tusky

I pick a new country to support in each big tournament. Usually Spain or Holland. However, if Ireland qualified I would of course, support them. Ireland are our national side, I feel a connection to them. I do not feel a connection to any LOI club.

The point mentioned earlier is a good one. Ireland play good teams and they have a chance to play on the biggest international stages (WC, EC) which is exciting, even if they rarely qualify. LOI doesn't have that, its always going to be small scale football.

DesF wrote: »

Answer : Not enough glamour, no attraction, nothing to talk about on a monday morning by the water cooler, nothing to show off about.

Are you seriously suggesting the only reason, or the main reason even, that people go to big GAA games is to show off and to have something to talk about on a Monday morning ? That is hilarious.

Now I have no interest in GAA and dont go to any games but I would guess that the reason people go to the big games is because they enjoy it and find it entertaining ?

Dont think it has anything to do with 'showing off'.

Jazzy

because your actual country is more to you then a club.

clubs are clubs regardless of what country they are int. that just donates what league they play in. a national team is your national team because you are irish, english etc.

its not like ppl are born "Shelbournian" (DesF may argue that) but they are born Irish

Xavi6

I support Australia equally as I do Ireland as it's the country of my birth. Right now I probably support them more if truth be told. Great win tonight!

Anyway, Des is right, Ireland is littered with fair weather's no matter the sport. I went to see Shels play Sunderland in Tolka a year and a half or so ago and it was biggest crowd I'd seen there in a long time, and probably saw more Sunderland jerseys than Shels. We are a nation of that mentality.

homerjay2005

irish people in general tend to be a shower of bandwagon jumpers, it can be applied to all aspects of life, not just sport.

Tusky

Jazzy wrote: »

because your actual country is more to you then a club.

clubs are clubs regardless of what country they are int. that just donates what league they play in. a national team is your national team because you are irish, english etc.

its not like ppl are born "Shelbournian" (DesF may argue that) but they are born Irish

Exactly. Look at the amount of foreign players (Irish included) playing the in premiership. Club football has become completely international. Liverpool only have 3 regular English players. When Ireland play, every single player is Irish and they are representing the country that we live & were born in.

~Rebel~

Tusky wrote: »

I pick a new country to support in each big tournament. Usually Spain or Holland. However, if Ireland qualified I would of course, support them. Ireland are our national side, I feel a connection to them. I do not feel a connection to any LOI club.

The point mentioned earlier is a good one. Ireland play good teams and they have a chance to play on the biggest international stages (WC, EC) which is exciting. LOI doesn't have that, its always going to be small scale football.

Id agree a lot with this one too, I have an inherent connection with Ireland, couldn't support anyone else. For club football on the other hand, I didn't even know Cork city existed when i started following football. Grew up in the stix nearly an hour from turners cross and got into football through watching Liverpool on TV. Noone else in my family is very into football. Once I went to secondary school I came across eircom league fans for the first time, and since then i've gone to turners cross semi regularly, but at the same time, Liverpool will always be the club i grew up watching and fell in love with.

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

You're quite right there. It's not. I suppose GAA is, God love us.
Yet our massive sense of footballing entitlement sends us into a quite hilarious lather when our beloved boys in green don't deliver for us in this horrible non-Gaelic game.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a Leeds fan (as I always have to point out in these discussions), but at this point we are a quite pathetic bunch of footballing pygmies strutting around in our ManU, Celtic and Ireland shirts, cheering on our little counties in the summer.

DesF wrote: »

nice counter there, I'm astounded actually.


What does that have to do with the price of cabbage? (and Gah folk eat a LOT of cabbage)

Point I was making, which you are avoiding for some reason, is that the majority of Irish people are only interested in the BIG DAY OUT.

The Gah figures prove this.

The 24,000 in Landsdowne for the Shels match prove it.

The 10,000 boxing "enthusiasts" in The Point for Bernard Dunne's title match prove this.

Can you disprove it?

How is this any different to the UK?

Maybe this is the problem. We are a country with a fairly small population. As such, there will only be a percentage of that population that are truly committed to sports of some sort or another. Most people in Ireland don't really care - same as the UK. But that minority who do care over there is naturally a larger number and naturally helps to sustain football as a bigger thing.

If engerland get to a major championships the fair weather fans come along for the ride too. There really is nothing strange about the behavior of the Irish public with respect to sport. Why be so bitter about it? There will still be people wearing Utd shirts in parts of London where Scrunthorpe or Brentford or Orient are the local team. So what.

Do your part, support football how you see fit. Be happy. Life is short.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If engerland get to a major championships the fair weather fans come along for the ride too. There really is nothing strange about the behavior of the Irish public with respect to sport. Why be so bitter about it? There will still be people wearing Utd shirts in parts of London where Scrunthorpe or Brentford or Orient are the local team. So what.

Difference is though, the English actually support there local teams as well and go to games regularly. Look at attendences for League 2. Probably higher than our own top division.

Mr Alan

Jazzy wrote: »

because your actual country is more to you then a club.

speak for yourself

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Difference is though, the English actually support there local teams as well and go to games regularly. Look at attendences for League 2. Probably higher than our own top division.

Yeah, but that's just because of the large number I was talking about above. There are still plenty of unloved professional teams in the bluesquare conferences.

Mr Alan

Xavi6 wrote: »

Difference is though, the English actually support there local teams as well and go to games regularly. Look at attendences for League 2. Probably higher than our own top division.

true in the main, but there is a massive following of the big clubs from all over England.:eek:

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, but that's just because of the large number I was talking about above. There are still plenty of unloved professional teams in the bluesquare conferences.

Oh really? not according to this -

http://www.thelinnets.co.uk/turnstile.shtml

Most Blue Square teams have higher attendences than eL clubs

OhNoYouDidn't

PHB wrote: »

Because I have no inherent link to any Irish football club. I have an inherent link to the national team.

But you have an 'inherent' link to some UK plc in a city you have no connection to?

I think this is a very interesting question and cuts to the heart of the barstoolers logic (or lack thereof).

If you prefer a higher standard of ball in a better arena than the LoI offers, why arent you all Brazil or Italy fans? Its a legitimate question and one the barstoolers have failed to answer.

Much as I think the Gah are a bunch of backwards, insular, bigoted savages, could you imagine somene from Wexford deciding to follow Kerry mudwrestling or Kilkenny stickswinging? We could do with some of their local loyalty.

shane86

Can I interrupt and ask what EL has to do with the original question? It was asking why we dont support other national teams.

Id disagree. Plenty of Irish throw their support behind a foreign nationl team. At any World Cup/Euros we arent in (i.e most of them, and possibly for the foreseeable future) I usually throw my backing behind a strong team, an underdog and maybe one other (oh, and whoever England plays against ). In 06 I was backing Holland, Ghana and Australia, and in particular was delighted to see the Aussies go so far. When they were all gone I switched to France (particulrly for the final, I wanted revenge for the way they cheated the Aussies).

As for the Euros, I was nearly as disappointed to see the Scots go out at the very end in these qualifiers as I was when the Slovaks ended our campaign. Pub was full of Irish people cheering on the Scots, in fact more were there for the Scotland v Italy game than had turned up for the Ireland v Wales match earlier on.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There really is nothing strange about the behavior of the Irish public with respect to sport. ...Do your part, support football how you see fit. Be happy. Life is short.

As I've said before, it's slightly more than benign neglect. If you listen to the discourse on Irish football, read columnists, catch throwaway comments from sports hacks, and read the posts of a lot of exclusively EPL fans on message boards such as this, you will come across routine sneering and hostility towards the game in Ireland.
Even though more people in Ireland play football than any other sport, for the past few decades virtually no one has wanted to know at senior level. I think that that is changing for the better, as we grow up a bit, but the old view is still very much in evidence.

OhNoYouDidn't

shane86 wrote: »

Can I interrupt and ask what EL has to do with the original question? It was asking why we dont support other national .

...using the same logic they use to support foreign club teams!

We are all football fans, we all have teams we like in various leagues around the world. The issue is why do you not support your local league and still support your local national team. Its an illogical position and cherrypicking what bits of Irish football you support and one not seen anywhere else.

shane86

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

...using the same logic they use to support foreign club teams!

We are all football fans, we all have teams we like in various leagues around the world. The issue is why do you not support your local league and still support your local national team. Its an illogical position and cherrypicking what bits of Irish football you support and one not seen anywhere else.

It was never on tv when I was young, and seldom is now. The oul fella used to go to the odd one in the 70s and 80s I think but he never took me, so there is one reason.

I dont support any EPL club either, just like to see one or two do well. Ireland is the only team that I would follow every game from a WC q final with Brazil to a friendly against the Faroes.

LuckyLloyd

There are 15 fully professional league clubs based in the greater London area (12 - 14m).

There are 5 Eircom league clubs in Dublin working off a total population of approx 1.2m.

djpbarry

Tusky wrote: »

Ireland play good teams and they have a chance to play on the biggest international stages (WC, EC) which is exciting, even if they rarely qualify.

Everyone seems to have forgotten what English football was like pre-SKY. It was **** (remember Ayresome Park, Roker Park, etc.), yet everyone in Ireland still followed it. And what about the Scottish League? Plenty of people in Ireland follow it religiously, yet the SPL is a pretty poor league in European terms. The fact that so many Irish people follow British teams and ignore Irish teams has little to do with the quality of the football.

Tusky wrote: »

LOI doesn't have that, its always going to be small scale football.

Well, yeah, it will be if people have that attitude.

Tusky wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting the only reason, or the main reason even, that people go to big GAA games is to show off and to have something to talk about on a Monday morning ?

A lot of people go to watch the Dubs just to say they were there; a lot of people will go to the Brazil game tonight for the same reason. The point is only a minority are real fans.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

irish people in general tend to be a shower of bandwagon jumpers, it can be applied to all aspects of life, not just sport.

Very true. If an EL club qualified for the Champions League, the sales of their merchandise would go through the roof.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Most people in Ireland don't really care - same as the UK.

I don't know about that. Look at the number of people who pay a fortune for pay-per-view football in this country. Look at the number of people who regularly go to the pub to watch "big" Premiership games with their mates. Look at the number of Irish-based supporters clubs who organise regular trips to Premiership games.

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OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Much as I think the Gah are a bunch of backwards, insular, bigoted savages, could you imagine somene from Wexford deciding to follow Kerry mudwrestling or Kilkenny stickswinging? We could do with some of their local loyalty.

Your anti-Gah diatribes never fail to amuse me.

Tusky

If you prefer a higher standard of ball in a better arena than the LoI offers, why arent you all Brazil or Italy fans? Its a legitimate question and one the barstoolers have failed to answer.

I find this to be fairly silly. If Brazil played week in week out, I would watch them. I watch them whenever I can as I enjoy the football they play.

To be honest I find the whole idea behind this thread pretty strange & I would have thought that its a pretty obvious question. People are brought up watching Ireland. Their parents watch it, their fathers take them to games. There is also the excitement of a whole country getting behind the team on matchday. You support your country because they are representing YOU as an Irish citizen.

People support foreign clubs for two reasons.

1. They have much more exposure to them from a young age.
2. They play much much better football than anything our league can offer.

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Tusky wrote: »

2. They play much much better football than anything our league can offer.

*ding ding ding*

Now, here is the ultimate catch 22.

Shíte standard, Oi'm not watching that crap, but I might if it was better.

How the hell can it improve if there is no money being put into the game?

How much of the FAI's take on tonight's game will be put into football at a grassroots level in Ireland?

Jazzy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If you prefer a higher standard of ball in a better arena than the LoI offers, why arent you all Brazil or Italy fans? Its a legitimate question and one the barstoolers have failed to answer.

Jazzy wrote:

because your actual country is more to you then a club.

clubs are clubs regardless of what country they are in. that just donates what league they play in. a national team is your national team because you are irish, english etc.

its not like ppl are born "Shelbournian" (DesF may argue that) but they are born Irish

that good enough for ya?



probably not cos im just a "barstooler".
god, ur so much more football then me

BaZmO*

It's simple, just look at your passport to see what country you should be supporting.

Thinly disguised "EL vs. The World" rant tbh.