Trying to conceive/Planned parenthood/Assisted Reproduction Chat thread.

bobskii

Neyite wrote: »

I couldn't do it. The nurse did it the first cycle, showing us how to do it, the second injection, himself had to do it for me. It wasn't too sore or anything, I just don't particularly like needles.

Needles don't bother me at all,however im never gonna be able to stick one in myself!asked the hubby he said yep no problem,then i said are you sure your gonna be able to pierce my skin with a needle,he nearly threw up so i dunno what i'm gonna do,i'll figure it out when the time comes!:D

Lucuma

bobskii wrote: »

Needles don't bother me at all,however im never gonna be able to stick one in myself!asked the hubby he said yep no problem,then i said are you sure your gonna be able to pierce my skin with a needle,he nearly threw up so i dunno what i'm gonna do,i'll figure it out when the time comes!:D

I found stuff on another forum about this today (VHI forum on fertility clinics if you want to google). A few women were saying they numb the area completely with ice to the point where they actually don't feel the needle going in. They mentioned injecting in their stomach area. One woman was saying you can use real ice or one of those 'heat/cool' pouch things you can buy in the chemist for injuries. She said it got even colder than normal ice (I suppose you keep it in the freezer) and numb the area til you can't feel it, then jab the needle in asap.

Sounds like the only way to make it bearable I'd say, considering you have to do it every day for a few weeks is it?

Lucuma

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Why would you want to though? A baby is a baby is a baby regardless of gender or appearance.

I can understand people who use donor sperm wanting to match their children to their own appearance but otherwise I'm not sure it's really desirable to be able to cherry pic your children's characteristics.

It was a lesbian colleague of mine told me that when she and her partner were going to get the donor sperm they picked out that they wanted a child that looked like them, with similar characteristics (like sporty etc). And I think she told me they selected the gender. I'm sure you can specify the gender in certain fertility clinics (maybe illegal in Ireland but outside Ireland...?) for the right price....I mean do you think Elton John & David Furnish didn't specify they wanted a boy? I'd say they definitely did.

Lucyfur

The injection is once a month and you'll know what day you have to give it on as soon as you know day 1 of your cycle so you can pop into your nurse if you don't like the thoughts of doing it yourself. Or maybe a pharmacist could do it? They do flu shots so maybe....

Sittingpretty

Lucuma wrote: »

It was a lesbian colleague of mine told me that when she and her partner were going to get the donor sperm they picked out that they wanted a child that looked like them, with similar characteristics (like sporty etc). And I think she told me they selected the gender. I'm sure you can specify the gender in certain fertility clinics (maybe illegal in Ireland but outside Ireland...?) for the right price....I mean do you think Elton John & David Furnish didn't specify they wanted a boy? I'd say they definitely did.

I'm sure it's possible and I'm sure it happens but I'd be of the opinion that most couples who find themselves having to consider fertility treatment at all would be happy with a baby of either gender. I can't see them being picky or wanting to choose?

Maybe I'm being naive, I don't know. I just find that level of "ordering" for want of a better word a little despairing.

Lucuma

Lucyfur wrote: »

The injection is once a month and you'll know what day you have to give it on as soon as you know day 1 of your cycle so you can pop into your nurse if you don't like the thoughts of doing it yourself. Or maybe a pharmacist could do it? They do flu shots so maybe....

Bobskii is going for IVF though, my understanding of that is daily injections for weeks? Love if someone told me I'm wrong though!

broody_kitten

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I'm sure it's possible and I'm sure it happens but I'd be of the opinion that most couples who find themselves having to consider fertility treatment at all would be happy with a baby of either gender. I can't see them being picky or wanting to choose?

Maybe I'm being naive, I don't know. I just find that level of "ordering" for want of a better word a little despairing.

Yup, this conversation is depressing as hell. Surely everyone on this board would be happy with a baby, any baby?

Lucuma

broody_kitten wrote: »

Yup, this conversation is depressing as hell. Surely everyone on this board would be happy with a baby, any baby?

Surely!

Lucuma

Had my day 21 bloods taken today. I usually do all medical stuff in Ireland (no language barrier, it's where I have my health insurance etc) but for this I can't avoid getting it done in the country we work in - coz unfortunately day 3 and day 21 don't fall nicely at the weekend (and you'd be hard pressed to find a doc that takes bloods at the weekend anyway). So I went to the free ex-pat doctor (free if you have an EHIC card - which anyone can order from the HSE). Unfortunately being free she was also useless......she looked kind of scared when I told her what I needed done, and tried to fob me off saying I should go to a fertility clinic for it. I was like,No - it's a prerequisite to an appointment with the clinic you need to have these tests done before! Eventually she agreed to do the test but I had to draw a typical cycle on a piece of paper for her - day 1 to 28, with a circle around 3 and around 21 and explain the purpose of taking the blood samples, eventually she want ''Ah.....ok'' and she ticked Progesterone, Oestrogen, LH + FSH as the things that the blood should be tested for. Due to my knowledge picked up on boards.ie (!!) I'm fairly confident this is correct? Hope so!

Going to a decent doctor here you need local health insurance which we currently don't have, and trying to decide if we should get - on the one hand we may have to the IVF here (if we need IVF) so local health insurance would be useful but on the other hand, I presume it would be seen as a ''pre-existing condition'' at this stage and they might refuse to cover it making local health insurance pointless (whereas it won't be seen as that with our long-standing policies in ireland as we only found out about it in the last 6 months)

Toto Wolfcastle

bobskii wrote: »

Needles don't bother me at all,however im never gonna be able to stick one in myself!asked the hubby he said yep no problem,then i said are you sure your gonna be able to pierce my skin with a needle,he nearly threw up so i dunno what i'm gonna do,i'll figure it out when the time comes!:D

The injections don't hurt the vast majority of the time. Anytime I injected myself it didn't hurt at all and anytime it hurt when I was injected it was just a bad angle. It becomes second nature. My husband hates needles and he was grand doing it.

bobskii

I'd love if someone told you,you were wrong about the daily injection's too Lucuma:D

Thanks for the info i'll go have a look at that forum later on!!
Found out this morning if i want my file to move clinic's i have to apply in writing to the hari,Nothing's straight forward in this tryin to conceive business!!

Lucyfur

Lucuma wrote: »

Bobskii is going for IVF though, my understanding of that is daily injections for weeks? Love if someone told me I'm wrong though!

Oh sorry, I thought it was a trigger shot with clomid, my bad!

bobskii

unfortnately not Lucyfur!Although when i was on clomid i didn't have to inject wonder why that was.

Lucuma

Sorry about this but had to come here and vent ....

Last week I rang a local health insurance provider in the european country we're working in. After a detailed discussion I established that their most basic, cheapest health insurance (80 euro each per month) covers us for up to 6 free IUI and/or 3 IVF.

She said it being seen as a ''pre-existing condition'' won't come into it.

Then this morning I rang VHI, who I've been a customer of for years. I have a high level of cover with them Family Plan Plus level 2. After eventually getting through to the right department, giving my details etc I asked what my policy covers me for in terms of fertility treatments? She hesitated and said ''Am, we actually don't cover anything for fertility treatments i'm afraid''.

I was in shock ............... !!!!! After a few more questions she said even the blood tests I had done at the doctors (a pre-pregnancy check I had done for STIs, iron levels, immunity to Rubella etc etc) which cost over a hundred euro won't even be covered because they only cover ''blood tests that are done by a hospital, not by a GP''. Despite the fact the GP sent them off to the lab in the hospital to be tested, she said that doesn't matter unless it's a hospital receipt as opposed to a GP receipt, it's not covered.

Haven't got my hubby to check with Aviva whether his SA will be covered or not but based on what I heard today they're basically saying you're on your own, you get zero zilch towards this.

I know I wouldn't be so angry if it wasn't what I heard is covered locally here in Europe but how are Irish health insurance companies getting away with this?!

Neyite

Lucuma, none of them cover it. (well, Quinn/Liberty used to, not sure if they still do, but the rest dont) They cover exploratory gynae procedures that are not related to TTC - eg, endocrine issues, like determining if you have pcos or whatever. Semen analysis is not covered.

We paid for the lot privately despite having VHI.

Penny Dreadful

Neyite wrote: »

Lucuma, none of them cover it. (well, Quinn/Liberty used to, not sure if they still do, but the rest dont) They cover exploratory gynae procedures that are not related to TTC - eg, endocrine issues, like determining if you have pcos or whatever. Semen analysis is not covered.

We paid for the lot privately despite having VHI.

Laya (who I am covered with) do cover you for fertility treatments on their higher cost packages:
http://www.layahealthcare.ie/foremployers/companycaresuite/infertilitytreatment/

I'm paying €106 + some small change per month for the Health Manager cover. Its quite expensive and it still doesn't cover their infertility treatments.
I think they are the only company in Ireland doing anything towards infertility treatments at all.

Sittingpretty

Having worked for years in a hospital I know a bit about ins cover.

Most companies don't cover any treatment for fertility, in the same way they don't cover cosmetic procedures. They see it as a choice and not a medical necessity. It doesn't seem fair but they are more or less across the board with this.

Similarly, they don't provide cover for vasectomy your tube tying either.

Lucuma

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Having worked for years in a hospital I know a bit about ins cover.

Most companies don't cover any treatment for fertility, in the same way they don't cover cosmetic procedures. They see it as a choice and not a medical necessity. It doesn't seem fair but they are more or less across the board with this.

Similarly, they don't provide cover for vasectomy your tube tying either.

It seems wrong to classify it as a choice considering the future of the human race depends on it! (reproduction I mean). It's hardly in the same bracket as cosmetic surgery. Pity the EU doesn't impose a sanction on them for excluding it.

MurdyWurdy

In New Zealand if you are eligible you get two rounds of IVF covered by the public health system, never mind by your health insurance.

I would be happy to see my taxes be used in this way here. Calling it a choice is a bit simplistic!

Penny Dreadful

Lucuma wrote: »

It seems wrong to classify it as a choice considering the future of the human race depends on it! (reproduction I mean). It's hardly in the same bracket as cosmetic surgery. Pity the EU doesn't impose a sanction on them for excluding it.

The thing is that there are many people who are reproducing without any financial assistance and so the future of the human race isn't in doubt.
To some it is in the same bracket as cosmetic surgery. Some people have their nose reduced/reshaped, their breasts altered, their ears pinned back (all procedures falling under the heading of cosmetic surgery) because of the psychological impact it has on their health. Some people (like many of us on this forum) have a devestating psychological fall out from an inability to concieve without assistance.

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

In New Zealand if you are eligible you get two rounds of IVF covered by the public health system, never mind by your health insurance.

I would be happy to see my taxes be used in this way here. Calling it a choice is a bit simplistic!

Bearing in mind I'm with all the rest of you in wanting a baby I'm still going to say that I can see why a government or insurance company doesn't cover it. There are many many things in the realm of healthcare that require money and many people would be of the opinion that it is better to spend money on curing an illness or life threatening disease before they'd spend it on assisted reproduction.
In the UK if you are under 40 the NHS pays for 3 (IIRC) attempts at IVF after that you're on your own.
The Irish healtcare system simply couldn't cope with demands like that being placed on it.

MurdyWurdy

I should have clarified I don't have fertility issues and am not ttc so it's unlikely it would be something that I, personally would need to avail of (although you never know what would happen when we try for baby number 2). I still see the benefit in providing a certain number of cycles for couples under 40 with fertility issues.

Penny Dreadful

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

I should have clarified I don't have fertility issues and am not ttc so it's unlikely it would be something that I, personally would need to avail of (although you never know what would happen when we try for baby number 2). I still see the benefit in providing a certain number of cycles for couples under 40 with fertility issues.

Just out of interest what would (if you were in charge making such a decision) would make you decide that you'd provide assisted reproduction on the public system?

MurdyWurdy

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Just out of interest what would (if you were in charge making such a decision) would make you decide that you'd provide assisted reproduction on the public system?

I'm not sure what would make me decide from a logical point of view, I just feel that fertility or lack thereof is not a choice, and it is a medical issue. We have the wherewithal to overcome these issues (a lot of the time, but not always, I know) and to me, it is a benefit to society to provide a certain number of cycles to people on the public health system.

I was lucky, we didn't have any issues but I know how infertility can affect a person's wellbeing. It just seems a bit sad that if you don't have the money or a way to get it, you're stuck. Especially, when countries with similar systems do provide it.

Yes, the health service is stretched but you can make that argument for a lot of issues.

Penny Dreadful

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

I'm not sure what would make me decide from a logical point of view, I just feel that fertility or lack thereof is not a choice, and it is a medical issue. We have the wherewithal to overcome these issues (a lot of the time, but not always, I know) and to me, it is a benefit to society to provide a certain number of cycles to people on the public health system.

I was lucky, we didn't have any issues but I know how infertility can affect a person's wellbeing. It just seems a bit sad that if you don't have the money or a way to get it, you're stuck. Especially, when countries with similar systems do provide it.

Yes, the health service is stretched but you can make that argument for a lot of issues.

Where you get into difficulty with bringing in something like fertility treatments on a public system is getting a public that is sick to the back teeth with waiting lists for physiotherapy, blood pressure monitors, spinal surgery, hip replacements, etc, etcto accept it.
There is such a small chance (and I hate to say or even admit it to myself) of a spend on IVF having a positive outcome and in comparison to the same amount of money being spent on 3 hip replacements - a procedure with a huge success rate) that the public will see more bang for their buck with the latter.
Infertility has a massive impact on the mental health and well being of any couple I'm not for a single second saying it doesn't but I think it is a harder sell as a medical issue than we'd like to accept.
I do think it is something that health insurance companies should consider covering. I signed up to my policy knowing that it didn't cover fertility treatments so I can't really complain about that.

TomeeTipee

Totally confused this month!! Yesterday, 8 days after ovulation (based on OPKs and temperature shift) I started what I thought was light spotting. I've never experienced this before so soon after ovulation and started thinking that maybe it was an implantation bleed. However, the 'spotting' has gotten heavier and now I'm wondering if it is my period. Its lighter than my normal period, but heavier than the sort of spotting that seems to be associated with implantation bleeding.

My temperature was still high-ish this morning but I didn't sleep well last night so I can't read too much into that. I'll have to see how my temperature is tomorrow and see how the bleeding progresses. I wish I knew one way or another!! Still too early to test I think!

Lucuma

Well I was clearly naive, I never knew that IVF and IUI are not covered for irish couples regardless of whether they have health insurance or are on the public system (with the exception of those on the higher up Leya policy getting 1000 in total towards treatments). Shocking. I read a post in another thread of a woman who has been told they need intervention, and as they can't afford it that's it for them, very sad :-(

In extreme cases, people should consider emigrating out of Ireland. It seems our neighbours either give people a free go, or health insurance covers several goes regardless of pre-existing conditions and with no waiting times for eligibility. I know that's overly simplistic as a lot of people can't just up sticks and leave but maybe for some it could be an option.

One thing that strikes me about the irish public system then, if your issues are female factor like pcos, endo etc there's help available on the public system but if your issues are male factor as a third of cases are, it's good luck see ya, get the money from somewhere or else tough luck.

Lucyfur

SIMS do a payment plan. I don't know if that's of any help to you.

Lucuma

Just spotted something actually, in one of the links that Neyite put in the ''links and resources'' - you can claim back tax on any money you spend on fertility treatments using the usual Med 1 form. At least that's something anyway, you get 20 percent of all your costs back.

Penny Dreadful

The importance of knowing your cycles!!
As stated in previous posts a few pages I back I used OPKs this past cycle and managed to successfully track my cycle this month, pin pointed when I ovulated, etc. This turned out to be a week -10 days behind when the apps that I had been using had predicted.
Today I received reminders from two of the three that I've been using that my period is between 2 days and 8 days late. If I didn't know what I know thanks to the OPK I'd have my hopes up about being late and be reading every little twinge and ache as my body being pregnant.
Its such a relief to know that thats not the case.........for this week.
Granted next week I'll probably be a ball of nerves.:o

Lucuma

The expat doctor hadn't a bulls notion how to interpret my day 21 results but I've looked it up online now and verified on several different websites my result is bad :-(

14.7 nmol/l

(according to opks I ov'd approx 7 days b4 this 21 day test)

From what I can tell from online this should be 30 or more and means either I didn't ovulate (despite opk to the contrary) or I did ov but my corpus luteum might not be secreting enough progesterone so I could have difficulty sustaining pregnancy.
In tears on the bus back to work and don't want to back in and face the rest of the day :-(