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Why is there "space"

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  • 08-02-2008 1:56pm
    #1
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭


    Why is there "space" anyway, is there only space because the universe is populated by matter, did matter cause the space. was all this space here before the big bang, did the big bang explode out into preexisting space or did the big bang create the space. What I mean by space is literally all the empty space out there - the stuff you have to travel through to get to the moon. If there is a big crunch will it leave empty space behind or will it take space with it.


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    #2
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    MooseJam wrote: »
    Why is there "space" anyway, is there only space because the universe is populated by matter, did matter cause the space. was all this space here before the big bang, did the big bang explode out into preexisting space or did the big bang create the space. What I mean by space is literally all the empty space out there - the stuff you have to travel through to get to the moon. If there is a big crunch will it leave empty space behind or will it take space with it.

    The big bang was the expansion of space and it's continuing expansion, the space is not separate.


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    #3
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Space is not an empty void, it best thought of as a fabric which expands in every direction relative to a point of view. I think. "Space" was a product of the big-bang before which thier was er less than a void or a previous universe which collapsed back in on itself (the Big Crunch).

    Mike.


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    #4
    Kevster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Kevster


    I was just about to say what Mike just said: Space is not empty at all. It's filled with radiation and charged forms of matter. It's one harsh environment out there.


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    #5
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    OK BIg bang, expandin universe etc I kinaget, but I'm still all confused about what its expandin into?


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    #6
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Universe is expanding into "space" it is creating as its fabric expands. Or thats the current theory roughly. There is no "extra-universe" only the universe which stretches in all directions

    I bet that is of no help at all! :)

    Mike.


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    #7
    Kevster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Kevster


    It's [arguably] best to not even think about 'outside' the Universe because we simply cannot know what is there - We can only see the places in the Universe where light has reached. It thus goes without saying that light has not yet reached further than the edge of the Universe.

    Think within the box... ...not outside it! :p


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    #8
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    mike65 wrote: »
    Universe is expanding into "space" it is creating as its fabric expands. Or thats the current theory roughly. There is no "extra-universe" only the universe which stretches in all directions

    I bet that is of no help at all! :)

    Mike.

    So what happens if you sped to the outer reaches in a spaceship ? if there is no "extra-universe" would you come to a dead stop :confused:


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    #9
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    That would be an ecumenical matter.

    Or, the stretching of the universe is far faster than any spaceship could be so you'd never reach any limit.

    Mike.


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    #10
    Niall1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 425 ✭✭Niall1234


    You cannot leave space like people here are asking.

    The universe (which contains everything, including all empty space) is boundless (has boundaries) yet is limited in size.

    Think of it like this. We live on the earth. There are no boundaries to our movement, yet there is limited space.

    Increase the earth by one dimension and that what the universe is.

    The universe expanding would be like a baloon expanding, with the surface of the baloon being all the space in the universe. That is why there is no centre of the universe. The only theoretical centre of the universe exists at time 0, or the big bang.

    This also explains why, when the universe is expanding, all galaxies are moving away from each other at the same speed.


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    #11
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    Niall1234 wrote: »
    You cannot leave space like people here are asking.

    The universe (which contains everything, including all empty space) is boundless (has boundaries) yet is limited in size.

    Think of it like this. We live on the earth. There are no boundaries to our movement, yet there is limited space.

    Increase the earth by one dimension and that what the universe is.

    The universe expanding would be like a baloon expanding, with the surface of the baloon being all the space in the universe. That is why there is no centre of the universe. The only theoretical centre of the universe exists at time 0, or the big bang.

    This also explains why, when the universe is expanding, all galaxies are moving away from each other at the same speed.



    such a cool idea. i remember carl sagan going on about that in the cosmos and not knowing what he was on about. (at least i think it was carl sagan)
    still struggling with the idea though. if the universe is like the surface of the earth with the boundaries but limited space would i be right in saying that the bing bang occured in the centre like the core of the earth. and if so what is between the centre and the surface where the universe is?


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    #12
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    such a cool idea. i remember carl sagan going on about that in the cosmos and not knowing what he was on about. (at least i think it was carl sagan)
    still struggling with the idea though. if the universe is like the surface of the earth with the boundaries but limited space would i be right in saying that the bing bang occured in the centre like the core of the earth. and if so what is between the centre and the surface where the universe is?

    There is no centre of the universe.

    http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/centre.html


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    #13
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    Spear wrote: »
    There is no centre of the universe.

    http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/centre.html

    wow this is news to me, I always thought the big bang was just like a hand grenade going off with a center and matter expanding off of it. If you reversed time and the universe started to shrink would it shrink back to a point ?


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    #14
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    MooseJam wrote: »
    wow this is news to me, I always thought the big bang was just like a hand grenade going off with a center and matter expanding off of it. If you reversed time and the universe started to shrink would it shrink back to a point ?

    It's expansion everywhere equally, not out from a point, hence contraction would be everywhere, not back in to a point.


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    #15
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If want to listen to a 45 min discussion on matters raised on this thread check out

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime.shtml

    It was broadcast this morning I heard most of it, the download will be ready later today I'd say.

    Mike.


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    #16
    ivanthehunter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭ivanthehunter


    There is no such thing as space!
    The "so called vacum" of space is sicentifly referred to as Ether and its heavier than the so called planets, hard to beleive;)

    Why have space? well travel out so far into space and say you come to the end of space and its marked by a brick wall:eek: Well then! whats on the other side?:eek: .... space more space

    Whats space made of?
    we all know of different types of energy, some are visible most are not.
    light is one of the type which is visible(detectable with the human eye) and will be suitible for our theory experiment.
    Hop into your space ship and travel out into deep space, look out the window and tell me what you see!.. ANS:Stars!!

    look in any direction and you,ll see stars, so from this information you can easly see;) that everypoint in space is packed with energy..


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    #17
    Swampy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Swampy


    space confuses me.

    Any suggestions for a first time forray into the bookworld of Space and the cosmos etc?

    Ta.


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    #18
    velocirafter
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭velocirafter


    Swampy wrote: »
    space confuses me.

    Any suggestions for a first time forray into the bookworld of Space and the cosmos etc?

    Ta.

    Carl Sagans - Cosmos would be my suggestion. the dvd or the book is good. its fairly old but i dont think anything in it has been disproved.


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    #19
    Kevster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Kevster


    Swampy wrote: »
    space confuses me.

    Any suggestions for a first time forray into the bookworld of Space and the cosmos etc?

    Ta.

    I don't think you can go wrong with Dr. Stephen Hawkins' A Brief History of Time. It's cheap too, unlike other cosmology books.


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    #20
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    f you were to go in one direction at double the speed at which the universe is expanding, eventually you will get to the edge of the universe. Whats stopping you from stepping outside the universe?

    How would you manage that? As its beyond the possible the idea of "stepping" outside the universe cannot be proved.

    Mike.


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    #21
    CO19
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭CO19


    The earth and all the other planets are inside space so I'm always wondering what's space inside,I don't think it can just keep going and going it has to be contained within something :confused:


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    #22
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    CO19 wrote: »
    The earth and all the other planets are inside space so I'm always wondering what's space inside,I don't think it can just keep going and going it has to be contained within something :confused:

    Interesting point. If one were to work on the theory that matter is neither created nor destroyed, it just changes state. So there is the same amount of matter around now as there was at the time of the big bang and space is still expanding.

    Where is the matter that is changing state to allow this matter exchange to take place or is it still taking place from the big bang. This would also lead to the assumtion that the universe can only reach a fianite size?

    I also find it hard to understand that space is just ''coming into existance as it expands'' creating a space in which for space to exist out of seemingly nothing.:confused:

    Think I'm going to lie down for a sec. Just fried my brain trying to get around the concept in my mind:D.


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    #23
    CO19
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭CO19


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    Think I'm going to lie down for a sec. Just fried my brain trying to get around the concept in my mind:D.

    Your brain's fried,I've no idea what was going on there all this talk of matter/state etc has me confussted :confused: psychics was never my strong point :D


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