Adobe Indesign CS3

hansman

I am currently in the process of setting up a student newspaper and am considering buying Adobe Indesign as the software package to use.

Do you believe this would be the best software to buy? Would this be an all in package for producing a newspaper of would I need Photoshop or Illustrator aswell?

Also, I am looking at purchasing the software on Ebay. Is there any difference between the US and UK versions of Indesign as the US one is much cheaper on Ebay?

I would greatly appreciate your help with the matter

Hank_Scorpio

Yes InDesign would be the best for laying out a project like this. You would of course need Photoshop for checking image quality and perhaps enhancing a photo or changing the colour from RGB to CMYK (for print).

You can change the colours on output using InDesign to CMYK, in PDF format. And you can check the image quality (resolution) using the Info Panel, it shows the Actual PPI (pixels per inch) and the Effective PPI. The actual would show what is saved in the image, and the effective would show the resolution of the image as per the amount of scaling you have done, ideally you would look for an effective ppi of 300 or more.

Illustrator is a useful too to have, but I'm not sure it would be needed for newspapers. It generally is used for creating logos, illustrations etc. InDesign does have some Vector creating abilities that Illustrator has, probably all you would need for newspaper design.

If you're thinking of getting InDesign CS3 then I suggest you get yourself a CS3 Guide for Dummies (that's not a insult or a joke) and I would suggest getting some other book like a InDesign CS3 Bible. (I have the CS2 versions of both of these books on my desk).

Last but not least, try to find a course, by IACT, New Wave Media, or New Horizons and do a beginners, intermediate and advanced classes in InDesign.


I wouldn't recommend buying InDesign from ebay. The EULA of the product specifies that using the product out of the country that is bought in is a violation of US Federal Law. You can review the EULA by googling Adobe EULA and selecting the product you want to review the EULA.

The European prices are a rip-off compared to the American market, I think I calculated before InDesign alone costs about 33% more in Europe than it does in America. I, and others, filed a complaint with Adobe and Adobe had no answer as to why it was so expensive in Ireland, stating it was shipping costs etc. I later found out that a company in Ireland prints, packages and distributes Adobe products in Ireland, so shipping costs shouldn't matter. As well as that, the download price of the software is the same price as the shipping, and it's 33% dearer than the American version, again Adobe had no excuses, other than that's the way it is.

Hank

hansman

Thanks Hank I really appreciate it. Ha, no insult taken I was already looking at those books! We will not be looking to take many photos from a digital camera, it will be more pictures from the internet so the basic picture editing features on Indesign should suffice.....?

Is it the UK version that we are meant to use as they are still available at a cheaper price on Ebay (although still a lot more expensive than the US versions) or is it an Irish version?

Hank_Scorpio

I think it's just the UK version.

minikin

Hi hansman,

if you're a student you'll qualify for the educational version (complete functionality but you don't qualify for future upgrade prices) It's a massive discount.

Get the Standard Print Creative Suite... and a mac.

hansman

Thanks for all the help. We will be looking to purchase the software for windows as the three of us have dell laptops running on windows. How many users are permitted for each Adobe Indesign disc?

This seems like great value:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-CS3-Master-Collection-Student/dp/B000OZ2EMI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=gateway&qid=1202832232&sr=8-3

It includes Indesign, Photoshop and Illustrator for less than the price of any individuall package!

However, there seems to be massive problems with installation (see reviews!). Do you know if these problems are sorted yet?

The Design Premium Ed looks even better still. It includes Indesign, Photoshop and Illustrator for around €300! We only originally wanted Indesign but I'm sure these would come in handy:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-CS3-Design-Premium-Student/dp/B000OZ2EKA/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=gateway&qid=1202833418&sr=8-1

What does everyone think? Is there any notable difference between these two products?

Hank_Scorpio

If you're using the student edition to output work for Sale then i think you are in breach of the EULA.

You should be getting this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-CS3-Design-Premium-PC/dp/B000O17CME/ref=pd_sbs_w_h__title_10

if you're a commercial company.

minikin

not breaching eula if it's a student mag (not for sale)
One software package = one desktop machine + one lappy (so long as they're not on same network at the same time)

you don't need anything more than the cs3 print standard edition...

seriously, bin the wintels if you can

hansman

What do ya mean by bin the wintels?? Is one desktop and a laptop the legal allowance...could we technically put it on as many machines as we want as long as they don't go online on the same network at the same time? It would be great if all three of us could have the software on our laptops, or if not, on our home desktops.

minikin

crush them, burn them, have a marksman take them out, drop them from a height... anything, just get a mac.

No... you can only one individual is supposed to install, the lappy allowance is made for when you're working out of the office.
You won't be able to activate the software on more than these two machines...
I'd advise that only one person handles the layout and artwork... why do the others need the progs - if it's just to write then use open office, free graphics packages like the gimp will do for the pics.

peejay1986

Quark is what the majority of newspaper companies use for setting the layout. Its a superb program. Operates very similar to InDesign but with a few different features.

hansman

Yeah I heard it is also popular. I am aware of a newspaper that uses Indesign and I love the design and layout. What advantages does Quark have over Indesign? I was of the opinion that people tended to favour Indesign over Quark. What are everyone's opinions?

Is Creative Suite Premium as difficult to install as everyone says?

Hank_Scorpio

This post here should help

http://indesignsecrets.com/things-you-cant-do-in-indesign.php


I am fully trained in Quark and InDesign, and in my opinion, InDesign is better. Although it can't do a lot of things that Quark can do, it can do A LOT of things that Quark can't do.

peejay1986

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

This post here should help

http://indesignsecrets.com/things-you-cant-do-in-indesign.php


I am fully trained in Quark and InDesign, and in my opinion, InDesign is better. Although it can't do a lot of things that Quark can do, it can do A LOT of things that Quark can't do.

From my experience Quark is more suited to a newspaper as I think it has better features for text. Butm as you say Hank, InDesign has a LOT of extra features but I would say the majority are for editing images. This would come from the fact that Adobe also have Photoshop in their ranks.

I know 3 people designing newspapers/magazines and only 1 of the 3 uses InDesign and thats the guy doing the magazine. My girlfriend is doing a journalism course as well and they told here to opt with Quark instead as its more of an industry standard.

peejay1986

hansman wrote: »

Is Creative Suite Premium as difficult to install as everyone says?

It's piss easy. Seriously.

The most difficult part of it is having the patience to wait for it to install.

Hank_Scorpio

peejay1986 wrote: »

From my experience Quark is more suited to a newspaper as I think it has better features for text. Butm as you say Hank, InDesign has a LOT of extra features but I would say the majority are for editing images. This would come from the fact that Adobe also have Photoshop in their ranks.

I know 3 people designing newspapers/magazines and only 1 of the 3 uses InDesign and thats the guy doing the magazine. My girlfriend is doing a journalism course as well and they told here to opt with Quark instead as its more of an industry standard.

I don't know about newspapers to be honest. As I say, I use both and can use both, and I find InDesign easier. I find controlling text easier and I find that it has better controls over text.

Quark is around a long time, longer than InDesign. I'm not aware of any controls InDesign has over images, bar that it can do a drop shadow, bevel emboss etc, which are effects and not image controls. As Quark has been around a long time, it probably is the industry standard for newspaper companies, who, understandably, wouldn't have the time or resources to switch to InDesign, nor would they need to. As a newspaper is set up on a grid system and just deals with mostly text, there wouldn't be need for any fancy dancy stuff.

I would say Quark is probably a standard for Newspapers, but it wouldn't surprise me if Quark is phased out over the next couple of years.

Some links

http://quarkvsindesign.com/articles/a1/news/2006/woodwing-introduces-smart-newspaper/

http://quarkvsindesign.com/articles/a1/features/2006/quark-versus-indesign-in-newspapers/


http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/527/design-software-at-newspapers.php

peejay1986

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

Quark is around a long time, longer than InDesign. I'm not aware of any controls InDesign has over images, bar that it can do a drop shadow, bevel emboss etc, which are effects and not image controls.

It can do a lot more than that, plus it can deal with all the adobe files so is good if working with Illustrator especially as Quark can work flawlessly with Photoshop also.

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

As Quark has been around a long time, it probably is the industry standard for newspaper companies, who, understandably, wouldn't have the time or resources to switch to InDesign, nor would they need to. As a newspaper is set up on a grid system and just deals with mostly text, there wouldn't be need for any fancy dancy stuff.

I don't want to act like a tit but I have to pull you up on that one. That wouldn't be the reason that Quark is preferred. I know for 2 reasons;

1) InDesign emerged from PageMaker which was created a few years before Quark, so it in fact has been around longer.

2) Any journalism lecturer.technician I know favours Quark for some reason or another so there must be something for them that would make them choose that.


Saying that though, all my Graphic Design lecturers prefer InDesign.

Its a matter of opinion really I suppose.

heggie

i've noticed from some of my peers that people who have grown up with quark seem to prefer it, personally its indesign for me

Hank_Scorpio

peejay1986 wrote: »

I don't want to act like a tit but I have to pull you up on that one. That wouldn't be the reason that Quark is preferred. I know for 2 reasons;

1) InDesign emerged from PageMaker which was created a few years before Quark, so it in fact has been around longer.

2) Any journalism lecturer.technician I know favours Quark for some reason or another so there must be something for them that would make them choose that.


Saying that though, all my Graphic Design lecturers prefer InDesign.

Its a matter of opinion really I suppose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_PageMaker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_InDesign

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuarkXPress

InDesign was a successor to pagemaker, not an upgrade of pagemaker, pagemaker is aimed at small business things now and InDesign is for high-end users creating complex designs, the last pagemaker product made was 2001, and InDesign is far better than Pagemaker, it's a completely different program.

Pagemaker, 1985; Quark, 1987 and InDesign, 2002.


Can I just ask you, do you use Quark? Do you use InDesign? Have you ever used Pagemaker?

I have used all 3 and out of those 3 I think InDesign is the best.

I do use both Quark and InDesign and I have done since 2001 and 2003 respectively and in my my opinion and experience that InDesign is superior to Quark in many ways.


People favour different things and like different things. Clearly you like one product and I like another.

I don't dislike Quark, I just don't like it when people try to tell me that Quark is better than InDesign, because it's not and it's certainly not the industry standard anymore. And seen as Quark relies heavily on EPS file format, which is not the best type of file format for todays modern world.

Anyone using Quark and thinks it's the industry standard is being serioulsy misled. It's like saying that EPS is the best file format to use.



***Just got off the phone with a buddy of mine that was using Quark since about when it came out, and he's moved over to InDesign in the last 3 years, I asked him "Which do you prefer, Quark or InDesign and which is the industry standard nowadays?" He said, "InDesign for both of those, and InDesign is the industry standard". I'm sorry, but he is the prepress manager for one of the busiest printing companies in Dublin, and he knows what he is talking about.

minikin

Quark is more suited to a newspaper as I think it has better features for text.

Sorry Peejay, but that statement right there is absolutely funting bullshick..

Indesign, has far superior support for text formatting... has supported opentype for years, optical justification etc... tell me ONE thing that the Cork Express can do with text that InDesign can not?

Both software packages have their virtues, but mark my words, (no really, go get your highlighter out and mark them on your monitor), quark won't be here in ten years time.

Hank_Scorpio

minikin wrote: »

Sorry Peejay, but that statement right there is absolutely funting bullshick..

Indesign, has far superior support for text formatting... has supported opentype for years, optical justification etc... tell me ONE thing that the Cork Express can do with text that InDesign can not?

Both software packages have their virtues, but mark my words, (no really, go get your highlighter out and mark them on your monitor), quark won't be here in ten years time.

I'd 5 years to be honest.

egan007

Quark will be here in 5-10 Years, Adobe Indesign Quark Edition;)

Hank_Scorpio

peejay1986 wrote: »

It's piss easy. Seriously.

The most difficult part of it is having the patience to wait for it to install.

I have a dual core pc 2.4 ghz with 2 gb RAM and FSB 800 mhz. Took just about 5 minutes to install CS3.

hansman

It's gonna be a student newspaper that will be given out free of charge. However, we will be seeking revenue off advertisers and will be applying for grants. Based on this will it be illegal to use Design Premium Student Edition if
(a) We are looking for a profit?
(b) We just use our revenue to cover costs and break even?
Or are both illegal??

Filipek

You can always try the free DTP software - Scribus.http://www.scribus.net/

Citizen_Erased

It's gonna be a student newspaper that will be given out free of charge. However, we will be seeking revenue off advertisers and will be applying for grants. Based on this will it be illegal to use Design Premium Student Edition if
(a) We are looking for a profit?
(b) We just use our revenue to cover costs and break even?
Or are both illegal??

A quick scan of the terms of the student license available for Adobe products has not yeided any particular references to restriction of distribution of final product , the only reference is that the software may only be for personal use , ie only the student it is registered to is allowed to use it. However there may have been something in the fine fine print about this matter so you can always query Adobe on the matter yourself.

Capt'n Midnight

Citizen_Erased wrote: »

A quick scan of the terms of the student license available for Adobe products has not yeided any particular references to restriction of distribution of final product , the only reference is that the software may only be for personal use , ie only the student it is registered to is allowed to use it. However there may have been something in the fine fine print about this matter so you can always query Adobe on the matter yourself.

Adobe are the worlds second biggest software company, not a charity. I'm be almost certain that you can't use student editions of anything for a comerical purpose. The use of software by non-profit organisations varies , you have to read the license.