Japan scrambles 22 jets!, Russian airspace violation

Steyr

A Russian Tupolev 95 bomber flew for about three minutes over the isle of Sofugan, 650km (400 miles) south of Tokyo, Japanese officials said.

Japan responded by scrambling 22 jets and lodging an official protest with the Russian embassy.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7236241.stm

:eek:

Captain Chaos

The Russians are doing a lot of sabre rattling lately. Norway, UK, US and now Japan. And 22 fighters from Japan is a big deal in the scale of things.

I wonder how Russia would react if a Western aircraft violated it's airspace.:eek:

dr.bollocko

This sort of bull**** is really starting to piss me off. The Russian hardman act really needs to stop soon.

cp251

It's all for the benefit of the Russian public. The latest I read is that Putin has warned NATO to curb it's expansion or they would be forced to expand and modernise their forces, as if that wasn't happening already. I mean who actually believes that NATO is plotting to invade Russia!

It's game playing. The stakes are high though. Maybe someone needs to down a Bear or two to make them stop the nonsense.

Kaiser_Sma

Maybe effected nations should make an official statement to russia, saying that any future unauthorised infractions on their airspace will be enforced...with missles

Tenger

cp251 wrote: »

It's all for the benefit of the Russian public. The latest I read is that Putin has warned NATO to curb it's expansion or they would be forced to expand and modernise their forces, as if that wasn't happening already. I mean who actually believes that NATO is plotting to invade Russia!

It's game playing. The stakes are high though. Maybe someone needs to down a Bear or two to make them stop the nonsense.

I agree thats its for domestic consumption and in no small part to revive moral in the Russina armed forced. The Bears do not pose a threat to NATO, while the design is as old as the B52, at least the B52 is jet poweres ans has been upgraded repeatedly. It is sabre rattling and I hope the NATO realise this and use the incursions as helpful training/readiness excercises.

The Russians appear to be spending a lot of money on their military at the moment. However their best equipment (Mig29/Su27/Su37/Mig35) will not give them a decisive strategic advantage over their neighbours. They are trying to develop a well trained volunteer armed forces,however this will take at least 10 years to come to fruition. (Look at US Army after Vietnam)To be seen as a World Military Power again they need to be able to project force. Recently they have been unable to do this through military means and have had to use economic means (oil and gas supplies) There are talks of the Russian navy returning to the Med by having visiting rights at Syrian ports. Don't think this would go down well considering the Syrians aren't very popular with anyone at the moment (Apart from N.korea)

Steyr

Bramble wrote: »

Su27

Bramble while i agree with all you have said it is worthy to point out that the SU27's of the Indian AF as recently as last year had war games with the US and won outright, they even went without radar and managed to out perform in all fields what the US threw at them, it was also reported in certain Aviation Mags that they wouldnt turn on their systems until airborne as they didnt want the American's viewing the Avionics etc.

Tenger

Steyr wrote: »

Bramble while i agree with all you have said it is worthy to point out that the SU27's of the Indian AF as recently as last year had war games with the US and won outright,

I'm not putting down the Sukhois and Migs of the Russians at all.I was refering to Russias ability to project power in a strategic sense. The US do this with their Carrier groups steaming all over the globe,their Airforce holding excercises with other countries and their satellites giving global coverage. All the Russian can do is trail US vessels using slow reconnaisance aircraft.

Personally I think they (Mig29 and especially the Su27) are beautiful aircraft. And aviation mags give them great reviews. As you say they perform very well against the F- jets of the USAF and their allies. Note that the Polish (and some other Eastern European airforces) are keeping their Mig29s even while changing from Soviet to Nato equipment. I think the Luftwaffe still have their Ex-East German Mig29s. The only real engagements between USAF fighters and Mig29s were in Desert Storm I think. The US jets came out on top but I put this down to the pilots and airforces involved rather than the jets themselves. And why else would the US aggressor squadrons mimic the abilities and maneuvers of Mig29s and Su27s.

Anyone remember the Su27 with thrust vectoring that appeared at Farnbourough,I think it was 1992? The Western observers were shocked at its agility. When you read about the F22,the Americans talk up the thrust vectoring but the Russians have had this for years. The improved Su37 (which I think the Indians are getting,along with the Su33 and Su35) has the network datalink thing and rear facing radar. One aircraft can act as the 'eyes' for up to 9 others,feeding them info from its radar. meaning that unless the enemy jets get a skinpaint they will not realise there are 10 jets appraoching.

Jrad

Steyr wrote: »

A Russian Tupolev 95 bomber flew for about three minutes over the isle of Sofugan, 650km (400 miles) south of Tokyo, Japanese officials said.

Japan responded by scrambling 22 jets and lodging an official protest with the Russian embassy.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7236241.stm

:eek:

Scambled eggs = Delicious
Scrambled Jets = ?

Manic Moran

Note that the Polish (and some other Eastern European airforces) are keeping their Mig29s even while changing from Soviet to Nato equipment. I think the Luftwaffe still have their Ex-East German Mig29s.

No. Luftwaffe's MiG-29s were replaced by Typhoons and sold to Poland. The Czech MiG-29s also went to Poland, and were eventually replaced by Gripen.

The only real engagements between USAF fighters and Mig29s were in Desert Storm I think.

Deliberate Force would have been another example, but the MiG-29s the Yugoslavs had were some of the oldest built and were in horrendous condition.

And why else would the US aggressor squadrons mimic the abilities and maneuvers of Mig29s and Su27s.

Probably because they're more likely to shoot at Fulcrums and Flankers than Eagles and Falcons?

Anyone remember the Su27 with thrust vectoring that appeared at Farnbourough,I think it was 1992? The Western observers were shocked at its agility.

Shouldn't have been too shocked. The X-31 had been flying since 1990.

Indeed, off-axis flight had been experimented with by the US since the mid 1970s, though it used different technology.

The AFTI version flew in 1982.

One aircraft can act as the 'eyes' for up to 9 others,feeding them info from its radar. meaning that unless the enemy jets get a skinpaint they will not realise there are 10 jets appraoching

This 'silent targetting' is not new. The US has had it for some time.

The appearance of the current generation of Russian aircraft did not cause the sort of "Oh my God, they have better stuff than we do" shock that things like SS-N-2, JS-3 or BMP-1 did. The shock was really over "Oh my God, they have stuff that's on our level"

I'm not disparaging the CIS designs, but neither are they the greatest things since sliced bread.

NTM

Tenger

Manic Moran wrote: »

Luftwaffe's MiG-29s were replaced by Typhoons and sold to Poland. The Czech MiG-29s also went to Poland, and were eventually replaced by Gripen.

Didn't realise that the Luftwaffe had off loaded their Migs already. I had read that the Fulcrum and Phantom squadrons were converting to Eurofighters.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Deliberate Force would have been another example, but the MiG-29s the Yugoslavs had were some of the oldest built and were in horrendous condition.

The Yugoslav incidents are another example of a good aircraft flown badly. Am sure that the US are not afraid of the F14As in the Iranian inventory. A great aircraft but they have been grounded a long time and pilots may not be well trained.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Shouldn't have been too shocked. The X-31 had been flying since 1990.
Indeed, off-axis flight had been experimented with by the US since the mid 1970s, though it used different technology.
The AFTI version flew in 1982.

Yes but weren't the Soviets the first to have it in an operational aircraft. Wasn't this the shock factor when it was believed that the Soviets were behind in the technology race. The F22 is only now becoming operational. Once it is fully operational and developed I don't think anything will be able to compare with it. The US seem to perfect their aircraft as they mature in service.(F14D,F15E,F/A-18E/F,F16D)

Manic Moran wrote: »

This 'silent targetting' is not new. The US has had it for some time.

I realise that the US have done this for a long time with their Airborne Command Aircraft. Indeed I think this allows the US to punch above their numbers as they had get the jets exactly where they need to be quicker. Do the US use it in their F jets? Would that be seen as redundant with AWACS in the fleet?

Manic Moran wrote: »

The appearance of the current generation of Russian aircraft did not cause the sort of "Oh my God, they have better stuff than we do" shock that things like SS-N-2, JS-3 or BMP-1 did. The shock was really over "Oh my God, they have stuff that's on our level"

Didn't realise the BMP caused this reaction. Did this lead to the Bradley development?

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm not disparaging the CIS designs, but neither are they the greatest things since sliced bread.

Agree here. But still still think the Su-27 is a nicer looking aircraft than anything the US have.Actually the F14 was a looker too. Don't like the design of the the F35 and the F22 is a bit boring. The Su47 with the forward swept wings is very dramatic,the US tested this with the experimental X-29 in the 80s I think.

But back on topic for the Russians to be playing hardline with such old aircraft as the Tu-95 Bear in a way shows up their capabilities.If they suddenly started doing this with a more capable supersonic bomber design NATO would be a bit more alert to the threat. A few combined foreign excercises using the Russian carrier and her Sukhois would have the same effect.

Captain Chaos

They have been using the Tu-160s flying close to Norway and UK airspace, in November and December. They were intercepted by F-16AMs, Tornado F3, and Typhoons.

Manic Moran

The Yugoslav incidents are another example of a good aircraft flown badly

On the contrary, they were horrible aircraft flown very well. The aircraft were quite literally falling apart, to the level that the Yugoslav Air Force chief of staff took one up for a check ride in the middle of the fight against NATO to see for himself. They could have put US pilots in those aircraft and the results would have been the same.

Bramble wrote: »

Didn't realise the BMP caused this reaction. Did this lead to the Bradley development?

And every other such vehicle, at least, indirectly.

The Infantry Fighting Vehicle was an entirely new concept, and nothing in the Western inventories were of a similar role. All of a sudden, the Infantry had a way to fight rapidly and effectively in a contaminated environment, together with a large increase in firepower.

NTM

Tenger

Manic Moran wrote: »

The Infantry Fighting Vehicle was an entirely new concept, and nothing in the Western inventories were of a similar role. All of a sudden, the Infantry had a way to fight rapidly and effectively in a contaminated environment, together with a large increase in firepower.

There was me assuming that the Bradley was a development from the M113. In a way it is reminescient of the 1920-30s theory of having 2 roles for tanks. The Bradley (and similar vehicles) replacing what were then called Infantry tanks. Meanwhile the Abrams et al fight in the "Heavyweight" division!!:)

Steyr

Bramble wrote: »

Anyone remember the Su27 with thrust vectoring that appeared at Farnbourough,I think it was 1992? The Western observers were shocked at its agility.

Or the MiG29 OVT, which was at RIAT 07 and 08 for me i hope!!!:D

Captain Chaos

Steyr wrote: »

Or the MiG29 OVT, which was at RIAT 07 and 08 for me i hope!!!:D

I'd say it will be at '08, MiG are actively marketing the MiG-35.

As for the Flankers, that was the one off Su-37 test bed airframe, it crashed in 2002. The Su-30MKI's used br India are the only TV Flankers in service, no other customer has asked for TV on their Flankers so far.

Dogboyham

Jrad wrote: »

Scambled eggs = Delicious
Scrambled Jets = ?

Another Classic from Jrad. RIP

Tenger

Steyr wrote: »

Or the MiG29 OVT, which was at RIAT 07 and 08 for me i hope!!!:D

Am considering going to Fairford this year. Its July so need to start booking leave now. Just have to get my mate in Cambridge to go with me. Need someone to hold the beer while I take photos. Would love to see Mig35/Su30/Su35/F-anything 'in the flesh' so to speak. I read that the US aren't too active in the airshow circuit at the moment due to security and combat demands.
As he lives in Cambridge will try to do Duxford during the summer as well.