Child discipline . Smacking - Yea or Nay

Terry

DeVore wrote: »

Read Freakonomics about how much parents matter to their kids. I hate to tell you, but its not all that much, particularly when compared to their mates influence...

DeV.

Despite reading the equivalent of a low brow novel here every day (AH), I'm not much of a reader.
You short summary there seems to agree with my point about outside influences though.
BTW, would you mind if I brought that post you pointed to into this thread.
There are some points I agree with and some I disagree with.
I'd like to tackle them here, rather than on the poker forum.

Quality wrote: »

Terry,

I think the most important influences on children these days are their primary carers eg. parents, teachers, and carers (creche, baby sitter, aunts, uncles, etc.)

I remember all my teachers names from junior infants to college...

If you gave me a picture of everyone I went to school with from then to now,,, I dont think I would be able to name them all...

Of course there are going to be outside influences.,, but in essence what statements have been made are true



therefore, I believe my list is viable.

The most important people in any childs life, whethere it is this generation or those who lived 2,000 years ago has been the parents, teachers and (in rare cases in th past) carers.

I also remember all my teachers and old classmates.

The thing is, unless you keep your children locked inside the house all day every day (apart from school), they are going to have outside influences.

As a child, I spent most of my time on the estate playing football or other games with my friends.
This is where chldren learn how to interact with others.

My next door neighbours keep their kid inside all the time.
I worry about how that id will deal with the outside world in a few years time.

Quality

Ok

I would be a fool to disagree with your comments Terry, Outside influences are important...


But I do believe that a child needs a good foundation at home.. someone they can rely on... I dont believe in smacking.. I hope to always have a good relationship with my children.. accept them for who and what they are... praise them.. stick up for them.. support them, emotionally & financially..... Love them unconditionally

I like to think that by not smacking my children they will not go on to smack..

I grew up with the wooden spoon and the leather belt when we were bold... i remember having marks across my arse like you would not believe.. I would like my children not to grow up with memories like those in their heads..

Terry

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, but I'll bet you'll remember the person who beat you up every day for your tuck shop money or the one who stole your girlfriend/boyfriend. Impact is not defined by position, but by actions.

On a related note.


I grew up in anything but a hateful environment, but have learned to fight. Some skills are just necessary. Experiences other than my home environment have led to this conclusion. I'm fairly sure you can find people brought up in a hateful environment who have taken a path of nothing but peace and love as well.

NTM

There's another point I agree with you on.
I grew up in a mostly peaceful environment.
Apart from a complete wanker of an uncle (whose grave I would piss on if I knew where it was), I was brought up by a loving family.
Violence was minimal at home.

However, on the estate I was regularly beaten up by the older kids. They just did it for ****s and giggles and never really hurt me.

At home I was told to turn the other cheek.
This didn't work too well when I was nine or ten, but as I got older people actually respected me for it and the tougher guy stood up for me whenever i was unfairly picked on.
In my teens I took advantage of this and picked fights in the knowledge that they would stick up for me, but that only worked a couple of time. They then l;eft me to my own devices and I learned my lesson after a few kickings.

AckwelFoley

Terry,

Just to pick up omn a point you made earlier about the brats having no respect for the gardai, i dont think if they were slapped as kids it would make any difference here.

The problem is that the kids know that nothing will happen to them if they even told a guard to fcuk off... what can the guards do? The detention centers are full and the judges just let them off.. their hands are tied and the little fookers know this

Terry

snyper wrote: »

Terry,

Just to pick up omn a point you made earlier about the brats having no respect for the gardai, i dont think if they were slapped as kids it would make any difference here.

The problem is that the kids know that nothing will happen to them if they even told a guard to fcuk off... what can the guards do? The detention centers are full and the judges just let them off.. their hands are tied and the little fookers know this

Yes.
But it all comes back to the liberal attitude towards children.
This is what brought this disrespect about.

The corts are afraid to send kids down for fear of mentaly harming them.

If a kid is robbing houses or car stereos, they are already gone. Sending them down is what needs to be done.
It worked for a friend of mine.
He was notorious around the town. Spent a few months in Shanganagh and came out a changed man. Has had the same job for 15 years now and is well liked by all his workmates.

ergonomics

Quality wrote: »

If a child grows up in an environment of criticism, the child will learn to criticize.
If a child grows up in an environment of hate, the child will learn to fight.
If a child grows up in an environment of shame, the child will learn to feel guilty
If a child grows up in a praising environment, the child will learn to appreciate.
If a child grows up in an encouraging environment, the child will learn to be confident.
If a child grows up in an environment of understanding, the child will learn to be patient.
If a child grows up in a just environment, the child will learn to be fair.
If a child grows up in a secure environment, the child will learn to trust.
If a child grows up in an approving environment, the child will develop self-esteem.
If a child grows up in an environment of acceptance and friendship, the child will learn to find love in people.

To be honest I don't agree with this list at all.

I grew up in a 'broken house'. My parents had roaring, crazy fights with each other and my Dad had serious anger problems. Did I grow up getting into fights with my loved one and with an anger problem? No the complete opposite.

My Dad and older sister are critical of EVERYTHING I do. Did I grow up to be critical and having no interest in proving myself? No I grew up to be a hard worker to prove them wrong and am rarely critical of others achievements.

My Mum supported me in everything I did and always told me how great I was when I did well. Did I grow up to have loads of confidence and self-esteem? No, I was extremely shy and seriously lacking in self-esteem.

As I said earlier, I come from a broken home. My parents divorced when I was 5. According to your list, as I didn't come from a secure environment, I shouldn't trust anyone because people from a secure environment do trust people. In fact it's the opposite. I trust everyone and anyone.

So basically any environment I grew up in, I developed in the complete opposite to. While your list may be true in some cases, it's not true in all.

Quality

Ergonomics...


If I may ask a question, please..

How would you like your children reared....

As I have stated.

Or

As you have been reared?

ergonomics

Neither way.

I want my children to grow up loved and happy but also knowing the difference between right and wrong. I will smack my child if I feel it is needed. I don't believe you can reason with a 2 year old about what is right or wrong for two reasons. First, by trying to reason you are trying to treat them like an adult which they are clearly not and secondly, telling a two year old 'that's wrong' is not going to be understood.

I will tell my children to stop if they are doing something bold, if I have to tell them again I will threaten with a smack and if it happens again they'll get a smack. Not a hard one, not a painful one, but one enough so they know there are consequences to their actions. Simply telling a baby there are consequences is not enough, they need to know there are real consequences. When I was a child I received the same treatment and I have no recollection of being slapped because the threat was enough.

I don't think this sort of treatment does any psychological harm to the child. Look at the amount of people who have posted on this thread who said they were smacked and aren't going out selling drugs, beating up randomers or murdering people. I would never hit my child with something like a spoon or anything like that and would never hurt them. The act is enough.

Quality

I have a two year old... I dont smack, I use a bold step, I bring him out to it and sit him down on it... I tell him him what he has done ( In a way he will understand) and i leave him there.....He will come in and if I ask him to say sorry he will...


He knows when he is bold because the threat of sitting on the step is the acquivilant of smacking to him.. I dont have to use force... But that fact that he is excluded from family time is a discipline to him..

All parents do things differently, No one thing can be classed as right or wrong.. what works for me on this baby,,,, may not work on the next..

Its an easy thing to conceive and have a baby...
the hard part of it is rearing the child...

If I could write a book on a way to make a perfect child I would be a millionaire... what works with one child, may not work with another..

I just dont agree with slapping, especially at a young age... I think there are other ways you can deal with boldness in toddlers..

AckwelFoley

Terry wrote: »

Yes.
But it all comes back to the liberal attitude towards children.
This is what brought this disrespect about.

The corts are afraid to send kids down for fear of mentaly harming them.

If a kid is robbing houses or car stereos, they are already gone. Sending them down is what needs to be done.
It worked for a friend of mine.
He was notorious around the town. Spent a few months in Shanganagh and came out a changed man. Has had the same job for 15 years now and is well liked by all his workmates.

I see your point, but i disagree that because one may choose not to slap a child that they are taking a "liberal" attitude towards parenting, infact they could be more strict with their rules if they choose imo.

I also feel that the courts dont send these little fookers away because they have no where to put them, and / or perhaps they dont want them entered into the "system" at such a young age ..but thats another debate.

Ive seen parenting that s done with very strict control of their children while refraining from slapping.

Dyr

Terry wrote: »

Spent a few months in Shanganagh and came out a changed man. Has had the same job for 15 years now and is well liked by all his workmates.

Come now, dont be bashful, that's not your friend, its you

Manic Moran

There's another point I agree with you on.

Odd. I was out camping this weekend, I didn't notice a full moon coming on.

NTM

Dudess

I know. I'm feeling the love on After Hours tonight too!

Manic Moran

I use a bold step, I bring him out to it and sit him down on it...

Many years from now, when rich and famous he'll be starting to climb a set of steps in front of town hall to receive his key to the city. The sight of a step will suddenly cause a flashback with negative associations, causing him to freeze.. then, shaking, he will draw back down, saying 'no! No! I wasn't bold!', and run screaming through the crowd. Last reports will have him attacking an escalator with a jackhammer.

I think this is about as likely as someone who got slapped turning into a mad violent person as a result purely of the corporal punishment.

NTM

ergonomics

Manic Moran wrote: »

Many years from now, when rich and famous he'll be starting to climb a set of steps in front of town hall to receive his key to the city. The sight of a step will suddenly cause a flashback with negative associations, causing him to freeze.. then, shaking, he will draw back down, saying 'no! No! I wasn't bold!', and run screaming through the crowd. Last reports will have him attacking an escalator with a jackhammer.

I think this is about as likely as someone who got slapped turning into a mad violent person as a result purely of the corporal punishment.

NTM

+1

DeVore

What sort of kid stays on the "bold step". I have a wilful 2 year old niece who, um, inherited some boneheaded genes from Uncle I think.... try putting her on the bold step and expecting her to stay put. You must be high....lol...

DeV.

AckwelFoley

DeVore wrote: »

What sort of kid stays on the "bold step". I have a wilful 2 year old niece who, um, inherited some boneheaded genes from Uncle I think.... try putting her on the bold step and expecting her to stay put. You must be high....lol...

DeV.

So, instead one correct the behaviour by hitting her?

DeVore

Excuse me.... did I say that Snyper?




DeV.

AckwelFoley

DeVore wrote: »

Excuse me.... did I say that Snyper?




DeV.

i assumed that is what you were suggesting.

DeVore

The biggest problem with this thread is that there is far far too much "assuming" going on.

You didn't read all the posts in this thread. You jumped to a conclusion. You were wrong.

DeV

AckwelFoley

DeVore wrote: »

The biggest problem with this thread is that there is far far too much "assuming" going on.

You didn't read all the posts in this thread. You jumped to a conclusion. You were wrong.

DeV

I started the thread, and have throughout the day read all the posts, including yours.

The thread is about the use or lack thereof smacking as a form of discipline.

I made the assumption that although you dont poarticularly approve of smacking you dont feel the "bold step" would work, and prefer an alteernative in that instance.

As ive said twice already, i have not nor will i judge or "assume" bad parenting on those parents who, if they choose , smack their kids, i just would not use it it myself as a tool for discipline.

DeVore

I made the assumption that although you dont poarticularly approve of smacking you dont feel the "bold step" would work, and prefer an alteernative in that instance.

So you "read my mind" and put words in my mouth?

Or where did the idea of hitting my niece come into all of this?

You can have till morning on that one, I'm off to bed.

DeV.

Baudelaire

slideways wrote: »

People are being irrational really
A freind of mine has a child and when he comes back from his father after the weekend he can be a little unruly, the mother gives ample warnings and they normally work but if not a slap on the arse is administered, it is not hard and the child is still in nappies so it def doesn't even hurt, but it is very effective. The wee lad normally starts crying with the shock of it and runs away to sulk for a min or 2 but somes back with an 'im sowwy' pretty quickly

You see this is the problem, everyone is saying "it's only a little smack", "it doesn't really hurt" etc but everyone is only thinking of the physical, there's been a few arguments about comparing adults being hit to children being hit so fair enough then try to see the childs point of view. Their parents are the be all and end all, no matter what they don't know any better and need to know that their parents love them unconditionally, if you hit a child then in their mind that love isn't unconditional, by hitting them no matter how many times you've told them you love them you've then broken that unconditional and (not that they'd be able to reason it this way but still will on some level) betrayed them. Slideways, a child that goes away like that isn't sulking, a child that goes away like that is afraid that their parent doesn't love them anymore and in the basic child way of thinking comes up with the only way they can think of to get the love back and thats to say "I'm sowwy" and get the closeness and hugs again, all that child wants is to feel the safety again, that's not "sorry" that's "**** don't leave me, I'm scared"

Manic Moran

they [...] need to know that their parents love them unconditionally

Why?

On the most instinctive level, kids know that their parents are their best chance of survival. You touch upon this right at the end. Similarly, parents instinctively do what they can to ensure their kids make it to maturity. The bond is there, and I don't believe that the odd bit of disciplining is going to negate this. "Don't leave me I'm scared" is the precise reason that humans protect their young: Because the young can't survive without them.

NTM

Dudess

True, Baudelaire. I've heard it said that abused children often, instead of turning against their parents, go to extra lengths to win their approval. Makes me sad.

Snyper, DeVore said he doesn't agree with smacking. Definitely.

Lockstep

Thaedydal wrote: »

There should be mandatory parenting classes for everyone that has a child and they should be done while the child is 3.

I completely agree with this point.

Manic Moran wrote: »

You can tell who used to be routine Internet users in the days before Java-run browser-based chat rooms.



What is it with the wooden spoon, anyway? I got it to spend some quality time with one as well, and it can't be a local cultural thing, my mother's Greek.

I think the whole 'get beaten, and become a violent person yourself' thing is silly. Barring the fact that I volunteered to fly around the world and shoot people, I consider myself to be quite a non-violent person, despite the occasional bout of corporal punishment in my past.

The concept of 'Carrot and stick' is an old one, for a reason. Solely positive or solely negative reinforcement is far less successful than the two used together. I would submit that just how a kid turns out is dependant upon rather more important issues than if they got the odd tap.

Pain is a survival trait which has been biologically wired into us. An earlier poster alluded to it. Darwinian logic would indicate that if it were useless as a training aid, it would have evolved out of us by now. We feel pain when we get burned as an indicator that your body's protection system is saying "This is a bad situation, and you had better take your hand out of the boiling water now, please, before you do some real damage. Oh, and by the way, don't do it again." People with CIPA (an inability to feel pain) are some of the most at-risk people in the world. As far as I'm concerned, the use of pain to teach a lesson can work, and no psychologist is going to convince me that nature is wrong. This even works with adults. Who amongst us has never suffered a hangover of doom and said "Hell, I'm never going to drink that combination of drinks again"? 'Comealongs' are routinely used by police as an effective way of controlling rowdy adults.

The kid must understand the causal relationship between his actions, and any positive (ice cream, pocket money, whatever) or negative (slapping, banishment etc), which requires proximity of time. The reinforcement must be appropriate to the act. (You're not going to get a car for improving your mathematics grades from C to . You don't have to resort to violence, much as you don't have to resort to tangible benefits such as increases in pocket moneys. However, they are all certainly tools which can be used in the appropriate circumstances.

NTM

Again, some excellent points there.

Quality wrote: »

If a child grows up in an environment of hate, the child will learn to fight.

I took up boxing because I didn't have to know how to fight. I grew up in a good environment and don't believe I've been in a real fight since I was around six.

One of my parents wasn't the greatest parent TBH and this caused me to do my best to make my way through my life as a pacifist. I made my way through school by diplomacy and worked around different groups and gangs. They knew I was soft as ****e but I still got on grand with everyone in my class


Then about 8 months ago or so I had a nightmare where something bad happened to someone I care about and I was unable to do anything about it.
This was my motivation for learning boxing, as a way of defending those I care about if I ever need to. Stemming from the fact that I never had to fight as a kid as a reaction to what I saw at home.


With RE to slapping, it was very rarely a pain issue for me.
What really hurt was the fact that I'd misbehaved so much that they used the strongest weapon in their arsenal. It was far more psychological than physical.



Although I will say one thing.

One of my parents did fly off the handle with it. Used it as an immediate punishment and aimed to hurt, although thankfully it rarely did as I was a hyperactive little kid and could usually dodge outta the way until their temper improved.


I'm willing to bet I would be unable to smack any of my kids should I have any. However, I do think that such a punishment is fine for a parent who knows the limits and all that.

AckwelFoley

Snyper, DeVore said he doesn't agree with smacking. Definitely.

i was tired, it was way past my bedtime.

I was wrong.

Baudelaire

Manic Moran wrote: »

Why?

On the most instinctive level, kids know that their parents are their best chance of survival. You touch upon this right at the end. Similarly, parents instinctively do what they can to ensure their kids make it to maturity. The bond is there, and I don't believe that the odd bit of disciplining is going to negate this. "Don't leave me I'm scared" is the precise reason that humans protect their young: Because the young can't survive without them.

NTM

Well actually no, humans have evolved beyond all their actions being dictated by instinct, all human action is dictated by choice which is why there's been so many cases in the news lately of parents killing their own kids, so where's the instinct to ensure the survival of their young there?

Quality

DeVore wrote: »

What sort of kid stays on the "bold step". I have a wilful 2 year old niece who, um, inherited some boneheaded genes from Uncle I think.... try putting her on the bold step and expecting her to stay put. You must be high....lol...

DeV.

My child doesnt stay on the bold step for long A couple of seconds at most, but it is the stigma attached to being brought out to the bold step that is the punishment to him. He will do a little moan and false cry... Then he will bounce back into the room and say sorry...

I wouldn't be very strict on him.... but I do believe that some discipline is needed.

faceman

DeVore wrote: »

Sorry but adults who reepeatedly break societies laws ARE physically punished. They are physically restrained in a room for up to the rest of their lives. They are physically removed from wherever they are and if they resist then appropriate force can be used to FORCE their compliance.

Criminals arent physical punished through violence in the EU.

wrote:

While I disagree with slapping kids (it isnt a hanging offence imho, but it should be viewed as a "failure" by the parents), I do think that kids now have so many rights etc that they cannot even be forcibly removed from class rooms or restrained from doing something. This leads to the situation whereby when they turn 18 the look of shock on their faces when a guard puts their hand on them must be a sight to see!

This is a common and very valid point. however i still dont believe it justifies violence as a means of creating discipline. Thaedydal made the point earlier and it has been made in other threads too, the issue with parents is the unability to know how to 'parent'. Similiarly the lack of appropriate training for teachers in discipline practices is also a problem.

We all had teachers in school that were crap and couldnt maintain discipline. But we also had teachers that could without resorting to violence.

For all the posters commenting on the risk to children from smacking, there is no evidence to suggest that kids who get smacked will be violent etc. Thats not the issue with smacking IMO anyway. The issue is carrying out an act of violence on a vunerable member of society.

AckwelFoley

Quality wrote: »

My child doesnt stay on the bold step for long A couple of seconds at most, but it is the stigma attached to being brought out to the bold step that is the punishment to him. He will do a little moan and false cry... Then he will bounce back into the room and say sorry...

I wouldn't be very strict on him.... but I do believe that some discipline is needed.

When you are finished with the father of your children, would be as kind as to be the mother of my first born please?

Pretty please?

Aseth

It's another example of 'political corectness'. And a lot of b*lls1t.
Nowadays we have this 'fashion' or whatever you call it to raise your child 'stresless'. And then we see teenagers(actually 13-year old is still a child but anyway) behaving wild, loud and agressive on the streets and buses/dart etc and girls with make up, dressed like they were looking for much more adult 'fun'.
All this is a result of no discipline in the house.
I don't agree with beating children but than a slap or two can be a proper punishment. I don't think reasoning with a 8/10 year old will do as children not always understand what is wrong with what they did and trying explaining it to them just leads nowhere. 'Don't do it this is wrong/bad' is sort of too vague.
Being firm and making clear rules is the way IMHO.

faceman

Aseth wrote: »

It's another example of 'political corectness'. And a lot of b*lls1t.
Nowadays we have this 'fashion' or whatever you call it to raise your child 'stresless'. And then we see teenagers(actually 13-year old is still a child but anyway) behaving wild, loud and agressive on the streets and buses/dart etc and girls with make up, dressed like they were looking for much more adult 'fun'.
All this is a result of no discipline in the house.
I don't agree with beating children but than a slap or two can be a proper punishment. I don't think reasoning with a 8/10 year old will do as children not always understand what is wrong with what they did and trying explaining it to them just leads nowhere. 'Don't do it this is wrong/bad' is sort of too vague.
Being firm and making clear rules is the way IMHO.

What your post and some of the posts are suggesting is that the only way to discipline children is through violence.

It comes back to the point Thaedydal made earlier about parents not knowing how to discipline their children correctly.

Aseth

faceman wrote: »

What your post and some of the posts are suggesting is that the only way to discipline children is through violence.

It comes back to the point Thaedydal made earlier about parents not knowing how to discipline their children correctly.

Then the only alternative is to send parents of troublesome children for some sort of training and teach them how to behave towards children that just won't listen.
And, no offence, I can already see those long queues of parents (considering themselves unmistakable) to learn how to do it. :rolleyes:

Concorde

Prevention is better than cure!
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ&feature=related:D

nikki 122

Peared wrote: »

What kind of message do kids get when people much bigger and stronger than them inflict pain on them to get them to do their will? And we wonder why there are so many little f*uckers out there.

If you (feel you) have to slap you are a sh*t parent.

thats so true kids need boundaries starting with a routine when they are born that way sub-consciously they know to follow the rules as they will be used to it!

tallaght01

I'm consistently amazed that adults think it's ok to hit a small child.

It's not acceptable for an adult to hit me. It's not acceptable for an adult to hit an elderly person.

So why on earth is it acceptable for an adult to hit a defenceless child?

Many of the worst behaved children come from environments where slapping is the norm.

There is no evidence that it's any more effective a disciplinary tool than non-violent methods.

The naughty step works well, depending on the age of the child. Parents give up on the naughty step too easily, though. Parents who persevere (by constantly sending the kid back for as a long as it takes) find it to be very effective. As they reach playgroup age, there is a negative stigma attached to being in the naughty corner.But there are so many other non-violent means to discipline a child...toys can be confiscated, treats can be cancelled. As they get older, their playstation can be taken away for a few hourd/days, or they can be grounded.

The most important thing when disciplining a child is to make a "threat" (non violent), like "if you do that again, I'm going to do (insert punishment)". The you have to carry it out. I speak to so many parents who, when pressed, admit to making empty threats all the time. That's a sure-fire way of eroding your authority.

But there's just no need for violence.

As an adult, my human rights defend me from violence. We should defend the rights of children as much as, if not more, than adults IMHO.

nikki 122

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm consistently amazed that adults think it's ok to hit a small child.

It's not acceptable for an adult to hit me. It's not acceptable for an adult to hit an elderly person.

So why on earth is it acceptable for an adult to hit a defenceless child?

Many of the worst behaved children come from environments where slapping is the norm.

There is no evidence that it's any more effective a disciplinary tool than non-violent methods.

The naughty step works well, depending on the age of the child. Parents give up on the naughty step too easily, though. Parents who persevere (by constantly sending the kid back for as a long as it takes) find it to be very effective. As they reach playgroup age, there is a negative stigma attached to being in the naughty corner.But there are so many other non-violent means to discipline a child...toys can be confiscated, treats can be cancelled. As they get older, their playstation can be taken away for a few hourd/days, or they can be grounded.

The most important thing when disciplining a child is to make a "threat" (non violent), like "if you do that again, I'm going to do (insert punishment)". The you have to carry it out. I speak to so many parents who, when pressed, admit to making empty threats all the time. That's a sure-fire way of eroding your authority.

But there's just no need for violence.

As an adult, my human rights defend me from violence. We should defend the rights of children as much as, if not more, than adults IMHO.

completely agree i volunteered in a womens refuge and most of the children there were very confused as to why it's deemed 'okay' to hit thier mammy and them.. and whats the deal with the refuge not allowing boys over 14 into it, teenageers can be as damaged by domestic violence as children!!

AckwelFoley

There are nearly 200 votes on this, im a little suprised at the results, i didnt think the yes vote would be as high.

But at the end of the day, i think peoplecan draw the line between whats slapping and whats plain old abuse.

one arguement i heard recently was a gut that said, most ppl slap their kids when they are angry .. this then gives the kissage that when they are angry its ok to hit out...

Not sure i agree.. or disagree, but i found it an interesting comment

Dave!

Well snyper that is essentially true... Not necessarily that you smack the child when you're angry, but it's usually a last resort, isn't it? You don't hit the child first thing; you tell them to stop, what they're doing is wrong, etc. And if that doesn't work, and you've exhausted all other options, you resort to hitting them. Surely it does give the child the message that, if nothing else works, you can use violence.

Raspberry

I've got nothing against beating children. If the parents want to beat their children that's their business.

Lockstep

Raspberry wrote: »

I've got nothing against beating children. If the parents want to beat their children that's their business.

Note the way she says "beat"

not smack.


"beat"

Concorde

<<Yawn!>>

This thread has been done to death.

Regardless of people's opinions, we have problems like this, and nothing is being done about it. Parents are too scared to enforce discipline on their children, because there'll always be somebody tut-tutting no matter what form of discipline is used - and you may be reported to Social Services. Therefore, youngsters constantly get away with bad behaviour and it escalates into much worse when they're older.

Parents should be allowed to discipline their children in ways they find most effective without any interference from busybodies. One never knows, you might see a decline in anti-social behaviour.

Manic Moran

DaveMcG wrote: »

Well snyper that is essentially true... Not necessarily that you smack the child when you're angry, but it's usually a last resort, isn't it? You don't hit the child first thing; you tell them to stop, what they're doing is wrong, etc. And if that doesn't work, and you've exhausted all other options, you resort to hitting them. Surely it does give the child the message that, if nothing else works, you can use violence.

As long as the moral right is on your side, is there a problem with that?

"Walk softly, but carry a big stick."

NTM

TequilaMockingBird

La la la la laaaaa

I can't hear you....

*hands over ears*

Dudess

Raspberry wrote: »

I've got nothing against beating children. If the parents want to beat their children that's their business.

A troll too far. Banned.

_Kaiser_

I read through the first few pages but it seemed to be going in circles..

Me I come down on the "an occassional slap does no harm side". NATURALLY I'm not talking about beating the child senseless :rolleyes:, but this is yet another example of the PC-crap that's become too prevalent in modern soceity. What's worse is parents are being conditioned to think they're incapable of doing something that has been done for thousands of years now without the need for any intervention (for the most part) - raise their children with a sense of right and wrong, respect for themselves and others, and to contribute positively to soceity.

I got the occasional slap (and even the wooden spoon) when I was a kid, as did my younger sister. As someone else said, it hasn't resulted in Vietnam-style flashbacks, nor has it made us violent psychopaths like some people here seem to think it must eventually lead to. If anything, a lack of consistent (key point) and enforced discipline during a child's formative years, is what results in these problems later on.

This whole school of thought that you should "reason" with a 4 year old when they misbehave, or put it down to ADD is simply an excuse for poor and lazy parenting, and typical of the PC bull**** I mentioned earlier.
Result: kid acts up and the parents, in an effort to shut them up, plonk them in front of the TV/XBox, or give in to trantrums and stuff them with sugar-filled junk food and TV dinners, and expect the schools to educate and discipline the kids for them.

Is it any wonder schools are full of out-of-control little scumbags which of course leads to much more serious problems down the line.
I mean, if you charted the rise of PC-ness against increases in antisocial behaviour in the past 15/20 years, I'm sure there'd be some very interesting correlations.

AckwelFoley

but this is yet another example of the PC-crap that's become too prevalent in modern soceity

Anyone that knows me, will be well aware im far from PC. Although my opinion on the subject sounds Pc, its not meant to be, its just my opinion on this particular issue.