WIT University

mike65

Amazotheamazing is bang-on, there are (understandable parochial) reasons to want a University in the SE but he/she is quite right about the standards issue - the country has one University of any repute - Trinity and some good individual faculties scattered about. All third level funding is poor as things stand (WIT students will testify to lousy infrastucture/facilities) can anyone imagine a genuinely well funded U of the SE, which raises standards in R&D?

Mike.

invincibleirish

Freddie59 wrote: »

Ah Limerick - explains it all then. I'm alright Jack - so f*** you. That attitude has brought this country to it's knees for years. The Shannon area - for whatever political reasons - has been mollycoddled and protected for years. Now that they have to come into the real world they expect other areas to toe the line and not receive their fair share.

Waterford and the South-East's proximity to Europe (and the fact that we are a gateway city) would be a huge competitor for the Shannon region. Well, my frend, get used to it. You've had your day - ours is coming. It's inevitable.

When WU becomes a reality we'll see how it all pans out. And whether or not the Mid-West can hold it's own without being babysat as it has been for years. I had some sympathy for the Shannon airport workers during the Aer Lingus debacle last year. That has quickly evaporated given the snide and downright arrogant nature of your comments towards Waterford and the South East.

What nonsense, how old are you btw, you have a daughter, im gonna guess you never went to Uni?;)

1. Waterford is a gateway city in the NSS, so is Athlone, Tullamore & Mullingar, do they deserve a University too?

2. Shannon is an airport this is a university question, they are both white elephant projects. But just because one exists doesnt mean the other has to be built.

3. Waterfords a few dozen miles closer to Europe- Big deal, if you are justifying A Uni on that basis you must be smoking crack.

4. people are arrogant because there isnt a single coherent reason for upgrading WITs status.

5. If we are to live in the real world then it means telling regional complainers like you the facts.

invincibleirish

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

From Limerick, and I can see why Waterford wants a university, but the truth is, in my experience of the university sector, we have too many already.

There are plenty of cogent arguments against UL, and NUI, M for that matter.

As a country, we need to get away from the parochialism of local politics and the tribalism that passes for debate. We need to look at Ireland as a whole.

It is a small country with one city, Dublin, and several larger or smaller regional towns. Cork is a regional town, so is Limerick, Galway and Waterford. Let's stop hiding behind designations and fact the reality of regional Ireland.

We have the crazy notion that every town needs an international airport, seaport and university, even worse, we have the crazy notion that's there's some limitless pot of gold to pay for all this. And some limitless number of "consumers" for all these products. Every town is so busy trying to grab whatever it can from the pot of gold that there in so thought been given as to how each town should develop.

If you choose to live in a regional town, you consciously forgo some benefit that could come from living in a larger town or city. The only thing is, people don't see this. They think because they want something, the rest of the country should provide it. Are Waterford people bothered by the fact that we have too mant universities and too few students already? No. Are Waterford people bothered by the fact that every university is already under-funded? No. Of course not, Waterford people have no interest in the general health of the university sector as long as Waterford gets a university. It's understandable, but it's narrow minded.

Ireland is a small country, we have limited pool of taxes, and we have limited people who'll go to university. Even if it was truly free, there's still only a fixed number of people who would go. We've over-stretched on university places, hence points are dropping. We've too many places and not enough students. Of course, somewhere in the South East there's roughly 500,000 people who will go university tomorrow if only one was provided....

Course, what do Waterford people think of academic standards? All for them I guess, course, for the past 10 years universities are complaining that students are arriving to universities without having the basic ability to survive university courses. People are doing doss leaving cert courses and then waking up in university and realising they can't manage the math of engineering, or the research needed for Arts or whatever. But of course, we need more university places....

We need to get over the irish notion that 100kms is a big distance, it isn't. It's tiny, we're a small country and proper investment in infrastructure would make the distance relatively smaller again. Was Ireland better off for building UL, or would a motorway between Galway and Cork be a better investment? With a proper motorway, Limerick is less than hour from either Cork or Galway (90 kms on a 120 km/h road). But no, people shouted, and rather than build a motorway, they went a built a university.

Imo, we as a country, have no need for another university, wherever you wish to locate it. We don't have the student numbers to justify it, we don't have the money to pay for it considering how little we need it, we already sell our existing universities short through under-funding. We'd be better off improving both our existing universities and providing the infrastructure to make people realise 100k isn't a huge distance.

+1.

Amazotheamazing

invincibleirish wrote: »

2. Shannon is an airport this is a university question, they are both white elephant projects. But just because one exists doesnt mean the other has to be built.

Actually Shannon is a good example. The west coast of Ireland is served by Kerry Airport, Shannon, Galway and Knock.

A small stretch of coast, not particularly highly populated, has 4 airports. Why? Parochialism, and no other reason.

The West would be better served by one proper airport which is connected to the regional towns by motorways and rail-lines where appropriate, rather than dividing business between four struggling airports. After all, the Southwest is near Cork Airport and the Northwest is near Derry Airport.

To me, the university argument is much the same. People want a university without regard to how it fits into the bigger picture.

Sully

Id love to see a University in the South East. I think it would do great for the region and give a boost that is much needed. Waterford has been neglected, like a lot of the South East, by the government. No matter how much anti-waterford or anti-south east comments people can make on Boards, people in the region are going to fight on and try get a slice of the cake everywhere else is getting.

WIT has potential, I give it that, and I do support the campaign (perhaps not big time, but I support it) but the whole Education system in Ireland is a shambles. We need to re-think our structure of how University's are run and what they provide. I think Trinity is the only proper University and the rest are just big secondary schools. Adding another University to the mess that is our education system (and for **** sake, two of them in Cork is just sad) I think is not addressing the problem. We need to look at our Education system, re-organise and structure it before we give anymore University applications the approval.

I do think once this has happened, it should be the time to locate a University in the South East. Universities should not be kept in one location only, or in regions just outside of Dublin. There should be good university's spread out over Ireland but I think what a university is and how its run needs to be thought out.

Waterford, like Cork, is a city. This little island of ours has our own way of dividing up towns from city's and thats just fact. Dont go compare it with EU Law or how they do it in the rest of Europe. Anyway, thats a different topic and its not part of this so thats all ill say and dont drag it out in this topic.

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

Id love to see a University in the South East. I think it would do great for the region and give a boost that is much needed. Waterford has been neglected, like a lot of the South East, by the government. No matter how much anti-waterford or anti-south east comments people can make on Boards, people in the region are going to fight on and try get a slice of the cake everywhere else is getting.

WIT has potential, I give it that, and I do support the campaign (perhaps not big time, but I support it) but the whole Education system in Ireland is a shambles. We need to re-think our structure of how University's are run and what they provide. I think Trinity is the only proper University and the rest are just big secondary schools. Adding another University to the mess that is our education system (and for **** sake, two of them in Cork is just sad) I think is not addressing the problem. We need to look at our Education system, re-organise and structure it before we give anymore University applications the approval.

I do think once this has happened, it should be the time to locate a University in the South East. Universities should not be kept in one location only, or in regions just outside of Dublin. There should be good university's spread out over Ireland but I think what a university is and how its run needs to be thought out.

Waterford, like Cork, is a city. This little island of ours has our own way of dividing up towns from city's and thats just fact. Dont go compare it with EU Law or how they do it in the rest of Europe. Anyway, thats a different topic and its not part of this so thats all ill say and dont drag it out in this topic.

Well put Sully. I'm laughing at the whole 'parochial' accusation from the Cork & Limerick lobby. FFS they''ve been at it for years (and have reaped the rewards). But now they want to exclude anyone else from lobbying (or parochialism as they term it) for equal treatment.

And what the hell has whether or not I attended University got to to with anything? I pay the same taxes, ergo I am entitled to equality of treatment and services. Parochial? Like Cork's hissy-fit when WRTC was upgraded to WIT?

I'm accused of 'getting personal' by pointing out some very obvious facts. Posters like InvincibleIrish and Amazo truly amaze me. They have everything on their doorsteps but are trying their damndest to prevent others from seeking likewise.

It's a very sad thing to see other Irish people trying to prevent the natural development and progress of their neighbours. When Waterford gets a Uni I, for one, would have no problem with another area (i.e. NW) looking for, or being granted, a University).

Ansd Mike - it's very sad to see a Waterford person trying to agrgue against the case......unless you only happen to be living there - and are not affected by the outcome.

The economic growth and development whih a University will bring is there for all to see. They're tangible results. Look West and south towards our petulant and begridging Cork and Limerick neighbours for the examples of it.

Freddie59

invincibleirish wrote: »

people are arrogant because there isnt a single coherent reason for upgrading WITs status.

People are arrogant because of petty parochial begrudgery. Parochialism at its worst my friend. People in Cork must have degrees in it.

mike65

And Mike - it's very sad to see a Waterford person trying to agrgue against the case......unless you only happen to be living there - and are not affected by the outcome.

Two different arguments in this thread really.

I said there are parochial reasons, nationally there is no justification. As Sully concurs - the funding and standards here are low another second rate insitution adds nothing except for us directly (extra jobs) and thats the only arugument for one.

Mike.

Amazotheamazing

Freddie59 wrote: »

Well put Sully. I'm laughing at the whole 'parochial' accusation from the Cork & Limerick lobby. FFS they''ve been at it for years (and have reaped the rewards). But now they want to exclude anyone else from lobbying (or parochialism as they term it) for equal treatment.

And what the hell has whether or not I attended University got to to with anything? I pay the same taxes, ergo I am entitled to equality of treatment and services. Parochial? Like Cork's hissy-fit when WRTC was upgraded to WIT?

I'm accused of 'getting personal' by pointing out some very obvious facts. Posters like InvincibleIrish and Amazo truly amaze me. They have everything on their doorsteps but are trying their damndest to prevent others from seeking likewise.

It's a very sad thing to see other Irish people trying to prevent the natural development and progress of their neighbours. When Waterford gets a Uni I, for one, would have no problem with another area (i.e. NW) looking for, or being granted, a University).

Ansd Mike - it's very sad to see a Waterford person trying to agrgue against the case......unless you only happen to be living there - and are not affected by the outcome.

The economic growth and development whih a University will bring is there for all to see. They're tangible results. Look West and south towards our petulant and begridging Cork and Limerick neighbours for the examples of it.

I'm sorry, did you miss my point when I asked if Ireland needs another university?

I've always said I could see why Waterford wants one, I just don't see why Ireland needs one? You can keep calling me names if you want, but maybe, just maybe the reason Waterford hasn't gotten a university so far isn't because the country hates the South-East (as you seem to think) but that Ireland doesn't need one?

You haven't answered any of my points, about falling numbers, about under-funding, etc, instead you seem to think this is just a case of people from the rest of Ireland out to get you.

Btw, since when did Limerick have everything at it's door-step? I could sit here and waste your time with a long list of things we'd love from central Government, but I'm sure you wouldn't believe a paradise such as Limerick could lack anything.

Freddie59

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'm sorry, did you miss my point when I asked if Ireland needs another university?

I've always said I could see why Waterford wants one, I just don't see why Ireland needs one? You can keep calling me names if you want, but maybe, just maybe the reason Waterford hasn't gotten a university so far isn't because the country hates the South-East (as you seem to think) but that Ireland doesn't need one?

You haven't answered any of my points, about falling numbers, about under-funding, etc, instead you seem to think this is just a case of people from the rest of Ireland out to get you.

Btw, since when did Limerick have everything at it's door-step? I could sit here and waste your time with a long list of things we'd love from central Government, but I'm sure you wouldn't believe a paradise such as Limerick could lack anything.

Who said the country hates the South East? I specifically mentioned Cork and Limerick. And both yourself and InvicibleIrish have proven my point.

Cork, along with the mid-West have been well taken care of in the past thirty years. Waterford has been ignored during that time. A simple fact. Now that we have a chance to bring ourselves up to the levels of the other four cities (and remember Waterford is the oldest City in Ireland), the whinging from Cork, and now - for some extraordinary reason - Limerick is sickening to put it mildly.

invincibleirish

Freddie59 wrote: »

Who said the country hates the South East? I specifically mentioned Cork and Limerick. And both yourself and InvicibleIrish have proven my point.

Cork, along with the mid-West have been well taken care of in the past thirty years. Waterford has been ignored during that time. A simple fact. Now that we have a chance to bring ourselves up to the levels of the other four cities (and remember Waterford is the oldest City in Ireland), the whinging from Cork, and now - for some extraordinary reason - Limerick is sickening to put it mildly.

You are talking crap. simple. Waterford isnt owed anything from this state. Who gives a **** if Waterford is the oldest *city* in Ireland, what has that got to do with anything. You are the one with the parochial attitude expecting Waterford to get everything just because Cork/Limerick have stuff. UCC is 160 years old FFS! How has Cork "been well taken care of"?.


Take off the blinkers and learn!

invincibleirish

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Btw, since when did Limerick have everything at it's door-step? I could sit here and waste your time with a long list of things we'd love from central Government, but I'm sure you wouldn't believe a paradise such as Limerick could lack anything.

Every region in the country can say the same thing. The point is to paraphase Mick Jagger we cant always get what we want.

This latest local campaign and the reasoning behind is awful. When will our government grow up and tell Waterford why it cant have a University.

Sully

invincibleirish wrote: »

You are talking crap. simple. Waterford isnt owed anything from this state. Who gives a **** if Waterford is the oldest *city* in Ireland, what has that got to do with anything. You are the one with the parochial attitude expecting Waterford to get everything just because Cork/Limerick have stuff. UCC is 160 years old FFS!


Take off the blinkers and learn!

So I take it then you think that everywhere else should develop and be assisted by the government but places down in the South East should be ignored because there not important?

Iv noticed in a lot of your posts (not in the University topic but outside of it) your very anti-waterford. I think you should just be ignored at this stage, as no matter what anyone says your gonna dispute it. There is no point talking to someone who wont reason.

Regardless, Waterford and the South East have been neglicted. Its a city, its the oldest city. Its a popular city, with popular towns surrounding it. Its improving finally, but Waterford and the south east should not be neglicted or ignored and should grow and receive support just like all other citys throughout Ireland. Waterford is part of this country whether you like it or not and should be developed to its full potential. Saying that, its not just the governments fault. Developers refuse to go here because of Brendan McCann. We lost Marks & Spencers because they cant agree on a location with Bredan. The council are afraid of their ****e to stand up and tell him where to go.

invincibleirish

Sully wrote: »

So I take it then you think that everywhere else should develop and be assisted by the government but places down in the South East should be ignored because there not important?

Iv noticed in a lot of your posts (not in the University topic but outside of it) your very anti-waterford. I think you should just be ignored at this stage, as no matter what anyone says your gonna dispute it. There is no point talking to someone who wont reason.

Regardless, Waterford and the South East have been neglicted. Its a city, its the oldest city. Its a popular city, with popular towns surrounding it. Its improving finally, but Waterford and the south east should not be neglicted or ignored and should grow and receive support just like all other citys throughout Ireland. Waterford is part of this country whether you like it or not and should be developed to its full potential. Saying that, its not just the governments fault. Developers refuse to go here because of Brendan McCann. We lost Marks & Spencers because they cant agree on a location with Bredan. The council are afraid of their ****e to stand up and tell him where to go.

How has the Government neglected Waterford, give me an example? No region gets everything it wants, fact. a solid case has to be made for funding (usually, except the WRC), the case for upgrading WIT to University status has no leg to stand on, bar the argument "Cork/Limerick/Galway has one so should we, gimme gimme gimme..." Can you not see the logic behind my and others posts? (its not an anti Waterford bias either(rolleyes if it still existed). My idea of 'reasoning' with somone as you put it isnt to agree with them.

My tone on issues with regards to Waterford can be rather up front but im trying to make simple points, its nothing to do with perceived prejudices its the nonsense (and i mean that in the nicest possible sense;)) arguments put forward on issues like WIT.

As for ignoring me, fine go ahead but i find that rather silly, no one on this thread can dispute the points i and others have made, just because i dont agree with your arguments or attempt to find a middle ground like Amazotheamazing. if you think im trolling ban me.

blanko

invincibleirish wrote: »

How has the Government neglected Waterford, give me an example? No region gets everything it wants, fact. a solid case has to be made for funding (usually, except the WRC), the case for upgrading WIT to University status has no leg to stand on, bar the argument "Cork/Limerick/Galway has one so should we, gimme gimme gimme..." Can you not see the logic behind my and others posts? (its not an anti Waterford bias either(rolleyes if it still existed). My idea of 'reasoning' with somone as you put it isnt to agree with them.

The perceived neglect of Waterford is an age old gripe with some evidence. It happens because the region is politically fragmented- drive twenty minutes out of the city and you will be in four different (Tipp, Wexford, Kilkenny and Waterford County) local authorities, all hustling for themselves (other cities have this too eg. Limerick has Ennis, but none as pronounced). 40% of people working in my workplace are from Kilkenny- they vote in Kilkenny for Kilkenny issues. Unlike Galway and Limerick- there are a number of large population centres, that fall into different political units, within the Cities hinterland that compete for resources and services- Kilkenny, Wexford, New Ross, Tramore and Dungarvan. This drags the focus and intensity away from the city.

Waterford was a little different economically from Cork and Limerick in that it had Irish owned industry that thrived during the difficult 1980s and as a result it did not get (nor need) IDA supported jobs. As Waterford Crystal entered decline the city was desperately over exposed to one employer (like Cork was to Ford and Dunlop and Galway was to Digital) and during the late 1990s the city entered a decline as the rest of the country partied. So much of the soreness in the City comes from rising unemployment, declining standard of living, low participation in third level, very low IDA lead investment.

A case in point is the main Dublin Waterford road- it is simply appalling and their is not national precedent- when a motorway was proposed there was national outcry at the waste- arguments not marshalled for Galway or Limericks. The South East has not had a radiotherapy service- so our relatives (and everyone in Ireland has had someone close to them taken by that horrible illness) are put up in B&Bs in Dublin as the stage the fight for the life (this happens elsewhere too- but for a region of 460,000 people it is economically justifiable). The Waterford airport has received no meaningful state funding and support and was not allocated any PSO contracts- whereas Knock, Galway, Kerry, Shannon have (rightly) been supported. Look at the hoopla that Shannon mustered when AerLingus pulled its flights out last summer. The last City manager took a promotion to Wexford, which has a higher pay grade. The city has suffered from under provision of new retail space and as a result many people drive to Dundrum, Kilkenny and Mahon Point for their retail therapy.

Cork, Limerick and Galway have always required a minister- yet Waterford (which is around the same size as both Galway and Limerick) has usually done with out. As a result at key decisions Waterford has not been represented. Waterford, and most of the other South Eastern constituencies have not spilled TDs blood over failure to deliver a fair share of the countries resources to the region. As there has been no cost to marginalising Waterford and the South East- there has been no change.

Is this the system we would like? No, but it is the one we have and as a region we need to play the game in front of us- just like the other regions. So for example when Jackie Heally-Rae gets a roof on a school in his constituency because he is holding up the government what happens is the DoE&S list of schools- which objectively prioritises works on a needs basis is interfered with. A more deserving school gets shafted for one with political muscle. This is the Gimme Gimme Gimme culture of Irish politics and the South East is just starting to play.

invincibleirish

blanko wrote: »

Is this the system we would like? No, but it is the one we have and as a region we need to play the game in front of us- just like the other regions. So for example when Jackie Heally-Rae gets a roof on a school in his constituency because he is holding up the government what happens is the DoE&S list of schools- which objectively prioritises works on a needs basis is interfered with. A more deserving school gets shafted for one with political muscle. This is the Gimme Gimme Gimme culture of Irish politics and the South East is just starting to play.

To keep this in context ill reply to your last and presumed main point.

What im understanding is because of a trend set by other regions of fighting long and hard to achieve a particular project, that Waterford has decided that to persue a need to get a University above all else is going to be the main 'issue' as such, the kind of thing that people vote for on.

Now what i will say to that is thats fair enough.

Now understand my viewpoint. On the University issue itself:

1) Irelands current Universities face a funding shortfall for now and the foreseeable future

2) Irelands Universities struggle to keep up with rival Universities around the world.

3) if WIT gets University status then other ITs would have a legitimate claim to upgrade as well, citing WIT as their example.

4) DIT has been campaigning to be a University for years, they have been declined on the basis that there is no need for more Universities, we can take this then to mean that it is Government policy to restrict University numbers to their present levels.

5)After massive expansion in recent years our current Universities now are competing with one another for students, there are more course places then students, there is enough capacity for Irelands needs

Now on the Wider issues

1)There is already a thread on Waterfords roads needs, trust me Waterford has got the best deal of any regional city.(despite taking years to be built).

2) your point is based on the basis that what Cork/Limerick/Galways getsWaterford should get. i Disagree, this country cant afford to spend lavishly on 4 seperate regions (and not forgetting spending on the Core Region that is the Greater Dublin Area, that subsidizes places like Waterford).

3) I disagree vehemently with the notion that each area is owed a Minister, its unhealthy parish pump politics which seriously damages this country. I know Minister Cullen is the Minister for Waterford and its with great regret that despite some disasters on his watch, he still retains a ministry because of his location and 'delivers' for Waterford. You citing Jackie Healy Rea in your reply preturbs me as its indicative of how people view politics in this country.

Sully

Your question to me has already been answered. Iv already made my point on the university issue, and I dont see you disputing it so we must agree on some part of it. However, I do get the impression (not just for University) you dont like Waterford. I doubt its because we keep asking for stuff, because we dont often get it. Cork gets a lot of attention, which I think is great (I like Cork, and think the Airport is very useful) as do other areas (Limerick tends to be for the wrong reasons lately though :P). Do you like anything about Waterford or feel Waterford needs anything at all or do you belive it should rot away as it is?

invincibleirish

Sully wrote: »

Your question to me has already been answered. Iv already made my point on the university issue, and I dont see you disputing it so we must agree on some part of it. However, I do get the impression (not just for University) you dont like Waterford. I doubt its because we keep asking for stuff, because we dont often get it. Cork gets a lot of attention, which I think is great (I like Cork, and think the Airport is very useful) as do other areas (Limerick tends to be for the wrong reasons lately though :P). Do you like anything about Waterford or feel Waterford needs anything at all or do you belive it should rot away as it is?

Do i really have to reply to this?, do i have to justify my personal feelings for Waterford in order to make criticism?
Ok so...

I find Waterford to be a pleasant place, i have been there in Summertime. Dunmore east & Passage east (area looking over the sea 10mins outside Waterford city) is pleasant. I have been out in Waterford. In particular i have frequented a rather curious nightclub called The Forum. But i enjoyed myself. On the whole Waterford is a lovely place and the N25 drive (some fine parts) back to Civili..Er Cork (only joking;)) is rather lovely. In Addition Dungarvan is also great and i know, individually, at least 2 very nice Waterford people. Hope that clears up any perception of anti Waterford-ness. Oh and Dan Shanahan is truly deserving of his status. Great player.

Do i believe Waterford should 'rot away'? no of course not. but i find the arguments for a University in particular futile in the extreme. Some of the arguments used on this thread by some Waterford posters (when they werent attacking a posters origins(:rolleyes:)) have been truly dreadful and been treated with contempt.

Its a good thing Waterford folk are interested in higher education funding.And i admire the cities ability to rally to causes, But i think Waterford has firstly placed too much hope on this University suddenly easing its problems. A University takes years to establish and develop as centres of excellence in different fields. And Universities cost money. money this country probably doesnt have right now.

Secondly, referring to the points i made above my previous post, the national interest has to be reconciled with local interests, and whilst at a local level it appears there is near unanimity on the issue, the luke warm reception it has got at a national level is indictive that the project isnt really a good idea.

Freddie59

invincibleirish wrote: »

To keep this in context ill reply to your last and presumed main point.

What im understanding is because of a trend set by other regions of fighting long and hard to achieve a particular project, that Waterford has decided that to persue a need to get a University above all else is going to be the main 'issue' as such, the kind of thing that people vote for on.

Now what i will say to that is thats fair enough.

Now understand my viewpoint. On the University issue itself:

1) Irelands current Universities face a funding shortfall for now and the foreseeable future

2) Irelands Universities struggle to keep up with rival Universities around the world.

3) if WIT gets University status then other ITs would have a legitimate claim to upgrade as well, citing WIT as their example.

4) DIT has been campaigning to be a University for years, they have been declined on the basis that there is no need for more Universities, we can take this then to mean that it is Government policy to restrict University numbers to their present levels.

5)After massive expansion in recent years our current Universities now are competing with one another for students, there are more course places then students, there is enough capacity for Irelands needs

Now on the Wider issues

1)There is already a thread on Waterfords roads needs, trust me Waterford has got the best deal of any regional city.(despite taking years to be built).

2) your point is based on the basis that what Cork/Limerick/Galways getsWaterford should get. i Disagree, this country cant afford to spend lavishly on 4 seperate regions (and not forgetting spending on the Core Region that is the Greater Dublin Area, that subsidizes places like Waterford).

3) I disagree vehemently with the notion that each area is owed a Minister, its unhealthy parish pump politics which seriously damages this country. I know Minister Cullen is the Minister for Waterford and its with great regret that despite some disasters on his watch, he still retains a ministry because of his location and 'delivers' for Waterford. You citing Jackie Healy Rea in your reply preturbs me as its indicative of how people view politics in this country.

My God, your animosity towards Waterford knows no bounds. "Places like Waterford". What exactly do you mean by that? And as for the Minister for Waterford remark? There have been many, many Ministers for Cork and Limerick my friend. It has been pointed out - ad nauseum - in this thread why Waterford - and the surrounding region - is crying out for equal status. There are five cities in Ireland. Waterford (the oldest) is one of them. Four of the five have at least one University to serve their hinterland. The distortion in favour of the West is evident - with two Unis 50 miles apart.

Your remark regarding the other IT's claim is also rubbish. That was driven by CIT last time around Don't try to deny it. You ask us to understand your viewpoint. How can we? When your viewpoint is to stymie Waterford's development, fearing what it might cause for Cork. Pure begrudgery. You can dress this up any way you like - but that's what it's down to. Simple, petty, begrudgery.

You constantly trot out the parochialism and parish pump arguments in order to validate your extremely weak points. This is what Cork have been at for years - and still are. When Cork do it it's called lobbying for a fair share. Yet when a City like Waterford does it you call it parish pump politics.

The country is changing my friend. Cork no longer has the political pull that it used to have. Get used to it.

Bduffman

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Why not go further and have one university department in every town in the country? Maybe the entire campus idea is outdated? .

Because a university dept in every townin the country would be stupid. We are talking about a university in a relatively neglected part of the country. The amount of people who go to dublin, cork etc to get a uni place is seriously draining the region of talent.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Waterford University is nothing but a vanity project, if the Gov decided to up WIT"s funding but keep it an IT everyone would lose the plot and say that although they aren't snobs, the name university is really important etc.

Where are you from? I'll bet somewhere near a university right? So if that teh case how would you like it if the college near you lost its university status? Would you simply regard it as a vanity project then?

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

Come on then tell me, what Unis programmes are getting cuts? where should cuts be to satisfy another regional whinge? Why dont you come to my University UCC and shut down half the place so Waterford can feel better?.

Ah well - you lot in cork will be grand - especially if your new education minister gets a SECOND university for cork. What I am saying is that it makes sense for the amount of university places to be regionally based. Of course your own 'regional whinge' will be pretty shrill if that happens. But then I suppose a cork 'whinge' is more important than a Waterford 'whinge'

mike65

Wow so much heat and so little light. A summation of all that wrong with politics in this state.

Mike.

invincibleirish

Freddie59 wrote: »

My God, your animosity towards Waterford knows no bounds. "Places like Waterford". What exactly do you mean by that? And as for the Minister for Waterford remark? There have been many, many Ministers for Cork and Limerick my friend. It has been pointed out - ad nauseum - in this thread why Waterford - and the surrounding region - is crying out for equal status. There are five cities in Ireland. Waterford (the oldest) is one of them. Four of the five have at least one University to serve their hinterland. The distortion in favour of the West is evident - with two Unis 50 miles apart.

Your remark regarding the other IT's claim is also rubbish. That was driven by CIT last time around Don't try to deny it. You ask us to understand your viewpoint. How can we? When your viewpoint is to stymie Waterford's development, fearing what it might cause for Cork. Pure begrudgery. You can dress this up any way you like - but that's what it's down to. Simple, petty, begrudgery.

You constantly trot out the parochialism and parish pump arguments in order to validate your extremely weak points. This is what Cork have been at for years - and still are. When Cork do it it's called lobbying for a fair share. Yet when a City like Waterford does it you call it parish pump politics.

The country is changing my friend. Cork no longer has the political pull that it used to have. Get used to it.

Do you even read my posts? Just because you dont like my valid points (shamelessly picked up from the press admittedly) or where im from.

What are my weak points? you seem to be in the know, tell me where im wrong? Im going to bet money you are completely wrong and misinformed, i await your reply with interest.(please use the points made in my previous post as a basis to argue, dont give me any more half baked nonsense like what ive just quoted)

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

Ah well - you lot in cork will be grand - especially if your new education minister gets a SECOND university for cork. What I am saying is that it makes sense for the amount of university places to be regionally based. Of course your own 'regional whinge' will be pretty shrill if that happens. But then I suppose a cork 'whinge' is more important than a Waterford 'whinge'

I dont think CIT or any other University deserves University status(with the potential exception of DIT) even if 'my' education minister gives CIT uni status (which i dont think he will), you may or not have missed the point ive made in every other post on this thread where i specifically said Ireland has enough Universities to meet demand, Current Universities dont have enough fund.....no wait im wasting my time arguing this arent i?

One more thing, GET OVER WHERE I AM FROM, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN ARGUING ABOUT CORK AND 'WHAT IT GETS'. ITS IRRELEVANT TO THE ISSUE, I DONT LIKE OR SUPPORT PAROCHIAL POLITICS AND ME FEINER ATTITUTES WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT A LOT OF OF THIS UNIVERSITY ARGUMENT IS ABOUT.

5ForKeeps

Hopefully, for the City of Waterford and the South East region that University Status is granted. The region needs it badly.

Sully

invincibleirish wrote: »

I dont think CIT or any other University deserves University status(with the potential exception of DIT) even if 'my' education minister gives CIT uni status (which i dont think he will), you may or not have missed the point ive made in every other post on this thread where i specifically said Ireland has enough Universities to meet demand, Current Universities dont have enough fund.....no wait im wasting my time arguing this arent i?

Im confused. You think we have enough, bar DIT?

One more thing, GET OVER WHERE I AM FROM, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN ARGUING ABOUT CORK AND 'WHAT IT GETS'. ITS IRRELEVANT TO THE ISSUE, I DONT LIKE OR SUPPORT PAROCHIAL POLITICS AND ME FEINER ATTITUTES WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT A LOT OF OF THIS UNIVERSITY ARGUMENT IS ABOUT.

Typical cork mans response. (just kidding with ya )

invincibleirish

Sully wrote: »

Im confused. You think we have enough, bar DIT?



Typical cork mans response. (just kidding with ya )

I do think Ireland has enough Unis, However DIT has had an ongoing campaign for years to achieve University status. I believe the consensus is that DIT is already a University in all but name. If any 1 IT was to be upgraded on merit, it would be DIT methinks.

But of course they shouldnt get University status, the regions would expect likewise for their ITs.

Sully

Well I think a lot of people would say the same about WIT who have been campaigning for years also (IIRC).

invincibleirish

Sully wrote: »

Well I think a lot of people would say the same about WIT who have been campaigning for years also (IIRC).

Yes and guess what?. DITs application was rejected, so hopefully will WITs, why? we have enough Universities.

Again i make the point if the Government were going to upgrade an IT, then DIT would be the obvious choice.

Its not just about WIT. DIT, CIT and probably a few other ITs can all legitimately ask why can they not have Uni status if WIT gets it. Waterford argues as if its a special case. It isnt.

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yes and guess what?. DITs application was rejected, so hopefully will WITs, why? we have enough Universities.

Again i make the point if the Government were going to upgrade an IT, then DIT would be the obvious choice.

Its not just about WIT. DIT, CIT and probably a few other ITs can all legitimately ask why can they not have Uni status if WIT gets it. Waterford argues as if its a special case. It isnt.

20 Years ago WRTC was being upgraded to WIT by Labour, in order to remove it from the RTC category with the future intention of designating it to UCW - But the plan got scuppered by the Cork Lobby/Whinge in the new govt at the time by Michael Martin