John Delaney/FAI... the bigger picture...

ditpoker

there is an AWFUL lot of anti-john delaney and anti-fai sentiment on this forum. my main gripe with this is that its very easy to say "the national team suck, therefore john delaney and the fai must also suck"

the fai's responsibility far exceeds that of just the national team. Last year Irish national teams played over 150 internationals, the senior team played about 8 or so. There are countless underage teams, womens teams, disabled/limited ability teams that all fall under the the fai's responsibilities. These teams all require managers, travel, accomodation, training, coaches, physios etc and all have to be funded somehow. It would be remiss of the fai to ignore these duties and the quality of our underage coaching has improved hugely in the last 10 years (evidence in the numbers of teams and the number of coaches and the quality of our younger teams).

Furthermore, the irish football is predominantly an amateur affair. As such the FAI's commitments should be into developing the grassroots of the game and benefiting the masses. I believe the figure of paid professional footballers is apprx 2000 (FAI Development report*), however the number of women playing registered football is 13k+, the number of adults is 60k+, and the main dimension of irish football, schoolboy football has approx 90+ registered footballers. All these figures are up over the last few years. This is not a fluke. If anything football development is hampered by the presence of other distractions such as playstation or pitches being replaced by carparks and apartments so the driving force is somewhere, guess where, the fai and john delaney.

It all has to be funded, until recently the FAI has been hamstrung by not owning its own stadium. The relationship with croke park is a step in the right direction and the new shared landsdown will bring much more funds to the fai. This progress has been made by the fai under john delaney. Also, the sale of merrion square and putting all fai efforts under the new headquarters is a stroke of genius... its irish football mecca!

The number of registered referees is up. Again, i cant source this (yet) but to the best of my knowledge it is up from approx 1,000 referres to 1300, a substantial 30% increase. Without referees the game is gone. The training and development of referees is an inititiave being run by the fai under john delaney. We need more refs, the fai is creating them.

Coaching is the lifeblood of our nations football development. Coaching courses, training, assigning new coaches to work with different teams, is growing growing growing. The whole steve staunton affair, yes the fai saved alot of € getting a cheap option in, but lets face it, we'd have struggled to qualify from a group with germany and the czechs at the best of times. Say the FAI saved €100,000 on the national team manager by hiring staunton, and with that they put on 20 €5,000 coaching courses, that produce say a ridiculous minimum of 20 coaches... 1 coach trained per €5,000... each coach coaches and trains in a school, or at schoolboy level, or takes on a girls team, say they end up over the course of 10 years each developing 100 kids into good footballers... x 20 coaches..... 2000 new good footballers, chances are one or two of them can make a career playing football, chances are one or two of them can also go into coaching, maybe one becomes a ref, or a physio, or sets up an amateur team... the knock on effect is H U G E ! ! !... so would i have preferred a more expensive national team manager or the cheaper option... chances are both would struggle to have succeeded in that group... so take the hit, develop our game, reap the rewards in many years to come. now we have a slightly easier group, more money (on account of denis o'brien, croke park, planned income from landsdown, etc) and we have brought in a class manager... all this achieved by the FAI and John delaney...

Well done John Delaney. Well done FAI. Keep up the good work.


* The development report is a ppt file that I have come across before and was at a presentation of, attended and presented by John Delaney, if I can find it I will put a link here. Its a public document. My figures above are from memory, they are accurate as far as i am aware. If someone wants to disprove them please do, but I doubt you can.

Mr Alan

ladies and gentlemen.... please welcome...... DES!

ps. ditpoker, you have no idea what you've just done!

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

ladies and gentlemen.... please welcome...... DES!

ps. ditpoker, you have no idea what you've just done!

I am currently deconstructing the post.

It's a long one, and I'm kinda busy in work, but it will go along the lines of this.

John Delaney = gibbering clown.

FAI = clown association.

ditpoker

Mr Alan wrote: »

ladies and gentlemen.... please welcome...... DES!

ps. ditpoker, you have no idea what you've just done!

lol...if nothing else it will keep me entertained in work, where unlike des, i am not busy!

MrJoeSoap

Mr Alan wrote: »

ladies and gentlemen.... please welcome...... DES!

ps. ditpoker, you have no idea what you've just done!

Rofl. I'd do it myself but Des is the best man for the job here I reckon.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

I am currently deconstructing the post.

It's a long one, and I'm kinda busy in work, but it will go along the lines of this.

John Delaney = gibbering clown.

FAI = clown association.

Well done on proving his point.

The reality is as ditpoker says, the bulk of Oirish fans simply don't want to know about the huge progress being made across the board. Delaney gets judged on stan and stan alone and even when the FAI play a blinder and get Traps, the vitriol remains.

There are two phenomenon at play here. Deliebrate ignorance of the good job the FAI are doing at grass roots (more footballers than GAA players in all codes) and LoI level from the Ole's and a sheep mentality that criticise because thats what everyone else is doing. Its getting very, very boring.

Des, you need to actually articulate why you despise the FAI so much as its totally irrational.

Mr Alan

oh christ, you're all just making him angrier!

(runs for cover!)

MrJoeSoap

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Des, you need to actually articulate why you despise the FAI so much as its totally irrational.

You are an Eircom League fan and you actually like the FAI? Do you visit foot.ie much?

I'll rehash some of my points from yesterday.

- I'm not happy because John Delaney is still in charge of the FAI. After being promised a "world-class manager" in 2005, Steve Staunton was given a FOUR year contract for a job he was completely underqualified for, and will probably cost over £1.4m in compensation alone given that he only "managed" (for want of a better word) for 21 months.

- The FAI did not appoint Giovanni Trappatoni, don't forget that. The three man panel did. Remember Delaney saying he was distancing himself from the process a couple of months back? How many Football Associations on the planet don't even appoint their own managers?

- Don Givens was put in temporary charge of the Irish national team. The man with more enemies than hot dinners himself.

- Delaney is aiming high this time around though, he says we're aiming for the playoffs. Call him realistic if you want but if you don't set your sights high then you'll only be disappointed.

- Fans not allowed to voice their opinions at games with "Delaney Out" banners or posters....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTIBPQ4ArCw

- In Delaneys time in charge of the FAI, Dublin City, Limerick, Kilkenny and very nearly Shelbourne and Shamrock Rovers, have gone out of business. Progress indeed. Clubs are being fined for the most ridiculous things, every EL fan knows that. The licensing farce. The Genesis Report. Delaney has done nothing good for domestic soccer.

- He has given himself a 6 year contract.

MrJoeSoap

Here it comes!

_blank_

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Well done on proving his point.

Well done on reading my full post ONYD, did you miss this part, or are you deliberately ignoring it, or are you just enamoured with the FAI because they let Rovers away with daylight robbery, downright murder and a litany of offences?

I am currently deconstructing the post.

It's a long one, and I'm kinda busy in work,

In case you missed it.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The reality is as ditpoker says, the bulk of Oirish fans simply don't want to know about the huge progress being made across the board.

In fairness here, I could hardly be labelled "Oirish" ffs.

Bit rich coming from a Celtic fan tbh. The most "Oirish" of the clubs out there.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Delaney gets judged on stan and stan alone and even when the FAI play a blinder and get Traps, the vitriol remains.

Bollox.

Just because they do one thing well, the litany of disaster they have been responsible for is to be ignored and swept under the carpet?

Are you actually going to address this question? I asked it in another thread too, and you have roundly ignored it.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

There are two phenomenon at play here. Deliebrate ignorance of the good job the FAI are doing at grass roots (more footballers than GAA players in all codes) and LoI level from the Ole's and a sheep mentality that criticise because thats what everyone else is doing. Its getting very, very boring.

ffs, so is your constant arse licking of the FAI.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Des, you need to actually articulate why you despise the FAI so much as its totally irrational.

I've explained my point in the past, search my posts if you want.

Anyway, here it is again, in case you missed it.

I am currently deconstructing the post.

It's a long one, and I'm kinda busy in work,

OhNoYouDidn't

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

You are an Eircom League fan and you actually like the FAI? Do you visit foot.ie much

I never said I liked the FAI, but the criticism they get is often unjustified and agenda driven. Like most Rovers fans foot.ie is boycotted.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- I'm not happy because John Delaney is still in charge of the FAI. After being promised a "world-class manager" in 2005, Steve Staunton was given a FOUR year contract for a job he was completely underqualified for, and will probably cost over £1.4m in compensation alone given that he only "managed" (for want of a better word) for 21 months.

Stan has been a well documented mistake. But the point of this thread is that the FAI is a great deal bigger than the senior side and as such, judging him on the performance of one aspect of his job is pure Ole-ism. If the growth in players continues, the LoI improves as it has (three of the four strikers in the Brazil squad were LoI products) and the infrastructural improvements contine at the pace they are, I will happily tolerate a second rate senior side.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- The FAI did not appoint Giovanni Trappatoni, don't forget that. The three man panel did. Remember Delaney saying he was distancing himself from the process a couple of months back? How many Football Associations on the planet don't even appoint their own managers?

Most. The FA did the same with Capello. In fact most senior managers in all industries are hired by expert panels.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- Don Givens was put in temporary charge of the Irish national team. The man with more enemies than hot dinners himself.

He was the U21 manager and its standard practice for that man to take interim charge. The real question is why he is the U21 manager.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- Delaney is aiming high this time around though, he says we're aiming for the playoffs. Call him realistic if you want but if you don't set your sights high then you'll only be disappointed.

Source?

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- Fans not allowed to voice their opinions at games with "Delaney Out" banners or posters....

Didn't agree with that, but try a Glazer out protest at Old Trafford. Again, standard practice and in all probabilty an operational decision of the matchday security.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- In Delaneys time in charge of the FAI, Dublin City, Limerick, Kilkenny and very nearly Shelbourne and Shamrock Rovers, have gone out of business. Progress indeed. Clubs are being fined for the most ridiculous things, every EL fan knows that. The licensing farce. The Genesis Report. Delaney has done nothing good for domestic soccer.

Rubbish. I am heavily involved in Rovers at a number of levels and to say the FAI run league is not a vast improvement is simply wrong. Dublin City was Menton, Kilkenny and Limerick just werent getting the punters in and Shels proves that the controls put in place to make clubs run their affairs right is working. It was neccesary to take the worst offenders and make an expample of them.

How was licencing a farce?

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

- He has given himself a 6 year contract.

Not technically true, but yes, it was too generous by the board of control.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

Well done on reading my full post ONYD, did you miss this part, or are you deliberately ignoring it, or are you just enamoured with the FAI because they let Rovers away with daylight robbery, downright murder and a litany of offences?.

Yes, taking our licence away and relegating us is 'letting Rovers away with". :rolleyes:

I have a thousand times more previous with the FAI than you.

I'm not standing up for the FAI, I am merely saying that when people like you criticise them for EVERYTHING including landing Trappatoni, when they are actually due criticism, it gets ignored.

You are either totally obsessed with this vendetta or clueless if you think the level and consistancy of criticism the FAI get is appropriate. Compare it to the treatment of the far worse run GAA!

Mad_Max

To give a fresh opinion on this and from someone who is involved with the running of a team, I personally don't think the FAI do a good job. Personal opinion!

Example: My team employs a full time paid coach, a very rare occurence in irish leagues and the only one in our league for sure. AFAIK we are the only club in line with one of the FAI directives on technical coaching etc blah blah.

They recently sent us a letter applauding us on this approach, and then asked for the coach to become a member of their coaching board or something of the sort. We would continue paying him BUT he would have to be made available for the FAI at anytime so they could ship him out to other clubs. BTW we pay for the coach and everything ourselves, fundraising, sponsorships etc

Needless to say we did not comply but I just feel they as an organisation they do a lot to make themselves look good. I've been involved with Shels, Stella Maris, Kevins et al at underage level and none of these clubs really recieved FAI help. iirc Joeys got the money for their lovely facilities from the lotto. could be wrong there it's been many years since I was there.

I recently heard john delaney spouting on about the facilities down at tullamore as an indication of how much good work they are doing around the land. I was recently down at the facilites and I must say top draw, BUT as I was told by a club member, they sold land to a developer who built the facilities akin to the Bohs deal.

Again just a personal opinion, I'm sure i'm somewhat biased from my frustrations over interactions with them and I don't deny that they do do some good work but for an organisation that makes the level of money they do I just expect a lot more.

MrJoeSoap

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Source?

"We've got Cyprus for the third time in a row but from our perspective, although we are the third seed in the group, we'll be going for the play-offs."

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=637907.html

I'll reply to the rest later, I'm getting ready for work at the moment.

MrJoeSoap

Mad_Max wrote: »

I recently heard john delaney spouting on about the facilities down at tullamore as an indication of how much good work they are doing around the land. I was recently down at the facilites and I must say top draw, BUT as I was told by a club member, they sold land to a developer who built the facilities akin to the Bohs deal.

Yep, to the local hospital iirc. I helped build the astro-turf in Tullamore, great facilities but not even nearly worth patting the FAI on the back for.

Mad_Max

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Yep, to the local hospital iirc. I helped build the astro-turf in Tullamore, great facilities but not even nearly worth patting the FAI on the back for.

Yep thats it alright. I played in their old facilities and by God they were bad Peamount is another example, really top drawer facilities that were built by fundraising and sponsorship and the minimal of help from the FAI.

leninbenjamin

ditpoker, anyone i know at the grass roots level will tell you that the developments that have happened in the past decade or so happened in SPITE of the FAI, and more particularly west of the shannon. the FAI were not lambasted over Stan alone, but rather it was a case of the Stangate highlighted everything wrong with the FAI.

Mad_Max

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Compare it to the treatment of the far worse run GAA!

I'm in no way educated about the runnings of the GAA and don't care to but from an outside perspective I have drove through a lot of small county towns and you nearly always see the lovely gaa club house's. Compared to the football grounds i've played in around the land. You get used to changing in the open

redspider

On the FAI and John Delaney, I think that there are still many problems, but I dont think its a case of '2 legs good, 4 legs bad', black and white, as in everything that the FAI do is bad or that everything that they do is good. They deserve some appluase but also some criticism.

There is some merit in what the OP says, they have helped the sport in this country. But also, they have held it back. To blame Shels woes on the FAI is naiveity though, and every time I hear someone say "the blazers this, the blazers that", I cringe as they probably have not been involved in a football club, running a sporting organisation or trying to develop something. There are more 'unwashed' opinions out there and people that think that they know everything but they dont have a clue - everyone has an opinion. Btw, it was Revenue Commissioners which let off Shamrock Rovers big time.

One thing is clear, the FAI's financial position has improved immensely under John Delaney's tenure, and that trend is likely to continue. On that metric, he is doing a good job. Mind you, people will complain about the ticket prices, the fact that you have to buy a series of tickets, etc. They dont ciomplain when that gets you access to the Brazil match though. Swings and roundabouts.

Could the FAI do more for the grassroots level? Yes.

Should the organisation be more democratic, more open to efficiency, etc? Yes.

Does football in this country need another Genesis Report? Yes, probably.

Is the FAI better than it was over 10 years ag (eg: 1994)? Yes.

Is it perfect? No, far from it.

Could it be a lot better? Yes.


But the FAI is the only one we've got at the moment. Rather than people giving out about it, they should get involved in soccer (apart from watching it on the box, giving out from their barstool, or at their work coffee dock) and seek to change from the inside, from the grassroots.

By the way, the FAI gets funding from the government, doesnt it? I wonder will the government reduce that amount by 1m to match O'Briens input, thus forcing Denis to effectively pay tax? Pigs can fly ..... Doncaster Rovers didnt ;-) (allegedly)

Redspider

Mad_Max

redspider wrote: »

By the way, the FAI gets funding from the government, doesnt it? I wonder will the government reduce that amount by 1m to match O'Briens input, thus forcing Denis to effectively pay tax?

Redspider for taoiseach! :D:D

gosplan

Go DIT poker!!!!

Needed to be said IMO. People say the FAI are unless in every department but the same people can only name international blunders when put to the question.

One thing I was extermly impressed this week was hearing about O'Brien's funding. The FAI knew ages ago and kept it quiet!

Personally I think a lot of the pressure on the FAI internationally stems form the massive upsurge in the media who all have column inches to fill.

The FAI did very little wrong in this appointment. They got a group of people, told them to take their time and find someone good and when they found one that woudl do they appointed him in a couple of weeks.

And it all gets called 'another FAI farce'. Fu*king brilliantly handled I'd call it. The team was managerless for the sum total of one whole firendly game. that's what - two coaching sessions behind?

The reality is that very very few people in this country are in a position to judge the FAI in it's entirety. Furthermore, I'd say that none of them are on this site.

Personally I'd love to do a comparison. Find all the other countries in Europe with a 4 million population, a couple of competing sports such as rugby and GAA, and see the state of their national football leagues and teams.

And as regards shels - that can be blamed on the stupidest business plan ever. Balancing your books based on unsecured future income.

zAbbo

gosplan wrote: »

Go DIT poker!!!!

Needed to be said IMO. People say the FAI are unless in every department but the same people can only name international blunders when put to the question.

Didn't read thread.

Mad_Max

Well just to take a country that has recently done one over on us, the czech republic aren't doing too badly (they have 10million population but lets not be pedantic ).

I do however think you are mistaking some of the arguments being made here. This is not entirely about international 'blunders'. Ok nobody will defend them over stauntan etc but sure thats done and done. My personal comments have been about their lack of action, but credit taking for improvments in local ball. As one poster said a lot of it has been done in spite of the FAI.

gosplan wrote: »

One thing I was extermly impressed this week was hearing about O'Brien's funding. The FAI knew ages ago and kept it quiet!

I'd very much like to think they would otherwise any potential manager's salary would be affected. Not to mention the backroom staff. They might well have commanded more had they known!

gosplan wrote: »

The reality is that very very few people in this country are in a position to judge the FAI in it's entirety. Furthermore, I'd say that none of them are on this site.

Of course not. But that's not to say people on this site do not know anything at all about the FAI. Like we've mentioned some of us have had extensive workings with the FAI and not always with the best of results.

To give another example I actually attended a coaching course run by themselves which was to cover two days. I done day one about 6 months ago and am still waiting on day 2!!!

gosplan

I think you guys are missing my point...and I had read the thread.

All I'm saying is that there's a common opinion that basically equates to 'FAI involvment = badly handled.'

As regards the salary thing. My point in this regard was that if the headlines 2 months ago had read - 'O'Brien promises millions to fund move for dream manager', then all hell would have broken lose, and no doubt poeple would have been moaning about how badly handled it was. Has anyone mentioned this? That the FAi kept a big secret secret for what I can remember as the first time. is that not improvement?

This, I feel, is a perfect example of how the FAI can't win.

That said, are they the perfect organisation? - of course not. But it's a tricky thing to do. Look at the Cork players strike, EOS's contract, the grief the FA got for Sven's increased contract and how they're blamed for just about everything that goes wrong in English football.

I would also say that if people are so wound up about it and convinced that the FAI are mucking every single thing up, then why not try to get a job with them? Clearly the capacity most people here have for economic, political and orgasinational thought would see them rise to the top quite quickly and fix all that is wrong with Irish football.

Mad_Max

Unfortunately it appears that the upper echelons of the FAI is a closed circle to a degree. Two generations of delaney at the helms!

aside from wikipedia

John Delaney, or Legoman as he is affectionately known as in Ireland, is the Gravedigger and current Chief Bagman of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI).

thebaz

Just read todays Evening herald, and its all over the back page and Front Page , how Delaney and the FAI have totally screwed up big time, by talking to Denis O'Brien while Stan was employed -- the appointment of Stan was a joke he had to go (he got nicely paid off , and was way out of his depth from the get go) --- they get it right by appointing Trapattoni , so credit where credit due , as a long suffering Irish fan I'm delighted with the new manager , and O'Brien's donation -- we soon might have a team again to be proud of , so thanks lads.

OhNoYouDidn't

thebaz wrote: »

Just read todays Evening herald, and its all over the back page and Front Page , how Delaney and the FAI have totally screwed up big time, by talking to Denis O'Brien while Stan was employed -- the appointment of Stan was a joke he had to go (he got nicely paid off , and was way out of his depth from the get go) --- they get it right by appointing Trapattoni , so credit where credit due , as a long suffering Irish fan I'm delighted with the new manager , and O'Brien's donation -- we soon might have a team again to be proud of , so thanks lads.

How did they screw up? This is the point of the thread.

O'Brien approached them when Stan was manager, they say thanks and will take a look at the offer if and when they need to. They remove Stan later anyway and after this discuss the offer at the subsequent board meeting at which point the FAI accept the offer.

It was kept secret for obvious commercial reasons, not part of a nefarious plot.

Again, if this is 'screwing up', keep screwing up John.

gosplan

AFAIK the initial contact was made after the Cyprus game. The day after that game the FAI advised that they were calling a meeting the next week. Everyone knew that the purpose of this was to get rid of stan.

bohsman

gosplan wrote: »

Needed to be said IMO. People say the FAI are unless in every department but the same people can only name international blunders when put to the question.

Says just how bad a job they are doing then, nobody knows enough/ cares enough about the national league that the FAI run to be able to be critical over that.