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Mellor, I think it's the DoJ's intention to ban "combat shotguns" and that they have an image in mind when using that term of something like these:
(and for those who'd point out the M97 types of shotgun, I'd point out that if they had an easy way to be distinguished like, say, the number of shells they hold in the magazine, then you might see them restricted as well).
However, I know that it's the DoJ's law that shotguns with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or with a pistol grip are restricted. And that's not an independent pistol grip, it's just a pistol grip.0 -
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You may have missed the post regarding what the DoJ has said the mandate of the FCP includes. The FCP members do not get to set that mandate.1) The FCP say that the restricted list was not part of their remit.
q) If it was nothing to do with them, why were they there in the first place if not to represent the interestes of shooters.
And as to complaints that they should, the problem is that the FCP is, as we said two years ago, not a body with a veto over firearms legislation. The best they can do is offer solid advice and lobby for sensible changes.
If more than that is what you want done, you're about four years too late - and yes, we did have threads that far back pointing out that the CJB2004 was going to do us over rather badly.
Not much we can do about it now, unless you know of a reliable way to have more liberal firearms legislation drafted. (And if you do, the NRA-ILA would like a word).
Not really. How restricted firearm certificates are dealt with, however, is. And that's not something we're going to see for a while.Is the issue of what firerarms are to be restricted one of the core issues which affect every shooter in this country.
No, it's not and anyone who says they saw that SI list before it got signed hasn't read the SI fully yet. They saw drafts, which were not signed in.2) The list has been out for some weeks now. That is admitted.
No, it's an advisory panel to a civil service department. You don't elect the civil servants in the DoJ, nor do you get to chose who the Minister will be (you only get to chose whether someone is or is not a TD, is what I mean - rather than voting for a certain TD to take up a certain ministerial post).Q) Why did the FCP panel not distribute it to the shooting community to let them see it and get their comments.
Maybe im mistaken but I thought this was a demoracy.
As to the selection of FCP members, that was not done by the shooting community but by the DoJ - all members of the FCP are there at the invitation of the Minister.
Really? 'cos I'm looking at continuing to have to get certs for two of my "firearms" which in fact aren't firearms anywhere else in the EU. Which makes for lots of fun when going to international matches...3) Rifle shooters and db/l shotgunners done pretty well out of the list.
Also, it's still one gun, one cert, so I don't think we did so well myself.
Pistol shooters (center fire) also includes olympic target shooters. Just 'cos we use .32 more often than .45 does not mean we don't use fullbore, thanks. And frankly, you ought to be happy that the olympic stuff gets special mention in the SI - or haven't you checked your pistol's size against the ISSF regs recently?Q) Is it not the case that the interestes of several members of the FCP have had the interests of their members well secured by this list, ie Mr Crofton, air pistols/rifles/olympic target shooters (.22lr). while pistol shooters (center fire) have been generally SCREWED !
Technically, they're our representatives to the DoJ. The Gardai are also members of the FCP, on the same status level as our lot in there. The FCP is not just target shooters - it's also hunters, farmers, gardai, and so forth.Q) Why the level of secrecy of the FCP to the general shooting community.
Comment: They are supposed to be OUR representatives to the DOJ/Cops etc.
I fully agree, there should be more open reports. There have been some, but nowhere near enough.They should be reporting to us after each and every module of the meetings. I havent heard anything of what is going on, whats been said, whats been agreed etc.
However, the nature of the FCP highlighted above may hint as to why.
Not even with a barge pole. And here's why:I personally didnt like...
Yup. On the other hand, from what little I've heard, it's been the single best exercise in inter-NGB and general inter-body work in shooting administration in a decade.I have to question the complete lack of accountability of the FCP to the shooting community. I dont like this list and many people I know dont like it. Its going to end up in court and cost a lot of people a lot of money.0 -
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You may have missed the post regarding what the DoJ has said the mandate of the FCP includes. The FCP members do not get to set that mandate.
And as to complaints that they should, the problem is that the FCP is, as we said two years ago, not a body with a veto over firearms legislation. The best they can do is offer solid advice and lobby for sensible changes.
If more than that is what you want done, you're about four years too late - and yes, we did have threads that far back pointing out that the CJB2004 was going to do us over rather badly.
Not much we can do about it now, unless you know of a reliable way to have more liberal firearms legislation drafted. (And if you do, the NRA-ILA would like a word).
Not really. How restricted firearm certificates are dealt with, however, is. And that's not something we're going to see for a while.
No, it's not and anyone who says they saw that SI list before it got signed hasn't read the SI fully yet. They saw drafts, which were not signed in.
No, it's an advisory panel to a civil service department. You don't elect the civil servants in the DoJ, nor do you get to chose who the Minister will be (you only get to chose whether someone is or is not a TD, is what I mean - rather than voting for a certain TD to take up a certain ministerial post).
As to the selection of FCP members, that was not done by the shooting community but by the DoJ - all members of the FCP are there at the invitation of the Minister.
Really? 'cos I'm looking at continuing to have to get certs for two of my "firearms" which in fact aren't firearms anywhere else in the EU. Which makes for lots of fun when going to international matches...
Also, it's still one gun, one cert, so I don't think we did so well myself.
Pistol shooters (center fire) also includes olympic target shooters. Just 'cos we use .32 more often than .45 does not mean we don't use fullbore, thanks. And frankly, you ought to be happy that the olympic stuff gets special mention in the SI - or haven't you checked your pistol's size against the ISSF regs recently?
Technically, they're our representatives to the DoJ. The Gardai are also members of the FCP, on the same status level as our lot in there. The FCP is not just target shooters - it's also hunters, farmers, gardai, and so forth.
I fully agree, there should be more open reports. There have been some, but nowhere near enough.
However, the nature of the FCP highlighted above may hint as to why.
Not even with a barge pole. And here's why:
Yup. On the other hand, from what little I've heard, it's been the single best exercise in inter-NGB and general inter-body work in shooting administration in a decade.
Sparks, how in gods green earth can you maintain that the FCP is not answerable to shooters in ireland. The restricted list has been out and was agreed from Late January/ early Febuary. How do I knmow this ? Because I am particularly friendly with a PARTICULAR TD ansd was distributed to members of the FCP some time ago.
One of us has obviously suffered some form of brain trauma because if you are trying to tell me that the Declan Keogh saga doesnt stink to high heaven then there is definitely something really wrong with whats happened wiht the restricted list.
I never said anything about the fcp having any power of veto, what I wanted was a degree of accountability to the shooters of this country. From what I have seen, read and heard they appear to be keeping results of meeting, deliberations very secret. The question has to be asked, and that is why ?. Can you provide me with any logical explanation of why they have been so damm secretive so far ? Im not an unreasonable person so please go ahead.
Those discussions affect every one of us here, you and me included. What will you be saying of your CS suddenly decides to not allow you one of your firearms ?. If a restricted list doesnt affect every shooter in this country, then please tell me what does. if they were sidelined by the DOJ/Cops on the issue they should have got someone who knew how to handle them, ie Declan Keogh . Guaranteed the smirk will be on the other side of your face if your super or CS tells you to go feck off at renewal.
I figure the main poiint of difference we have is that you appear to agree with restrictive firearms legislation and I dont.
Tell me one thing Sparks ? Do you Fish ? because a fishing rod is probably aqll your going to end up with if the FCP continues to do what they are doing.0 -
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