Small bookmakers' mistakes

dsmythy

I was reading an article in the Racing Post last week. The writer was talking about small bookmakers who make their own odds often with a high overround. The common knowledge on these coupons tends to be that you shouldn't back them because of the high overround.

However the writer argues that you shouldn't just ignore them and actually have a look at the odds. The reasoning he uses behind this is that such bookmakers may get lazy and are happy depending on their overround. This may cause them to spend less time making up their prices and checking them against others and so leave them open to making mistakes. Just something to think about.

Who are the smallest bookmakers in Ireland that make their own prices?

ODD-JOB

Interesting topic alright, I'd say you'd be hard pressed these days to find a bookie whos offering any way off odds !

What with the internet aroud , you could pretty much price up anything in minutes.
Also if they were a really small bookie , you have a bit of trouble finding out about their prices without actually going down to the shop and getting it all displayed .

I'm sure there's great value to be had on somethings as the bookie would be slow to react to certain events, but the trouble is finding that bet !

punchestown

dsmythy wrote: »

Who are the smallest bookmakers in Ireland that make their own prices?

Very hard to pinpoint as no bookmaker would stand out with regard pricing up markets. Despite protestations from some bookies, a lot of prices are either taken off Paddy Power with a few adjustments made to hide the blatantly obvious, prices taken from Betfair with adjustment to make overround bigger or prices are fed from bookmakers such as terry rogers or bruce betting who employ genuine odds compilers to price up markets and these are distributed to smaller indies!

wb

Not 100% on topic but related:

If you're backing on track, always walk down to the far end of the rails and look for a better price. These guys are calling out for business, and will often give a better price if you ask. I once got 5/2 on a horse that was generally available at 2/1 and less in some places. Even if you get 11/10 about an evens shot, it's worth your while. As we all know, every penny and every trick on our side counts. If you're like me and record your bets in spreadsheets, you'll quickly see what these type of differences make.

dsmythy

punchestown wrote: »

Very hard to pinpoint as no bookmaker would stand out with regard pricing up markets. Despite protestations from some bookies, a lot of prices are either taken off Paddy Power with a few adjustments made to hide the blatantly obvious, prices taken from Betfair with adjustment to make overround bigger or prices are fed from bookmakers such as terry rogers or bruce betting who employ genuine odds compilers to price up markets and these are distributed to smaller indies!

Ah the likes of the Top Chance coupon. I gave up checking that one out as it never has the best price on anything. EVER!

raheny red

Just go in to a bookies that put its sports bets into manual. Chance your arm and put down a better price by 'mistake'. If it wins and you get 'your' price fair play but if they cop it just act dumb

dsmythy

raheny red wrote: »

Just go in to a bookies that put its sports bets into manual. Chance your arm and put down a better price by 'mistake'. If it wins and you get 'your' price fair play but if they cop it just act dumb

That would normally bring up a moral dilemma but in this case it's strangely absent.

raheny red

dsmythy wrote: »

That would normally bring up a moral dilemma but in this case it's strangely absent.

Where did I say that I do it myself? I wouldn't do it myself but I know a couple of folk who would do it ocassionally and would get away with it more times than not.

eoghan104

Used to do it all the time when they had the manual betslips. I would have no moral dilema doing it as the bookies have no morals themselves!

The best was a time me and a friend were in the bookies and there was a race on in S.A. The race had just finished and a 100/1 shot won but the board still showed live prices and said "going behind" at the top. My mate legged it up the counter and put €5e/w on it and got paid in full 20 mins later! Id have no regrets doing something like that in a bookies.

slumped

eoghan104 wrote: »

Used to do it all the time when they had the manual betslips. I would have no moral dilema doing it as the bookies have no morals themselves!

The best was a time me and a friend were in the bookies and there was a race on in S.A. The race had just finished and a 100/1 shot won but the board still showed live prices and said "going behind" at the top. My mate legged it up the counter and put €5e/w on it and got paid in full 20 mins later! Id have no regrets doing something like that in a bookies.

Does that not count as getting money under false pretences or fraud?

Good scam though....!!!

lolkelly

eoghan104 wrote: »

Used to do it all the time when they had the manual betslips. I would have no moral dilema doing it as the bookies have no morals themselves!

The best was a time me and a friend were in the bookies and there was a race on in S.A. The race had just finished and a 100/1 shot won but the board still showed live prices and said "going behind" at the top. My mate legged it up the counter and put €5e/w on it and got paid in full 20 mins later! Id have no regrets doing something like that in a bookies.

You know you're not doing it just to the bookie though.. you could have cost the person behind the counter their job?!!

Pj!

lolkelly wrote: »

You know you're not doing it just to the bookie though.. you could have cost the person behind the counter their job?!!

When a bookie is taking money from a gambler, they may be taking food money or child support from a family.

lolkelly

Forky wrote: »

When a bookie is taking money from a gambler, they may be taking food money or child support from a family.

Thats two completely different things....Bookies dont try to decieve or 'steal' from others! The odds are there for everyone to see and choose to bet on, if they wish.

What the poster did was fraud and could end up costing an innocent person their job through no fault of their own.

cson

Forky wrote: »

When a bookie is taking money from a gambler, they may be taking food money or child support from a family.

I see the trials for Stupid Post Of The Year are starting early this time around.

By your extremely warped rationale Forky, every Publican could be guilty of the same claim, every Newsagents could be guilty too through scratchcards, lotto tickets and cigarettes. Now I don't know about you but certainly any Bookies I've been in there has been no gun put to my head to bet, nevermind go into the place.

So perhaps you might think before you go posting anymore sweeping statements. Then again ignorance seems to be the currency of the modern world these days.

Bubs101

slumped wrote: »

Does that not count as getting money under false pretences or fraud?

Good scam though....!!!

I would have thought that if they were offering the price when you placed the bet you could claim you were just taking them up on their offer.

ArmaniJeanss

eoghan104 wrote: »

Used to do it all the time when they had the manual betslips. I would have no moral dilema doing it as the bookies have no morals themselves!

The best was a time me and a friend were in the bookies and there was a race on in S.A. The race had just finished and a 100/1 shot won but the board still showed live prices and said "going behind" at the top. My mate legged it up the counter and put €5e/w on it and got paid in full 20 mins later! Id have no regrets doing something like that in a bookies.

Realistically there is very little difference between this and jumping over the counter and robbing the contents of the till. There may be a little bit of violence needed in the latter, but they are both theft, so why so many of you are condoning theft I don't know.

dsmythy

raheny red wrote: »

Where did I say that I do it myself? I wouldn't do it myself but I know a couple of folk who would do it ocassionally and would get away with it more times than not.

I was talking about myself there. Though i feel a bit hypocritical saying that because the only time the bookie made a mistake i gave the money back. The cashier paid out 100 Euro more than she should of and after some consideration i decided to give it back.

Pj!

cson wrote: »

I see the trials for Stupid Post Of The Year are starting early this time around.

By your extremely warped rationale Forky, every Publican could be guilty of the same claim, every Newsagents could be guilty too through scratchcards, lotto tickets and cigarettes. Now I don't know about you but certainly any Bookies I've been in there has been no gun put to my head to bet, nevermind go into the place.

So perhaps you might think before you go posting anymore sweeping statements. Then again ignorance seems to be the currency of the modern world these days.

LoL.

The poster said that the boards showed the race as not started. This is a system error. This was not the cashiers fault. The cashier would never be fired for a system error on a race, especially a S.A. race.

I thought it quite stupid to worry about the cashier in this case. Hence my similiarly themed reply (as in 'but if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle').

every Publican could be guilty of the same claim, every Newsagents could be guilty too through scratchcards, lotto tickets and cigarettes. Now I don't know about you but certainly any Bookies I've been in there has been no gun put to my head to bet, nevermind go into the place.

You kind of got it, but you didn't. Not to worry.

eoghan104

lolkelly wrote: »

Thats two completely different things....Bookies dont try to decieve or 'steal' from others! The odds are there for everyone to see and choose to bet on, if they wish.

What the poster did was fraud and could end up costing an innocent person their job through no fault of their own.

Well trying not to be pedantic, it was through fault of their own. She should have checked what time the bet was placed and that the price was correct so in fact it was her fault.

eoghan104

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Realistically there is very little difference between this and jumping over the counter and robbing the contents of the till. There may be a little bit of violence needed in the latter, but they are both theft, so why so many of you are condoning theft I don't know.

Well "realistacally" there is a very significant difference between this and jumping over the counter. Maybe the word you were looking for was "theoretically"?

Taking advantage of a bookies error is different to forcefully taking money using violence. My friend took an oppurtunity to expose an error and all he really did was give the bookmaker a chance to make a mistake by paying him out? How is that "realistically" similar?

raheny red

I've seen/heard of plenty of scams taken place in smaller bookies. Usually a punter would do a multiple bet. Picking a first goalscorer in a game that's being played that night and picking a horse/dog that has just won. Goes off and comes back to say that the player is suspended and that he didn't realise he wasn't playing. He then tries to get paid out on the single on the horse/dog. There are many scams such as a slow counter and what not. There are even a smaller number of people going around Ireland each day doing these sort of scams and that is there way of making a living. It can be easy to do considering that alot of counter assistants are female between the age 18-25.

Collie D

Would you mind explaining what a slow counter is? I'm not going to scam my local PP, especially seeing as my cousin works there. Just curious. I remember seeing a security message on the staff monitor in PP a few moths ago about a slow counter or slow hand or something

punchestown

Collie D wrote: »

Would you mind explaining what a slow counter is? I'm not going to scam my local PP, especially seeing as my cousin works there. Just curious. I remember seeing a security message on the staff monitor in PP a few moths ago about a slow counter or slow hand or something

usually a punter who places a bet on an event with a quick fire result such as a dog race. he will approach the counter just as the last dog is loaded/hare running signal with a largish bet on a dog in that race. The cashier will quickly put the bet into the system as the hare is running and the lids are nearly about to rise but the slow counter will fiddle around his pockets 'pretending' to be about to pull out the wad of notes to pay the bet. A quick glance at the tv screens will reveal whether his dog is in the process of running well or has zero chance after a bad break, and he will then just walk away muttering something about the wrong bet/wrong race or if his dog looks like winning, he will happily peel off the amount staked on the bet with a smile on his face and a warning from the cashier about getting his bets on before the hares running announcement in future.

Collie D

Cheers for that. Seen that myself but can't quite understand how he can get awy with walking away without handing over the readies

raheny red

Collie D wrote: »

Cheers for that. Seen that myself but can't quite understand how he can get awy with walking away without handing over the readies

Some would though. For example, he'll jot down €200 win. Start chatting to the assistant while listening to the dog race. If he hears the dog is doing terrible he will try to claim that it is a €2.00 win stake.

cson

You get a lot of that. And a lot of general acting the ****e. Easy way to deal with it; point to the "Management reserves the right to refuse admission" sign and out the door with them.