Waterford Turning into a ghost town...

trishw78

and I don't mean the ghosts haunting the quay.

http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story/?trs=cwqlidqlgb&cat=news

Waterford City centre is depressing. Is it any wonder people go further afield to shop. There's at least 2 bars and 4 shops lying idle from the quay to Micheal St. I just can't put it into words. Thank God Tom Grace has the balls to say it.

Then NIMBY's would want a good shake and told to cop-on.

Jor

I think it's a bit flattering of the N&S to say the had an "investigation" into the number of vacant shops in the city centre. Anyone can see how bad things are. Everyone on the Waterford board.ie site has been talking about how bad the situation is for ages and what needs doing to help fix it.
It is just not being done.

Only last week in the Waterford People, they said that after finally getting agreement with CIE about the right-of-way dispute for the North Wharf, the developers are thinking of pulling out.

The Ardree Hotel is still rotting away.

THE Newgate Centre(Still hate the name) debacle is still trundling on.

Marks & Spencer do not want to put their new shops in city/town centres.

We may as well do Twin Towns with New Orleans.

Sully

I blame the council and those in charge. They just dont seem to care. Like, with all the reports and all the problems they just sit on their hands and dont address the issue properly.

RxQueen

you cant just blame the council or whoever, they cant force people to put there shops into the buildings.

stick-dan

Maybe just maybe the people on this board wanting to see some new development should take the initiative, become entrepreneurs, seize the opportunity and set up businesses.

shockwave

The city is starting to look like it did in the 80's. Closed shops, derelict buildings.
The place is a shambles. The people of this city should be marching down on city hall and get those lazy bastards to get their bloody fingers out and do something about it :mad:

ec18

shockwave wrote: »

The city is starting to look like it did in the 80's. Closed shops, derelict buildings.
The place is a shambles. The people of this city should be marching down on city hall and get those lazy bastards to get their bloody fingers out and do something about it :mad:

most people who have the inclination to that have left this ghost city....theres F -all to do here

Mr Ed

Have to agree here, Waterford City is in a sorry state at the moment. Maybe we're focusing on it too much as othe rplaces such as Kilkenny have new developments springing up a lot quicker. We'll have the new sc across the river in south kk too before long.

We really do need a new major development soon in the city centre to bring some life back into it.

It's very disappointing though

Sully

emo!! wrote: »

you cant just blame the council or whoever, they cant force people to put there shops into the buildings.

From reading the N&S, a lot of the problems lie with the council. They have strict rules regarding what can go where, which is turning away a fair few businesses. The same with regards to Brendan McCann - people don't want to waste thousands of euros on planning in Waterford as Brendan is a law onto himself and is going to extreme lengths to decide what goes where, and what it looks like etc.

stick-dan wrote: »

Maybe just maybe the people on this board wanting to see some new development should take the initiative, become entrepreneurs, seize the opportunity and set up businesses.

Not everyone has it in them but those who can, either find its to expensive or there not permitted to do so by the council.

BBM77

It is all about pull lads. The city centre has to have more stuff that will pull people in. Nothing is going to change until the Newgate Centre starts being built. With the confidence that there is going to be a major shopping attraction in the city centre other investments will then be made. Retail has been used as a catalyst to redevelop run down centres in many cities and it will work here if the planning permission is given. The city centre is in a stalemate at the moment and we have Brendan McCann, Waterford Alliance for Sustainable Inner City Development, Waterford Council of Trade Unions, Dept of Environment & Local Government, Patrick Street and Stephens Street Traders Group and Noel McDonagh to thank for it. The Newgate Centre is stuck in planning and so other investors are not moving until they find out what happens.

I do think that if the Newgate Centre gets the go-ahead and with the Viking Triangle and the government quarter the city centre will become very strong. We will just have to wait and see what next month’s decision by An Bord Pleanala will be.

Cabaal

Waterford dies a death every evening at 5.30 in the middle of town, dispite the place apparently having a big population there's nothing to attract people into the center, these includes shops and the extremely poor selection of cafe's etc

its some joke,

mayordenis

this is all pretty hard to read lads, because i close my eyes to it, love the place and love the people and all, but yea it is a disaster in the centre of town and quite frankly i avoid it where possible, especially after 6 or so everything is closed the nice bars and nice cafes and casual resteraunts at an absolute premium in the city centre.

mad man

The council has a strategy that would work and would be well on the way to being implemented if it wasn't for Brendan McCann and that is the nub of the issue.

The council want to protect the City centre bty restricting comparison retail (clothing stores) to the centre and white goods and DIY stores to the outskirts..That will draw in the numbers that will allow smaller business to thrive.However if Newgate doesn't go ahead the council will have no option but to let the city centre die so to speak because they will be under pressure to allow the comparison retail in the outskirts so they can get the rates to provide services. There is a **** load of business banging down Waterford's door but they're being held up by ceaseless objections.

Also it is not the big business that is being hurt by the objectors it is the small independent retailers and businesses.Anyone who has bought a house will know it is probably the most stressful thing you will do.The stress is probably ten fold for starting a business.Bear in mind if you want to open a café and want to open a unit in town it is common knowledge now that it will come under the scrutiny of Brendan McCann.If you need to put up a security shutter or change a door/window and he doesn't approve then an objection will be lodged.Or if he thinks their will be odours that will effect residents in other words something that is none of his business.Why would you put yourself through the extra stress and no cash flow while your waiting for a decision that could take a year from An Board Pleanala.You will just set up somewhere where you don't have to go through this.This is the reasom there is so much empty units in the city.The people behind Newgate have the financial staying power to weather An Bord Pleanala.The little guy doesn't.

Freddie59

shockwave wrote: »

The city is starting to look like it did in the 80's. Closed shops, derelict buildings.
The place is a shambles. The people of this city should be marching down on city hall and get those lazy bastards to get their bloody fingers out and do something about it :mad:

Eh - hello? Brendan McCann? Objections to KRM deleopment, and now - wait for it - objection to the redevelopment of Waterford Shopping Centre - (jsut up the road from his employers which have carried out MAJOR building works in the last several years.

He has objected to NONE of the WIT developments (thankfully) and yet objects to something 500 yards up the road. I'm all for the planning process, but also for continuity - something sadly lacking in this man's case.

These objections are stifling the City's development.:mad:

ec18

look hes a pest....he seems to have this notion that he has a god given right to be the social consicence of waterford....when the majority of people think he's a........one word come to mind but I won't type it.

Sully

Freddie59 wrote: »

Eh - hello? Brendan McCann? Objections to KRM deleopment, and now - wait for it - objection to the redevelopment of Waterford Shopping Centre - (jsut up the road from his employers which have carried out MAJOR building works in the last several years.

Didn't they get permission regardless? Anyway, you think the council would do something about Brendan rather then letting him rule the place.

He has objected to NONE of the WIT developments (thankfully) and yet objects to something 500 yards up the road. I'm all for the planning process, but also for continuity - something sadly lacking in this man's case.

These objections are stifling the City's development.:mad:

If he objected to something in WIT, it probably would not be worth having the job!

With regards to the article in the News & Star - I think its slightly misleading. A lot of those stores have new owners but simply cant get permission. Its not because nobody wants to buy them, a lot of them have been purchased but are messed around by planning regulations and delays. Just look at River Island! The City Square units are a tad bit small for anything decent to go in, but most of them fill up quickly anyway.

JohnC.

Sully wrote: »

Anyway, you think the council would do something about Brendan rather then letting him rule the place.

I know it would be great to put a stop to a nuisance like that, but can they actually do anything? Can they take away someones right to object to planning, even if that person is a pain in the rear who objects to everything going?

merlante

I think if the Newgate centre goes through you'll see a rejuvenation of the streets between Newgate and City Square, followed by the peripheral streets.

At the moment out of town shopping and McCann are contributing to a sense of uncertainty in the city centre.

Once you go out to the outskirts the shops and businesses are thriving, such as on the Inner Ring Road, Ardkeen village, Cork rd. and so on. But the city centre is struggling.

JR Square and George's st. have improved a lot in 10 years with the introduction of the likes of Laura Palmer, O'Briens, BB's, Subway, Tommy Hilfiger and the new place where the USIT office used to be; but then you have losses such as Egans, the two bank/insurance type places either side of Penny's, The Bank and the proliferation of mobile phone shops, which add absolutely nothing.

Michael st. will be sorted as soon as the Newgate centre goes through, assuming it does. John's st. is a complete disaster, with numerous empty units, including a building site where Wylies used to be. O'Connell st. was doing and looking a lot better, but Haricot's and Full of Beans are pretty big losses to a street that had little enough to offer as it was.

Some streets are better than they used to be. The Quay is doing a lot better than it has done since the port moved down river. High st., Henrietta st., Bailey's New st. are doing a lot better. Ballybricken is stronger than it has been in recent times. The Glen and the area between the Glen and O'Connell street have been rescued from dereliction.

I have to say that after significant signs that the celtic tiger had finally reached the city centre around 2002, the city centre in 2008 if anything is in a worse state. But all you have to do is head out to the suburbs to see that there is huge business being done by retailers to see that this is mainly a city centre problem.

We need the council to stick to their guns on out of town shopping. We need to try to prevent Waterford and Kilkenny Co. Co.'s from opening any more large shopping centres on the edge of the city. We need Brendan McCann to have some sort of religious experience whereby he sees the light. We need massive investment in the city centre.

This massive investment will come in the form of the Newgate centre... if there is a God. The North Quays will hopefully then come on stream and add to the momentum, and ultimately renovations on the viking quarter and the development of the government quarter will play their parts.

Sully

Kahless wrote: »

I know it would be great to put a stop to a nuisance like that, but can they actually do anything? Can they take away someones right to object to planning, even if that person is a pain in the rear who objects to everything going?

No but they can put policies in place, and strict guidelines to prevent the abuse of the system. He agreed himself in the News & Star with that, IIRC.

tonyagrey

City centre is dying slowly. Traffic, lack of parking, cost of parking and availability of similar services in the surrounding areas have led to Waterford City slowly loosing its appeal.
The only thing keeping the city afloat is the existence of the banks in the town centre. However, in my opinion it is only a matter of time until one of the big banks decides to buy 3/4 acres out by 6 cross roads, Whitfield Hospital etc and build there. Once one of these banks moves out of the city centre, then they will all follow suit.
The banks know this also. Thats why they sold all their premises in the city 5/6 years ago........... Its not a matter of if, but when!

merlante

tonyagrey wrote: »

City centre is dying slowly. Traffic, lack of parking, cost of parking and availability of similar services in the surrounding areas have led to Waterford City slowly loosing its appeal.
The only thing keeping the city afloat is the existence of the banks in the town centre. However, in my opinion it is only a matter of time until one of the big banks decides to buy 3/4 acres out by 6 cross roads, Whitfield Hospital etc and build there. Once one of these banks moves out of the city centre, then they will all follow suit.
The banks know this also. Thats why they sold all their premises in the city 5/6 years ago........... Its not a matter of if, but when!

Traffic is mild in Waterford compared to other cities, and there is ample parking all day. The are *always* spaces in the New st. carpark right in the centre of town. I don't think it is any more expensive to park in Waterford than any other city.

The city centre is mainly free of cars so it is quite pleasant to shop there in fairness.

The banks don't do much for the city centre imho, and are closing anyhow. The banks will never move to the ORR because they favour old stately buildings in city and town centres, as least for their main branches. When banks close, often it is because they are trying to phase out face to face banking in favour of online banking. To a certain extent smaller branches will follow the population though.

Banks and mobile phone shops take up a lot of the units in inner city Waterford but they offer very little. Still, at least someone is going in there...

fricatus

tonyagrey wrote: »

The only thing keeping the city afloat is the existence of the banks in the town centre.

Ehhh, where on earth did you get that idea?

By that reckoning, when the banks close on a Saturday, the place should be empty... but in reality it's the opposite.

I'd say it's closer to the truth to say that Debenhams is the only think keeping the city centre afloat. Certainly it's the main reason why people up here where I work, in KK, would head down to Waterford.

fitzyshea

Who is Brendan McCann? I lived in Waterford for five years, went to WIT. Love the city and would consider returning to live there in the future.

trishw78

Think he's a Maths Lecturer in WIT.

I fairness parking is quite expensive Waterford I went to Kilkenny 2 weeks ago and only paid €2 in the Market Cross for 2 hours. I know it's more expensive up in McDonagh Junction. but there's a free car park not far away from it if you wanted go in there.

What's the going rate at the moment in Waterford for 2 hours parking €3.80, for the saving of 1.80 I prefer Kilkenny.

Bards

I think the City Council should Price the likes of Banks, Mobile Phone shops and any other business that is not adding to the retail primacy of the City Centre out.

Example:

Mobile phone is operating in City Square / John Robertts Square. Rates should be increased to €2m annually or more (I don't know what the rate is presently)

If they choose O'Connel street they get a reduction to €750,000 annually or some other insentive like that.

Locally owned ,small, indigenous retail units should be encouraged to setup in the City Centre to avoid Waterford becomming like every other City/town in the country with the same shops etc.

They should even have their rates subsidised by the likes of the Banks etc by charging them more(Especially if their turnover is less than €500,000) if they are providing a critical mass of small shops that attract people to the City.

The likes of the DIY store opposite City Square should be given an insentive to move out of the City Centre to the peripherary.

The Park retail units should all be knocked and re-located to the ORR so that we could have another area for small cafes etc with waterfront views.

Why does the City Council allow such valluable land to be used for retail warehousing??