Affordable Housing Scheme - Renting

U2-3

Is it possible to rent a property under the afforable housing sceheme if you have being living in it for a couple of years. Circumstances have changed and am looking to change jobs, to the far sde of Dublin. Is it possible to rent my property under the afforable housing scheme and rent else where? or even if i were to travel for a year or so?

What are the consequence of renting my property if it has been purchased under the affordable housing scheme?

connundrum

From Fingal Co Co:

It is a condition of the Affordable Housing Scheme that, for a period of 20 years from the date of purchase, you occupy the dwelling as your principal private place of residence. Therefore you cannot rent out the entire property.

You may however avail of the Rent a Room Scheme - where a room (or rooms) in a persons principal private residence is let as residential accommodation.,

For further information, please click on the website below:

www.revenue.ie

starky

U2-3 wrote: »

Is it possible to rent a property under the afforable housing sceheme if you have being living in it for a couple of years. Circumstances have changed and am looking to change jobs, to the far sde of Dublin. Is it possible to rent my property under the afforable housing scheme and rent else where? or even if i were to travel for a year or so?

What are the consequence of renting my property if it has been purchased under the affordable housing scheme?

I think I upset the good folks over on askaboutmoney.com discussing this very topic! I have never seen a thread closed so quick in my life. ;-)

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=73706
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=73714

I think is fairly clear that you must have the Affordable House as your PPR for the entire of the 20 year period.

While people’s circumstances change sometimes it would seem the only way to officially make the AH unit “Rentable” would be to pay the claw back.

What I was saying was that if I wanted to take a career break in a few years and travel the world for a year then surely leaving a room let out in the place under the rent a room scheme to help cover the mortgage would be ok?
Or for example if you had to look after a sick relative for a few months, or if like me you work in IT and you are sent on a contract abroad for short periods of time then would it be ok to still rent out a room to help cover the mortgage?
I was never suggesting that I would want have a second PPR, just that you may be out of the country from time to time over the years of the AH claw back period and that I thought letting a room if you were away for a while would seem ok to me. But every one started going a bit nuts thinking I was trying to scam AH. So a moderator closed the thread. :-(

I will be asking questions about all of this before I sign any contacts. Its an interesting point I think.

However to answer your original question if you rent out your AH and move your PPR to another address in the sate then as far as I know you will be breaking the AH agreement with the council. If you try to let out the full property then you would have to register with the PTRB and it would eventually come to light that this was an AH unit. There would be legal and tax repercussions I am sure.

astrofool

If you go on holiday for a year, the house is still your PPR surely.

gurramok

astrofool wrote: »

If you go on holiday for a year, the house is still your PPR surely.

Yes, as long as its empty OR somebody is living there under rent-a-room scheme

starky

gurramok wrote: »

Yes, as long as its empty OR somebody is living there under rent-a-room scheme

That’s kind of what I thought. As long as you are not attempting to fully rent it out, change your PPR or generally make money out of it, you are still operating with in the spirit of the scheme. I Still will be getting my solicitor to go through the contracts with a fine tooth comb before I sign and close, just to make sure that these and other issues that I have are provided for.

I reckon I will need a career break after paying out for a mortgage in five years or so, even if I am getting it at a discount, its still going to be a good 45% of my monthly income …

jdivision

That' ridiculously high. You must be mortgaged to the hilt. Have you taken mortgage interest relief into account when you say the 45 per cent?

starky

jdivision wrote: »

That' ridiculously high. You must be mortgaged to the hilt. Have you taken mortgage interest relief into account when you say the 45 per cent?

Yea, it may be nearer to 40 I suppose. I am only a few years out of college so I am still on a lowish wage. I would hope that it will go up over time. And I can always rent out the spare room if I can’t manage it, but I’d want to avoid that if possible :-). I am still getting a 50% discount so it’s a fairly good deal to be honest, the mortgage should be double what I will actually paying. I reckon I will be annoying my employer for some extra cash after a few months of paying the mortgage ;-)

jdivision

I would rent the room if I was you. Know it's not the ideal thing but you've got to remember management charges, ntl, gas, electricity, contents insurance etc on top of the mortage. That's a lot every month. You're young, you need some quality of life

Victor

Your best bet is the Rent-a-Room scheme. €10,000 per year tax-free.

colsku

If you are sent abroad by your employer, you still retain your PPR status under revenue rules, so long as you lived there before and after this period of work.

I have a scandinavian girlfriend and would jump at the chance to move to her home town if I could get a job there and as my employer has offices there this is a real possiblity.

What would happen if I got the chance to work there, but still owned my affordable home?

I would still retain my PPR status and I could defo still rent out a room, but could I rent out the whole apartment legitimately for the period that I worked abroad?

Basically the question for me is:

Can one rent out their whole apartment bought on the affordable housing, while they are deemed to be living there, but actually living abroad?

antodeco

Whats the situation on the rent-a-room scheme? Is it basically you charge rent and give it to the council and they give you 10k off? My thinking is that if you had a mate who was stuck for a few months and he paid you money to live there, would that not be someway illegal?

jdivision

No the lodger pays you to rent a room in your apartment. Like a tenant but without a tenancy agreement and the rights you have therein. The council are in no way involved

Victor

colsku wrote: »

Can one rent out their whole apartment bought on the affordable housing, while they are deemed to be living there, but actually living abroad?

Generally no. However, you could speak to your solicitor / accountant to see if there is an option that suits your situation. If you are sent abroad you can certainly get some expenses tax free.

antodeco

jdivision wrote: »

No the lodger pays you to rent a room in your apartment. Like a tenant but without a tenancy agreement and the rights you have therein. The council are in no way involved

Hmm, seems very under-handed to me! Its good to know though

jellybeans

hi did anyone get to the bottom of this yet? Im just after posting the same over in askaboutmoney too and now I feel like a dirty rotten thief!! dis anyone ask the council? I am hoping to go traveling but would never risk losing my home for it

starky

jellybeans wrote: »

hi did anyone get to the bottom of this yet? Im just after posting the same over in askaboutmoney too and now I feel like a dirty rotten thief!! dis anyone ask the council? I am hoping to go traveling but would never risk losing my home for it

Don’t worry about it too much, from what I can tell AAM is heavily monitored and you are not free to discuss anything on there like you are on boards. I have been reading this forum for years and I am fully aware of the mechanics behind the censorship that goes on over there.
Now to get back to your point, there is so much confusion around this area, and I don’t think you are ever likely to find an answer to your question either here or on AAM. My best advice now would be to either go back to your original solicitor or hire a new one, and get them to look through your contracts for the answer.
You have to remember you are always going to get a lash back when you post around renting affordable housing as, lets face it people think you are trying to fiddle the system. These people, many of them heavily invested in the property market basically have a problem with the likes of you and me getting a cheap place to live. They are not interested in the legitimate reasons we may have for needing to relocate for some reason, they just don’t care. All they say is like it lump it, and you knew what you were getting into, and so on. If you ask me it is total sour grapes. Let them say what they like I for one don’t really care.
What matters is that you don’t break the law, get your self into a sticky legal situation with the council who co own your property, or get into any trouble with the revenue. You have every right to ask this question, you are not trying to fiddle the system, you have a legitimate question and you should not be made to feel like a thief. I will make a point of eventually posting the can’s and cant’s of renting AH as and when I find them out.

RuailleBuaille

I rent a room in a house that my landlord got under the Affordable Housing. My landlord does not live with us, never has from the start. I know she's breaking the rules but I doubt she's alone in that.

jdivision

Are all the bedrooms used? If so you should report her. There's been a number of people ordered to move in or pay back the clawback and this should happen here.

RuailleBuaille

jdivision wrote: »

Are all the bedrooms used? If so you should report her. There's been a number of people ordered to move in or pay back the clawback and this should happen here.

But then I'd have to live with her! :eek:

jdivision

She wouldn't know you reported her, you can do it anonymously so it could be a neighbour etc. They'll get an inspector to ring her and ask why she's not living there. Honestly it's not right that somebody's doing that, she shouldn't have taken the house and the discount should be taken back. She's not charging you less than the market rent I take it so why should she get an investment property for 25-50 per cent below the going rate. To me it's fraud

brownboots

how come noone seems to know the answer to the consequences of renting out an affordable home. if it was such a big deal and fraud and all that wouldnt people know more about it. there doesnt seem to be any answers and it is such a grey area. if it was important to the coucil youd think they'd make abigger deal out of it. i have never heard of anyone getting caught renting their affordable home. theres no answers in black and white and thats keeping everyone in fear of doing it thats the way their working it!!

jdivision

There have been people caught and there are consequences and yes it's a big deal

The_Conductor

According to SDCC and DCC- once the affordable house is no longer your place of principle residence, the clawback, as specified in your lease, becomes due to the council and must be paid within a specified period of time. This is however contrary to information given to one Boards member by Galway City Council, and another by Fingal.

Regarding renting the property out- it would have to legally registered with the PRTB, and would be included in their register of rented properties. You can be certain that this register will be periodically checked against other databases, particularly with the Revenue Commissioners desperate to try to mop up any lost taxes with the slowdown in the economy.

If the house is less than 2 years of age (after the 7/12/07) or 5 years of age previous to the 7/12/07, then not only is the council clawback an issue- but its entirely possible that stampduty on the original purchase may be revisited by the Revenue Commissioners, and the original purchase may treated as an investment property, and stamp duty recalculated on a pro-rata basis, for the window of time in which the property was not your PPR.

You need to get a copy of the contract you signed with the council (whichever council that may be) examined by a solicitor immediately to ensure that you are not breaking the terms and conditions of the scheme. Make sure they are uptospeed on property law, and query the stamp duty element of this too- if relevant.

rikki2

smccarrick wrote: »

According to SDCC and DCC- once the affordable house is no longer your place of principle residence, the clawback, as specified in your lease, becomes due to the council and must be paid within a specified period of time. This is however contrary to information given to one Boards member by Galway City Council, and another by Fingal.

Regarding renting the property out- it would have to legally registered with the PRTB, and would be included in their register of rented properties. You can be certain that this register will be periodically checked against other databases, particularly with the Revenue Commissioners desperate to try to mop up any lost taxes with the slowdown in the economy.

If the house is less than 2 years of age (after the 7/12/07) or 5 years of age previous to the 7/12/07, then not only is the council clawback an issue- but its entirely possible that stampduty on the original purchase may be revisited by the Revenue Commissioners, and the original purchase may treated as an investment property, and stamp duty recalculated on a pro-rata basis, for the window of time in which the property was not your PPR.

You need to get a copy of the contract you signed with the council (whichever council that may be) examined by a solicitor immediately to ensure that you are not breaking the terms and conditions of the scheme. Make sure they are uptospeed on property law, and query the stamp duty element of this too- if relevant.

Who are you working for?

The_Conductor

rikki2 wrote: »

Who are you working for?

Sorry- what do you mean? I'm the co-moderator of this forum. I don't work for the Revenue Commissioners or any of the county councils.......???

Sandy2004

i asked the council, if i wanted to go travelling for a year, could I - they said you can ask and it will be decided.. but should be no problem.... things could have changed since then....... no harm in asking.........

jackal

This highlights two big problems with the AH scheme.

On the one hand you have got people like the OP who have somehow managed to find themselves the owner of an Affordable Home, with no bloody clue what the terms and conditions attached to it are. Did you not have a grasp of the most basic aim of Affordable Housing - to provide the opportunity to OWN a home which you buy below the market price? Did they not go through this with you? Its a home, that you are supposed to live in. Its not a helping hand into building a pension for yourself through property investment.

The second problem highlighted by one of the other posters, renting in an AH which is clearly not the Landlords PPR is that plenty of people purchasing AH's see it as a cute-hoor way to let the taxpayer fund their adventures in Property Investment.

It makes me sick when I hear it, and I have heard it from every AH owner I have talked to.

"Ah sure in a few years I will buy a real house and rent out this apartment".

I really really hope the revenue commissioners put their new-found spare time to good work and round up all these cowboys who take an affordable home off the list for people that want homes, only to rent them out with a favorably low LTV rate and lower mortgage repayments.

Your Airbag

It makes me sick when I hear it, and I have heard it from every AH owner I have talked to.
"Ah sure in a few years I will buy a real house and rent out this apartment".

What about those AH owners who want to move abroad or to a different city to work for a few years but don't want to give up there property and end up back to square one?

Circumstances change from when a contract is signed and I think its very unfair for people to be tied so strictly to a contract which is effectively a form of restraining order which means they cant move from a housing estate.

To hamper possible opportunities for people to earn a larger income in an recession by tieing them to one location is completely wrong in my opinion as AH owners like myself took this option because of poor financial circumstances in the first place and now we are blocked from improving our situation.

Its an unreasonable stance and the councils should be more flexible, last year I was offered a job in London, a job that my previous 8 years employment (before I was laid off) made me very qualified for. At the time my present job was a weekend shift, I was making barley enough to coverage the mortgage and had no disposable income, it was a depressing situation.

I called the council to enquire about renting out the house just to cover the mortgage whilst I worked abroad, making a profit was of no interest to me but holding onto my property was but I got a thumbs down from the council and had to pass up a very good job, it really got me down.

And by the way those of us on the AH scheme are means tested so its not like we are on easy street with our mortgages, trying working only weekends and having not enough money to even rent a dvd at the end of the month and then getting laid off from that job also.

It makes me sick to listen to guys like the last poster who thinks he has it tougher than everyone else and then generlaise that all AH owners act the same.

Dandelion6

jdivision wrote: »

There's been a number of people ordered to move in or pay back the clawback

Given the sharp drop in property prices since this post was made I wonder what the consequences now would be. A lot of AH that was bought in recent years would no longer be subject to a clawback if it was resold because the value of the property would be below what was originally paid for it. What other means do the Councils have of enforcing the PPR? I see above there's a suggestion that stamp duty may have to be paid but what else can they do.

PK2008

Im very interested in this scheme but my only concern is that my job may want to send me abroad for long periods of time.

What would happen in such a case?