WIT University

Bards

Article from Independent.ie - March 21st 2007

http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/the-case-for-a-new-university-50585.html
==========================================================

The south-east region is now home to over 460,000 people and is the largest region in these islands that does not have a university.
This is a tremendous loss to Waterford and the south-east and hinders our ability to compete for high-end inward investment or to generate our own sustainable enterprises in key growth sectors.

If our region is to reduce the reliance on traditional manufacturing and agriculture for employment, then it is clear that we need a new driver of socio-economic development. The University of the South East can be just such a growth engine.

Researchers from the University of Strathclyde published a report last May on the growing economic importance of higher education in the UK. This showed that for every 100 university jobs in a city or region, a further 99 are created in the wider economy. They also reported that the higher education sector is now a larger contributor to the UK economy than the pharmaceutical industry and aircraft industry.

To apply another of their findings in our own context, for every €20m spent by University of the South East, an additional €30.4 million of output will be generated in other sectors of the economy.

In short, as well as opening out a new world of opportunity to our region and all who live there for generations to come, the University of the South East will drive regional economic growth and be a very substantial independent business entity, equivalent to the location in the south-east of at least two very large-scale inward investment projects.

Any lingering doubt that may have remained over the powerful economic case for University of the South East must surely have been dispelled by the publication on February 27 when the Central Statistics Office released income figures. These showed that in 2004 THE disposable income OF a person in the southeast was 8.8% below the national average - making it the lowest in any of this country's eight regional authority areas.

At 91.2%, the disposable income figure for the southeast was in marked contrast to the corresponding figures for the regions with universities - Dublin (111.8%); mid-east (98.1%); mid-west (100.3%); south-west (97.4%) and west (95.1%).

Dublin, Kildare, Limerick and Cork are the four counties with disposable incomes above the national average. There are other factors at play in the first two areas but, again, it is no coincidence that all four have universities.


Looking at the issue from a regional perspective, there are counties within the southeast that fare even worse than Waterford when the disposable income measure is applied and this should serve as a forceful reminder that the University of the South East is not only a key local issue but also a major regional imperative.

The simple lesson for the south-east of Ireland from this is that we will continue to swim against the tide without a university as the most gifted, creative and ambitious people migrate towards larger university cities to maximise their own incomes and fulfil their potential.

The low levels of participation in higher education and especially at university that are recorded in the southeast amount to another compelling argument for University of the South East.

Amazotheamazing

Bards wrote: »

do people from Cork commute to Limerick?

Some do, should we build them a motorway? maybe a university in Charleville, seems unfair that they have to be so far from a university while driving...

So, why do you honestly think Waterford doesn't have a uni? Just a determined hate campaign against Waterford, or simple realisation Ireland doesn't need another?

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

Dont know,dont care its a silly Q to ask which has no relation to this thread. I asked a rhetorical Question. Irish Rail has laid on extra train services into Dublin from Kilkenny to meet the commuter demand.Kilkenny is in the GDA, Cork/Limerick aint;)

because some people commute from Cork to Limerick I could imply that Cork is in the Greater Limerick area, just like you are implying that Kilkenny is in the GDA for the same reasons

Amazotheamazing

Bards wrote: »

Article from Independent.ie - March 21st 2007

http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/the-case-for-a-new-university-50585.html
==========================================================

The south-east region is now home to over 460,000 people and is the largest region in these islands that does not have a university.
This is a tremendous loss to Waterford and the south-east and hinders our ability to compete for high-end inward investment or to generate our own sustainable enterprises in key growth sectors.

If our region is to reduce the reliance on traditional manufacturing and agriculture for employment, then it is clear that we need a new driver of socio-economic development. The University of the South East can be just such a growth engine.

Researchers from the University of Strathclyde published a report last May on the growing economic importance of higher education in the UK. This showed that for every 100 university jobs in a city or region, a further 99 are created in the wider economy. They also reported that the higher education sector is now a larger contributor to the UK economy than the pharmaceutical industry and aircraft industry.

To apply another of their findings in our own context, for every €20m spent by University of the South East, an additional €30.4 million of output will be generated in other sectors of the economy.

In short, as well as opening out a new world of opportunity to our region and all who live there for generations to come, the University of the South East will drive regional economic growth and be a very substantial independent business entity, equivalent to the location in the south-east of at least two very large-scale inward investment projects.

Any lingering doubt that may have remained over the powerful economic case for University of the South East must surely have been dispelled by the publication on February 27 when the Central Statistics Office released income figures. These showed that in 2004 THE disposable income OF a person in the southeast was 8.8% below the national average - making it the lowest in any of this country's eight regional authority areas.

At 91.2%, the disposable income figure for the southeast was in marked contrast to the corresponding figures for the regions with universities - Dublin (111.8%); mid-east (98.1%); mid-west (100.3%); south-west (97.4%) and west (95.1%).

Dublin, Kildare, Limerick and Cork are the four counties with disposable incomes above the national average. There are other factors at play in the first two areas but, again, it is no coincidence that all four have universities.


Looking at the issue from a regional perspective, there are counties within the southeast that fare even worse than Waterford when the disposable income measure is applied and this should serve as a forceful reminder that the University of the South East is not only a key local issue but also a major regional imperative.

The simple lesson for the south-east of Ireland from this is that we will continue to swim against the tide without a university as the most gifted, creative and ambitious people migrate towards larger university cities to maximise their own incomes and fulfil their potential.

The low levels of participation in higher education and especially at university that are recorded in the southeast amount to another compelling argument for University of the South East.

Great, no-one has said a uni wouldn't be nice for Waterford, just that Ireland doesn't need another uni. You seem to be really struggling with this concept.

Regional imperative is another phrase for "parochialism"

Psychedelic

To invincibleirish and Amazotheamazing:
- do you think waterford or the south east should ever have a university?
- is there any particular criteria where you would agree that there should be a univeristy here?

I refer to it as a vanity project as its a regional demand.Regional demand has to be balanced out with the national interest. And as an upgrade to WIT will cost millions that will be payed for by the Irish Taxpayer, Do we not have a right to exercise our opinions and thoughts on the subject?

so then every regional demand is just a vanity project? so limerick and the west demanding to keep the shannon airport routes to heathrow is just a vanity project?

of course you have a right to express your concerns about Irish taxes being used to fund a new university. the upgrade to WIT will cost millions, but it won't cost millions on top of the existing funds to universities. as far as i understand, if WIT is to be upgraded, then the university funding 'pie' will just be divided into 8 instead of 7, so it's not actually costing the tax payer more money than it is now.

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

because some people commute from Cork to Limerick I could imply that Cork is in the Greater Limerick area, just like you are implying that Kilkenny is in the GDA for the same reasons

Bards how old are you out if interest? im not trying to offend but i dont think you really know what you are talking about. Some of your posts make little or no sense.

Kilkenny, like most of Leinster has been sucked into Dublins massive expansion over the past 2 decades, Thats why its getting an Mway to Dublin and the improved Train services.

invincibleirish

Psychedelic wrote: »

of course you have a right to express your concerns about Irish taxes being used to fund a new university. the upgrade to WIT will cost millions, but it won't cost millions on top of the existing funds to universities. as far as i understand, if WIT is to be upgraded, then the university funding 'pie' will just be divided into 8 instead of 7, so it's not actually costing the tax payer more money than it is now.

Yeah this is my main concern, I have repeatedly made the point that the Current universities face Funding shortfalls as things stand. There isnt enough money in the funding 'pie' to maintain the current 7, nevermind expanding to include an extra Uni.

Amazotheamazing

Psychedelic wrote: »

To invincibleirish and Amazotheamazing:
- do you think waterford or the south east should ever have a university?
- is there any particular criteria where you would agree that there should be a univeristy here?



so then every regional demand is just a vanity project? so limerick and the west demanding to keep the shannon airport routes to heathrow is just a vanity project?

of course you have a right to express your concerns about Irish taxes being used to fund a new university. the upgrade to WIT will cost millions, but it won't cost millions on top of the existing funds to universities. as far as i understand, if WIT is to be upgraded, then the university funding 'pie' will just be divided into 8 instead of 7, so it's not actually costing the tax payer more money than it is now.

Of course at some point in the future it will be feasible to have another university but I don't think we're anywhere near needing one for another generation or so. As it is we have too many spaces, and not enough funding. There simply isn't a need for one currently.

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

Bards how old are you out if interest? im not trying to offend but i dont think you really know what you are talking about. Some of your posts make little or no sense.

Kilkenny, like most of Leinster has been sucked into Dublins massive expansion over the past 2 decades, Thats why its getting an Mway to Dublin and the improved Train services.

old enough to remember the 80's and having to emigrate to the UK due to no work in Ireland

your posts do not make any sense to me therefore I assume you are only out of short trousers

invincibleirish

Psychedelic wrote: »

To invincibleirish and Amazotheamazing:
- do you think waterford or the south east should ever have a university?
- is there any particular criteria where you would agree that there should be a univeristy here?



so then every regional demand is just a vanity project? so limerick and the west demanding to keep the shannon airport routes to heathrow is just a vanity project?

I think WIT is a fine institution ( a friend goes there shock horror).Ireland has had a massive expansion of its 3rd level capacity in the past 2 decades.
Now the main task facing 3rd level institutions is competing internationally, this means forging new business links and opportunities and expanding the so called 4th level opportunities. This is best achieved by utilising what we already have.

In 10-15 years time maybe the issue of new Universities can be visited again.No one is saying that Waterford will never get a Uni. Its just that a number of factors:

-The country has the required levels of university course palces it needs for the foreseeable future
-there is a funding shortfall. the education budget will almost certainly be cut in real terms at the next budget.
-Upgrading one IT means several others will demand parity of treatment (some justificably, others not so)


Work against Waterford getting a Uni this time.

Every region (including Cork) has a wishlist of projects. practicality means that all wishes cant be fulfilled.I think Waterford needs short term economic stimulus, not a University.

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

old enough to remember the 80's and having to emigrate to the UK due to no work in Ireland

your posts do not make any sense to me therefore I assume you are only out of short trousers

Do you know what the GDA is bards?

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

You took me seriously LOL!:D:confused::D

I just used logic very evident on this thread to justify Clon getting a Uni, now you know whats it like to read some of the pitiful arguments put forward on this thread.

No I didn't take you seriously - I just though it was a stupid argument to compare Clonakilty to Waterford.

invincibleirish wrote: »

Kilkenny, like most of Leinster has been sucked into Dublins massive expansion over the past 2 decades, Thats why its getting an Mway to Dublin and the improved Train services.

Correction - there is a new motorway from Dublin to Waterford - it just happens to service Kilkenny as well;)

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Of course at some point in the future it will be feasible to have another university but I don't think we're anywhere near needing one for another generation or so. As it is we have too many spaces, and not enough funding. There simply isn't a need for one currently.

Somehow I think even if all your 'criteria' was met some time in the future, there would be some other criteria added later. The fact is, those regions that already have a University do not want any more in another region because they feel threatened. THAT is the real issue.

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

Do you know what the GDA is bards?

If it is a geography lesson you would like then we could start a whole new thread.

Do you know what the S.E region is Invincible??????? - judging from your posts you do not

& yes GDA stands for the behomoth that is The Greater Dublin Area, and will soon encompass all the East Coast as long as the regions are straved of economic drivers such as Univeristies etc.

The stats are that Mid West (Limerick) & West (Galway) have less population to support their respective Universities than the S.E Region.

IN fact the population within commuting Distance of Waterford City alone is on a par with their whole regions. Surely as a justification on having the Critical Mass then the S.E should be entitled to a University

Amazotheamazing

Bduffman wrote: »

Somehow I think even if all your 'criteria' was met some time in the future, there would be some other criteria added later. The fact is, those regions that already have a University do not want any more in another region because they feel threatened. THAT is the real issue.

Nope, show me a clear need that Ireland as a whole needs another university and I've no issue with having one or where it goes. As it is, it's clear Ireland doesn't need one.

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

Correction - there is a new motorway from Dublin to Waterford - it just happens to service Kilkenny as well;)

Double correction. The motorway isnt viable for the most part, even with it skirting by Kilkenny & Carlow and is built purely as a sop to local politics. find out more in this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055275639

No doubt you want WIT upgrade to proceed along similar lines. eg feck the country as long as Waterford gets.

The fact you claim the M9 as your own reveals more about your mentality then you'll probably ever realise..........

jaykay74

I was under the impression that we were having problems filling Uni places so adding more capacity doesn't seem to make sense. I don't think it really matters how many people live in the SE if the country as a whole doesn't require more capacity.

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

If it is a geography lesson you would like then we could start a whole new thread.

Do you know what the S.E region is Invincible??????? - judging from your posts you do not

how patronising.

Bards wrote: »

& yes GDA stands for the behomoth that is The Greater Dublin Area, and will soon encompass all the East Coast as long as the regions are straved of economic drivers such as Univeristies etc.

the regions will never compete with Dublin as things stand as they are too fragmented. Ireland has 4m people. Take away half of that for the GDA,and you are left with a number of areas squabbling for resources (and taking them away from where they matter - Dublin). The Me Fein attitude and the one for everyone in the audience attitude does enormous damage to this country.

Bards wrote: »

The stats are that Mid West (Limerick) & West (Galway) have less population to support their respective Universities than the S.E Region.

So?

Bards wrote: »

IN fact the population within commuting Distance of Waterford City alone is on a par with their whole regions. Surely as a justification on having the Critical Mass then the S.E should be entitled to a University

Again so? Its not as simple as population statistics. Were not playing a game of Reach 500k and get one university, reach 1m and get 2 universities, let me refer to the list of points i have made above in relation to the University issue.

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

Somehow I think even if all your 'criteria' was met some time in the future, there would be some other criteria added later. The fact is, those regions that already have a University do not want any more in another region because they feel threatened. THAT is the real issue.

Yeah because there is one big conspiracy to keep Waterford down, well done you found us out:rolleyes:.

And why wouldnt other Universities feel threatened by an upgrade to WIT?, as things stand the money to pay for that will be taken out of current budgets of our Universities, Institutions already in debt. All to satisfy a local campaign built on a sense of entitlement and going against Government policy. You are Irish as well as being from Waterford you know?

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

Double correction. The motorway isnt viable for the most part, even with it skirting by Kilkenny & Carlow and is built purely as a sop to local politics. find out more in this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055275639

No doubt you want WIT upgrade to proceed along similar lines. eg feck the country as long as Waterford gets.

jaysus you don't even want us to have proper roads now!! Did you ever drive from Dublin to Waterford through Kilkenny?? Did you not think it a disgrace in a modern country?

jaykay74

Bduffman wrote: »

jaysus you don't even want us to have proper roads now!! Did you ever drive from Dublin to Waterford through Kilkenny?? Did you not think it a disgrace in a modern country?

Roads seem fine to me. If you'd stop lifting that bridge of yours maybe

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

jaysus you don't even want us to have proper roads now!! Did you ever drive from Dublin to Waterford through Kilkenny?? Did you not think it a disgrace in a modern country?

Yeah because everywhere else doesnt have terrible roads and awful traffic:rolleyes:.

I refer to the quoted thread but ill make the same point i made there i'll make here just to show how disadvantaged Waterford is, soon Waterford will have the option of 2 toll free Motorways to Dublin. Every other city
will face tolls.

Waterford already has one city bypass and will soon get a second, meanwhile Cork/Limerick/Galway wait for the completion of their bypasses.

Still think you got a raw deal?

(Reply on the other thread if you must)

Bduffman

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yeah because everywhere else doesnt have terrible roads and awful traffic:rolleyes:.

I refer to the quoted thread but ill make the same point i made there i'll make here just to show how disadvantaged Waterford is, soon Waterford will have the option of 2 toll free Motorways to Dublin. Every other city
will face tolls.

Waterford already has one city bypass and will soon get a second, meanwhile Cork/Limerick/Galway wait for the completion of their bypasses.

Still think you got a raw deal?

(Reply on the other thread if you must)

I'm sorry - I live here & I haven't got a clue what you are talking about re: 2 toll free motorways to Dublin & an existing bypass. Looking at that other thread - I find it interesting how you attack Waterford on other issues as well. Just what is your problem with Waterford? Do you actually contribute to the Cork forum at all or spend all your time on here slagging Waterford?

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

No not really - just reading your comments & opinions on Waterford - they have very little to do with the merits of a Waterford University & a lot to do with your own low opinion of the city

OK ill give you what you want. I Hate Waterford, i wish for its destruction. None of my arguments make any sense as they are dripping with an intense dislike of 'Irelands oldest city'. Happy now?.


Or what you could do is take off the tribal blinkers and start engaging with me as an Irishman and at least recognise validity in mine & amazos arguments which are just a synopsis of arguments made in the press and elsewhere.

In Fact i can turn the tables on you and ask you and several other people on this thread do you hate Cork? i regret putting my location in my user profile as so many replies had a vibe of anti-Cork, do you know how frustrating it is when after typing out a long reply grounded in logic people just throw out an attitude of 'you're form cork so im going to dismiss your arguments'. i've already received an infraction on this thread despite the fact im the one trying to remain as civil as possible.

invincibleirish

Bduffman wrote: »

I'm sorry - I live here & I haven't got a clue what you are talking about re: 2 toll free motorways to Dublin & an existing bypass. Looking at that other thread - I find it interesting how you attack Waterford on other issues as well. Just what is your problem with Waterford? Do you actually contribute to the Cork forum at all or spend all your time on here slagging Waterford?

The M9 & N11 are the motorways, n25 bypass and new bridge is currently being built and you already have DC bypass (the one with all the roundabouts).

Ive taken Waterford posters to task on 2 things: the WIT issue and the waste of money of duplicating 2 very expensive roads essentially to the same place.

When did i slag Waterford?

Freddie59

Bduffman wrote: »

I'm sorry - I live here & I haven't got a clue what you are talking about re: 2 toll free motorways to Dublin & an existing bypass. Looking at that other thread - I find it interesting how you attack Waterford on other issues as well. Just what is your problem with Waterford? Do you actually contribute to the Cork forum at all or spend all your time on here slagging Waterford?

You're wasting your breath my friend. We're dealing with someone here who is blinkered and whose IQ is very low, to say the least. He has been pounded by the well-weighted counter-arguments on this thread, and the rubbish he's retorting with is, quite frankly, sickening. For example he accused people of 'not doing their costings properly' when considering sending a child to University. When I pointed out that I had done detailed costings, as my daughetr is about to sit her Leaving Certificate exam, he chose to ignore it.

What we have seen here is some of the most bigoted, narrow-minded, anti-Waterford rhetoric I have seen in an awful long time. Proof of tis is the comment, quote, feck the country as long as Waterford gets, unquote.

Amazingly, what Waterford is doing is a mirror image of the Cork strategy for years, and now we have a Corkonian objecting to it. Cute hoors indeed.

Freddie59

invincibleirish wrote: »

When did i slag Waterford?

You haven't slagged Waterford - you belittled it. You are a disgrace to your County.

Sully

Freddie59 wrote: »

You haven't slagged Waterford - you belittled it. You are a disgrace to your County.

Easy does it. No getting personal please.

Dac51

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yeah because everywhere else doesnt have terrible roads and awful traffic:rolleyes:.

I refer to the quoted thread but ill make the same point i made there i'll make here just to show how disadvantaged Waterford is, soon Waterford will have the option of 2 toll free Motorways to Dublin. Every other city
will face tolls.

Waterford already has one city bypass and will soon get a second, meanwhile Cork/Limerick/Galway wait for the completion of their bypasses.

Still think you got a raw deal?

(Reply on the other thread if you must)

The DC bypass as you call it was built mainly from City Council funds with a few bob thrown in by the NRA. It is 60kph road carrying traffic from the IDA Industrial Estate to the SE of the city. More a link road then a bypass.

The N25 bypass will be tolled despite the reasonable logic that relief/bypass roads should not be tolled. Unlike the Jack Lynch tunnel which has no toll. Oh, and by the way Waterford has waited for this bypass since the late 60's. Did you know there is only one bridge crossing the river suir in Waterford? The next bridge is 10 miles away. How many bridges cross the Lee or the Shannon in Cork/Limerick?

The M9 project is badly needed as the current N9 is without a doubt the worst national primary route in the country. Don't reply and say it isn't unless you are familiar with driving this route.

The N11 is the Dublin to Wexford road. What has it got to do with Waterford?

Pathetic arguments once again.

Did we get a raw deal? You bet we did.

invincibleirish

Freddie59 wrote: »

You haven't slagged Waterford - you belittled it. You are a disgrace to your County.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I sure am sir!

invincibleirish

Freddie59 wrote: »

You're wasting your breath my friend. We're dealing with someone here who is blinkered and whose IQ is very low, to say the least. He has been pounded by the well-weighted counter-arguments on this thread, and the rubbish he's retorting with is, quite frankly, sickening. For example he accused people of 'not doing their costings properly' when considering sending a child to University. When I pointed out that I had done detailed costings, as my daughetr is about to sit her Leaving Certificate exam, he chose to ignore it.

What we have seen here is some of the most bigoted, narrow-minded, anti-Waterford rhetoric I have seen in an awful long time. Proof of tis is the comment, quote, feck the country as long as Waterford gets, unquote.

Amazingly, what Waterford is doing is a mirror image of the Cork strategy for years, and now we have a Corkonian objecting to it. Cute hoors indeed.

:rolleyes: x2, if you have nothing constructive to add may i suggest you refrain from commenting?