Owing money to management company

mel123

Whatever happened, dont know weather Mgt Co gave solicitor wrong amount, or Solicitor asked me for wrong amount, but a couple of months after selling the solicitor gives me a call and said the mgt fee outstanding when we were selling was miscalculated, and that we owed 200 euro.
I couldnt stand the mgt co when we were living there, but always paid my bills on time. But do i really have to pay this now? Obviously my solicitor is trying to tell me i do, and giving me waffle that they will add interest on, but can i get away with telling them 'tough'??

How Strange

mel123 wrote: »

Whatever happened, dont know weather Mgt Co gave solicitor wrong amount, or Solicitor asked me for wrong amount, but a couple of months after selling the solicitor gives me a call and said the mgt fee outstanding when we were selling was miscalculated, and that we owed 200 euro.

Tough sh1t for the mgt co or the new owner. Did the mgt co give you a figure in writing. If so its their mistake and they take the hit.

do i really have to pay this now? Obviously my solicitor is trying to tell me i do, and giving me waffle that they will add interest on, but can i get away with telling them 'tough'??

No, you don't own the property anymore so you discharged all debts when you sold. The poor new owner has taken on this debt along with the property.

Your solicitor is talking bulhsh1t. I've seen this happen so many times.
Bottom line, not your apartment so not your problem.

Paulw

Interesting situation. I'm sure your solicitor should have the details in writing of how much you owed, up to the time you sold the property.

After that, once the sale is completed, you no longer are liable for any fees due on the property.

Your solicitor should know better.

mel123

Thanks a lot guys...i just emailed my solicitor and told her i was not paying it, and if they have any problems they can contact me directly - she is really annoying me at this stage for it. Have a feeling it could be her mistake, and thats why she is at me so much. I never saw in writing what it was, when we were asked for the final cheque i did think the amount was lower than what i calculated, and never thought about it since.

Victor

What does the contract for the sale of the property say?

Often they have a section saying the vendor is liable for all amounts up to moving out and then its the buyer. You might be stuck with it.

jubi lee

it's not up to you to calulate how much you owe... thats up to your solicitor. looks like she forgot to check the proper amount or she forgot to take it out of your final cheque. her problem not yours....

How Strange

Victor wrote: »

What does the contract for the sale of the property say?

Often they have a section saying the vendor is liable for all amounts up to moving out and then its the buyer. You might be stuck with it.

It's actually the responsibility of the buyer to ensure that their solicitor follows it through and finds out exactly what is owed up to and including the date of sale. The OP seems to have acted in good faith on his part and discharged his debt up to the date of sale but the buyers solicitor should've known how much was outstanding when the contract is being signed and made sure the cheque was handed over.

In this situation I'd say the OP's solicitor f*cked up and that is why she is chasing the OP. It really wouldn't make sense otherwise why she is taking such an interest in the matter. Usually they don't give a sh1t once the property is sold and they've received their fee.

mel123

Just to give an update, after i mailed solicitor on Friday saying i basically was not going to pay it, of course she rang me first thing this morning, going thru it all again with me, stressing i owed up until i left...i said i know but i was not going to pay it, it was their mistake, and she went back again saying how i owed until i left. SO in the end i told her listen, im not going to pay it, if you want, tell them they can chace me directly ie give them my number/forwarding address. She said they would be able to find that anyway (not sure how) and that if i apply for another mortgage (which i have not done yet) it will stand against me. I said 'what because of less than 200euro', and she said yes, its a credit owing. I cant see the bank refusing me a mortgage because of this (maybe they would, i dont know??). Anyway she proceeded to tell me the mgt co will get onto this big solicitor that they all use (i wont post name just incase) and then i will be liable for other costs besides the 200euro. I told her i am willing to take the risk. She said fine. Is she talking cr@p, like at the end of the day, i dont want to end up owing 1,000 a year down the line because i didnt pay less than 200 in the first place?!?

markpb

Why don't you contact the management company directly and see what they say?

It all sounds very dodgy to me. If you sell in the middle of the management company's financial year, it's up to the buyer and seller to divide the years amount between them. The management company have no part to play in it because they should already have received the annual fee at the start of the year. For example, if the fee is 1000 a year and you move out in September, the buyer owes you 250 euro because you have paid the last three months for them. The only exception is that if you hadn't paid your bills when you sold, it would be up to the buyers solicitor to make sure you pay either the mc or the seller the amount outstanding before the sale is completed. If something went wrong there, it's the sellers solicitor who is at fault and, once again, it's no business of the management company.

How Strange

mel123 wrote: »

Just to give an update, after i mailed solicitor on Friday saying i basically was not going to pay it, of course she rang me first thing this morning, going thru it all again with me, stressing i owed up until i left...i said i know but i was not going to pay it, it was their mistake, and she went back again saying how i owed until i left. SO in the end i told her listen, im not going to pay it, if you want, tell them they can chace me directly ie give them my number/forwarding address. She said they would be able to find that anyway (not sure how) and that if i apply for another mortgage (which i have not done yet) it will stand against me. I said 'what because of less than 200euro', and she said yes, its a credit owing. I cant see the bank refusing me a mortgage because of this (maybe they would, i dont know??). Anyway she proceeded to tell me the mgt co will get onto this big solicitor that they all use (i wont post name just incase) and then i will be liable for other costs besides the 200euro. I told her i am willing to take the risk. She said fine. Is she talking cr@p, like at the end of the day, i dont want to end up owing 1,000 a year down the line because i didnt pay less than 200 in the first place?!?

Total and utter crap. Your solicitor is talking pure sh1te.
Tell her you will report her for unprofessional conduct if she keeps it up.
As markpb said, maybe talk to the management company and see if they have any record of what they told your solicitor.

Read what I said above; its really the responsibilty of the new buyer to make sure the debt is cleared on the date of sale.

seamus

It all really depends on the leasehold agreement which was signed by you initially. If the agreement is between you and the management company and not assigned to the property, then you may very well be liable for such costs.

Similar to an ESB or Bord Gais bill - when you sell the property, your own personal debts aren't discharged with the property. The new owners aren't obliged to pay arrears on your utility bills because these are debts on your person. Management company fees may too be debts on your person, especially if you signed something to say they are.

I'm not sure if this kind of debt can stand against you in future (it shouldn't be recorded in your credit history), but it's a solicitor's job to make you aware of all the possibilities, however unlikely.

Total and utter crap. Your solicitor is talking pure sh1te.
Tell her you will report her for unprofessional conduct if she keeps it up.

It would be negligent of her to say, "Ah shure just forget about it". If she doesn't recommend the correct course of action, that would be very unprofessional.

How Strange

seamus wrote: »

It all really depends on the leasehold agreement which was signed by you initially. If the agreement is between you and the management company and not assigned to the property, then you may very well be liable for such costs.

Similar to an ESB or Bord Gais bill - when you sell the property, your own personal debts aren't discharged with the property. The new owners aren't obliged to pay arrears on your utility bills because these are debts on your person. Management company fees may too be debts on your person, especially if you signed something to say they are.

TBH, I've never seen a lease which stipulates anything of the kind. Relationship between account holder and ulitities company is entirely different and is a different scenario to this. The OP discharged his debt in good faith on the day of sale and now the solicitor is scaremongering because someone (the solicitor?) made a mistake in calculating the amount.

I'm not sure if this kind of debt can stand against you in future (it shouldn't be recorded in your credit history), but it's a solicitor's job to make you aware of all the possibilities, however unlikely.

Again, from professional experience I've never heard of such a thing.

It would be negligent of her to say, "Ah shure just forget about it". If she doesn't recommend the correct course of action, that would be very unprofessional.

Eh, the solicitor is spouting BS and all the OP needs to do is equip himself with a bit of basic information. I've never heard of such a thing in my professional experience and all I can think is that a) the solicitor f*cked up the amounts owing so she's worried about herself or b)there is a serious conflict of interest and may know the new buyer or his/her solicitor.
She is giving her client highly incorrect information.

All of what I've said in my previous posts is the current position in terms of discharging service charge debt on sale of a property. If the property is sold with a debt attached (knowingly or not) then that debt is then bought by the new owner of the property. That is the current status in a nutshell. The solicitor doesn't know her arse from her elbow if she is saying anything different. There are cases where a new owner can take legal action against the previous ownerfor unpaid charges but it is usually when there is a huge debt and the vendors solicitor misrepresented the facts on sale i.e. lied and said charges were paid up to date. This is highly unusual and would not be guaranteed to win in court as the buyer is also responsible for ensuring charges are paid up to date.


Also, the only way the 'debt' could affect you is if you were taken to court and a decision was taken against you but as above it is now not the OP's debt so there can't be a court case and the OP acted in good faith.

If I were the OP I would ask the solicitor to cut the crap and say exactly why she is pursuing HER CLIENT for €200 on behalf of a new buyer/management company. To me that reeks of unprofessional conduct and a conflict of interest. Who is she working for?

the_syco

How Strange wrote: »

If I were the OP I would ask the solicitor to cut the crap and say exactly why she is pursuing HER CLIENT for €200 on behalf of a new buyer/management company. To me that reeks of unprofessional conduct and a conflict of interest. Who is she working for?

The above bit, and also would it be worth having someone contacting the Management Company on the OP's behalf, to see how much money is owed, and compare it to the amount the solicitor is saying?

Victor

How Strange wrote: »

The OP discharged his debt in good faith

Good faith may not be enough.