Jean-Marie Le Pen to come to give a speech in UCD!!??

The_Minister · 13-02-2008 4:07am

FionnMatthew wrote: »

Agreed on everything but the Machiavelli bit.

Machiavelli would certainly not have run into a room to kick someone.

In fact, while old Mac's macropolitics are quite fascistic in nature, his micropolitics are rather more reminiscent of the rhetorical manipulation that goes on in democratic assemblies.

The last thing Mac would want is The Prince stomping on someone in jackboots.

Thank you for defending good old Niccolo, but if you read "The Discourses" you will see that his ideal Republic was actually quite nice (for the day). The Prince is about how a dictator should rule, so obviously its a little bit morally ambiguous. He dedicated it to a man who had him tortured for Christ's sake.

boneless · 13-02-2008 9:06am

The_Minister wrote: »

Thank you for defending good old Niccolo, but if you read "The Discourses" you will see that his ideal Republic was actually quite nice (for the day). The Prince is about how a dictator should rule, so obviously its a little bit morally ambiguous. He dedicated it to a man who had him tortured for Christ's sake.

Stolkholm Syndrome?

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 3:06pm

JM Le Pen is the Man.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 3:10pm

Morlar wrote: »

Isnt denying expression and stifling freedoms a hallmark of stereotypical fascistic behaviour ? 'This is for your own good' 'We know best' etc Ironically it seems to me that the most fascist behaviour thesedays is from the so called anti-fascists, who, despite being unelected propose to tell the less sophisticated/elite members of society who they can and can not have an opportunity to listen to. In other words 'we have made your mind up for you'.

Well, the Party is always right. Isn't that what they said in the USSR:D:D:rolleyes:

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 3:14pm

The only Jackbooted thugs out there are of the Socialist Variety.

The_Minister · 13-02-2008 3:14pm

boneless wrote: »

Stolkholm Syndrome?

I think he was just playing politics (and todays group think they have it tough)

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 3:15pm

The only jackbooted thugs out there are of the Socialist variety. When was the last time you saw Jackbooted "Fascists".

JumpJump · 13-02-2008 5:31pm

^^^ http://www.redwatch.co.uk/
Em, neo-nazis, skinheads (the fascist kind), the BNP, the National Front...keep up.

This is old news.

I love how people suddenly got all ideological about this and decried the death of free speech.

This is NOT a free speech issue. The issue here was that Le Pen was being given this platform to speak against the Lisbon Treaty. Why? How would this prompt fair, educational, balanced debate of any sort?

Also, I wonder what far-left extremist was going to be speaking FOR the Lisbon Treaty? Ye know, just to balance the debate.

The man has a right to free speech, and nobody is denying him this.
BUT, he does NOT deserve the offer of a platform to speak to hundreds of young Irish students. The two things are entirely different.

Ernie Ball · 13-02-2008 5:32pm

IT Loser wrote: »

The only jackbooted thugs out there are of the Socialist variety. When was the last time you saw Jackbooted "Fascists".

Last time I witnessed a Le Pen rally.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 6:56pm

JumpJump wrote: »

^^^ http://www.redwatch.co.uk/
Em, neo-nazis, skinheads (the fascist kind), the BNP, the National Front...keep up.

This is old news.

I love how people suddenly got all ideological about this and decried the death of free speech.

This is NOT a free speech issue. The issue here was that Le Pen was being given this platform to speak against the Lisbon Treaty. Why? How would this prompt fair, educational, balanced debate of any sort?

Also, I wonder what far-left extremist was going to be speaking FOR the Lisbon Treaty? Ye know, just to balance the debate.

The man has a right to free speech, and nobody is denying him this.
BUT, he does NOT deserve the offer of a platform to speak to hundreds of young Irish students. The two things are entirely different.

I think hundreds of young Irish students can make their own minds up, They can choose to attend the debate or ignore it. You don't decide what is best.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 6:58pm

Ernie Ball wrote: »

Last time I witnessed a Le Pen rally.

I was talking about Ireland.

Ivana Bacik and her Socialist baby killers....don't forget them. Of course, there is "Youth Defence" too....but don't ever expect to hear RTE talk about the "Pro Choice" lot in the same verse as they will of "Youth Defence". Also, militant Socialist Republicans and their attack on the "Love Ulster" lot.

Morlar · 13-02-2008 7:04pm

JumpJump wrote: »

This is NOT a free speech issue

Seems to me that that is exactly what it is - you are opposed to someone on political grounds and wish to

a) deny them an opportunity to speak
b) deny anyone else the opportunity to hear what they have to say

You have not been elected or have any kind of mandate from anyone to make those decisions.

So yes - that sounds like what that is about is the principle of free speech.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 7:14pm

Morlar wrote: »

Seems to me that that is exactly what it is - you are opposed to someone on political grounds and wish to

a) deny them an opportunity to speak
b) deny anyone else the opportunity to hear what they have to say

You have not been elected or have any kind of mandate from anyone to make those decisions.

So yes - that sounds like what that is about is the principle of free speech.

Well done. What I hate about these lefty elitists, who throw their weight around on Campus, is that they think they are in a position to decide what is right for the rest of us. Sounds like the Pigs in Animal Farm to me.

Le Pen should be allowed come....and speak unhindered.

If Hugo Chavez, a man who tried to use the Army {a la Hitler} to gain power came to speak, would they be trying to stop him. Ha. Of course not....but Chavez is as brutal a defiler of the democratic process AS ANY MAN. In fact, the similarities between Hitler and Chavez are striking.

briantwin · 13-02-2008 7:18pm

A lot of people have made the point that he should be allowed to come here, make his points in a debate and then have them suitably rebuffed and that would be that. And what good will that do? Will he go back to France having learned the err of his ways ? Or is it unnecessarily exposing him to 100's of Irish youth?

Would it be worth it to have him here, to be rebuffed suitably and sent on his merry way , if he even influences 5 people out of the 100's to his fascist way of thinking?

I only wrote the OP because a friend of mine, a French sociology lecturer was telling me how enraged he was by the mere thought of it. And i agree with him on that!!

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 7:22pm

briantwin wrote: »

A lot of people have made the point that he should be allowed to come here, make his points in a debate and then have them suitably rebuffed and that would be that. And what good will that do? Will he go back to France having learned the err of his ways ? Or is it unnecessarily exposing him to 100's of Irish youth?

Would it be worth it to have him here, to be rebuffed suitably and sent on his merry way , if he even influences 5 people out of the 100's to his fascist way of thinking?

I only wrote the OP because a friend of mine, a French sociology lecturer was telling me how enraged he was by the mere thought of it. And i agree with him on that!!

Are you Simple??

Would you have Chavez here???

"Unnecessarily Exposing Him to 100's of Irish Youth"....Jesus Christ, you are DELUDED.

He is a free man in a free country and the people likely to attend are free men and women too. If thats too Democratic for you, then I suggest you put the spliff down and pick up a rifle.

Seems to me you have a problem with Democracy? Are you a Commie???

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 7:28pm

briantwin wrote: »

I think that in Irelands current situation i dont believe letting that man into the country would be anything but a mistake. There are a growing number of Irish people who would be swayed easily by this mans way of thinking, im not saying that they are fascists but to give the man a platform to voice any of his opinions would really be playing with fire. How many times have you heard someone complaining about "them foreigners etc etc etc". I'm not saying these people are guaranteed to become fascists but its an easier option to blame someone else especially immigrants when it comes to social issues like unemployment, housing issues, strained health care systems and over expenditure of the national budget on people who in his opinion "dont belong here". Now would be the worst possible time for any kind of surge in people thinking this way as its become more clear that economic uncertainty seems sure to cause hardship to more and more Irish families. The last thing we need to do is spawn a generation of little Adolfs!!!

FOOL.

What is this? A liberal form of Eugenics? Who are you to decide what people can and can't listen to, or what sort of people they are or aren't allowed to become.

I think you realise Le Pen speaks the truth and you are afraid to let the Jack out of the box, que no??

If you are such an economic and spiritual intellectual, you will shout this man down with ease?

But are apparently too afraid to let him speak, lest he be Marc Anthony to your Brutus. You fool, you block, you stone, you worse than senseless thing.

briantwin · 13-02-2008 7:29pm

Close enough.... Except reds not my colour sadly!

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 7:29pm

briantwin wrote: »

Close enough.... Except reds not my colour sadly!

Green. Another fool.

briantwin · 13-02-2008 8:18pm

I think you realise Le Pen speaks the truth and you are afraid to let the Jack out of the box, que no??

If you are such an economic and spiritual intellectual, you will shout this man down with ease?

But are apparently too afraid to let him speak, lest he be Marc Anthony to your Brutus. You fool, you block, you stone, you worse than senseless thing.

I never professed myself an economic or spiritual intellect in any of my posts, i just said how i felt about the situation.

I didn't ask for your agreement or anyone else's for that matter. And from your responses and the tone you've implied there in, i'd prefer to be on what ever side opposes yours!!

IT Loser wrote: »

JM Le Pen is the Man.

I hope you mean that, i really do, you idiot. I don't deny anyone the right to anything i just don't agree with inviting the leader of the fascist party to Ireland.

I'm sorry if it seems like someone is denying you your one chance to meet you idol in person. Go join some like minded people and burn out some immigrants businesses in retaliation. You utter fool !!

boneless · 13-02-2008 8:22pm

IT Loser wrote: »

Well done. What I hate about these lefty elitists, who throw their weight around on Campus, is that they think they are in a position to decide what is right for the rest of us. Sounds like the Pigs in Animal Farm to me.

Le Pen should be allowed come....and speak unhindered.

If Hugo Chavez, a man who tried to use the Army {a la Hitler} to gain power came to speak, would they be trying to stop him. Ha. Of course not....but Chavez is as brutal a defiler of the democratic process AS ANY MAN. In fact, the similarities between Hitler and Chavez are striking.

Have you ever read a newspaper or watched the news recently? I was just wondering...:rolleyes:

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 8:23pm

briantwin wrote: »

I never professed myself an economic or spiritual intellect in any of my posts, i just said how i felt about the situation.

I didn't ask for your agreement or anyone else's for that matter. And from your responses and the tone you've implied there in, i'd prefer to be on what ever side opposes yours!!

I hope you mean that, i really do, you idiot. I don't deny anyone the right to anything i just don't agree with inviting the leader of the fascist party to Ireland.

I'm sorry if it seems like someone is denying you your one chance to meet you idol in person. Go join some like minded people and burn out some immigrants businesses in retaliation. You utter fool !!

No immigrant business has ever been burned down in Ireland. You have been watching "Proof 2" too much. My argument is not with Immigrants anyways, its with domestic incumbant politics.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 8:24pm

boneless wrote: »

Have you ever read a newspaper or watched the news recently? I was just wondering...:rolleyes:

No news in the truth, no truth in the news.

Ron Paul for president.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 8:31pm

Stepherunie wrote: »

A motion was put before Council to stop LaPen attending (who it should be pointed out had not confirmed he would attend) and was heavily defeated.

However it should further be pointed out that as far as I'm aware UCD did not stop his attendance - his passport was revoked.

And OP if you believe so much in democracy and what's right, whether or not you agree with LaPen, then the argument to not let him attend on the basis of what he believes in is a flawed one.

Oh and it was a Lawsoc debate, not L&H

Le Pens passport was revoked? What about the Passport of the Czech who killed and raped the woman in Longford???

Stepherunie · 13-02-2008 8:40pm

If you read further down you'd note that that wasn't the reason he isn't attending - he turned down the invite.

However there was talk at council of how the French Authorities were discussing the possibility of revoking his passport.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 8:45pm

Stepherunie wrote: »

If you read further down you'd note that that wasn't the reason he isn't attending - he turned down the invite.

However there was talk at council of how the French Authorities were discussing the possibility of revoking his passport.

I guess that possibility was non existant. Le Pen is as welcome in this Country as General Adolpho Chavez, Jesse Jackson, Osama Barrack, and other noted muckrakers.

The_Minister · 13-02-2008 8:48pm

IT Loser, call one more person a fool and I will ban you.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 9:08pm

The_Minister wrote: »

IT Loser, call one more person a fool and I will ban you.

Understood. I hope you gave the same warning to the other person too.

IT Loser · 13-02-2008 9:11pm

Breezer wrote: »

These aren't usually the type of people who frequent L & H debates at UCD. Personally I think if he's allowed stand for election in France he should be allowed to speak here. It doesn't mean I agree with him and I'd be very happy to see his arguments defeated by logic and reason.

Anyway, this news is 2 weeks old...

Not only did he stand for election but he got thru to the run off with Chirac. That would have required millions of votes. He got those votes, so does that mean there are millions of fascists and racists in France?? The bottom line is that Le Pen played the democracy game and won. That seems a bitter pill to swallow for some but of you can't play the game then get off the field.

Personally, I have litte to no time for the guy. He distracts from main issues. But the very fact that there is any "uproar" over him coming here is proof that these liberals are nowhere near as "democratic" as they would have us believe.

JumpJump · 13-02-2008 9:46pm

IT Loser wrote:

Osama Barrack

Good jesus. :rolleyes:

Brimmy · 13-02-2008 9:56pm

briantwin wrote: »

I hope you mean that, i really do, you idiot. I don't deny anyone the right to anything i just don't agree with inviting the leader of the fascist party to Ireland.

Grow up, seriously. Your argument has deterioted to the point where you are just calling people fool's, anyone is entitled to their own opinion and political beliefs (no matter how deluded you might think), but you are opposing and belittling these peoples chances to speak and it's making you no better than them. At least they are open about their beliefs, if you can't be democratic then don't delude yourself and pretend to be, you don't live in a political system where everyone meanders to your tastes and beliefs only. You have to except the diversity of views and until you can do that don't comment on the issue please and just do us all a favour.

IT Loser wrote: »

Ron Paul for president.

Quoting this just because it needs to be quoted and I laughed at it.

JumpJump wrote: »

Good jesus. :rolleyes:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

Seriously though what's the big deal about, we live in a free society which means the man is free to come but he's not now so why are we still continuing on? It's rather pointless.

Jean-Marie Le Pen to come to give a speech in UCD!!??

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