Trying to conceive/Planned parenthood/Assisted Reproduction Chat thread.

TomeeTipee

Do any of you get cramps a few days after ovulation? I've had cramps on and off 3 and 4 days post ovulation this month. I've never noticed this before. It seems too early for implantation, so just wondering if it is common? I'm feeling very positive this month so maybe I'm just reading too much into this.

Penny Dreadful

If ever there was a lesson in how narrow the window of opportunity is when you're at your fertile moment I learned it yesterday.
As posted I used the OPK yesterday morning and got a . No flashing, no equivocation, there it was. Thankfully my husband and I had done the deed late the night before so it wasn't a wasted opportunity.
Then out of interest I tested again when I got home last night and it was right back to a big fat O. To really hammer home the point I did it again this morning and once again it was a O.
So sometime between 06:30 on Monday and 06:30 on Tuesday my egg was released. Between 06:30 and 18:30 on Tuesday it was past its use by date:eek:. Thankfully I think we took advantage of the opportunity when it presented itself.
Its an awkward one really isnt it. You're peak fertile moment could happen when you're asleep and you don't even know you're missing it.

Lucuma

TomeeTipee wrote: »

Do any of you get cramps a few days after ovulation? .

Nope can't say I ever have

Penny Dreadful

TomeeTipee wrote: »

Do any of you get cramps a few days after ovulation? I've had cramps on and off 3 and 4 days post ovulation this month. I've never noticed this before. It seems too early for implantation, so just wondering if it is common? I'm feeling very positive this month so maybe I'm just reading too much into this.

I don't know that I have. I was so very aware of ovulating this month that I had to be careful not to over think every little twinge or tug. Sometimes I feel stuff and other times not. Whether or not its an ovulation cramp I don't know.

Lucuma

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

If ever there was a lesson in how narrow the window of opportunity is when you're at your fertile moment I learned it yesterday.
As posted I used the OPK yesterday morning and got a . No flashing, no equivocation, there it was. Thankfully my husband and I had done the deed late the night before so it wasn't a wasted opportunity.
Then out of interest I tested again when I got home last night and it was right back to a big fat O. To really hammer home the point I did it again this morning and once again it was a O.
So sometime between 06:30 on Monday and 06:30 on Tuesday my egg was released. Between 06:30 and 18:30 on Tuesday it was past its use by date:eek:. Thankfully I think we took advantage of the opportunity when it presented itself.
Its an awkward one really isnt it. You're peak fertile moment could happen when you're asleep and you don't even know you're missing it.

That's really interesting. Sounds like the OPK you got has unlimited tests in it? Will you have to buy a whole new set for next month or is it that fertility monitor machine thing?

Penny Dreadful

Lucuma wrote: »

That's really interesting. Sounds like the OPK you got has unlimited tests in it? Will you have to buy a whole new set for next month or is it that fertility monitor machine thing?

I bought one for €29.99 (splashed the cash this time just to get a handle on things) that came with 10 tests that you click into place with the holder. The holder is also the display screen.
You reuse the display holder until you get the face that isn't flashing. Once you get the face that isn't flashing the display holder stops working.
You can't buy test strips separately you have to purchase a whole new kit at €29.99 again. This is of course where they make their money.
You can buy the same product with more tests (up to 20 I think or one with 10 OPK and 1 pregnancy test) for around €40.00 which works out cheaper.
Also, the instruction leaflet tells you that if you've used up all 10 tests and still haven't gotten a then you should use a new pack of tests but continue to use the holder / display case from the first packet you used. This is makes sense really.

So now I am in the 2WW phase and trying so very hard not to picture the opening scense of Look Who's Talking taking place in my body while I sit here and type:o:D

Lucuma

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

You reuse the display holder until you get the face that isn't flashing. Once you get the face that isn't flashing the display holder stops working.

If the above is true, howcome you were able to see your big fat 0 as you called it yesterday evening and again this morning? Was it the case you saw nothing (i.e the screen stopped working) so you described that as big fat 0?

Penny Dreadful

Lucuma wrote: »

If the above is true, howcome you were able to see your big fat 0 as you called it yesterday evening and again this morning? Was it the case you saw nothing (i.e the screen stopped working) so you described that as big fat 0?

Because I opened a second box and used a new tester kit.

When the screen stops working the peak fertility smiley face stays put. It doesn't disappear. When you get a O or a flashing smiley face the icon disappears after 5 minutes and you've disconnected the stick you wee on/ soak in urine and you're ready to go with a new test the next time you wish to try.

barbiegirl

Remember Penny that the hope is to have his swimmers waiting on the egg, so if you do the deed every 48 hours, we normally do days 9, 11, 13 and 15/16 then as they live 3-5 days you should have the egg covered off. Harder I know when your cycles aren't regular but still even if she pips in your sleep his guys should hopefully be able to get the job done. :-).

Penny Dreadful

barbiegirl wrote: »

Remember Penny that the hope is to have his swimmers waiting on the egg, so if you do the deed every 48 hours, we normally do days 9, 11, 13 and 15/16 then as they live 3-5 days you should have the egg covered off. Harder I know when your cycles aren't regular but still even if she pips in your sleep his guys should hopefully be able to get the job done. :-).

Indeed:) If the egg did pip in my sleep (which it appears to have done Monday night/Tuesday morning) then because we had sex on Monday evening I'm hoping the sperm and egg are playing nicely together now.
It was quite annoying that the semen analysis test was booked for the very time I managed to discover I was ovulating this month.
Still thems the breaks, maybe we caught one on this cycle. The next two weeks will tell.

Neyite

Actually its slightly incorrect. OPK's detect the LH surge which occurs about 48 hrs before ovulation, they cant detect ovulation itself. So when they monitor went back to O it meant that your LH surge was no longer detected. But the LH is 48 hrs before ovulation.

Similarly, mittelsmertz pain is due to your follicles stretching, not the actual egg releasing. In my case I had mittlesmertz on the monday, tuesday, but ovulated 36 hrs later between 9.30pm on the thursday, through to early saturday morning. It was a TSI scanned cycle with clomid so the bloods and scans backed up this information (and have the child to prove it :P)

Penny Dreadful

Neyite wrote: »

Actually its slightly incorrect. OPK's detect the LH surge which occurs about 48 hrs before ovulation, they cant detect ovulation itself. So when they monitor went back to O it meant that your LH surge was no longer detected. But the LH is 48 hrs before ovulation.

Similarly, mittelsmertz pain is due to your follicles stretching, not the actual egg releasing. In my case I had mittlesmertz on the monday, tuesday, but ovulated 36 hrs later between 9.30pm on the thursday, through to early saturday morning. It was a TSI scanned cycle with clomid so the bloods and scans backed up this information (and have the child to prove it :P)

So when the face appears but it is flashing this means the LH is increasing and when it is a only, no flashing it means the LH is at it highest point?
So my LH was increasing from Thursday until it reached its peak on Tuesday morning? Then when we had sex on Monday night it means that the sperm is going to be there waiting for the egg that will actually be released tonight/tomorrow?
If this is the case then thats good too isn't it?
I did history in school instead of biology and did very well in it. Good thing too, this biology business (in relation to a woman's fertility) is bloomin' confusing and hard work to get straight in your head. :D

Penny Dreadful

Neyite wrote: »

Actually its slightly incorrect. OPK's detect the LH surge which occurs about 48 hrs before ovulation, they cant detect ovulation itself. So when they monitor went back to O it meant that your LH surge was no longer detected. But the LH is 48 hrs before ovulation.

Similarly, mittelsmertz pain is due to your follicles stretching, not the actual egg releasing. In my case I had mittlesmertz on the monday, tuesday, but ovulated 36 hrs later between 9.30pm on the thursday, through to early saturday morning. It was a TSI scanned cycle with clomid so the bloods and scans backed up this information (and have the child to prove it :P)

This sounds like a German WW II bomber or something doesn't it:D

You are the font of my new found wisdom. Thank you.

Lucuma

Neyite wrote: »

Actually its slightly incorrect. OPK's detect the LH surge which occurs about 48 hrs before ovulation, they cant detect ovulation itself. So when they monitor went back to O it meant that your LH surge was no longer detected. But the LH is 48 hrs before ovulation.

Similarly, mittelsmertz pain is due to your follicles stretching, not the actual egg releasing. In my case I had mittlesmertz on the monday, tuesday, but ovulated 36 hrs later between 9.30pm on the thursday, through to early saturday morning. It was a TSI scanned cycle with clomid so the bloods and scans backed up this information (and have the child to prove it :P)

Did you use opks on this monitored cycle Neyite? It would be great if someone had used opks with a monitored cycle so we could learn from their experience.
Just a thought, how can you be sure that Penny's opk works in that way i.e. that the full Smiley face detects the LH surge and not ovulation itself? Is it possible that opks have progressed in terms of technology and now they can read ovulation? Or that the Smiley face signifies the LH drop after the surge? Just wondering. Also my opks say LH surge occurs 36 hrs b4 ov, so does my Fertility Code book, but you say 48 hrs. That's a 12 hour diff. I don't know which one to go by (obligatory sex every 2nd day isn't working out for us so I really need to target it!)

Penny Dreadful

Lucuma wrote: »

Did you use opks on this monitored cycle Neyite? It would be great if someone had used opks with a monitored cycle so we could learn from their experience.
Just a thought, how can you be sure that Penny's opk works in that way i.e. that the full Smiley face detects the LH surge and not ovulation itself? Is it possible that opks have progressed in terms of technology and now they can read ovulation? Or that the Smiley face signifies the LH drop after the surge? Just wondering. Also my opks say LH surge occurs 36 hrs b4 ov, so does my Fertility Code book, but you say 48 hrs. That's a 12 hour diff. I don't know which one to go by (obligatory sex every 2nd day isn't working out for us so I really need to target it!)

http://uk.clearblue.com/clearblue-ovulation-test-range/clearblue-digital-ovulation-test-with-dual-hormone-indicator

This is the link to the tests I've used this month to detect my ovulation.
The only thing I will say that wasn't true for me was the reusable reader. It wasn't reusable but given that you have to buy a new kit to get more stips to put into the reader thats not an issue. It is possible that they meant reusable until you get a only rather than a O or a flashing .

It also detected an increase in my LH over 6 days not just 4 - 5 flashing and one only.
New tester / reader showed it was back to O last night and again this morning.

Neyite

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

So when the face appears but it is flashing this means the LH is increasing and when it is a only, no flashing it means the LH is at it highest point?
So my LH was increasing from Thursday until it reached its peak on Tuesday morning? Then when we had sex on Monday night it means that the sperm is going to be there waiting for the egg that will actually be released tonight/tomorrow?
If this is the case then thats good too isn't it?
I did history in school instead of biology and did very well in it. Good thing too, this biology business (in relation to a woman's fertility) is bloomin' confusing and hard work to get straight in your head. :D

I'm not really certain of the machine, as I've never used it, but by concentrating your efforts around the smiley or just after it works out very well for the SMEP type (sperm meets egg plan) of method.

Its better that sperm is waiting for the egg, and can last up to 5 days. So, when you got your smiley and got to work, it meant that the swimmers were already in waiting for the egg so its excellent timing.

Lucuma wrote: »

Did you use opks on this monitored cycle Neyite? It would be great if someone had used opks with a monitored cycle so we could learn from their experience.
Just a thought, how can you be sure that Penny's opk works in that way i.e. that the full Smiley face detects the LH surge and not ovulation itself? Is it possible that opks have progressed in terms of technology and now they can read ovulation? Or that the Smiley face signifies the LH drop after the surge? Just wondering. Also my opks say LH surge occurs 36 hrs b4 ov, so does my Fertility Code book, but you say 48 hrs. That's a 12 hour diff. I don't know which one to go by (obligatory sex every 2nd day isn't working out for us so I really need to target it!)

I did use OPks. I had pain on the Sunday, and that was (I think) day 9 or so, but no positive OPK and was annoyed because the clinic was shut (I thought I was ovulating when I got the pain you see) and couldn't talk to anyone. My appointment was on the Wed morning for the transvag scan. I had given up on the cycle by then, convinced I'd missed the boat, but on the screen I saw two mature follicles and one immature, so the nurse explained that the eggs were still inside. The pain is from the follicle stretching. That night I took the trigger shot which forces ovulation 36 hrs later, landing the key times between Thursday morning @9.30am to Friday night @ 9.30pm. We were told to do the deed once before ovulation and once after. I got my positive OPK on either Tuesday or Wed, but by Friday which was day 14, and day of ovulation, the OPK was negative. That was the cycle we conceived twins, though we lost one at 8 weeks, the other went to term and is currently at creche.

In answer to your second point about the monitor, I dont have personal experience of the monitor, but its my understanding that currently the way of checking for ovulation is a blood test to test the level of progesterone post-ovulation, or transvaginal scans to check visually for mature follicles, just before ovulation. I dont think there is a hormone for ovulation that can be tested in urine, or if there is, I haven't came across home testing kits for it. I'd imagine that such a test would be pretty useless as it narrows your window to 12 hours (or less if you ovulate a few hours before you actually tested) when ideally knowing that you are due to OV in the next 36 hrs gives you time to get organised, plan, and have the swimmers waiting for the egg.

Thirdly, you might well be correct about the 36 hrs. Either way, I'd go with the earlier time of 36 rather than 48 as the sperm survives days and will be waiting anyway.

I'll see if I can link to the posts I wrote about that monitored cycle, as I'm sure they'd be pretty more detailed than my patchy memory at the moment!

Neyite

Here are some posts I found. But its really worth reading through the thread from the beginning. There were a few of us long termers around that time in 2011 who pooled a lot of really useful information.

Re: Mittelsmertz
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73725750&postcount=2192

TSI with Clomid Explanation
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73771823&postcount=2218

CD12 on lucky cycle
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73871323&postcount=2296

CD 13
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73885913&postcount=2304

CD27
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74141251&postcount=2423

CD28
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74171588&postcount=2441

Lucuma

Thanks Neyite you're a star. I read the thread from the beginning about a year ago, I didn't know one end of an opk from the other back then though, didn't know what ewcm was etc.....I need to read it from the start again!

From your description of trigger shots etc if we do go down the assisted route that doesn't sound like an option for us as that kind of pressure on my husband.......that's like the pressure we have now x 100 ! Even if it wasn't a sperm issue might have to be straight to the test tube/petri dish for us I'd say! :-)

Penny, aren't you glad now u bought the opks this month....otherwise when they tell you next month that your bloods show you didn't ovulate you would have been all freaked out whereas now you know they just took the day 21 bloods a week too early!

Lucyfur

You don't need to tell your husband when you're injecting. You just need to tell him that you're horny. Now. No, not later, now ;)

Penny Dreadful

Lucyfur wrote: »

You don't need to tell your husband when you're injecting. You just need to tell him that you're horny. Now. No, not later, now ;)

This ^^^ times a thousand.

I sent my hubby a text yesterday morning when I was at work to say we really should have sex again that evening so as to make the most of the ovulation surge. It was quite blunt I suppose.
Then last night after I had tested again and got a O I mentioned this to him when we were eating dinner. He said that the manner in which I had delivered the "lets have sex" message was lacking in romance and sex appeal and that it would be nicer to be wooed a little.

bobskii

On the subject of injecting,Did you find it tough to inject yourself?

Neyite

bobskii wrote: »

On the subject of injecting,Did you find it tough to inject yourself?

I couldn't do it. The nurse did it the first cycle, showing us how to do it, the second injection, himself had to do it for me. It wasn't too sore or anything, I just don't particularly like needles.

Lucuma

TomeeTipee wrote: »

My OH was due to go to the Rotunda & pay €30 but we are also being referred to Hari & they won't accept the normal Rotunda test, so now we have to do the full, expensive Hari test instead!

Was looking on the Cork Fertility Clinic website today (actually alot of useful information on there) and they quoted these prices for semen analysis:

Semen Analysis (inc. preparation) €125
Repeat Semen Analysis €75


Isn't that so much fairer, to charge a reduced rate for the second test not charging 120 and then 120 again for the repeat test like the Hari have done to us!

Lucuma

Neyite wrote: »

Thirdly, you might well be correct about the 36 hrs. Either way, I'd go with the earlier time of 36 rather than 48 as the sperm survives days and will be waiting anyway.

According to Cork Fertility Clinic website:

Ovulation tests can indicate when ovulation occurs by detecting the "LH surge" described earlier. Ovulation usually occurs in the 24 - 48 hours after this increase in hormone level.

No way of knowing exactly when it happens then unless we have a monitored cycle.

Penny Dreadful

Lucuma wrote: »

Was looking on the Cork Fertility Clinic website today (actually alot of useful information on there) and they quoted these prices for semen analysis:

Semen Analysis (inc. preparation) €125
Repeat Semen Analysis €75


Isn't that so much fairer, to charge a reduced rate for the second test not charging 120 and then 120 again for the repeat test like the Hari have done to us!

Bold I know but I have to admit I'm wondering what they include in the "preparation"

Lucuma

Have my usual pre-menstrual week of sore boobs and not a trace of a 2nd line on the cheapie preg tests every morning.

OH's sperm analysis results are out now this week, still haven't heard back.

I have started looking up the next steps if his results are bad again. I contacted a fertility clinic and a nurse kindly replied to me she said if ''male factor'' as she called it, is an issue the the treatment of choice is IVF with ICSI. Read up on what that is. Oh be the lord jaysis................

This might sound like a weird question, (grappling for positives here) but from the description of it they very carefully select a good sperm and inject it into the egg on a petri dish or whatever......just wondering, does this mean you can select the gender? Just occurred to me. That would be a major plus.

Penny Dreadful

Lucuma wrote: »

Have my usual pre-menstrual week of sore boobs and not a trace of a 2nd line on the cheapie preg tests every morning.

OH's sperm analysis results are out now this week, still haven't heard back.

I have started looking up the next steps if his results are bad again. I contacted a fertility clinic and a nurse kindly replied to me she said if ''male factor'' as she called it, is an issue the the treatment of choice is IVF with ICSI. Read up on what that is. Oh be the lord jaysis................

This might sound like a weird question, (grappling for positives here) but from the description of it they very carefully select a good sperm and inject it into the egg on a petri dish or whatever......just wondering, does this mean you can select the gender? Just occurred to me. That would be a major plus.

The healtiest sperm is picked so as to give the fertilised egg its best chance when placed.

With regard to selecting the gener thats a non runner. If there is a serious illness that affects one particular gender only then they may select X or Y but otherwise no.

In terms of assisted reproduction gender selection is actually one of the easiest things to do but given that it is rife with ethical concerns and uncertainties (e.g. certain cultures perferring boys over girls) as to the health and safety of a particular gendered baby it is illegal.

Lucuma

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

The healtiest sperm is picked so as to give the fertilised egg its best chance when placed.

With regard to selecting the gener thats a non runner. If there is a serious illness that affects one particular gender only then they may select X or Y but otherwise no.

In terms of assisted reproduction gender selection is actually one of the easiest things to do but given that it is rife with ethical concerns and uncertainties (e.g. certain cultures perferring boys over girls) as to the health and safety of a particular gendered baby it is illegal.

Ah. Thanks Penny. Funny thing is if you go in and get a sperm donation baby (I think) you can pick the gender, eye colour, personality characteristics etc so it's legal there but not legal with IVF. Strange!

Sittingpretty

Lucuma wrote: »

Ah. Thanks Penny. Funny thing is if you go in and get a sperm donation baby (I think) you can pick the gender, eye colour, personality characteristics etc so it's legal there but not legal with IVF. Strange!

Why would you want to though? A baby is a baby is a baby regardless of gender or appearance.

I can understand people who use donor sperm wanting to match their children to their own appearance but otherwise I'm not sure it's really desirable to be able to cherry pic your children's characteristics.

Penny Dreadful

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Why would you want to though? A baby is a baby is a baby regardless of gender or appearance.

I can understand people who use donor sperm wanting to match their children to their own appearance but otherwise I'm not sure it's really desirable to be able to cherry pic your children's characteristics.[/QUOTE]

Which is one of the reasons its not allowed. Then there are also the inheritance issues: Farmer Joe will not tolerate the idea of Molly or any of his 7 daughters inheriting the farm and so when he and his wife decide to have another baby they go the assisted route and create the perfect mini farmer boy child.
Reasons such as this along with the carrying on a family name, I don't like boys I only want girls, etc are among the multitude of reasons why gender selection is illegal in almost all cases.
Even in terms of inherited diseases you can do a lot to prevent them when going down the assisted route. Take Huntington's Disease for example.
The gene that causes this disease to develop has been identified and isolated and so if a couple who are carrying the genes (one or both) decide to have a baby they can ensure that their child does not have to get it by having assistance. The gene carrying HD is removed and replaced with another that doesn't carry it, fertilised egg implanted and on you go.
The gender still isn't selected.

In cases such as Huntington's which is a dreadful dreadful disease I fully support an intervention but would have many ethical concerns about it for making sure you're baby has blue eyes over green cause ya like them and other such unimportant things.