English Premier League Have Another Stupid Idea

LuckyLloyd

Mr Alan wrote: »

This idea just shows that the PL just doesnt care about the people that it should. The fans. its their club, Not people in Beijing or Saudi etc, but the people who go to the game week in week out, the real fans of the clubs.

When they say "the english market is over-saturated", read that as, "we've run out of ways to fleece our local fans, lets go elsewhere and fleece them".

If this happens, the amount of games played abroad will increase every second year, the PL is the ENGLISH league, it will cease to be that if this idea goes ahead. Its a ridiculous idea. And in my opinion, anyone who thinks its a good idea, is in favour of ruining football.

If this happens, it wont be long before these games go PPV, then sure they'll probably break it up into 4 quarters to maximise money made from advertising,then we'll have cheerleaders at all the grounds, sure why not move Liverpool and base the club in Dubai? or California? 6 months of the year maybe? maximise revenues further?!

all a load of ****ing **** cockology.

The people who own these clubs are the fans who go every week, us foreign fans and day trippers are visitors to their club, and should treat it as such, now the PL is looking to take it off them and give it to the highest bidder once a year like some sort of whore.

the whole idea is ****ing disgusting.

DesF wrote: »

Legendary post.

Absolutely spot on.

Fair play Alan.

TO THE BARRICADES!! Stirring stuff. But the key point is incorrect. The fans don't own the clubs.

- They don't own Man Utd;
- They don't own Liverpool;
- They don't own Chelsea;
- They don't own Aston Villa;
- They don't own Fulham;
- They don't own...;

Now, think about the type of people who DO own those clubs and you should realise that business will ultimately be business at the end of the day.

LuckyLloyd

Villain wrote: »

TBH you have a point to some degree however the REAL fans as you call them want success and in the modern era that isn't possible without large sums of money, now if you were to only generate cash from REAL fans their club would fall into debt and be unable to compete. So I'm afraid the definiton of real fans while true in the sense as they support the team at games, the foreign fans are the ones generating the majority of money through televison viewing and subscriptions which is what clubs are relying on to buy players and pay for wages etc.

Yep. nail on the actual head.

~Rebel~

Villain wrote: »

TBH you have a point to some degree however the REAL fans as you call them want success and in the modern era that isn't possible without large sums of money, now if you were to only generate cash from REAL fans their club would fall into debt and be unable to compete. So I'm afraid the definiton of real fans while true in the sense as they support the team at games, the foreign fans are the ones generating the majority of money through televison viewing and subscriptions which is what clubs are relying on to buy players and pay for wages etc.

I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make though. We had the massive influx of tv money this season, the result being that prices just went up.

Mitch Connor

Villain wrote: »

TBH you have a point to some degree however the REAL fans as you call them want success and in the modern era that isn't possible without large sums of money, now if you were to only generate cash from REAL fans their club would fall into debt and be unable to compete. So I'm afraid the definiton of real fans while true in the sense as they support the team at games, the foreign fans are the ones generating the majority of money through televison viewing and subscriptions which is what clubs are relying on to buy players and pay for wages etc.

You point is correct, but only correct because football is a disgusting and bloated sport when you really look at it.

Is there any good reason why any club should ever spend millions on any player? Is there any good reason why players can be paid over 7million per season. The average premiership player probably earns more in a week then i do in a month - that is sickening. Compare teh average wage of a footballer in any top league to the national average wage of that league's country.

If there was sanity in football and most pro sports in general, the teams wouldn't need to be making hunders of millions every year just to pull in a small profit and be able to compete. In reality, a 77,000 seater stadium like Old Trafford, with an average ticket price of £20 (I know this isn't the average price, i am reducing it for my point) will pull in a little short of 40million in a season. Add in TV revenue, because that will always be there and you're reaching a figure that a club SHOULD be able to survive on without further fleecing the fans or selling out the concept of a league and buggering off to the far east - and still be able to compete.

that they can't is down to greed.

mike65

Tauren you must be on damned good wage! Average prem weekly pay packet is about 20 grand.

Mike.

DSB

Jazzy wrote: »

yeah, massively funny.

i dunno, DesF didnt respond to me anyhow.... wat was it again? "smells like victory" or something like that

The reason people don't respond to you isn't because they've been bowled over by your excellent arguments. The reason people don't respond to you is because the posts come off as being written as the annoying drunk girl at a party. The more you acknowledge her, the more you encourage her.

Mr Alan

I like drunk girls at parties

~Rebel~

Mr Alan wrote: »

I like drunk girls at parties

Alan, meet Jazzy, Jazzy, this is Alan. Ill leave you two to get to know each other a little better.

DSB

Touché;)

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

I like drunk girls at parties

So do I tbh.

Jazzy

didnt know u were still that bitter

~Rebel~

DesF wrote: »

So do I tbh.

I smell a disturbing 3some...

_blank_

Jazzy wrote: »

didnt know u were still that bitter

wtf?

Jazzy

DesF wrote: »

wtf?

not u, DSB

Mr Alan

this thread has taken a strange/somewhat sinister turn

~Rebel~

Mr Alan wrote: »

this thread has taken a strange/somewhat sinister turn

agreed.

OT; EPL Boourns!

Mr Alan

on topic: Lucky Llyod/Villian.....saying that football is now a business and the fans have no say does not damage my point, in fact, it strenghtens it. just because something is the way it is, doesnt make that right. football has been bolloxed for quite some time, but this would bring it onto a whole new level of ****dness, and personally, i think that'd be the final straw for me.

and Villian, the majority of fans do not want success "at any price", maybe the majority of "barstool fans" do (i hate that term,i like barstools!)-but the fans who go to the game dont, they want the clubs and game they love back.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

on topic: Lucky Llyod/Villian.....saying that football is now a business and the fans have no say does not damage my point, in fact, it strenghtens it. just because something is the way it is, doesnt make that right. football has been bolloxed for quite some time, but this would bring it onto a whole new level of ****dness, and personally, i think that'd be the final straw for me.

Not all football.

You can still go to your local greenery and see hundreds of lads playing football for the love of it.

Not even all professional football imo.

Mr Alan wrote: »

and Villian, the majority of fans do not want success "at any price", maybe the majority of "barstool fans" do (i hate that term,i like barstools!)-but the fans who go to the game dont, they want the clubs and game they love back.

Barsrtoolers, not Barstool Fans. Get the terminology right at least, please.

~Rebel~

Wouldn't it be wonderful for FIFA+UEFA to come in and impose spending and wage limits (still huge figures, but not as retarded as they are), level the playing field somewhat, and have all the money floating around in the game pumped back into grassroots and development programs for lesser countries (such as ourselves).

Mr Alan

DesF wrote: »

Not all football.

You can still go to your local greenery and see hundreds of lads playing football for the love of it

hence thats why i go watch the senior howth Celtic team play occassionally, they dont stop me cursing there, or standing (no seats!) or drinking Bulmers on the sideline!:cool:

LuckyLloyd

Mr Alan wrote: »

on topic: Lucky Llyod/Villian.....saying that football is now a business and the fans have no say does not damage my point, in fact, it strenghtens it. just because something is the way it is, doesnt make that right. football has been bolloxed for quite some time, but this would bring it onto a whole new level of ****dness, and personally, i think that'd be the final straw for me.

and Villian, the majority of fans do not want success "at any price", maybe the majority of "barstool fans" do (i hate that term,i like barstools!)-but the fans who go to the game dont, they want the clubs and game they love back.

There are plenty of things that are "wrong" in this world but will continue to be like that. What does the "final straw" for you entail? Will you stop going to the other 19 home games in Anfield a season? Will you not buy the replica jersey next season? Will you do away with your sky sports subscription? Will you take part in a public protest for every home game until the policy decision is reversed / modified to your satisfaction?

Or will you just whine about it some more on an internet forum? But this time using STRONG language?

LuckyLloyd

DesF wrote: »

Not all football.

You can still go to your local greenery and see hundreds of lads playing football for the love of it.

But the coaches in the DDSL will be telling them to play it long, keep it tight and kick the talented opposition players off the pitch so that they win at all costs. Love of the game or love of winning?

Mr Alan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There are plenty of things that are "wrong" in this world but will continue to be like that. What does the "final straw" for you entail? Will you stop going to the other 19 home games in Anfield a season? Will you not buy the replica jersey next season? Will you do away with your sky sports subscription? Will you take part in a public protest for every home game until the policy decision is reversed / modified to your satisfaction?

Or will you just whine about it some more on an internet forum? But this time using STRONG language?

i'd imagine if the final straw ever breaks I'll stop supporting Liverpool

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

on topic: Lucky Llyod/Villian.....saying that football is now a business and the fans have no say does not damage my point, in fact, it strenghtens it. just because something is the way it is, doesnt make that right. football has been bolloxed for quite some time, but this would bring it onto a whole new level of ****dness, and personally, i think that'd be the final straw for me.

The problem is your point falls flat on its behind once you agree that soccer has gone the way most old fans don't like but yet all the major stadiums are sold out every week, more jerseys are sold every year, hardly seems to me like the "REAL" fans don't like what they seeing and paying to see, surely if the real fans are so against the way soccer has gone they wouldn't go to games or buy jerseys etc?

Mr Alan wrote: »

and Villian, the majority of fans do not want success "at any price", maybe the majority of "barstool fans" do (i hate that term,i like barstools!)-but the fans who go to the game dont, they want the clubs and game they love back.

You have a point I mean Leeds are a good example they can still get large numbers each week despite bein down the divisions but if they stay down there for a few more years I think that will dwindle, fans want success they will stick with their team through bad times but they want to win trophies thats the only aim when a team takes to the field in a professional game and well if you want to win you have to compete others and not everyone is going to have a Russian willing to throw money away so other clubs need to look at other ways of getting money, I mean I see Keano supports the idea probably because for Sunderland to compete with even the top half of the table they need big money.

Your right the game has sold its soul and that will never be gotten back but then again I don't know if United's real fans who have watched their team dominate the past 15 years would want it to be any different, they can laugh at the prawn sandwich brigade and give out about their team playing in china but once they win the trophies they are happy!

Mr Alan

Villain wrote: »

You have a point I mean Leeds are a good example they can still get large numbers each week despite bein down the divisions but if they stay down there for a few more years I think that will dwindle, fans want success

Actually, i dont agree, a lot of local leeds fans are loving their exile, atmosphere is meant to be absolutely cracking at the stadium most of the time,fans having the time of their lives at games as they dont have to put up with the ****e that big PL clubs do.

~Rebel~

Football365's opinion on this;

Quite frankly, we think the Premier League should stick this idea up their bollix. We don't have to explain why - we all know it goes against everything that is fair and legitimate - and we'll make no apology for going all Daily Mail on your asses and saying this is so far beyond the pale that the pale is just a tiny blip on the horizon.

They're also encouraging fans to print out these and wave them around at this weekends games

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_3120402,00.html

LuckyLloyd

Fight Da Powah!!

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

Actually, i dont agree, a lot of local leeds fans are loving their exile, atmosphere is meant to be absolutely cracking at the stadium most of the time,fans having the time of their lives at games as they dont have to put up with the ****e that big PL clubs do.

Get a grip, any Leeds fan wants to be back in the Premier League they might enjoy the atmosphere of the lower leagues home games but they want to be back in the premier league.

Mr Alan

But as soon as they are, they'll be moaning about the daytrippers, increased stewarding etc etc etc

Villain

But they will also be watching some of the best teams in Europe play, its a toss up but I think 90% of fans would rather see their team play in the Premier League than the lower divisions actually probably 95% imo

Mr Alan

But, by the time Leeds reach the PL, if this proposition has its way, Leeds will be playing all over the world in the PL, and the same people who are watching them now week in week out, wont be able to see their games

its just an awful awful idea.

_blank_

rofl.

I just heard Keano on the Beeb talking about this.

he said "maybe in three or four years Sunderland will be in the top four or five"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D:D:D:D:D:D

denashpot

i think its a joke of an idea. everyone in soccer moans bout to many games been played and then they come up with an idiotic idea like this. :mad: the only game croker will get would be fulham and derby. the big clubs be heading for asia i say and 1 of the rules they came up with is that the big clubs will never play each other!!

Mr Alan

sure did ya not hear Des? when Richardson joined them this year he was asked their goal for the year and said to get Champions League football. they genuinely think there that they're real contenders.

i will cry with joy if they get relegated.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

i will cry with joy if they get relegated.

wtf.

Something wrong with this forum today.

I keep agreeing with Alan

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

But, by the time Leeds reach the PL, if this proposition has its way, Leeds will be playing all over the world in the PL, and the same people who are watching them now week in week out, wont be able to see their games

its just an awful awful idea.

Ah here seriously stop dramatising the bloody thing, its one game per team, leeds fans would miss one game out of 39 league games not to mention league cup and FA cup games.

Do you HONESTLY believe that Leeds fans would rather be in the 3rd division than play in the Premier League and have to play ONE game at an international venue?

Mr Alan

Villain wrote: »

Ah here seriously stop dramatising the bloody thing, its one game per team, leeds fans would miss one game out of 39 league games not to mention league cup and FA cup games.

its one game per season in the first year. if thats a massive success, and the PL wants to maximise money, what do you think will happen then?

for the record; do you think this is a good idea? or are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

its one game per season in the first year. if thats a massive success, and the PL wants to maximise money, what do you think will happen then?

for the record; do you think this is a good idea? or are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

I never argue for the sake of it and hey its not an argument its a nice civil discussion

I don't agree with it, I think that its a bad idea but I can see the way soccer is gone and how English teams have to spend big to match other European teams and get the best players from all over the world and I can see that huge huge money is coming into the english game and clubs from abroad and teams will want to make the most they can and its only one game.

I proposed the alternative idea of a cup competition just between premier leagues which would be a good compromise imo.

Paul Tergat

Mr Alan wrote: »

This idea just shows that the PL just doesnt care about the people that it should. The fans. its their club, Not people in Beijing or Saudi etc, but the people who go to the game week in week out, the real fans of the clubs.

When they say "the english market is over-saturated", read that as, "we've run out of ways to fleece our local fans, lets go elsewhere and fleece them".

If this happens, the amount of games played abroad will increase every second year, the PL is the ENGLISH league, it will cease to be that if this idea goes ahead. Its a ridiculous idea. And in my opinion, anyone who thinks its a good idea, is in favour of ruining football.

If this happens, it wont be long before these games go PPV, then sure they'll probably break it up into 4 quarters to maximise money made from advertising, then we'll have cheerleaders at all the grounds, sure why not move Liverpool and base the club in Dubai? or California? 6 months of the year maybe? maximise revenues further?!

all a load of ****ing **** cockology.

The people who own these clubs are the fans who go every week, us foreign fans and day trippers are visitors to their club, and should treat it as such, now the PL is looking to take it off them and give it to the highest bidder once a year like some sort of whore.

the whole idea is ****ing disgusting.

Great Post Mr Alan.

Paul Tergat

Villain wrote: »

So I'm afraid the definiton of real fans while true in the sense as they support the team at games, the foreign fans are the ones generating the majority of money through televison viewing and subscriptions which is what clubs are relying on to buy players and pay for wages etc.

and i reckon it should stay this way.

what annoys me is that when i first came over for college there were many games over here shown at 3 o clock on a saturday which are not available at home...now i understand that this is to encourage people to go to the games rather than watch them on TV but it means that the fans of the teams (those who support a club in their own country - an argument im not going to get into by the way) can't watch their own team if they cant get a ticket but someone in Asia somewhere gets to watch them. it's just something that really pisses me off. the premiership over here is on before football first, and in England we used to have to wait until MOTD to even see the goals from OUR OWN LEAGUE. i know the way that football is going and i dont want an argument on this, just something that has pissed me off for a while!

keep the English league in England.


if i want to watch Barca play in the La Liga i have to go to Spain.
if i want to watch Milan play in Serie A i have to go to Italy. etc etc

keep it that way!

Villain

Quick question do people who think this is a bad idea agree that there should be a limit set on how many foreign players allowed play in an english club team?

_blank_

Villain wrote: »

Quick question do people who think this is a bad idea agree that there should be a limit set on how many foreign players allowed play in an english club team?

Erm, no. That's a completely different thing, and goes against basic human rights as regards place of work etc etc.

The English Premier League should be played in England. The Serie A should be played in Italy. The La Liga should be played in Spain.

The ONLY people who this doesn't affect negatively are people who don't bother there arse going to games of the team they support.

They cannot understand the mentality of the matchgoing supporter, and NEVER will if they don't go to matches themselves.

And I'm not talking about one or two day-trips a season fans either.

I'm talking about the people who go week-in week-out to see the club they grew up supporting, they grew up going to matches, regularly.

Why should these people lose out on their experience just so some "poor" asian on the other side of the planet can get to see their "hero" in the flesh. Why should the ordinary joe from Liverpool, or Manchester, or London or Reading or Newcastle or wherever the hell else miss their match.

Will the season ticket cover the cost of attending this game?

Will it fúck.

homerjay2005

DesF wrote: »

Will the season ticket cover the cost of attending this game?

Will it fúck.

whats that about desmond, what are you trying to say here? season tickets only cover home league games, this is not a home game, its a game played at a neutral venue. silly question and pointless argument really.

leninbenjamin

Mr Alan wrote: »

its one game per season in the first year. if thats a massive success, and the PL wants to maximise money, what do you think will happen then?

that would never happen. Ultimately the league will always need it's domestic market, and while they may not treat them well at a lot of times i don't think any of the clubs would dare abandon their domestic fans outright. besides the revenues being touted for this hinge on the fact they are of limited supply, otherwise they would end up saturating the foreign market just like they have at home.

this isn't a case of them trying to relocate the league to more lucrative waters as some seem to be suggesting, but rather it's a promotional gimmick to raise the international profile of the teams and attract new fans. in fact the fact they are proposing the introduction of extra games rather than relocating the existing fixtures is testimony to the fact they can't do without their domestic fans. it's merely a case of them building on what they've already got.

Mr Alan

leninbenjamin wrote: »

that would never happen.

10 years ago, people would've laughed at the never idea of this and said "that'll never happen"

20 years ago people would have laughed at the idea of television companies dictating the starting times of games.

I'm telling you, if there is more money to be made from the PL whoring itself around the world, they will do it.

growler

I'm starting to think that the clubs don't really want the normal (including the odd 300lb oik) at football games anymore, they've made going to football so sanitised in the last 15 years with their, no standing, no smoking, no swearing, no flags, bloody rules that they have happily managed to price the working class out of the premiership and attract plenty of celebrity spotting part time "fans" who will happily fork out £150 for a corporate seat and not cause any bother.

moving games to foreign climes will save them having to: man turnstiles, sell pies, clean up, have cops and stewards. If it starts with one game it will soon become more, and then with the pressures of flying all over the league will change to maybe 15, or 10 teams or turn into a euro super league in a few years.

Its very disheartening, though not in the least surprising, that those of us who fork out a large amount each season to watch our team, are held in such low esteem.

of course a sudden resurgence in hooligans woudl soon put a stop to all this. What division are Leeds in again?

OPENROAD

Villain wrote: »

Ah here seriously stop dramatising the bloody thing, its one game per team, leeds fans would miss one game out of 39 league games not to mention league cup and FA cup games.

Do you HONESTLY believe that Leeds fans would rather be in the 3rd division than play in the Premier League and have to play ONE game at an international venue?

OK as a villa fan you won't mind having to play Arsenal three times while your nearest rival will have to play say Derby three times.

herbieflowers

will the games actual be competitive though? As in count towards the League points total? I heard somewhere that it'll be more like a friendly, probably wrong by the looks of things here...

OPENROAD

herbieflowers wrote: »

will the games actual be competitive though? As in count towards the League points total? I heard somewhere that it'll be more like a friendly, probably wrong by the looks of things here...

I believe they will count towards the league which means that say if you have two teams that could be relegated one could play Arsenal and the other might get someone like Newcastle, hardly fair, though I know they have it in Scotland.

I am very surprised by Arsene Wengers response to it, I would have tought he would be against it, lets face it these matches are not going to be played in say Paris or Dublin, they will be going half way around the world,players will come back tired. I honestly don't think this will get the go ahead.

Gavin "shels"