WIT University

invincibleirish

Psychedelic wrote: »

so what if it takes years to build up the benefits, if we don't have a university we will never have those benefits. and in case you forgot waterford and the south east pay taxes too.



waterford people care. if cork didn't have a university, would you like if the rest of the country said "who gives a **** if less cork students go to university"? you are almost saying to us "who gives a **** about waterford."



we are not saying everyone deserves a university on their doorstep. we are just asking for what all the other cities have.

1. Waterford receives more in social transfers then it pays out.

2. Universities arent county institutions like GAA teams, i say who cares if Waterford has a Uni or not, you are still able to get a University education if you want. tell me how many people do you know who didnt go to University because there isnt one in Waterford?

3. Waterford isnt a city. Its a big town, dont bother getting touchy about it. Waterford has an excellent IT, just like all other areas of similar size.

KingLoser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Bit of an oblique argument though isn't it. Ireland as it is doesn't have enough students for it's universities, creating another one won't help that much. Like has been pointed out, Irish universities are already under-funded, creating another one won't help that either.

Honestly, ask yourself what's best for the Irish University sector and see if the same thing is best for Waterford. I don't think it is, and that's the problem WIT hasn't been able to answer.

It's really only oblique because you keep returning to a null point.

Basically what you're saying is what's best for the country is what is damaging to Waterford. For someone trying to make an "All-Ireland" argument, you're neglecting a corner.

Oh, just like the Government. Snap!

Here's a map to help make our point:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=19&msid=115939099758633883355.00044d1772aeac5d94764

Everything's explained in the key, but it's basically a (very... VERY rough) 50 mile radius around all the Uni's in the country.

Where's Wally?

Amazotheamazing

Psychedelic wrote: »

well to extend your logic here I could say that we should downgrade 2 or 3 existing universities as that would be best for the Irish University sector as the remaning 4 universities would have much more funding available. how about we downgrade UL, UCC and NUIG so the rest can prosper?

and as was mentioned by fricatus our population is growing and thus the number of students will grow too, so there will be a need for more places.

I already said we have too many universities, imo. So I take you're finally starting to see sense?

invincibleirish

Psychedelic wrote: »

how about we downgrade UL, UCC and NUIG so the rest can prosper?

and as was mentioned by fricatus our population is growing and thus the number of students will grow too, so there will be a need for more places.

1. Why should they be downgraded for any University?

2.Fricatus statistics arent exactly concrete.

Its fairly clear from most of the posters on this thread that their justification for a University is based on half truths, 'assumed' statistics, county pride and whatever else. In otherwords nothing substantial.

RoyalMarine

i dont think we have too many. infact i think waterford is a perfect location for a university.

mainly because im going there in september but hey. alls good.

invincibleirish

KingLoser wrote: »

Here's a map to help make our point:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=19&msid=115939099758633883355.00044d1772aeac5d94764

Everything's explained in the key, but it's basically a (very... VERY rough) 50 mile radius around all the Uni's in the country.

Where's Wally?

This is Ireland not the USA, this is the same kind of logic used to justify many a regional vanity project

'this airport is 60 miles away, lets build one on the middle of nowhere in our county.

'we deserve a motorway and rail line to dublin ,after all if x y z county has one then we deserve one too'


etc. etc. etc....

People move away to go to University, its a fact of life. I do it FFS.

Psychedelic

invincibleirish wrote: »

Oh dear! i think you fail to grasp the notion of critical mass. Sligo is stranded out on its own! At least Letterkenny is close to Derry so that'll make it easier to go between the two. Who is going to go to Sligo University:p.

The population of Waterford City is 46,736 and there is a population of 335,000 within a 60km radius of the city (Census 2002 i.e. not a half truth or made up). There's your critical mass.

you are still able to get a University education if you want.

yes but it will cost us way more to go to university compared to people in the other cities.

tell me how many people do you know who didnt go to University because there isnt one in Waterford?

well i didn't go to university because there isn't one in waterford.

Why should they be downgraded for any University?

sorry you misunderstood, i don't think they should be downgraded. i was just pointing out the flaw in Amazotheamazing's reasoning.

Waterford isnt a city. Its a big town, dont bother getting touchy about it.

Waterford is a city under Irish law, end of story.

Bduffman

Psychedelic wrote: »

so what if it takes years to build up the benefits, if we don't have a university we will never have those benefits. and in case you forgot waterford and the south east pay taxes too.

waterford people care. if cork didn't have a university, would you like if the rest of the country said "who gives a **** if less cork students go to university"? you are almost saying to us "who gives a **** about waterford."

we are not saying everyone deserves a university on their doorstep. we are just asking for what all the other cities have.

Thanks psychedelic - you pretty much said what I was going to say.

invincibleirish - read your post again & replace Waterford & the SE with 'Cork' & see how we might view your comments - not nice is it?

invincibleirish

Psychedelic wrote: »

The population of Waterford City is 46,736 and there is a population of 335,000 within a 60km radius of the city (Census 2002 i.e. not a half truth or made up). There's your critical mass.


yes but it will cost us way more to go to university compared to people in the other cities.



well i didn't go to university because there isn't one in waterford.



sorry you misunderstood, i don't think they should be downgraded. i was just pointing out the flaw in Amazotheamazing's reasoning.




Waterford is a city under Irish law, end of story.

1. Ill answer the critical mass Q for you, you are adding counties populations together and assuming that is it. it isnt. That 335k is just the total population of the SE area, I doubt Waterfords total urban area reaches 100k.

2. So what if it will cost you money? newsflash sunshine most students in every university arent from the City they are located in.

3.What did you want to study at University?

4. Waterford is designated as a City, but i see nowhere in legislation meaning it is entitled to what other bigger cities get.

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

invincibleirish - read your post again & replace Waterford & the SE with 'Cork' & see how we might view your comments - not nice is it?

I hurt your feelings, on the Internet, build the proverbial bridge.....:cool:

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

People move away to go to University, its a fact of life.

Unless you live in Dublin, Cork, Limerick or Galway.

Amazotheamazing

invincibleirish wrote: »

This is Ireland not the USA, this is the same kind of logic used to justify many a regional vanity project

'this airport is 60 miles away, lets build one on the middle of nowhere in our county.

'we deserve a motorway and rail line to dublin ,after all if x y z county has one then we deserve one too'


etc. etc. etc....

People move away to go to University, its a fact of life.

Exactly. People need to remind themselves of how small Ireland is, and as the road network improves, it's getting smaller.

I guess Munster should build a 26,000 seater rugby stadium in Waterford too, after all, Limerick has one so surely Waterford deserves one too?

Amazotheamazing

Bduffman wrote: »

Unless you live in Dublin, Cork, Limerick or Galway.

Not really, not every university offers the same courses. I left Limerick for university, infact, most of my class in Galway weren't from Galway. Weird that, isn't it?

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

I hurt your feelings, on the Internet, build the proverbial bridge.....:cool:

No not really - just reading your comments & opinions on Waterford - they have very little to do with the merits of a Waterford University & a lot to do with your own low opinion of the city

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

Unless you live in Dublin, Cork, Limerick or Galway.

Well im from West Cork originally, and i live in Cork City to go to UCC(and was in UL for a year), there are many who do the same as i do, maybe i should get onto my TD and demand a University of Clonakilty? I mean why should i have to move away to go and study at a University, I pay tax!

Clonakilty has at least 200k population in a 60km radius and has a very succesful Agricultural college, methinks the inevitable next step is an upgrade, death to anyone who disagrees with me!

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

1. Ill answer the critical mass Q for you, you are adding counties populations together and assuming that is it. it isnt. That 335k is just the total population of the SE area, I doubt Waterfords total urban area reaches 100k.

2. So what if it will cost you money? newsflash sunshine most students in every university arent from the City they are located in.

3.What did you want to study at University?

4. Waterford is designated as a City, but i see nowhere in legislation meaning it is entitled to what other bigger cities get.

S.E Population stats is 460,838 Source -http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popofeachprovcountycity2006.htm

total within 60Km of Waterford CIty is 335,000 Source -http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=146


South Tipp - 83,221
Waterford - 107,961
Carlow - 50,349
Kilkenny - 87,558
Wexford - 131,749

Total - 460,838

Bduffman

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Not really, not every university offers the same courses. I left Limerick for university, infact, most of my class in Galway weren't from Galway. Weird that, isn't it?

Thats not weird at all - Galway is not much bigger than Waterford so the majority are likely to be from outside Galway. Just like in a Waterford University - the majority would be from outside Waterford - probably from the rest of the SE - seeing as it will be a SE University.

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

Well im from West Cork originally, and i live in Cork City to go to UCC(and was in UL for a year), there are many who do the same as i do, maybe i should get onto my TD and demand a University of Clonakilty? I mean why should i have to move away to go and study at a University, I pay tax!

Clonakilty has at least 200k population in a 60km radius and has a very succesful Agricultural college, methinks the inevitable next step is an upgrade, death to anyone who disagrees with me!

Silly argument - we've already established that Cork doesn't need a second university.

Amazotheamazing

Bduffman wrote: »

Thats not weird at all - Galway is not much bigger than Waterford so the majority are likely to be from outside Galway. Just like in a Waterford University - the majority would be from outside Waterford - probably from the rest of the SE - seeing as it will be a SE University.

So, people from Waterford would still have to leave, only you expect more people to arrive in to replace them? I thought people from Waterford couldn't afford to leave?

What if a SE university was based in Carlow or Kilkenny?

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

S.E Population stats is 460,838 Source -http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popofeachprovcountycity2006.htm

total within 60Km of Waterford CIty is 335,000 Source -http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=146


South Tipp - 83,221
Waterford - 107,961
Carlow - 50,349
Kilkenny - 87,558
Wexford - 131,749

Total - 460,838

Yes well done qoute the county populations back at me. Im not disputing how many people live in these areas.

What i am disputing is Waterford the central area (ie the hub) of the area.

Northern Wexford is firmly in the GDA, as Is Carlow & Kilkenny (and their own substantial sized towns)

South Tipp is as Close to Limerick & Cork as Waterford.

So what point are you trying to make?

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yes well done qoute the county populations back at me. Im not disputing how many people live in these areas.

What i am disputing is Waterford the central area (ie the hub) of the area.

Northern Wexford is firmly in the GDA, as Is Carlow & Kilkenny (and their own substantial sized towns)

South Tipp is as Close to Limerick & Cork as Waterford.

So what point are you trying to make?

The S.E region is made up of these counties - FACT

are you disputing the IDA's figures?????

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

The S.E region is made up of these counties - FACT

are you disputing the IDA's figures?????

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let me Quote myself if i may from your post:

Yes well done quote the county populations back at me. Im not disputing how many people live in these areas.

What i am disputing is Waterford the central area (ie the hub) of the area.

Ant to follow on from that point, The SE designation comes from Waterford being unable to justify on its own having a Uni.

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

Silly argument - we've already established that Cork doesn't need a second university.

You took me seriously LOL!:D:confused::D

I just used logic very evident on this thread to justify Clon getting a Uni, now you know whats it like to read some of the pitiful arguments put forward on this thread.

Psychedelic

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I already said we have too many universities, imo. So I take you're finally starting to see sense?

i am already seeing sense! - waterford and the south east needs a university. what i meant was that if you think we already have too many universities then you should think that we should downgrade some of our existing universities.

invincibleirish wrote: »

This is Ireland not the USA, this is the same kind of logic used to justify many a regional vanity project

ah come on ffs, this is not a vanity project or whim as you keep referring to it as.

People move away to go to University, its a fact of life.

yes people in waterford move away to university, that's a fact alright. people in the other cities don't have to unless it's a specific course they want to study.

invincibleirish

And let me quote the IDA if i may from a link provided from you Bards in another thread:

http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=146

Third Level education in the South East Region is well represented with Waterford Institute of Technology, Institute of Technology Carlow, Carlow College and Tipperary Institute in Clonmel providing excellent under- and post-graduate programmes. Total graduate enrolment is in excess of 10,000 students with an additional 5,000 students in continuing education. Each of the third level Institutes have developed strong links with industry and significant research capabilities.

The SE seems to be doing ok to me (educationally that is).

road_high

invincibleirish wrote: »

Nonsense statistic. How long is the Commute? are the resources in place to facilitate such a commute. how many of those 300k are potential University students?

Look it might look well saying that the SE has 400k. it looks impressive but the reality is that Waterford has 50k. thats essentially a big town. If i could throw the cat amongst the pigeons then why cant Kilkenny city have a University? all your logic equally applies to them too. Or Carlow.

Well unlike the towns and cities of the south and mid west we here have kind of accepted that we all can't have a college or uni and as such Waterford/WIT is the institution that should be the south east uni designate.
And you stated KK as being in the GDA which I don't consider true anyhow, we make much more sense to be pegged in with Waterford and the rest.

And mentioning Clonalikity in the same context as Waterford is plain ridiculous..and anyways it's radius includes Cork itself which bear in mind already has UCC.

And why must you keep calling Waterford a town, you're just really tryinmg to get the blas backs up there !!!

invincibleirish

mfitzy wrote: »

Well unlike the towns and cities of the south and mid west we here have kind of accepted that we all can't have a college or uni and as such Waterford/WIT is the institution that should be the south east uni designate.
And you stated KK as being in the GDA which I don't consider true anyhow, we make much more sense to be pegged in with Waterford and the rest.

And mentioning Clonalikity in the same context as Waterford is plain ridiculous..and anyways it's radius includes Cork itself which bear in mind already has UCC.

And why must you keep calling Waterford a town, you're just really tryinmg to get the blas backs up there !!!

1. answer me this Q, yes or no? Do people commute from Kilkenny to Dublin?

2.As a matter of fact i would consider Kilkenny or Carlow to be the most practical location for a SE University. its central within the SE and easily accesible by Road & Rail from all over the country.

3.Clonakilty was mentioned in mirth to demonstrate a point. false logic can be used to justify anything and everything.

4. Look by EU standards the only city in the ROI is Dublin. Cork just about scrapes over the 200k barrier by virtue of its suburbs. The rest of the *cities* in any other countries would be classified as towns. Dont take it personally.

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

1. answer me this Q, yes or no? Do people commute from Kilkenny to Dublin?

2.As a matter of fact i would consider Kilkenny or Carlow to be the most practical location for a SE University. its central within the SE and easily accesible by Road & Rail from all over the country.

3.Clonakilty was mentioned in mirth to demonstrate a point. false logic can be used to justify anything and everything.

4. Look by EU standards the only city in the ROI is Dublin. Cork just about scrapes over the 200k barrier by virtue of its suburbs. The rest of the *cities* in any other countries would be classified as towns. Dont take it personally.

do people from Cork commute to Limerick?

invincibleirish

Psychedelic wrote: »

i am already seeing sense! - waterford and the south east needs a university. what i meant was that if you think we already have too many universities then you should think that we should downgrade some of our existing universities.



ah come on ffs, this is not a vanity project or whim as you keep referring to it as.


yes people in waterford move away to university, that's a fact alright. people in the other cities don't have to unless it's a specific course they want to study.

1. What Amazotheamazing is pointing out is that there are enough University places for Irelands needs. This is a good thing and has taken a decade to achieve. In the future this may change, but not for the timebeing.

2. I refer to it as a vanity project as its a regional demand.Regional demand has to be balanced out with the national interest. And as an upgrade to WIT will cost millions that will be payed for by the Irish Taxpayer, Do we not have a right to exercise our opinions and thoughts on the subject?

3. People dont go to Uni just because its in their city, they go to do a specific course, anyone at 3rd level will tell you that you pick a course to do, not a college to go to.

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

do people from Cork commute to Limerick?

Dont know,dont care its a silly Q to ask which has no relation to this thread. I asked a rhetorical Question. Irish Rail has laid on extra train services into Dublin from Kilkenny to meet the commuter demand.Kilkenny is in the GDA, Cork/Limerick aint;)