Marcel Luske: Far and away the worst player I have ever seen.

CelticPhantom

Marcel Luske wrote: »

Hoi,

Ik was aangetoond dat deze discussie door een vriend van mij en zou graag antwoord. Ik vind het zeer beledigend dat iemand die betrokken is bij de media kan worden openlijk kritiek op mij als dit.

Ik ben van mening dat mijn toernooi record spreekt voor zich en kan niet worden aangevoerd. Kijkend naar de handen in een vacuüm is zinloos en i kan hebben gehad redenen voor de i handen hebben gespeeld enige tijd in het verleden.
Ik ben meer dan bereid om de uitdaging originele poster voor HU VOOR ROLLZ elk gewenst moment.

Thank you,
Marcel.

Marcel, Move up levels

Jayminator

thechamp87 wrote: »

Just another groundbreaking and inspiring thread imo

Sense at last..Stop the biatching guys.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

What a waste of an hour:(

Didn't read all of it, and don't wanna get involved but to all who are saying this is based on jealousy and that OP can't comment on Marcel's play 'cos his own isn't of a similar standard..........I'm crap at football, but it doesn't mean I can't point out that John O'Shea is a shyte footballer. It also doesn't mean i'm jealous.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't read all of it, and don't wanna get involved but to all who are saying this is based on jealousy and that OP can't comment on Marcel's play 'cos his own isn't of a similar standard..........I'm crap at football, but it doesn't mean I can't point out that John O'Shea is a shyte footballer. It also doesn't mean i'm jealous.

In all fairness, Marcel Luske had been one of the top Europens in Poker for a long time.
Every player goes through phases of not playing well. I played with him twice this year and he didn't play well either time, but that doesn't mean he is a bad poker player.
Furthermore, he is a gentleman and a great ambassador for the game of Poker.

NickyOD

Check out Marcel Luske's performance today. What a load of nonsense.

Andy Black in with a shot to win this.

http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/partypoker-premier-league-2008/main-event/editpost/515.43695

fabsoul

eagle eye wrote: »

In all fairness, Marcel Luske had been one of the top Europens in Poker for a long time.
Every player goes through phases of not playing well. I played with him twice this year and he didn't play well either time, but that doesn't mean he is a bad poker player.
Furthermore, he is a gentleman and a great ambassador for the game of Poker.

+1 Agreed

NickyOD

Here is the problem I have with Luske. Yes, good players go through phases of playing bad.

This is usually a period of bluffing too much or calling down too much or maybe folding too much or all of the above but every decent player maintains a basic understanding of the game.

All week Luske has been over-shoving with garbage overcalling on bad draws without bluffing the river. I'm talking about 7 different six handed STTs where he played a huge number of hands shocking bad. How many of these hands will be show on TV I have no idea but when someone plays this many hands so bad I just can't see how people can rate him.

phantom_lord

hmmm, "live tourny donk sucks at poker", in other news, the sky is still upwards and ketamine makes people do strange things...here's Tom with the weather.

cooker3

phantom_lord wrote: »

hmmm, "live tourny donk sucks at poker", in other news, the sky is still upwards and ketamine makes people do strange things...here's Tom with the weather.

I am surprised it took you this long to come in

gilmour

Andy has just won it, the monkey is off his back, congrats!

phantom_lord

cooker3 wrote: »

I am surprised it took you this long to come in

i said i was gonna cut down on my "lol donkaments" posting.

carfax

gilmour wrote: »

Andy has just won it, the monkey is off his back, congrats!

Woo hoo, result.

Idu

NickyOD wrote: »

lol! I love Tony G.

Logic has gone out the window completely now as Tony G CALLS with {Q-Spades}{8-Hearts}!!

How can you start a thread like this berating one player for some questionable moves and then half way through praise another player for making a similar play?

NickyOD

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

How can you start a thread like this berating one player for some questionable moves and then half way through praise another player for making a similar play?

You don't think he was priced in with his Q-8o?

Requiem4adream

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

How can you start a thread like this berating one player for some questionable moves and then half way through praise another player for making a similar play?

+1, although it's journalistic privelege to come up with sensationalist (bs) thread titles and articles!! Dont question the journos!!!

We've no stack size for Tony G on the Q8 hand and it looks a bit crapshooty tbh but looks very spewy to me, lucky for him he got the best case scenario out of it.

Goodluck2me

Requiem4adream wrote: »

+1, although it's journalistic privelege to come up with sensationalist (bs) thread titles and articles!! Dont question the journos!!!

We've no stack size for Tony G on the Q8 hand and it looks a bit crapshooty tbh but looks very spewy to me, lucky for him he got the best case scenario out of it.

Q7 or better.

eagle eye

NickyOD wrote: »

Here is the problem I have with Luske. Yes, good players go through phases of playing bad.

This is usually a period of bluffing too much or calling down too much or maybe folding too much or all of the above but every decent player maintains a basic understanding of the game.

All week Luske has been over-shoving with garbage overcalling on bad draws without bluffing the river. I'm talking about 7 different six handed STTs where he played a huge number of hands shocking bad. How many of these hands will be show on TV I have no idea but when someone plays this many hands so bad I just can't see how people can rate him.

This is a man who has twice been named European Player of the Year. He has 17 cashes in numerous disciplines at the WSOP, including five final tables, and two top 15 finishes in recent years in the Main Event. He has also appeared at 4 EPT final tables, and has numerous wins and cashes in other events all around the World. He has earned just short of $3.5million in live events during his career.

So can you tell me what level of expertise and what qualifications are required to state the following after watching him play a couple of STTs.

'I really cannot believe how poor a player this man is.'

Pub07

eagle eye wrote: »

This is a man who has twice been named European Player of the Year. He has 17 cashes in numerous disciplines at the WSOP, including five final tables, and two top 15 finishes in recent years in the Main Event. He has also appeared at 4 EPT final tables, and has numerous wins and cashes in other events all around the World. He has earned just short of $3.5million in live events during his career.

Yes but how much did he lose?

TommyGunne

eagle eye wrote: »

This is a man who has twice been named European Player of the Year. He has 17 cashes in numerous disciplines at the WSOP, including five final tables, and two top 15 finishes in recent years in the Main Event. He has also appeared at 4 EPT final tables, and has numerous wins and cashes in other events all around the World. He has earned just short of $3.5million in live events during his career.

So can you tell me what level of expertise and what qualifications are required to state the following after watching him play a couple of STTs.

'I really cannot believe how poor a player this man is.'

This can show a number of things;
1) Everyone else playing live tourney poker sucked until a couple of years ago. Note downturn in results. This is no doubt very true. Fields were much softer then and are apparently still soft for good players, but not as much.
2) He ran sick good. Very easy to do this live as its only over a small sample of hands.
3)Live databases suck. Notoriously true. Its almost impossible to take assumptions from these as they do not take into account ROI, number of tournaments played etc.

I would take a lot of heed of what Nicky O'D says. He always posts what seems to be sense (:p) and I would respect his opinion on this. He is probably right after all. If CTS or ike played a few hands like this they would be lambasted.

NickyOD

eagle eye wrote: »

He has 17 cashes in numerous disciplines at the WSOP, including five final tables,

It's common knowledge and even Marcel will admit to this that he has not been very successful across the water considering number of events he has actually entered. He has probably blown more chip leads in World series events than any other player.

Phil Hellmuth this week called him the one player who is the worst at "sealing the deal". When it comes to accumulating chips early he's the man, but he only ever has one gear.

eagle eye wrote: »

and two top 15 finishes in recent years in the Main Event.

Yes there's no doubt that's an impressive achievement, but so is winning the WSOP in an 8,000+ field, but I don't rate Jamie Gold or Jerry Yang either.

eagle eye wrote: »

He has also appeared at 4 EPT final tables,.

Marcel has had 3 EPT cashes and only two final tables. Those were a 9th and a 7th. When you look at how many EPTs he has played he's definitely definitely have made a loss if Pokerstars weren't buying him in.

eagle eye wrote: »

and has numerous wins and cashes in other events all around the World. He has earned just short of $3.5million in live events during his career.

This is not profit.

Look I don't rate players by results. I rate them by what I see at the poker table. You don't have to agree with me. I'm just saying he plays pretty poorly for someone with his record.

Requiem4adream

TommyGunne wrote: »

I would take a lot of heed of what Nicky O'D says. He always posts what seems to be sense (:p) and I would respect his opinion on this. He is probably right after all. If CTS or ike played a few hands like this they would be lambasted.

"far and away the worst player i have ever seen" and you think the man talks sense? okeley dokeley.

Devilfish rates Marcel Luske as 1 of the best in Europe and someone who he respects. I'd take Devilfish's opinion over Nickys any day of the week and twice on sunday. If Nicky doesnt rate him fair enough but this thread title is on a par with the "world class manager" statement John Delaney came out with before getting Staunton!!!

Never heard of CTS or Ike, i googled CTS and found his old blog. On it there are hands which imo taken in isolation make him look donkified. Everyone can play hands badly, no need for knee-jerk sensationalist threads! The End!

Theresalwaysone

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Never heard of CTS

wow.... really? By far and away the BEST 6max player around at the moment.

Ollieboy

I've watch Marcel a couple of times and I've always doubted his game. But his results are impressive and he's mentor some of the top dutch players over the last couple of years. He also backs a lot of these players online and live. So he as a eye for talent.

I think he might be a player thats bored with the game and tries different styles to see how other players react etc.

But from a personal point of view, I dont know how wise it his for Nicky to come on here and comment about a professional player, while he his meant to be a independent journalist on the game. I know if I was Marcel and saw this tread I would be onto the power at poker news.

eagle eye

NickyOD wrote: »

there's no doubt that's an impressive achievement, but so is winning the WSOP in an 8,000+ field, but I don't Jamie Gold or Jerry Yang either.

You can hardly compare winning one and finishing high up in two in a row. Everyone talks about Dan Harrington's two ft's in a row, it was the same two years as Marcel finished 14th and 10th.

[/quote] Marcel has had 3 EPT cashes and only two final tables. Those were a 9th and a 7th. When you look at how many EPTs he has played he's definitely definitely have made a loss if Pokerstars weren't buying him in.[/quote]
He had four cashes, i just checked it to make sure, three ft's, 7th twice and 9th once. And the fact that he is payed in makes it profit.

[/quote] Look I don't rate players by results. I rate them by what I see at the poker table. You don't have to agree with me. I'm just saying he plays pretty poorly for someone with his record.[/quote]
I still cannot understand how you can rate someone based on a couple of STTs you seen with such a small amount of hands over such a small time period. If you want to come out with something like this, you should have more knowledge of how he has played over a much longer period of time.

From what i know personally, and have heard from other players, he is among the very best at putting a player on a hand. He personally called my cards to me and he was right the one time he played at the same table as me.

TommyGunne

eagle eye wrote: »

He personally called my cards to me and he was right the one time he played at the same table as me.

Lol my bro does this to me every couple of hands.

Theresalwaysone

TommyGunne wrote: »

Lol my bro does this to me every couple of hands.

Marcel Gunne

HoLLLLLaments

someone dumped a bucket full of dumb in this thread

Flushdraw

Yeah..he played that 56s hand badly to get paid on 3 streets by 2 players in the IPC :rolleyes:

I take it back, he played the A8 horrible a couple of hands later haha!

Ollieboy

what did he try to say in the interview, he wants to slap someone over a cup of tea....lol

mdwexford

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Never heard of CTS or Ike, i googled CTS and found his old blog. On it there are hands which imo taken in isolation make him look donkified. Everyone can play hands badly, no need for knee-jerk sensationalist threads! The End!

BLASPHEMER!!!!

Ollieboy

Flushdraw wrote: »

Yeah..he played that 56s hand badly to get paid on 3 streets by 2 players in the IPC :rolleyes:

I take it back, he played the A8 horrible a couple of hands later haha!

that value bet on a pair board after the raise call on the turn was horrible from a top pro

mdwexford

4k into 28k on the river with the nuts, wp.......way to get valoooooo

Chucky the tree

Ollieboy wrote: »

But from a personal point of view, I dont know how wise it his for Nicky to come on here and comment about a professional player, while he his meant to be a independent journalist on the game. .

Isnt a journalist meant too give there opinions on things? He's perfectly entitled to think marcel is **** and too say it.

carrigeen

mdwexford wrote: »

4k into 28k on the river with the nuts, wp.......way to get valoooooo

did he not only have a few black and green chips left behind?

mdwexford

carrigeen wrote: »

did he not only have a few black and green chips left behind?

Not too sure to be honest, just heard the 4k bet and saw it being called.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Isnt a journalist meant too give there opinions on things? He's perfectly entitled to think marcel is **** and too say it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but for an opinion to be respected it must have some substance and I don't believe we have that here, being based on a small sample of hands over a very short time period.
If you watched Tiger Woods play golf for three days and he didn't play well, would you then consider him a bad golfer? Or if he didn't play well for a whole year, would you then say he is a terrible golfer?

Lazare

eagle eye wrote: »

He had four cashes, i just checked it to make sure, three ft's, 7th twice and 9th once. And the fact that he is payed in makes it profit.

Repeat that to yourself, then have a good long think about it.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

sikes

IMO

HoLLLLLaments

lol at comparing tiger woods to marcel luske.

Requiem4adream

i must be sick but that cheese still looks nice :rolleyes:

eagle eye

Lazare wrote: »

Repeat that to yourself, then have a good long think about it.

All alcohol induced comments. Accepted.

Flushdraw

Requiem4adream wrote: »

i must be sick but that cheese still looks nice :rolleyes:

What the fck sort of cheese is that?? Looks disgusting!

eagle eye

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

lol at comparing tiger woods to marcel luske.

A slightly over the top comparison. Hehe. I should booze more often.

Requiem4adream

Flushdraw wrote: »

What the fck sort of cheese is that?? Looks disgusting!

Not sure of the type, i think it's the exotic Swiss MOULDY brand lol. I'd still eat it, cheese

NickyOD

Ollieboy wrote: »

I've watch Marcel a couple of times and I've always doubted his game. But his results are impressive and he's mentor some of the top dutch players over the last couple of years. He also backs a lot of these players online and live. So he as a eye for talent.

I think he might be a player thats bored with the game and tries different styles to see how other players react etc.

But from a personal point of view, I dont know how wise it his for Nicky to come on here and comment about a professional player, while he his meant to be a independent journalist on the game. I know if I was Marcel and saw this tread I would be onto the power at poker news.

Perhaps the title of the thread should be the "worst highly raited professional I've ever seen" Obviously I don't think he's THEE worst player.

As a professional who plays 6 handed TV table format very often I don't think it's acceptable for him not to understand ICM or equity which he clearly doesn't.

In his exit hand (5th place) in the final he open shoved over 10BBs with Q8o from the cut-off and everyone at the table had seen him do this with rags all week increasing the likelihood of a call. Payouts were 250K, 120K, 60K, 40K, 30K, 20K. If he is experimenting with his play then it's quite an expensive experiment. It's much more likely that he just doesn't know how to play this format.

Eddy Scharf is a player I have an enormous amount of respect for both as a gentleman and a player and it's sad to see that someone like him has to come 2nd or 3rd just to be invited back to play next year, when Hellmuth can play crap, come dead last in the league but still be guaranteed a seat next season and the reason for in his own words is "but I'm good for TV!" I would much rather watch an on-line qualifier who plays very well than watch a cartoonish fake like Luske or Hellmuth play like a donkey.

Also, I'm freelance. I don't work directly for anyone so I am free to voice my opinion here however I wish, the same as anyone else.

Goodluck2me

eagle eye wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but for an opinion to be respected it must have some substance and I don't believe we have that here, being based on a small sample of hands over a very short time period.

eagle eye wrote:

, he is among the very best at putting a player on a hand. He personally called my cards to me and he was right the one time he played at the same table as me.
Yesterday 14:29

ORLY

Doc Farrell

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Isnt a journalist meant too give there opinions on things? He's perfectly entitled to think marcel is **** and too say it.

exactly.and congrats to those who chose to speak with intelligence on the matter, on either side. good thread, worth reading.

sikes

Doc Farrell wrote: »

exactly.and congrats to those who chose to speak with intelligence on the matter, on either side. good thread, worth reading.

ty