Ronnie O' Sullivan - more runner than snooker player

TheRoadRunner

doke wrote: »

And the minimarathon....grrrr. Why can't they just call it a 10K and have done with? Or should the 400m be renamed the minimile? 10K into a real marathon, you're barely warmed up.

I know its a pet peeve but you hit the nail on the head for me there

louthandproud

doke wrote: »

Dogs....grrrrr. Didn't realise they were required to be on a lead in public parks: ammunition for my inevitable next confrontation with "Ah sure he won't go near you" owner. Usually I tell them that I contacted the guards about the last dog that bit me and the dog was destroyed. Total lie of course, but effective.

Unless there is a specific rule in the particular park dogs can be without a lead. In the Phoenix Park for example the "must have a lead" rule applies at specific times of the year and is signposted (deer breeding time). It would be nice to have somewhere to report abuses of these rules though, as people don't adhere to them in any case. Bad for the deers and other park users, especially runners.

thirtyfoot

rovers_runner wrote: »

Tingle, if someone completes a marathon to the best of their ability at a given time and they took longer than is deemed "acceptable" does that mean they shouldn't have taken part in the first place?

No, not all. Is IOR saying that? Not sure.

What he could be saying is that people who merely 'finish' a marathon aren't really 'marathon runners'. They are two different sports really, the elite end and the mass participation end. Marathon is unique in that both ends race in the same race but they are two different sports and IOR is coming from the elite side of things. I respect all runners and I'm sure IOR does too but the title of being a 'marathon runner' is probably a bit tarnished now in that so many do it, a bit like climbing everest! There is elitism everywhere and its all relative, eg, people peeved at a 10k being called a mini-marathon.

I think everyone agrees its good to have a quality Athletics column in a quality paper on a regular basis, the sport needs it. I buy the Irish Times every saturday to read it while vegging on the couch for the afternoon after training that morning. Long may it last (even if the journalist is a tosser)

louthandproud

Tingle wrote: »

No, not all. Is IOR saying that? Not sure.

What he could be saying is that people who merely 'finish' a marathon aren't really 'marathon runners'. They are two different sports really, the elite end and the mass participation end. Marathon is unique in that both ends race in the same race but they are two different sports and IOR is coming from the elite side of things. I respect all runners and I'm sure IOR does too but the title of being a 'marathon runner' is probably a bit tarnished now in that so many do it, a bit like climbing everest! There is elitism everywhere and its all relative, eg, people peeved at a 10k being called a mini-marathon.

I think everyone agrees its good to have a quality Athletics column in a quality paper on a regular basis, the sport needs it. I buy the Irish Times every saturday to read it while vegging on the couch for the afternoon after training that morning. Long may it last (even if the journalist is a tosser)

If you run Marathons on any kind of regular basis and plan to continue to do so then you are a 'marathon runner'. If you are currently running in a marathon you are a 'marathon runner'. It's simple English, IOR is being an elitist pain in the butt, not the kind of journalism that would endear people to athletics or to just running in general.

The more people that get out running and participate in Marathons, 10K's, mini Marathons or whatever for their own personal betterment or even competitively the better. This king of elitist cr*p shouldn't even make it to print.

copacetic

Tingle wrote: »

No, not all. Is IOR saying that? Not sure.

What he could be saying is that people who merely 'finish' a marathon aren't really 'marathon runners'. They are two different sports really, the elite end and the mass participation end. Marathon is unique in that both ends race in the same race but they are two different sports and IOR is coming from the elite side of things. I respect all runners and I'm sure IOR does too but the title of being a 'marathon runner' is probably a bit tarnished now in that so many do it, a bit like climbing everest! There is elitism everywhere and its all relative, eg, people peeved at a 10k being called a mini-marathon.

I think everyone agrees its good to have a quality Athletics column in a quality paper on a regular basis, the sport needs it. I buy the Irish Times every saturday to read it while vegging on the couch for the afternoon after training that morning. Long may it last (even if the journalist is a tosser)

as far as I can tell tingle you are saying that IOR doesn't actually mean what he writes. You are in fact saying he believes the opposite to what he has written.

thirtyfoot

copacetic wrote: »

as far as I can tell tingle you are saying that IOR doesn't actually mean what he writes. You are in fact saying he believes the opposite to what he has written.

Exactly, what else would you expect from a tosser.

copacetic

Tingle wrote: »

Exactly, what else would you expect from a tosser.

good point.

thirtyfoot

louthandproud wrote: »

. This king of elitist cr*p shouldn't even make it to print.

Check out Lindie's articles in the Herald on thursdays, very wholesome, grassroots and caters for all and not a sniff of how our potential olympic athletes are getting on. She has a book out too, Lindie is the future, go Lindie, she'll probably meet all your athletic reading needs in one. She loves everyone (except prima donna sprinters that is):D

TheRoadRunner

Tingle wrote: »

Check out Lindie's articles in the Herald on thursdays, very wholesome, grassroots and caters for all and not a sniff of how our potential olympic athletes are getting on. She has a book out too, Lindie is the future, go Lindie, she'll probably meet all your athletic reading needs in one. She loves everyone (except prima donna sprinters that is):D

She is a bit too grassroots in my opinion and she makes no effort to hide it.

Fair enough I like to hear who won local races etc. I usually compete in the majority of these so sometimes you get your mug into the paper also.

However if you want any info on national championships etc forget about it.

Having said that she does have some favourites amongst the track fraternity and she will give them a mention where ever possible !

louthandproud

Tingle wrote: »

Check out Lindie's articles in the Herald on thursdays, very wholesome, grassroots and caters for all and not a sniff of how our potential olympic athletes are getting on. She has a book out too, Lindie is the future, go Lindie, she'll probably meet all your athletic reading needs in one. She loves everyone (except prima donna sprinters that is):D

Not sure if that is sarcasm or not, in any case I would love to see lots more coverage of Athletics in the print media and all other media too, including and especially on elite Athletics, especially Irish Elite athletics. However a journalist should be able to discuss elite athletics without belittling all other athletes no matter how good or bad they are. Running as a sport has mass appeal and long may that continue and grow. I call myself a marathon runner whatever IOR thinks.

thirtyfoot

louthandproud wrote: »

However a journalist should be able to discuss elite athletics without belittling all other athletes no matter how good or bad they are. .

Lindie is the opposite, she writes about the average Joe and belittles the elite, Ian about the elite and apparently belittles the Joe. Something for everyone, maybe they could come together and we would have a super balanced approach to athletic writing.:D. Lindie telling us about average Josephine winning the 3k mountain race in 56 mins, Ian piping in Dunphy speak saying "that rubbish, your a spoofer Lindie, a charlatan" and so on.

I should have added more :D:D:D to my previous post too as I was taking the p*ss.

T runner

Tingle wrote: »

. Lindie telling us about average Josephine winning the 3k mountain race in 56 mins

Its true: there is no elitism on the hills--and fair play to them for it-good grounded people. There has even been the odd Irish 10,000 track champion compete on the mountains and even they have been humbled!

copacetic

Tingle wrote: »

Lindie is the opposite, she writes about the average Joe and belittles the elite, Ian about the elite and apparently belittles the Joe. Something for everyone, maybe they could come together and we would have a super balanced approach to athletic writing.:D. Lindie telling us about average Josephine winning the 3k mountain race in 56 mins, Ian piping in Dunphy speak saying "that rubbish, your a spoofer Lindie, a charlatan" and so on.

I should have added more :D:D:D to my previous post too as I was taking the p*ss.

why did you feel the need to drag lindie into it? why the 'apparently' above, there is no apparently about it. It's there in black and white

Racing Flat

It's a poor attitude from IOR based on that article. How narrow-minded to say 'I have no respect for 2.31 because I ran faster once'. Can't he see that the runner who does 6.15 could just as easily claim to have 'no respect' for 6.31, but huge respect for 5.59? He's shown up really bu Brendan Foster and Steve Cram who are happy to commentate on the elite runner but also don't mind being involved with the 6hour runners in the London marathon etc. Maybe they're not bitter because they really 'made it'.

Slogger Jogger

Interesting discussion ensued there guys. Seems there are lots of types of runners. 2 kinds are obvious offhand...
1. The kind that enjoys their running for what it is and makes the most of it (very much in a Ronnie O'Sullivan type of way, which is the way I'm enjoying my running at the moment I have to say.... I can't wait to get out there each day..)
2. The nark. Runs, but doesn't particularly enjoy it and you wonder why they do it and you wonder why they debate and write about it. Hey narkies out there... do a ronnie!

Regards,

Slo Jogger (and happy at it)

aburke

My 2 cents.

Any sport, running included, has an elite end.
They all have lower levels too.

I've always considered myself a Junior C runner [if you ever played GAA you'll understand], with aspirations of making the senior team.

Running is a bit peculiar, in that ALL levels can take part in the one event such as a big Marathon. This doesn't happen in GAA or any team sports really.

Ian writes more about the elite end of things, and his rant, from what I can see, is bemoaning the lack of an elite field in that particular race.
3:25 is a long way down the field even in Dublin. 2:31 is along way down the top end in Dublin, yet good enough for 1st in Jamica.

When he talks about having 'no respect' for a time, I read it as in comparison to a an elite time, which is fair enough, if you're interested in the elite end of things.

I don't see it being too much different from Dunphy bemoaning the lack of "great" players in the modern game.

Later
Alan

thirtyfoot

copacetic wrote: »

why did you feel the need to drag lindie into it?

Lindie is dragged in because she is the alternative weekly column and to be honest its grand if it was a regional/local newspaper. IOR gives an alternative, which me and most of my athletics peers have more of an interest in. Talk to any athletes at the National Senior Championships in Santry and ask what they think of Lindie's column. Ask non-athletic people who have a passing interest in the sport which they would prefer to read. Thats all really, IOR gives an alternative to the stuff Lindie has, which in my opinion is dreadful.

thirtyfoot

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

Interesting discussion ensued there guys. Seems there are lots of types of runners. 2 kinds are obvious offhand...
1. The kind that enjoys their running for what it is and makes the most of it (very much in a Ronnie O'Sullivan type of way, which is the way I'm enjoying my running at the moment I have to say.... I can't wait to get out there each day..)
2. The nark. Runs, but doesn't particularly enjoy it and you wonder why they do it and you wonder why they debate and write about it. Hey narkies out there... do a ronnie!

Regards,

Slo Jogger (and happy at it)

Two main types to me:

1. Club athlete - competes in club events like x-country, track etc and also 10k-marathon. I'd put Ronnie in here (finished 28th in Essex x-country champs!)
2. Recreational runner - do mainly 10k-Marathon and many times beat club athletes.

Very few run and don't enjoy it. Club athletes who don't enjoy running soon give it up as the commitment required is such that if you aren't enjoying it, its too much like hard work. Thats why many young athletes give up in the 16-21 age group, they just don't like it. Same applies to recreational runner.

If you're implication is that IOR is a nark who doesn't like running, you are wrong I'd say. He is so steeped in the sport, he'd be a bit of a masochist if he didn't enjoy. He is well liked by many of out top athletes from what i understand.

Back on the topic of athletic journalism the likes of the tripe written around Olympic time by Jerome O' Reilly in the Sindo a few years back is what we (the athletic/running community) should really be pi**ed off about. On the back of one of his tirades against our athletes 'wasting tax-payers money' at the Olympics, one athlete got hate-mail to their home address (I saw the letter) and while not too aggressive left the athlete pretty shook and asking some unjustified questions of themselves. Nice way to be treated when representing your country at the bloody olympics of all things.

copacetic

Tingle wrote: »

Lindie is dragged in because she is the alternative weekly column and to be honest its grand if it was a regional/local newspaper. IOR gives an alternative, which me and most of my athletics peers have more of an interest in. Talk to any athletes at the National Senior Championships in Santry and ask what they think of Lindie's column. Ask non-athletic people who have a passing interest in the sport which they would prefer to read. Thats all really, IOR gives an alternative to the stuff Lindie has, which in my opinion is dreadful.

so, no reason then. just to try to make IOR look better? and now you are trying to spin Jerome O'Reilly into it too?


The 'running community' is 99% made up of the people IOR was slagging off in the article above. Trying to make out that it doesn't matter is a transparent attempt at deflecting the justiifed criticism of IOR on here. He appears to be just bitter about the fact that he was never good enough himself as racing flat says.

run_Forrest_run

lads this is all getting very tiring!
so, who's doing Ballycotton?, getting close now.

thirtyfoot

copacetic wrote: »

The 'running community' is 99% made up of the people IOR was slagging off in the article above. .

Are 99% of the running community marathon runners? Not sure about that, not the running community I'm in. Maybe recreational runners yes, but not club runners who compete in club competitions. There is a whole community out there who have nothing to do with marathons. Sprinters, jumpers, throwers. As I've said already they are like two different sports.

IOR's comment re lack or respect are regarded by some as nasty but many of my peers in athletics, as opposed to just marathon running, would agree 100% with it (but they would be the prima-donna arrogant types:D). I don't agree 100% with it, but I think I know what he is trying say (as Aburke put it). Based on IAAF scoring comparison tables, your good club athlete who sprints, throws, jumps would run the comparison of a sub 2:30 for marathon. Nobody runs the marathon in Ireland anymore, an example being Martin Fagan being to first to qualify since '92. Its now a recreational sport in the main. No major problem for me, seems to be for IOR, more interested in the shorter stuff myself. Having said that Treacy's silver in LA is up with one of my favourite sporting moments ever.

As regards dragging Lindie in and trying to deflect, this thread started on an article by Ronnie O' Sullivan and morphed into an attack on IOR, its a chatboard afterall. A justified attack as he is a journalist and its a good debate.

And yes IOR is better than Jerome O' Reilly, as is Lindie, Mooney, Foley, Allen. JOR hasn't a clue (doesn't write about the sport regularly) but when he does the effect of his articles can have a more serious effect on athletes than what IOR or Lindie will write, even though they both know mountains more about the sport and care a lot more about the sport. Have any marathon runners got hate-mail saying they are sh*t at their job and a drain on the economy as a result of the IOR Jamaica article? Maybe a few jibes from friends though.

As run_forest_run said it is getting tiring and I'm particularly crusty and grumpy after last nights training. IOR was OTT but he is a good journalist in my opinion (much better than JOR). By the way, was there not a backtrack in his recent column when he talks about his friends training for Connemara and their dedication etc etc. Anyway, thats me done on this one.

copacetic

well possibly I was a bit hard on IOR, I'm very dissapointed in his attitide particularly since I have been a fan of his columns up to know. I disagree with what you are saying tingle, I know loads of runners in clubs that run marathons, and you know as well as I that predicting 2.30 for good short distance club athlethes is all well and good but very few have the heart and stamina to actually produce it in a marathon. I have a massive amount of respect for some 6 foot 4, 15 stone guy who is never going to be naturally fast at running getting round in a hard 4 hours after 6 months of training. Just as much respect as someone who is 5" 9' naturally light and good at long distance getting under 3hours. More even. I'm also good friends with top triathlethes and ironmen who would think very little of what IOR has to say in that article, I don't know one of them who would agree with it. If many of your peers in athlethics would it shows the difference between the attitude of people in the different sports and probably points more to the reasons for the decline of athlethics and the massive growth of mulltisport in recent years imo.

Racing Flat

copacetic wrote: »

If many of your peers in athlethics would it shows the difference between the attitude of people in the different sports and probably points more to the reasons for the decline of athlethics and the massive growth of mulltisport in recent years imo.

Ridiculous assumption and in any case inaccurate.

What decline? Numbers going up for Dublin marathon, adidas series, BHAA races every year! More and more runners out on the streets every summer.

I think:
a) more people are exercising now, than a few years ago, so there are more people running than before and lots more doing multi-sport because so few did it before; it's 'new'
b) perhaps the gyms have lost numbers to running and mutlisport. They ahd their day, but poeple got fed up with paying big fees for busy gyms and then not going anyway.

thirtyfoot

Racing Flat wrote: »

Ridiculous assumption and in any case inaccurate.

What decline? Numbers going up for Dublin marathon, adidas series, BHAA races every year! More and more runners out on the streets every summer.

I think:
a) more people are exercising now, than a few years ago, so there are more people running than before and lots more doing multi-sport because so few did it before; it's 'new'
b) perhaps the gyms have lost numbers to running and mutlisport. They ahd their day, but poeple got fed up with paying big fees for busy gyms and then not going anyway.

Very true. And also looking at the Olympics we have a very diverse team going. We were spoiled when Sonia was around as she was winning medals, but below her we had little diversity. Now we have 100,200,400,800 (probably), 1500(probably), 3000steeple, 5000, 10000, Marathon, 100hurdles, 400 hurdles (probably), walks, hammer, relays (probably) all going to Beijing. Now no medals will be won (except maybe Eileen and Rob) but its a diverse and promising group, far from decline (only blip is throws and jumps). The depth in the recent High Performance Panels is also promising.http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=3439#more-3439 . All these will have attained senior, junior or age group global or european qualification standards.

Multi sport (I'm presuming this is triathlons etc, is it?) is great but it is still 'new' and still very much recreational high numbers with no high performers of note except for Gavin Noble (there could be more, don't know?). There is no real underage element of note, crucial for breeding champions. Having said that I think triathlon is something an Irishman or woman could be very competitive at globally when you look at those who are top (NZ, Aus, GBR, western europe etc), no reason why Ireland can't be competitive against these nations, its not like we're against nations perceived to be more inately suited than us, eg, US/Caribbean sprinters, african runners, eastern european throwers. Its something we could win future global medals at.