Child discipline . Smacking - Yea or Nay

WhiteWashMan

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Stop being a troll. Your comment is so moronic it doesnt deserve an answer.

ont he contrary, it adds more to the discussion than what youve said, and if you cant be arsed to answer it, then dont answer at all.

as for being a troll, i may just ban the use of that word on this forum. most people dont appear to understand what it means.

Dave!

Any research floating about that analyses the effectiveness of different methods of child discipline?

I don't imagine smacking would have horrific psychological effects on the child in the long run, but I'd be interested in finding out if it actually has any effect in terms of general behaviour, academic performance, social interaction, etc. There's not much point in using a method if it does not work.

In general I'm not gonna get up in arms about a child getting a smack on the arse every so often, but it's a problem when smacking ceases to be a method of discipline and transforms into a method by which the parent can express their frustration and/or anger. That's not a healthy situation.

AckwelFoley

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

so youd call every single driver in the world retarded?


not sure how this equates to smacking your kids, or not smacking them in your case.

again, more of this PC sihte in a world gone mad.

Well you brought the analogy into the discussion, but yes, speeding is retarded. Dont you watch the news

My point is, you dont need to be a parent to have an opinion on whats right or wrong on the subject, yes i suppose you can refute this and say from lack of expierence in parenting my opinion may be less valid, but i disagree personally, my opinion wont change, i was all for smacking children but after alot of tinking about it, and seeing parents that dont smack their kids discipline their kids i made my decision on it.

I liike kids, and if im lucky enough i will have one some day, and i know i wouldnt have the heart to slap it.. i couldnt even hit a dog, so why would i hit a child,

Dyr

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Stop being a troll. Your comment is so moronic it doesnt deserve an answer.

I think lil kitten needs a time out maybe. Lil kitten, I just want to explain to you that it's not nice to call what someone says moronic. It will hurt their feelings.

If you think what they said was wrong then you should say why, instead of just saying nasty things. Now take a time out and when you feel ready come back into the thread and mabye tell syklops you're sorry, that's if you WANT to tell him you're sorry 'kay?

*hugs*

AckwelFoley

Bambi wrote: »

I think lil kitten needs a time out maybe. Lil kitten, I just want to explain to you that it's not nice to call what someone says moronic. It will hurt their feelings.

If you think what they said was wrong then you should say why, instead of just saying nasty things. Now take a time out and when you feel ready come back into the thread and mabye tell syklops you're sorry, that's if you WANT to tell him you're sorry 'kay?

*hugs*

Ha ha.. took me a second to see where you ere going there.. but i found the sarcasam

Catari Jaguar

You don't smack your kid and they become obese bank robbers? Please. Did you read the post?

If you were a decent parent I'm sure your kid wouldnt be stealing anyways.

And he clearly doesnt understand what points we are making by time out or quality time, yet decides to argue them and makes no sense. Just being facitious. He states "what is time out" then says it's no punishment. Time out is a punishment. Most effective one I use, kids in my class hate it. But no, it's not 2 hours long. And not as nice as Bambi made it sound. It's firmer...

Maybe if you spent a little more "quality time" with the kid, you'd know them and their needs or they'd feel comfortable enough to honestly ask you why they need the 10e and not go behind your back. Or you could raise them not to be thieves from an early age.

But enough of my "American parenting manual".... I'm sure the smacking is teh right choice.

Catari Jaguar

LOL at Bambi, very clever. I thought a hand might have come out of the screen and slapped me. Thanks for not doing that Whitewashman.

Although people here all seem to either follow or be punished by the boards banning/ infraction rules which basically are like using warnings, red cards and time outs. so...

AckwelFoley

Lil Kitten wrote: »

LOL at Bambi, very clever. I thought a hand might have come out of the screen and slapped me. Thanks for not doing that Whitewashman.

Although people here all seem to either follow or be punished by the boards banning/ infraction rules which basically are like using warnings, red cards and time outs. so...

You do know what happens if you get 9 infractions?

No lube.

Dyr

You've never been walloped with the ban hammer obviously

Catari Jaguar

hahahahah!

Catari Jaguar

Bambi wrote: »

You've never been walloped with the ban hammer obviously

Yes. Once. But I learned my lesson.. Was a tough week. Although should have been a minute per year of my age. Maybe they should introduce that rule. *runs to feedback forum*

themadchef

It's never appropriate for a teacher to smack. So anyone saying you can control someone elses kids is not the issue.


I'm hearing all this "no no no, not ever".
Do any of these people have children? simple question. You can only "aspire" to be a certain type of parent. I.E a non smacking parent if you do not have children. There are plenty of people out there i imagine that swore they would never ever smack until faced with certain realities. Ive tried it all ....the naughty steps, the naughty corner..but the child just feels isolated and goes hysterical. A smack: short, sharp, tap on the bottom is what im talking about. Am i expected to consider this as violence?

No one's saying it's fun. It is however a last resort, not an "im waking up this morning and the first thing little Johnny or Mary does wrong i'm going to wallop him".

If only we could all be perfect.

Baudelaire

themadchef wrote: »

It's never appropriate for a teacher to smack. So anyone saying you can control someone elses kids is not the issue.


I'm hearing all this "no no no, not ever".
Do any of these people have children? simple question. You can only "aspire" to be a certain type of parent. I.E a non smacking parent if you do not have children. There are plenty of people out there i imagine that swore they would never ever smack until faced with certain realities. Ive tried it all ....the naughty steps, the naughty corner..but the child just feels isolated and goes hysterical. A smack: short, sharp, tap on the bottom is what im talking about. Am i expected to consider this as violence?

No one's saying it's fun. It is however a last resort, not an "im waking up this morning and the first thing little Johnny or Mary does wrong i'm going to wallop him".

If only we could all be perfect.

But it's not a last resort, that's the problem after the first time it becomes the first resort with a "nip it in the bud" mentality.

I'm with lil kitten and snyper on this one 100%, no form of physical punishment is accetable ever. You're probably 3 or 4 times your childs weight and height so IMO hitting your child is violence, you're using your physically superiorty to subdue and intimidate and you can call it a spank, a slap, a tap or any other word you feel like putting on it that makes it sound like less than what it is but it's still intimidation, it's still excerting a power that they have no chance of countering. It's no different to bullying.

syklops

Lil Kitten wrote: »

If you were a decent parent I'm sure your kid wouldnt be stealing anyways.

This is the mentality that leads to the problems we have with some young people in modern society. I was brought up very well, and, even so 'experimented with theft' by taking something that I did not own once. I was caught and punished and never did it again. "If you are a decent parent you will have decent kids." Thats a sort of chicken and the egg statement.

When you tell your child not to touch the grill around the fire because it is hot, and they touch it, they hurt their finger and they understand the reason you told them not to do it is because they would get hurt. Some children are now happy to listen to you from now on. Most are not, next time you tell them not to run on the driveway in case they fall, they fall, bang their knee, and slowly learn not to run there. However, there are some things they do which you have told them not to, and they do it, and.... nothing happens. What do you do then to educate them into the right choice?

And he clearly doesnt understand what points we are making by time out or quality time, yet decides to argue them and makes no sense.

Just being facitious. He states "what is time out" then says it's no punishment. Time out is a punishment. Most effective one I use, kids in my class hate it. But no, it's not 2 hours long. And not as nice as Bambi made it sound. It's firmer...

No i didnt know what you meant by time out. I have never known any one to use it, and my only previous experience of time outs are in Ice Hockey. I assumed it was a new way of disciplining children which, it is. Can you explain to me how the time out works?

Maybe if you spent a little more "quality time" with the kid, you'd know them and their needs or they'd feel comfortable enough to honestly ask you why they need the 10e and not go behind your back. Or you could raise them not to be thieves from an early age.

Again, part of this discussion is, if you do not smack your child how do you bring them up to know right from wrong. Blanket statements like "just bring them up properly" is not of much use.

"Quality time" is something I first heard in american sit-coms. What exactly is it? How does it differ from helping your kids with their homework, reading them bedtimes stories, talking across the dinner table?

Dudess

Peared wrote: »

If you (feel you) have to slap you are a sh*t parent.

That sort of generalisation is ludicrous. I'm lucky enough to have a mother who is an amazing, nurturing, loving, warm, patient, calm, encouraging, super-thoughtful woman, who gave us the odd quick, barely painful little slap. She didn't do it in public to humiliate us, she didn't do it with an implement, she'd rarely do it, she'd only do it because she was driven to it by us being obnoxious. She'd try every other measure possible before finally opting for the last resort. She'd feel bad about it afterwards... and she's a "sh*t parent"...? Those indiscretions cancel out her good qualities?
And I'm intrigued by how sueme in particular is advising me how I've been traumatised by these events of my childhood. I'm not aware of such trauma, but thanks anyway...

themadchef

Baudelaire wrote: »

. It's no different to bullying.

Ok let me get this straight. It's not bullying if you isolate your child and put them in the corner? If you emotionally scar them its ok? No physical marks so it's all good. Kids will love you for it when they grow up i take it.

I'm still waiting to read the "big bad mommy and daddy smacked me and it ruined my life" post.

Anyway, i'm off to bed so i'm not a big bad smack monster in the morning , g'night folks.

WhiteWashMan

Lil Kitten wrote: »

LOL at Bambi, very clever. I thought a hand might have come out of the screen and slapped me. Thanks for not doing that Whitewashman.

Although people here all seem to either follow or be punished by the boards banning/ infraction rules which basically are like using warnings, red cards and time outs. so...

eh?

i dont recall anyone being warned or banned for not having the same opinion as a moderator.

why would i do that?

Dudess

Oh dear, WWM... did you use an electric or manual tin-opener for that can of worms...?

I was smacked by a teacher in school.I was four, we were out on a walk and despite being told repeatedly to say put, and wait for the group to gather. A gang of us took off running back to schoolroom when her back was turned. Everyone got a smack to get the point the across. Then we started learning the safe cross code.
She could have sat there all day explaining it to us, but if just one of us didn't get it, she wasn't going to find out until another dangerous situation arose.
I had that teacher for the first two and the last two years of Primary school. I never, ever saw her be the slightest bit emotionally or physically abusive again. In fact I'd say she was the best teacher I ever had.

I think any violent tendancies I have had were related to hormones.

My point is that smacking doesn't necessarily progress or scar you for you life.

AckwelFoley

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

eh?

i dont recall anyone being warned or banned for not having the same opinion as a moderator.

why would i do that?

No, she's saying that on boards, warnings etc are used to punish... not slaps..

Rb

snyper wrote: »

No, she's saying that on boards, warnings etc are used to punish... not slaps..

That's because they can't slap the users physically, so they slap them with warnings/infractions.

However, the amount of bans handed out per month should be ample proof that warnings do not work.

AckwelFoley

rb_ie wrote: »

That's because they can't slap the users physically, so they slap them with warnings/infractions.

However, the amount of bans handed out per month should be ample proof that warnings do not work.

We're getting a little off the track here, but id suggest the fact most ppl in the banned group couldnt give a fcuk about getting an infraction or a ban might be the reason rather than it not being effective.

book smarts

This is just another example of the bleeding-heart liberalism that is infecting Europe. Scandanavia and Holland are setting the standard. Child slapping is already illegal in Sweden. Anyone who opposes it is shot down as barbaric.

The new religions of psychiatry and psychology are used to invent problems from thin air, such as "Attention Deficit Disorder". What will the next "syndrome" be? People are in awe of these so called "experts", and daren't question them. Doesn't matter that a lot of what they do is unscientific, unprovable nonsense, and as vulnerable to fashion as anything else.

The methods of discipline of thousands of generations will be rejected in favour of our new found "enlightenment". I'm sure a totally unbiased "scientific" study can be produced to back the liberals claims, and common sense will be ignored. The end result will be hordes of unruly scum teenagers in hoodies, terrorising police. The fundamental power structure of the family will be broken down.

This "can't we all just get along and the whole world will be nice to eachother and live in happy la-la land" BS is pathetic. That's not how the world works. It's a jungle out there, literally. Liberalism is only going to weaken people's position. Children should be slightly afraid of their parents. They're learning to deal with the real world.

AckwelFoley

book smarts wrote: »

This is just another example of the bleeding-heart liberalism that is infecting Europe. Scandanavia and Holland are setting the standard. Child slapping is already illegal in Sweden. Anyone who opposes it is shot down as barbaric.

The new religions of psychiatry and psychology are used to invent problems from thin air, such as "Attention Deficit Disorder". What will the next "syndrome" be? People are in awe of these so called "experts", and daren't question them. Doesn't matter that a lot of what they do is unscientific, unprovable nonsense, and as vulnerable to fashion as anything else.

The methods of discipline of thousands of generations will be rejected in favour of our new found "enlightenment". I'm sure a totally unbiased "scientific" study can be produced to back the liberals claims, and common sense will be ignored. The end result will be hordes of unruly scum teenagers in hoodies, terrorising police. The fundamental power structure of the family will be broken down.

This "can't we all just get along and the whole world will be nice to eachother and live in happy la-la land" BS is pathetic. That's not how the world works. It's a jungle out there, literally. Liberalism is only going to weaken people's position. Children should be slightly afraid of their parents. They're learning to deal with the real world.

Im not condemming anyone that slaps a kids bottom.

I just wouldnt do it.

Choice.

syklops

Book_smarts: Apart from your negative comment about hoodies(im wearing one right now) I agree 100% with you.

Bambi: Despite lil'Kitten's time out and explanation as to what she has done, I still never got my apology. Is it too early to say QED? :P

WhiteWashMan

snyper wrote: »

No, she's saying that on boards, warnings etc are used to punish... not slaps..

actually, thats not at all what it reads to me.

thanking me for not 'slapping' her and then saying that bans or warnings are handed out for those that 'dont follow' would appear to mean something entirely different.

with infractions, i wouldnt know, ive never given one. i think they are pointless.

bans are handed out not as a punishment so much as to remove a disruption from the forum. moderators are here to facilitate, not dictate.

although, i must admit, there are a few users id like to slap about, and not in a sexual way.

Baudelaire

themadchef wrote: »

Ok let me get this straight. It's not bullying if you isolate your child and put them in the corner? If you emotionally scar them its ok? No physical marks so it's all good. Kids will love you for it when they grow up i take it.

Well I now I'd have loved my parents more if they hadn't physically scared me, I'd much rather been given the chance to sit down and think about what I had done than what actually did happen.

themadchef wrote: »

I'm still waiting to read the "big bad mommy and daddy smacked me and it ruined my life" post.

Fair enough, my brother was caught when he was 11 (I was 10) stealing a 10p bag of elastics out of a shop, my parents were drinkers so we didn't get pocket money and at the time sling shots were the big fad so to be like his friends and make one he had to rob the elastics, he got caught so to teach him a lesson my mother brought him home, lit the grill (It was a gas cooker with the grill on top) and held his hands under it until they sizzled, I was made sit there and watch and it smelt like rashers cooking, she held him for about 5 minutes and the two of us begged her to stop and all she kept saying was "I'll teach you not to steal". When she was satisified he had begged and promised enough he was bet up to his room and I hid that day out of sheer terror. That's by no means the worst they ever did to us but as I said already, he got it the most and I go to watch so spent a large part of my childhood to terrified to even speak in case I was punished so now he's an alcoholic and cocaine addict, he goes into really deep depressions and has at times tried to kill himself and it's all because he can't resolve the anger/frustration he still feels. I'm lucky, most of the time now I just feel nothing, I feel numb so can function of sorts because I can just bury it but he's not like that and I get to watch as he slowly wreaks every good thing that happens in his life over and over again because he can't get past it and probably never will.

AckwelFoley

Well, i guess she'll have to clarify it herself when she comes back from her "timeout"

Rb

Baudelaire wrote: »

Fair enough, my brother was caught when he was 11 (I was 10) stealing a 10p bag of elastics out of a shop, my parents were drinkers so we didn't get pocket money and at the time sling shots were the big fad so to be like his friends and make one he had to rob the elastics, he got caught so to teach him a lesson my mother brought him home, lit the grill (It was a gas cooker with the grill on top) and held his hands under it until they sizzled, I was made sit there and watch and it smelt like rashers cooking, she held him for about 5 minutes and the two of us begged her to stop and all she kept saying was "I'll teach you not to steal". When she was satisified he had begged and promised enough he was bet up to his room and I hid that day out of sheer terror. That's by no means the worst they ever did to us but as I said already, he got it the most and I go to watch so spent a large part of my childhood to terrified to even speak in case I was punished so now he's an alcoholic and cocaine addict, he goes into really deep depressions and has at times tried to kill himself and it's all because he can't resolve the anger/frustration he still feels. I'm lucky, most of the time now I just feel nothing, I feel numb so can function of sorts because I can just bury it but he's not like that and I get to watch as he slowly wreaks every good thing that happens in his life over and over again because he can't get past it and probably never will.

Em, there's a bit of a difference between smacking a child, and physically torturing them with the cooker.
There's a difference between parents who discipline their children with light smacks and your parents.

Rb

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

although, i must admit, there are a few users id like to slap about

With a large trout?





Christ I feel so dirty making such a nerdy comment

AckwelFoley

rb_ie wrote: »

Em, there's a bit of a difference between smacking a child, and physically torturing them with the cooker.
There's a difference between parents who discipline their children with light smacks and your parents.

*OPENS CAN OF WRIGGLEY WORMS*

Where do you draw the line between an acceptable smack and a not so acceptable one??

^^ i hate when ppl ask that question but..

WhiteWashMan

rb_ie wrote: »

With a large trout?





Christ I feel so dirty making such a nerdy comment

indeed.

you should smack yourself, but only if your ethics allow it...

Baudelaire

rb_ie wrote: »

Em, there's a bit of a difference between smacking a child, and physically torturing them with the cooker.
There's a difference between parents who discipline their children with light smacks and your parents.

But they started with the "Tap on the bum" crap, it just progressed, I'm not saying everybody will progress to those extremes but they will progress past the light tap phase eventually

Rb

snyper wrote: »

*OPENS CAN OF WRIGGLEY WORMS*

Where do you draw the line between an acceptable smack and a not so acceptable one??

^^ i hate when ppl ask that question but..

Acceptable : Light smack after a warning
Unacceptable : Holding childs hands on cooker until skin sizzles.

Line drawn after a smack hard enough to let them know what they did was completely unacceptable (after a warning obviously)

Rb

Baudelaire wrote: »

But they started with the "Tap on the bum" crap, it just progressed, I'm not saying everybody will progress to those extremes but they will progress past the light tap phase eventually

Your parents were alcoholics who took their drunken aggression out on you. This doesn't mean any other parents will so I'd suggest you don't even imply it would.

Where it started does not matter.

AckwelFoley

rb_ie wrote: »

Acceptable : Light smack after a warning
Unacceptable : Holding childs hands on cooker until skin sizzles.

Line drawn after a smack hard enough to let them know what they did was completely unacceptable (after a warning obviously)

But that cant go on for ever, there is an age that a smack on the botty (<-- lol botty) will not work.. what then? Harder smack? Punch?

Baudelaire

rb_ie wrote: »

Your parents were alcoholics who took their drunken aggression out on you. This doesn't mean any other parents will so I'd suggest you don't even imply it would.

Where it started does not matter.

She was sober at the time

Baudelaire

Baudelaire wrote: »

But they started with the "Tap on the bum" crap, it just progressed, I'm not saying everybody will progress to those extremes but they will progress past the light tap phase eventually

I found this so difficult to read, never mind imagine how you would cope with it.
I can't fathom how a parent could do that, but it has to be a hell of lot more complicated than simply wanting your child to learn a lesson.
They are two different things.

A racy brainrot

My parents didn't have to do anything. My brothers' did it for them. They used to beat the nonsense out of me when I ruined their games, or just annoyed them, those things that younger sisters do. I spent most of my time with them. Good and bad.
I was very loud kid though, always pushing the boundaries.

Dudess

Baudelaire, that's horrific. I'm awfully sorry to hear it. And if that grill stunt isn't the worst of what was inflicted on you... well, fair play to you for coming across so balanced. I actually feel a bit sick after reading your post. Sorry, it's not pity btw.

Anyway - and I'm not trying to use your experience as currency for an argument - but wouldn't you agree that those who compare a tiny little slap on the hand with that kind of torture are kinda trivialising the experiences of you and other abused children?

AckwelFoley

Dudess wrote: »

Anyway - and I'm not trying to use your experience as currency for an argument - but wouldn't you agree that those who compare a tiny little slap on the hand with that kind of torture are kinda trivialising the experiences of you and other abused children?

They're just different degrees of the same medicine

Baudelaire

snyper wrote: »

But that cant go on for ever, there is an age that a smack on the botty (<-- lol botty) will not work.. what then? Harder smack? Punch?

snyper is right, for it to remain an effective punishment as the child gets older the smack has to progress, a smack that makes a 4 year old cry won't work on an 8 year old so where do you draw the line? how much is to much or even better how much is not enough?

Dudess

A racy brainrot wrote: »

They used to beat the nonsense out of me when I ruined their games, or just annoyed them, those things that younger sisters do. I spent most of my time with them. Good and bad.
I was very loud kid though, always pushing the boundaries.

Wasn't your fault, girl.

syklops

snyper wrote: »

But that cant go on for ever, there is an age that a smack on the botty (<-- lol botty) will not work.. what then? Harder smack? Punch?

I never got smacked after the age of about 9. Maybe not as late as that. After that your child should know the boundaries you have set. If they go over that then you take away TV, video games, no pocket money, etc. Find the thing that they like, and take it away from them for a short period. They then behave or you take it away for even longer. I remember I was banned from tv for a few weeks and it was hell. I was good from then on.

In bringing up your child you give them treats when they have been good. If they have not been good, no treats. If they have been obnoxious they get punished, in a manner that fits the child.

AckwelFoley

Look, my mother kicked me around the house, broke most thinhs we had off me. Bless.

But never cared less about that.. it was the words of my father albeit it very stern, that worked on me, and to this day, i work hard so i dont disappoint him..bless.

Baudelaire

Dudess wrote: »

Baudelaire, that's horrific. I'm awfully sorry to hear it. And if that grill stunt isn't the worst of what was inflicted on you... well, fair play to you for coming across so balanced. I actually feel a bit sick after reading your post. Sorry, it's not pity btw.

Anyway - and I'm not trying to use your experience as currency for an argument - but wouldn't you agree that those who compare a tiny little slap on the hand with that kind of torture are kinda trivialising the experiences of you and other abused children?

Kind of explains why I'm such a maladjusted poster huh?

To be honest I really can't see how some people don't see any form of physical punishment as abuse, it seems like they have a boundry or a line(and this is the part I can't understand) where if they don't cross it then it's not abuse (I tried all through this not to use the word abuse but I'm glad you did now because I was dying to say it) but no one seems to be able to answer me when I ask where the line is, I've asked a few times now and it just gets ignored. My reason for saying what happened to us was to show it can get out of hand, no matter what anyone says the light tap will have to progress for it to remain effective and then where do they draw that line? I really don't understand it to be honest. I know I'd never do it no matter what because I know the effects and I don't believe all that "It never did me any harm" crap, like snyper said earlier some people wouldn't kick their dog but have no issues hitting their kid, it's kind of sad that they can't see the irony, not that I'm saying it's ok to kick a dog but they wouldn't see that that's actually putting their dog on a higher status than their child.

Baudelaire

snyper wrote: »

Look, my mother kicked me around the house, broke most thinhs we had off me. Bless.

But never cared less about that.. it was the words of my father albeit it very stern, that worked on me, and to this day, i work hard so i dont disappoint him..bless.

Thats weird, my da was bad and had his moments but my ma was always the terror aswell, we had brushes broke on us, A bow from a bow and arrow set (a fcuking bow, like those are practicly unbreakable!) but the most impressive when I think back on it was a Hurley bat (is that what it's called?), they're made of oak (I think, some strong wood anyway) and can take a wallop from a slither traveling at like 90 miles an hour and bet us till it snapped, it was fcuking surreal at times.

syklops

When i picture the image of someone smacking a child in my head I see the parents hand and the childs bottom. Not someone breaking treetrunks off the child. Hand and backside. If you have to use something other than either then it has gone too far. Simple as.

Rb

snyper wrote: »

But that cant go on for ever, there is an age that a smack on the botty (<-- lol botty) will not work.. what then? Harder smack? Punch?

No obviously not. It gets phased out and replaced with different punishments as the child gets older i.e no pocket money, not allowed go over to a friends house when they want etc.

Baudelaire

syklops wrote: »

When i picture the image of someone smacking a child in my head I see the parents hand and the childs bottom. Not someone breaking treetrunks off the child. Hand and backside. If you have to use something other than either then it has gone too far. Simple as.

Not really, I'd personally be of the opinion that when you can picture images of someone smacking a child (be they parent or not) and can create a sinario where you see that as in any way accetable then its already gone to far.