Restricted List out

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

I think the important thing is not so much what's on or off the list (important though it is), but rather what the implications of being on the list are/will be; and those we won't know for some time yet.

(Personally, I remain as pessimistic on this as I've always been, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong)

+1

rrpc

Traumadoc wrote: »

is a 303 not in actual fact .310 inches?

It's actually anything from .303" up to .318". The variance is due to the way in which the bore is measured. AFAIK, the round itself is nominally .303" but some handloads can be made to bigger diameters depending on the bore of the rifle.

There is some confusion as to whether 7.62 and .303 are the same round. In actual fact they are not and the 7.62 was the replacement for the .303 and is nominally .300" diameter.

V Bull

This is the biggest load of rubbish I've come across in a long time.

Everyone scare mongering yet again.

If the so called restricted list is published and is now law why not PRINT IT ON THIS THREAD for all to see and read.

Where is it, I've searched all websites without success, whats the website address for all of this...........................????

rrpc

V Bull wrote: »

This is the biggest load of rubbish I've come across in a long time.

Everyone scare mongering yet again.

If the so called restricted list is published and is now law why not PRINT IT ON THIS THREAD for all to see and read.

Where is it, I've searched all websites without success, whats the website address for all of this...........................????

V Bull, if you've read the thread, you'll see that people have had sight of it in gun dealer's premises. Publishing of S.I.'s is done in Iris Oifiguil, which usually only happens when (a) the SI is signed, (b) it's been given an SI number (c) it's actually printed and sent to the Government Publications Office.

The dealers have probably been given a printed version of a soft copy. It may not even have an SI number.

The last thing to bear in mind is that most SI's are given a commencement date which usually allows for (a),(b) and (c) to have been carried out first.

So even if it's published, it may not be law until some future date. An example of this is the new VRT and motor tax rating system.

The first place to look for publication is http://www.irisoifigiuil.ie/ and click on the 'current issues' link. Iris Oifiguil is published twice weekly.

José Alaninho

So, according to the restricted list, any shotgun that holds over 3 rounds is restricted. I am currently waiting for the result of an application for a Remington 870. Will this affect it, i.e the fact that the list came in right in the middle of the application process? Or would it exempt the 870 from the list if the magazine plug was installed to reduce it to two in the tube, one in the chamber?

meathshooter

Where does this leave people who are currently waiting for pistol certs above .22,I know a good few in that predicament,I agree Its good there some type of criteria set,puts a lot of fears to rest in .233 anyway thats
a good outcome,DOES this mean that If want to take up fullbore pistol say
ipsa,1500,issf centrefire,ect I will be told no,or if I meet a certain critea
they would grant a cert,What is the criteria or will they make it up as the go

Slug chucker

The creature has a name: S.I. No. 021 of 2008
I can't find any mention of it on the web but I have read a copy of it.
I won't try to quote any of it as it would only be done by memory and that’s not exact enough to put into print. But as above, rifle shooters are fine unless you own something like an AR 15 or it's over .308 in caliber but there is bad news for the pistol shooters. There was a mention of ISSF rimfire rules, so if it is a .22 and fits into the target category it's ok but anything bigger is on the restricted list.

I'd go with the optimists, let’s just wait and see what happens but I will be contacting my firearms officer to get clarification of my position well in advance of the renewals in August as I possibly have three on the restricted side of things.
As the old saying goes “forewarned is forearmed”

No doubt I’m sure our well informed colleagues in the SSAI will have a copy of the S.I. in their possession which would have been supplied to them during there interaction with the FCP and will publish it on their website so we can all read it. I’d like to think this is going to be the case so we the shooters will not be the last people on the face of the planet to actually officially read the document?

Cheers,
Slug

rrpc

Slug chucker wrote: »

The creature has a name: S.I. No. 021 of 2008

Here's the link to the issue of Iris Oifigiuil that announces it. It's not available yet from the menu of issues, but it's there for those who know how to look

http://www.irisoifigiuil.ie/pdfs/ir150208.pdf

I can see a queue developing outside the Government Publications Office for when it opens first thing on Monday morning

Sparks

That Irish Oifigiuil bit is a tad annoying:

S.I. No. 21 of 2008.
FIREARMS (RESTRICTED FIREARMS AND
AMMUNITION) ORDER 2008.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Brian
Lenihan, has made an Order declaring specified firearms and
ammunition to be restricted by reference to certain criteria.
Copies may be obtained from the Government Publications Sale
Office, Sun Alliance House, Molesworth Street, Dublin 2 or by
mail order from Government Publications, Postal Trade Section,
Unit 20, Lakeside Retail Park, Claremorris, Co. Mayo, fax 094
9378964.
Price: \2.54
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, EQUALITY AND
LAW REFORM.
[14]

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

I can see a queue developing outside the Government Publications Office for when it opens first thing on Monday morning

Perhaps not - they don't open till half nine so you can't really drop in on the way to work. On the other hand, I've the day off so I'll grab a copy if one's not shown up here by then.

Our man in Havana

Mail order ftw!

IDon'tKnow!

I was In a dealer on Saturday and he told me the changes will be in from May this year. Might have just said this because my friend was looking at hand guns.

But maybe there is a dealer who have this letter who could put a copy on the board. They could remove any personal details that were on it first.

cavan shooter

Slug chucker wrote: »

The creature has a name: S.I. No. 021 of 2008

At last vindication, thank you Slug Chucker, for a while there I didn't know what way things were going to pan out I'll try get a copy tomorrow,and pick the bits out and post

sidneyreilly

Here ye are.

IRLConor

Cool. Thanks.

I wonder did they have any reason for restricting shotguns with pistol grips and bullpup rifles other than "they look scary".

rrpc

Thanks for that Sidney. I've run it through my OCR and stripped out the front page stuff leaving the meat in a word document.

here.

It's a bit easier to read. Any mistakes are mine or the software's

rrpc

IRLConor wrote: »

Cool. Thanks.

I wonder did they have any reason for restricting shotguns with pistol grips and bullpup rifles other than "they look scary".

I'd say it's for overall length reasons. Bullpups can be very short and more concealable I suppose, same goes for pistol grip shotties.

Interesting to see that the barrel length of the shotgun is now specified in cm and inches. I remember a discussion here recently as to whether the length was 24" or 60cm.

IRLConor

rrpc wrote: »

I'd say it's for overall length reasons. Bullpups can be very short and more concealable I suppose, same goes for pistol grip shotties.

I guess, but then they already have overall length restrictions which should take care of those concerns.

rrpc wrote: »

Interesting to see that the barrel length of the shotgun is now specified in cm and inches. I remember a discussion here recently as to whether the length was 24" or 60cm.

Yeah, it's nice to see that they're being more explicit.

rrpc

IRLConor wrote: »

I guess, but then they already have overall length restrictions which should take care of those concerns.

Hmmm. The only thing is that those restrictions are on barrel length. If they were introduced assuming a standard stock length, then it would have to be changed to take stock shortening into account. I'm just making assumptions here, but it's conceivable that you'd have a pistol grip shottie with a total length of 24" which perhaps was not the intention of the original restriction?

Mellor

The defination of a silencer is also technically accurate too.

“silencers”, in relation to firearms, means any devices fitted or capable of being fitted to the firearms for the purpose of moderating or reducing the sound made on their discharge;

Rovi

sidneyreilly wrote: »

Here ye are.

Great stuff, thanks for that Sidney; I ran your scans through an OCR program, results attached for everyone's printing and copy'npasting pleasure.
I'm pretty sure it's a true and accurate rendition, but it's very UNOFFICIAL.

If anyone sees any errors in the transcription, let me know and I'll change it asap.

edited to add:
Buggery!, rrpc beat me to it

Sparks

Thanks for beating me to it you guys, but it's not a fair match if I'm sitting here in the middle of an ESB powercut


Hmmm.

“assault rifles” means—
a)rifles capable of functioning as semi-automatic firearms and as automatic firearms,
b)firearms that resemble such rifles;
So a firearm that resembles an automatic firearm is restricted. Thing is, I don't know what specific cosmetic feature makes a firearm resemble an automatic firearm which a hunting rifle does not have. I mean, sure, AR-15s are an easy fit to this, but the M-16 is not the only automatic firearm out there and it certainly isn't the only pattern for one. The M-14 is as well, and the M-1 Garand had fully automatic firing modes added towards the end of the second world war. And both of those look a lot like most hunting rifles. Lovely.

shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges,
That's a pretty major change, taking a range of shotguns that were legal for use on clay pigeons and other non-game things and making them restricted.

the following short firearms designed for use in connection with competitions governed by International Olympic Committee regulations:
The designed for is, I understand, already recognised for that daftness that it is (a lot of firearms now winning ISSF matches in Ireland are not designed for ISSF matches, they're just suitable for them - things like the Ruger and Browning .22 pistols and that new plastic Hamerreli for example).
But more annoying is the fact that there are no International Olympic Committee regulations for firearms or target shooting competitions. There are ISSF rules, but the IOC don't get involved. That's already been shown when the IPSC applied to the IOC to be in the Athens Olympics and were told "not up to us, check with the ISSF, we don't do that sort of thing". So basicly, that paragraph is a nonsense.

And of course, 5(a):
ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles
Amazing what damage one comma can do, isn't it?
(Anyone here got projectiles that won't penetrate? Other than airsofters and paintballers?)

I'm pretty sure you could argue that shotgun cartridges, of all types, now qualify as sabot rounds under that SI as well.

There is something bothering me though - there's a nice definition in there of "silencer", but that's a definition in an SI - and an SI cannot overrule an Act (if it could, you could just redefine law as a Minister without ever needing to go near the Dail, which would make a coup d'etat a lot easier on the paperwork, but a lot more frequent an occurance as well). So now we have conflicting definitions for things like silencers and long firearms and so forth; how's that to be reconciled?

And that bullpup rifle bit is a bit daft as well. I'm sure G22 owners won't like it much.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Thanks for beating me to it you guys, but it's not a fair match if I'm sitting here in the middle of an ESB powercut
........

And that bullpup rifle thing is a bit daft really. It's like they just want to get rid of the G22, but that's already

Another powercut?

bunny shooter

Should pay the bill on time

Sparks

Shouldn't let construction crews dig with JCBs near substations...
And not sure what happened with the editor there.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

So a firearm that resembles an automatic firearm is restricted.

There is a straight pull Steyr Aug in 223 availabe in UK. Any chance of getting one here now ? Only restricted but what are the chances ?

There's mention of a prohibited weapon, 5 (g) "ammunition for a prohibited weapon", where is this list ? Is there one ?

Sparks

The prohibited list is in the Act Bunny, it's mostly things like flamethrowers, stun guns, cannons, that sort of thing.

Sparks

In Section 1:

“prohibited weapon” means and includes any weapon of whatever description designed for the discharge of any noxious liquid, noxious gas or other noxious thing, and also any ammunition (whether for any such weapon or any other weapon) which contains or is designed or adapted to contain any noxious liquid, noxious gas or other noxious thing;

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

the following short firearms designed for use in connection with competitions governed by International Olympic Committee regulations:
The designed for is, I understand, already recognised for that daftness that it is (a lot of firearms now winning ISSF matches in Ireland are not designed for ISSF matches, they're just suitable for them - things like the Ruger and Browning .22 pistols and that new plastic Hamerreli for example).
But more annoying is the fact that there are no International Olympic Committee regulations for firearms or target shooting competitions. There are ISSF rules, but the IOC don't get involved. That's already been shown when the IPSC applied to the IOC to be in the Athens Olympics and were told "not up to us, check with the ISSF, we don't do that sort of thing". So basicly, that paragraph is a nonsense.

It can be a bit funnier than that Sparks. AFAIK, the ISSF sport pistol competition was actually derived from the NRA (US) bullseye pistol competition and many of the firearms designed for that were transferred straight over to ISSF.

Bit of a chicken and egg really.

Other countries (Canada for example) also use the Olympic designation. Because the IOC delegate to the respective sports governing bodies, it's a distinction without a difference and it's easier for people to know what they're referring to.

The 'designed for' bit could be a double-edged sword, because it implies intention on the part of the manufacturer. As everyone knows, manufacturers make things to sell them, so no manufacturer is going to say "my product is designed for the Olympics and you can't use it for anything else".

A quick trawl of websites shows that very few use the 'Olympic' word at all. Anschütz refer to ISSF, Pardini do mention Olympics but only in reference to medals won.

The ISSF rules only specify the size and shape (including grip shape), weight and minimum trigger weight for pistols.

All those with six ounce triggers on their Hammerlis take note

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

The prohibited list is in the Act Bunny, it's mostly things like flamethrowers, stun guns, cannons, that sort of thing.

Ivan will be disappointed