50/50 Finances

The Sweeper

This thread is inspired by a lot of what I see on the Ladies Lounge and on Personal Issues about couples and their finances.

There is no denying that finances are hugely important in any relationship. Depending what source of divorce statistics you're looking at, money is regularly cited as the number one reason for divorce.

There appears to be a strong sense among young women on boards.ie that their integrity and independence is strongly linked to their own self-sufficiency. That self-sufficiency concept seems to have its concrete foundations in equal financial contribution to a relationship - the 50/50 rule. You pay half of the bills, half of the rent, half of everything.

So here's my question - why do you do it?

This may sound like a stupid question, but I have my reasoning.

First of all, the gender salary gap still exists. As of July 2007, women across the EU were generally accepted to earn 15% less than their male counterparts. While the instance of men and women in similar positions in the same company getting paid different salaries may have lessened, the concept of gender inequality remains. Jobs that are dominated by women, but could be said to have similar skillset challenges to jobs dominated by men, are lower-paid positions - nurses get paid less than police, supermarket cashiers are paid less than assembly line workers etc.

Second, women occupy more lower paid jobs than men - this isn't quite the same as gender inequality within work, but on the same vein. Your man is more likely to be promoted to management than you are. A woman's career path is likely to be shorter, slower and more interrupted than a man's career path. The gender pay inequality increases with years of service - men over 50 are likely to earn an average of 30% more than women over 50.

The third aspect is motherhood. If you choose to be a mother, and you therefore cannot work, your income dries up. Maternity pay is limited and you essentially are reliant on the state or your partner for your income. If you choose to return to work you may well find yourself in the situation that most of your wages cover the cost of child care so essentially you're working so someone else can raise your child.

So here's my question - given that you're likely to earn less than your man while you are working, you're less likely to advance as far as he will throughout the path of your career, your lifetime wages will be far less than your male counterpart's and if you choose to be a mother your earnings will disappear down the swanny for at least six months if not longer, why do women generally feel such a compulsion, a responsibilty, even a duty to represent themselves financially on a 50/50 footing with their man?

What does it benefit you? Have we been that brainwashed into thinking that women who are not completely financially independent are gold-diggers? So you represent yourself 50/50 for the life of a three year relationship where he earns €15-20K more than you do - what do you think you come out with at the end of that three year relationship? A sense of personal integrity and self respect? Or a far smaller savings account than his?

This fascinates me generally - we'd all go bananas if we went into a shop where all of the items had a 15-20% mark-up if they're bought by a woman instead of a man, but we don't bat an eyelid at contributing, say, 80% of our personal income to our joint living arrangements, versus our bloke's 60%.

Is this another curse of the feminism backlash? Are we creating a rod to beat ourselves with? Whose stupid idea was this anyway?

Reku

And yet I still regularly hear worrying statistics about how few of these "finacially independent women" have proper pensions in place and how many are instead clinging to the hope of a partner who will look after them in their pensioner years.:(

But I would have to agree with you that they should probably work out a system whereby each puts the same percentage of their post tax pay towards joint bills (rent/mortgage, utilities, etc...).

(Person 1's net income + Person 2's net income)/x = bills
should let you work out the fraction of each person's income that they should put towards the bills.

jellie

It depends on the situation.

I cant comment much on living costs as I dont live with my bf. But in general if were doing things & have similar amounts of money at the time we spend about 50/50 or take turns paying. This would be when were both working. we're both young & there wouldnt be a huge difference in our salaries when both working.

However last year I was in college while he was working & this year hes gone back to college. Last year he paid for a lot of things because I had no money, & this year its the opposite way. This just happened to work out in a way where its balancing out, but i have no problem spending more money than him because at the moment i HAVE more money than him. & he was the same last year.

If we ever got to the point of marriage, i dont think we would view our salaries as MY money v.'s HIS money. it would be our money, so percentages wouldnt matter so much. (i probably sound a bit naive here, but things like this have come up a few times & i know hed feel the same way about it). Though i can see how it could get v messy depending on 1 persons spending habits. Hmm i dunno. i think ideally in a long term relationship it shouldnt be split like that, it should be joint money

Meathlass

It really depends on circumstances doesn't it. Not all women will earn less than their partner. I agree though that paying a percentage of post tax income is probably a good idea. It can be a personal choice though to earn less and why should the other person compensate for that? I currently earn more than my boyfriend and am in a higher management level in my profession but when I get to the top of the ladder I'll still only be on about 50,000 a year while the top of his ladder would be over 100,000. This is nothing to do with equality but the fact that he works in sciences and I work in humanities.

We're not at the paying rent/bills stage yet but when we go out we usually take it in turns to pay for dinner/drinks or cinema etc. I've noticed though that he can get a bit tetchy if I try and split bills for special occasions. This weekend we are going away for Valentine's day, he's paid for hotel and I want to pay for dinner, spa and golf while we're there. He's insisting on paying for it all even though he knows I have more money than him, I just don't get it.

I've just read Sar84 and disagree with the comment that all salaries should be considered joint. What do married people or those living together think? Surely the easiest way is to have a joint account where you put in half the mortage, half the esb, sky etc every month and then what's left over is yours to spend on what you wish, be it paying off loans, clothes, nights out or gadgets!

Crumble Froo

we pay about 50/50ish. say we went to the cinema, i might get both tickets, but he'd get my bus and food.

the reasoning is that we're both equals. neither of us have much money, and usually if we wnat to go out to do something, it has to be both us chipping in, cos it is too expensive otherwise, and i feel crap wehn he does pay for me/my stuff, cos i know he doesnt really have it to give.

we split rent 50/50, same wiht power, split the phone line rental, and then pay for our own calls. we food shop together, and though things like bread and milk could go in either section, we pay for our food individually too. it's just fair, it's how we're kinda used to doing things, and nobody feels like they owe each other or anything.

We split everything 50/50. Up until recently I earned more than my boyfriend so I wouldn't expect it to be any other way.

However we're not the types to adhere to a strict split all the time, on occasion he'll pick up the bill in a restaurant, other times I've booked flights on my credit card and just pay for both of us.

I don't like the 'gold-digger' accusations towards women.
Hopefully some day we'll have kids and I would prefer not to work fulltime then.
I certainly wouldn't consider myself a 'kept woman' to rely more heavily on his salary in those circumstances.

litup

We split mortgage, bills etc 50/50.

The reason? Well firstly, it is fair, so why not. Secondly, I think it is important to be able to support your own standard of living. If next week my partner and I were no longer together I would like to be able to carry on a similar standard of living on my salary, not have a big drop because he was subsidising me.

The way it works for us in practice is bills etc are always split evenly but discressionary spending is usually paid by whichever one of us is earning more at the time.

I don't have kids, if I did this might change.

cold_filter

My Gf earns more than me and its quite a large amount, and most likely within a couple of years she'll be earning probably 30k p.a. more than me. But in about 5 years I'll probably be earning 30k p.a. more than her so it will balance out.


When she was doing her finals she had no money, she was living with relatives so she had no bills but she has a big family and there were a lot of birthdays around that time, I gave her money for them, money for petrol, brought her for dinner etc etc. It didnt bother me as i knew the following year she would have to do the same for me! and she did!

We were renting for a while and I was contracting so earning a lot more than her, we did 50/50 but if she was ever stuck I just gave her money and if we went out for dinner or anything i paid.

We bought a house, going into the house we had pretty much the same cash saved but she had her ssia, i've got a couple of life assurance policies so aslong as i dotn die in the next 10 years that'll get us an extension or pay off some of the mortgage. We have a joint account for bills etc.. its 50/50

neuro-praxis

Maybe me and my other half are different to other couples, but we have always pooled our money and then worked from there. We have joint accounts and have never even really thought about it. I can't imagine being in a situation where I have to pay half of the phone bill and he pays the other. We pay the phone bill with money from our joint account, which we both contribute to. At times I've earned more, right now he does. Surely sharing life means sharing finances. Anything else doesn't make sense to me.

Iago

we split 50/50 but we earn almost identical amounts. If there was a big gap I'd advocate a fair split based on what we take home. Not because I think it's overly important, but more so that we each have our own "pocket money" if there's something that catches our eye.

In reality even if there was a significant difference we would still provide for each other as and when required. Neither of us watches what we spend or who is doing the spending, which is how I think it should be.

Quality

We have a joint account from when we got married but I am allowed to keep the childrens allowance.

Before we were married, He paid the mortgage and bills and I paid for childcare and food. He would always give me money to go shopping or if I was going out with the girls.


I know he would like to provide for me 100%. But I enjoy working, Also the extra money allows us to enjoy life a bit more, Nice holidays etc.

Dragan

No offence OP but your initial posting does not really take into account that lots of blokes end up with girls who are financially in a much better position than they are.

My last two girlfriends have been better paid that me, owned their own cars and their own houses. This is awesome i am proud of both of them for acheiving what they did at a young age.

However, does it give me the right to say "Nah, i'm not paying for cinema tickets because you earn more than me"?

I think not. People choose to go out with each other.....if money is such a major issue for people then i suggest we all procreate within our own salary benchmark.

ali.c

Dragan wrote: »

However, does it give me the right to say "Nah, i'm not paying for cinema tickets because you earn more than me"?

True but there is a difference between paying for cinema tickets and say buying a house with someone (who presumably you are planning on spending a significant amount of time with if you the rest of your life). So if in a long term commited relationship the incomes are proportionally very varied then what the OP is suggesting does make sense.

For me though eh i like my independence and personally if my bf was paying my rent it would bother me and therefore likely not be healthy for the relationship.

In a marraige I prefer the idea of a joint account with percentage contribuations linked to your earning capacity.
I wouldn't like to have any shared financial responsibilty such as a house outside of marraige.

Dragan

The way i see it is this. Everyone's finances are their own business so i imagine all couples will sort this out on their own.

However, from my point of view, regardless of the difference in payscales everything done between my and my future ( and only 1....whether it works out for every or not.....whoever can give me the suitable John Mayer line wins a prize ) wife will be done 50/50.

We are agreeing to share a life together........everything we do we are agreeing to share. If we get bogged down in the cash then that tells me that our marrige was not worth getting into in the first place. Money will go into accounts, bills paid, things purchased and thats about it. If it boils down to her ever turning around to me and saying something like "well, we have a 7.3% difference in our earning potential now so i have weighted our share of the bills accordingly" then i will be asking myself did this woman marry me for me or for HER wallet.

Thats just me though. My wife will have the same blasse attitude to money as well.....if she didn't i wouldn't marry her.

ali.c

Dragan wrote: »

The way i see it is this. Everyone's finances are their own business so i imagine all couples will sort this out on their own.

Yeah i'd imagine so too

Then you lose me

However, from my point of view, regardless of the difference in payscales everything done between my and my future ( and only 1....whether it works out for every or not.....whoever can give me the suitable John Mayer line wins a prize ) wife will be done 50/50.

So 50/50 split irregardless of earning etc

We are agreeing to share a life together........everything we do we are agreeing to share. If we get bogged down in the cash then that tells me that our marrige was not worth getting into in the first place. Money will go into accounts, bills paid, things purchased and thats about it.

See that seems to be suggesting the opposite or am I reading it wrong.

Anyhow lets go with a 50/50 split your wife earns significantly more that you in this situation should
a.) she live in a small house because you cant afford a larger house
or
b.) you live in a large house and max out all your discretary(sp??) money on your 50% split of the mortage and your wife can take all the foreign holidays cause you cant afford them:D

Dragan

ali.c wrote: »

Anyhow lets go with a 50/50 split your wife earns significantly more that you in this situation should
a.) she live in a small house because you cant afford a larger house
or
b.) you live in a large house and max out all your discretary(sp??) money on your 50% split of the mortage and your wife can take all the foreign holidays cause you cant afford them:D

I don't know, to be honest. I'd need to chat about that with my future wife! Maybe she will hate her high paying job and be made to quit.

SO together we travel to Bali and set up a small shop on the beach selling hand made wood crafts to tourist. Or perhaps she convinces me that i can stop working altogether and continue working on my book. Not because she wants me to be published.....just because she wants to read it.

Or maybe, just maybe.......a million things might happen?

I honestly do not really worry about it too much.....i will marry a woman who is foolish enough to let me love her and we will worry about the money aspect as it happens.....not hypothetically for the sake of a forum!

I guess thats why i say 50/50? it's the easiest answer for what is, in essence.....a bull**** question?

ali.c

Dragan wrote: »

I guess thats why i say 50/50? it's the easiest answer for what is, in essence.....a bull**** question?

True of course it varies with circumstances. Nothing wrong with people expressing different opinions on it though

Dragan

ali.c wrote: »

True of course it varies with circumstances. Nothing wrong with people expressing different opinions on it though

Tee hee hee, can you imagine if all differences of opinion were this polite?

The net would be super dull!!!

ali.c

Dragan wrote: »

Tee hee hee, can you imagine if all differences of opinion were this polite?

The net would be super dull!!!

Damn straight, anyhow personally I'd be making it up as i go along if and when i get to the stage of actually marrying someone!

*or as soon as i find someone dumb enough lol

LouOB

I do 50/50 also on bills and mortgage. But the thing that really annoys me is the fact I would spend more money on food and stuff for the house i.e. towels, soft furnishings etc. Yet the money I would put into these things would not compare to the money that OH would.
For instance I would go food shopping and buy stuff needed for house eg washing powder, soap, as well as food. Yet he would just buy the food that he would eat.
This is where the inequality comes into play. Why should I have to pay more just to have more quality ie new towels and soft sheets? While he gets them for free!

Dragan

LouOB wrote: »

I do 50/50 also on bills and mortgage. But the thing that really annoys me is the fact I would spend more money on food and stuff for the house i.e. towels, soft furnishings etc. Yet the money I would put into these things would not compare to the money that OH would.
For instance I would go food shopping and buy stuff needed for house eg washing powder, soap, as well as food. Yet he would just buy the food that he would eat.
This is where the inequality comes into play. Why should I have to pay more just to have more quality ie new towels and soft sheets? While he gets them for free!

Eh, maybe say it too him?

LouOB

OH I have - but there is only so many times before you start sounding like you are 'nagging'. So I have to be more stealth like in future ie I dont have wallet with me etc. Silly but when you are spending 100+ more a mth on 'home' stuff it really annoys me.
Does anyone else have this too?

Dragan

Personally i just cannot understand how these situations even arise?

Money is earned, bills need paying, so money is put towards the bills. When my Dad was the only one working full time when Mum was looking after us nippers he would come home on Friday, hand mum his pay check and that was it.

Dad didn't drink, smoke or have any expensive habits because he couldn't afford them. Thats the way it has always been, Mum get's handed the paycheck.

Every live in relationship i have had everything was dealt with as a couple. Money was offered when needed to cover stuff. Bills had kitty's, as did the groceries.

It is completely alien to me to think that a couple would argue about money, to be honest.

smurfbaby

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

There appears to be a strong sense among young women on boards.ie that their integrity and independence is strongly linked to their own self-sufficiency. That self-sufficiency concept seems to have its concrete foundations in equal financial contribution to a relationship - the 50/50 rule. You pay half of the bills, half of the rent, half of everything.

So here's my question - why do you do it?

I live with my boyfriend, we own our house jointly. My view is-why shouldnt I pay half if it is something that we use equally? For example, if he earns more than me, should he subsidise my mortgage payment by paying a greater percentage than me? This doesn't make sense-if he paid more of the mortgage he would simply own a greater share of the property. Similarly why should he subsidise the rest of my lifestyle? If I lived alone and couldnt afford a particular luxury I would have to live without it. If I shared a rented house with friends who earned more than me I wouldn't expect them to pay more rent than me. Life just doesn't work like that! At least I know I can afford to live the life I live, and so a break up wouldn't affect my standard of living.

However if he wants to treat me by taking me out to dinner, or buying me perfume then that's fine too. It's nice to be treated, but I don't expect to be 'kept'. I also like to save up and treat him to a holiday or a present. We don't think about finances as being strictly 50/50, for example we would never split a bill, but we both like to pay our own way.

litup

LouOB wrote: »

OH I have - but there is only so many times before you start sounding like you are 'nagging'. So I have to be more stealth like in future ie I dont have wallet with me etc. Silly but when you are spending 100+ more a mth on 'home' stuff it really annoys me.

As mentioned earlier money issues can cause serious relationship problems so I think rather than 'nagging' each time it happens sit down and have a discussion about it in general and explain your feelings. I don't think its a good idea to have to resort to 'stealth' tactics in a relationship.

The way we work it is we each put €x into a joint account each month and out of that comes bills/mortgage etc but we also use a laser card from that account to buy food and household stuff.

NextSteps

We divide food, bills etc 50/50 - we write dow all expenditure and carve it up at the end of the month. It works fine as we earn more or less the same amount.

But I do worry about if we have children - part of me would want to give up work and rear them but a very large part would object to being supported financially. Now I know that I'd be doing half - and probably the difficult half - of the family's work, but I still wouldn't feel that it was my money. And I'd hate to be relying on pin money for every little expense, or to be accountable for everything. Plus, I'd feel I was letting the side down by leaving the workforce (with my qualifications).

I dunno, is there a satisfactory solution?

Meathlass

While personally I would just split bills 50/50 and have the money come out of a joint account regardless of individual salaries how to people cope with the problem mentioned where one person spends money on soft furnishings that the other mightn't be too pushed about? I like to buy nice stuff for the house but I know most guys wouldn't care but they still get to use the towels, nice sheets etc anyway. At the same time I don't think one person should use all of their disposible income buying furniture and cushions. Maybe set a monthly allowence or something like that (btw unless you're furnishing a new house 100 euros a month seems a lot to spend)

LouOB

Ok - I would pay 100+ more on food and household. But would also buy stuff for house ie sheets, duvet, candels, towels etc. Now usually I would ask for half if say I spent 160 on particular shop or item. But amounts add up during month with 20 or 30 here and there on food. It starts getting mad.
I would be first to be home in the evening as my job is closer to home so I would get in stuff needed. But this is usually the case. All extras add up. I dont mind now and again and its usually myself that likes diff things but when you left with no cash at end of month. Then start to analysis where money gone it kinda mad when all goes on food, petrol and house. I know its not just me its everyone.
I refuse to get joint account - where all monies poolled together. I have one with bills ONLY. I worked in bank branch and auld one gave me best advice ever - never get joint with spouse.

ali.c

LouOB wrote: »

I refuse to get joint account - where all monies poolled together. I have one with bills ONLY. I worked in bank branch and auld one gave me best advice ever - never get joint with spouse.

could you not work out a budget for household items (including food) and get a kitty going? Each transfer in 50% at the start of the month or however you get paid and work out of that for everything. Honestly though IMHO your talking to the wrong people about this

watna

Everything gets aplit 50/50 with us i.e. rent and bills. We have a joint account and pay an equal amount in to the account each month for groceries/petrol. It works out very well and we never fight about money. If we go out for the night we split the cost and if we go on holidays we work out wha we each spent and make sure it's even(ish). I earn a bit more than my bf but no matter what we'd still pay 50/50. I wouldn't have it any other way. My bf wants to go do a masters soon and I'll be earning a lot more. I may contribute more to household expenses but that will even out some time in the future. I'm happy to support him doing that because he'd do the same for me. As long as we both feel we're equally contributing, we're happy.