Do you feel sorry for people living in the sticks..

Fighting Irish

..who get crap broadband?

Cos i don't, its like living in the country and expecting to have a Tescos right next door to you

Sponge Bob

Fighting Irish wrote: »

its like living in the country and expecting to have a Tescos right next door

Its not , it is another utility like electricity or water ....if you are a knowledge economy. The cost of provisioning it universally is a small fraction of 1% of GDP, thats all.

If you are not a knowledge economy then , of course, its a luxury like a Sainsburys next door.

Tesco is for riff raff , I always feel like I need a shower after I go in there Would not like one near me at all for fear of attracting these things to my neighbourhood

thebman

Fighting Irish wrote: »

..who get crap broadband?

Cos i don't, its like living in the country and expecting to have a Tescos right next door to you

Your either trolling or ignorant TBH.

BB is essential for so many people today that to expect people to move to areas where it is available is not practical.

There are many businesses "out in the sticks" that need broadband for what they do that can't get it. Should they move their business or should the government provision it to encourage investment and the creation of jobs in these areas so the areas become more built up and commercial broadband rol out becomes viable and the area no longer needs state investment for broadband?

Or to be seen to have a world class communications network nationwide to make ourselves highly visible to the companies that the government wants to invest in our "knowledge economy"

What about schools? Children don't deserve access to the Internet I suppose if they don't live in a city :rolleyes:

As Spongebob said, the government aren't doing it because its too expensive, they are just too ignorant to realize how important it is. Most of them can't even work their email and aren't using 56k connections or viewing companies extortionate bills in this country for broadband (highest line rental cost in the world is in Ireland for some of the worst speeds).

Sponge Bob

He couldn't be ignorant, by definition, if he lives in a knowledge economy ....or could he :eek: ..Yikes !! :eek:

zugvogel

Fighting Irish wrote: »

..who get crap broadband?

Cos i don't, its like living in the country and expecting to have a Tescos right next door to you

Hmmmm lets see now... maybe you're right?
Then again lets apply the same rule to say... drinking water or disposal of waste.
I note that Dublin in particular depends on its rural county neighbours for both these utilities/services and indeed is looking to pipe drinking water across the country from the Shannon, which is a proposal that isn’t going down to well in rural communities.
In the future a lot of the electricity (30 to 40%) that urban dwellers use is likely to be generated far away from the large urban areas e.g. windfarms, westcoast wave energy, biomass.
So going by your standards rural people should say “f..k them, let them get their water from their recycled piss, dump their used Tesco rubbish in their own back gardens and use bicycles hooked up to a dynamo for electricity to power their PCs:D

See - works both ways old chap;)

Finally, the Government want people to use the Internet in their day to day dealings with the public service e.g. revenue on line, planning online, motor-tax online etc (cheaper as you need less counter staff in public offices), and as government services have to be available equally to all citizens, there really is an obligation on the Government to make a reasonable broadband service available to all.

Fighting Irish

OK guys maybe you took me up wrong, i think every should have the best possible BB but don't live out in the country and then moan about BB being so bad

smellslikeshoes

Fighting Irish wrote: »

OK guys maybe you took me up wrong, i think every should have the best possible BB but don't live out in the country and then moan about BB being so bad

Try running a business with dial up and then say that again. The problem isn't just about bad broadband its having NO broadband. Northern Ireland has something like 99.9% access to broadband. Broadband today is an essential service. Saying that people shouldn't expect to get it in the country is total rubbish. We are years behind most European countries, and if people don't start complaining and kicking a fuss over it we are going to loose our competitiveness, then you can say goodbye to this knowledge based economy they are always talking about.

Firetrap

I assume the OP is trolling. But anyway..

The argument that people who live out on the sticks shouldn't expect to have broadband makes my blood boil and I don't even live in the country myself.

I have never heard anyone out the country complaining that Tesco isn't next door. People who live out the country have either grown up there and don't mind having to drive to the nearest town to shop because that's the way things always have been. And people who've moved there have done so of their own choice and they don't want to be living in an urban area.

On the other hand, broadband has become a necessity for anyone who uses a computer. It's as vital as running water or electricity (or does the OP want country folk to go back to pre-ESB days?), especially if you're hoping to run a business or work from home. Broadband isn't just for kids who want their Bebo pages to load faster or folk who want to look at stupid videos on YouTube all day. The other evening on Prime Time, they had people "out on the sticks" who are being affected by not having broadband. There was a guy whose company manufactures kitchens in Gowran, Co Kilkenny. He needs to email images to customers abroad as part of his work. Should he close up his business, sack the locals who work with him and move into a town?

The government should be encouraging businesses to set up outside of major urban areas, people to e-work (reduce congestion) and to enable the so-called "knowledge economy" to thrive.

gn3dr

Fighting Irish wrote: »

..who get crap broadband?

Cos i don't, its like living in the country and expecting to have a Tescos right next door to you

I live in what you would call "the sticks". I have Tescos 8 miles from me but I still can't get broadband.

Let me throw you another suggestion - do you think people in the sticks feel sorry for people in the cities who can "only" get 3MB and complain they can't get 12 or 20 Meg......

By the way I don't care if you feel sorry or not. Just continue looking after yourself there why don't you.

cornbb

Firetrap wrote:

I assume the OP is trolling. But anyway..

The argument that people who live out on the sticks shouldn't expect to have broadband makes my blood boil and I don't even live in the country myself.

I have never heard anyone out the country complaining that Tesco isn't next door. People who live out the country have either grown up there and don't mind having to drive to the nearest town to shop because that's the way things always have been. And people who've moved there have done so of their own choice and they don't want to be living in an urban area.

On the other hand, broadband has become a necessity for anyone who uses a computer. It's as vital as running water or electricity (or does the OP want country folk to go back to pre-ESB days?), especially if you're hoping to run a business or work from home. Broadband isn't just for kids who want their Bebo pages to load faster or folk who want to look at stupid videos on YouTube all day. The other evening on Prime Time, they had people "out on the sticks" who are being affected by not having broadband. There was a guy whose company manufactures kitchens in Gowran, Co Kilkenny. He needs to email images to customers abroad as part of his work. Should he close up his business, sack the locals who work with him and move into a town?

The government should be encouraging businesses to set up outside of major urban areas, people to e-work (reduce congestion) and to enable the so-called "knowledge economy" to thrive.

QFT.

Ok... the OP is either a bad troll or pig ignorant of rural life, but anyway.

I work in a software development company in Connemara and we get decent broadband speeds. So do my parents who live in the middle of nowhere in Co. Cork. I'm not saying Ireland has adequate universal broadband access/speed - we have terrible broadband, my Romanian workmate laments the lack of high speed access in Ireland compared to his own country.

I don't live in the sticks, unless you consider Galway city to be the sticks. If you feel sorry for people outside Dublin... don't be. Most of them are happy to drive 20 mins through beautiful countryside to Tesco rather than walking/driving for 5 minutes through a skanger-infested urban sprawl. I do like Dublin, but it's infrastructure and services are hardly a role-model for other parts of the country to aspire to.

zugvogel

cornbb wrote: »

...rather than walking/driving for 5 minutes through a skanger-infested urban sprawl...

More like an hour sitting in traffic to travel 3 or 4 miles!
Dublin Bus says it takes 40 to 50 minutes to get from O Connell Street to Dawson Street in rush hour - a distance of about half a mile:eek:

zonEEE

Fighting Irish your a Muppet.

cornbb

I don't mean to slag off Dublin, I'm sure living there has lots of perks.

The bottom line is, if the government doesn't improve internet access and speeds in Dublin and the rest of the country to bring them in line with the rest of europe we can kiss our "knowledge economy" and all its benefits goodbye.

Blaster99

To answer the question, no, I couldn't give a toss and I don't really see why I should subsidise rural Ireland any more than I already do. But it strikes me that in Ireland there's actually a pretty level playing field as eircom pretty much sets the standard and their service is currently universal within their coverage area. In most other countries, you would find significantly faster services in urban areas. Eircom has clearly prioritised coverage over innovation in the last few years which has greatly benefited rural Ireland. It looks like eircom is changing tack with their recent upgrades and the next-gen stuff, so I guess it's moving in the right direction.

stepbar

Fighting Irish wrote: »

OK guys maybe you took me up wrong, i think every should have the best possible BB but don't live out in the country and then moan about BB being so bad

What are you spouting about? :rolleyes: I've never seen such an incoherent argument before in my life. I feel sorry for folk like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about and thinks everything revolves around dublin. There are parts of dublin where you can't even get broadband and it's not because of disabled exchanges. It's because Eircon decided to install shared cabling instead of cabling for each household :rolleyes:

Firetrap

Blaster99 wrote: »

To answer the question, no, I couldn't give a toss and I don't really see why I should subsidise rural Ireland any more than I already do. But it strikes me that in Ireland there's actually a pretty level playing field as eircom pretty much sets the standard and their service is currently universal within their coverage area. In most other countries, you would find significantly faster services in urban areas. Eircom has clearly prioritised coverage over innovation in the last few years which has greatly benefited rural Ireland. It looks like eircom is changing tack with their recent upgrades and the next-gen stuff, so I guess it's moving in the right direction.

Erm...I wouldn't call it a level playing field. There are plenty of places (and not just in the countryside as stepbar has pointed out) where people can't get broadband because of paired lines, exchanges not broadband enabled etc. Everyone in the country should be able to get decent broadband regardless of where they live. We all pay high line rental regardless of where we live. If they can do it in so-called less developed countries, why can't they do it here?

stepbar

Blaster99 wrote: »

To answer the question, no, I couldn't give a toss and I don't really see why I should subsidise rural Ireland any more than I already do. But it strikes me that in Ireland there's actually a pretty level playing field as eircom pretty much sets the standard and their service is currently universal within their coverage area. In most other countries, you would find significantly faster services in urban areas. Eircom has clearly prioritised coverage over innovation in the last few years which has greatly benefited rural Ireland. It looks like eircom is changing tack with their recent upgrades and the next-gen stuff, so I guess it's moving in the right direction.

Thank god you're not in charge of Eircon. Do you really think you are subsidising rural Ireland? What a retarted view.

Fighting Irish

Firetrap wrote: »

I assume the OP is trolling. But anyway..

The argument that people who live out on the sticks shouldn't expect to have broadband makes my blood boil and I don't even live in the country myself.

Not trolling, and i am not talking about people with no broadband. I am talking about the people who can only use crap broadband services i.e. most of the wireless ones

Fighting Irish

stepbar wrote: »

What are you spouting about? :rolleyes: I've never seen such an incoherent argument before in my life. I feel sorry for folk like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about and thinks everything revolves around dublin. There are parts of dublin where you can't even get broadband and it's not because of disabled exchanges. It's because Eircon decided to install shared cabling instead of cabling for each household :rolleyes:

Dublin? Who mentioned Dublin?

What is it today "make stuff up day"?

I know a few people who have moved out to the countryside and then they complain they can't get good lines at good prices.
For example, one mate pays the same price as myself, he gets 1mb and its up and down like fook, i get 3mb and its perfect 90% of the time

Then he complains, all i am saying is what does he expect?

Firetrap

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Not trolling, and i am not talking about people with no broadband. I am talking about the people who can only use crap broadband services i.e. most of the wireless ones

What about people who live in urban areas who are also using the wireless ones and are getting an equally useless service? Is it OK for them to complain then?

limerick_woody

What an ignorant attitude - i fail to see the relevance of location and bb availability. I live in a rural community and only recently did Eircom enable the local exchange, prior to that i could barely even shop online, now i can work from home. Yet i pay the same tax rate as anyone else in the country and i am unaware of any pricing structure from Eircom that reflects the lack of services available to some poor people that Eircom havn't gotten around to. Eircom should be pushed (hard) by government to roll out broadband services to all exchanges in country. I am amazed at the level of ignorance amongst some people.

Sponge Bob

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Not trolling, and i am not talking about people with no broadband. I am talking about the people who can only use crap broadband services i.e. most of the wireless ones

Jeez you are THICK

Most crap wireless services, eg Clearwire and Ripwave, are only available in URBAN areas. Most wireless services in the sticks ( if available) are OK .

All rural people want is universal 1mbit . If the government wasn't so stupid and managed to organise that much without wrecking the existing WISPs then 'the market' will take care of the rest.

Then again the government will not stop rubbish like ripwave and clearwire and 3 being sold to urban people as broadband...when its not.

By now there SHOULD have been a big gap between urban and rural people EVEN if we had universal 1mbit ...when we do not. Urban poeple in big cities should have 20 mbit+ quite commonly, today ...and don't

These are a myriad of failures , those of policy and decency and vision for starters

jor el

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Then he complains, all i am saying is what does he expect?

He should expect a decent broadband service would be available no matter where he lives, and at a decent price. Complaints about broadband in Ireland are not limited to people living outside the major cities. The worst of all the wireless services (Clearwire and Ripwave) are ONLY available in cities, and arguably the best broadband in the country is only available in Dungarvan. 100% availability, no limitations, very high speed and not overly expensive. Everyone in Ireland should expect such a service, but the majority of us have no hope of getting anywhere near it.

BostonB

Fighting Irish wrote: »

OK guys maybe you took me up wrong, i think every should have the best possible BB but don't live out in the country and then moan about BB being so bad

I'm in dublin, and can't get decent BB. So you're talking rubbish.

The issue isn't location. Its that we have have poor service providers, one of which has a monopoly and the govt won't get the finger out to sort it out. We live in a small (in area) country but with a lot of wealth. If other poorer countries of a similar size but less wealth can sort out decent broadband across the majority of the their countries there's no excuse for Ireland.

Firetrap

So the OP thinks that only urban areas (preferably where he lives) deserve to have top drawer broadband and the hicks out the country can go hang because they're only stupid boggers and it's their fault for not living in cities. He also obviously believes that it's perfectly acceptable for broadband in Ireland to be half-heartedly implemented, just as long as he has his 3meg connection. His attitude is typical of the half-hearted "shur it'll do" attitude which has plagued this country. The same thinking that decreed that the Luas lines shouldn't join up, that the M50 doesn't need all those lanes etc.

Fighting Irish

Firetrap wrote: »

So the OP thinks that only urban areas (preferably where he lives) deserve to have top drawer broadband and the hicks out the country can go hang because they're only stupid boggers and it's their fault for not living in cities. He also obviously believes that it's perfectly acceptable for broadband in Ireland to be half-heartedly implemented, just as long as he has his 3meg connection. His attitude is typical of the half-hearted "shur it'll do" attitude which has plagued this country. The same thinking that decreed that the Luas lines shouldn't join up, that the M50 doesn't need all those lanes etc.

I said i don't feel sorry for them, i'd be delighted if the whole country had 8mb lines 2moro but it ain't gonna happen.
Every word you said above has absolutely nothing to do with what i said.

Whats with boards members thinking they can just make **** up on the spot?

jor el

OK, what you're saying is that people give up the right to expect certain services based on where they live. By that regard, should people in towns and cities still expect electricity? Most of it is not generated inside towns or cities so why should they expect it? What about bin collections? There are no incinerators or land fills so I guess they should just build them. Same goes for running water.

What about people who don't choose to live in the countryside, like farmers? I guess they could move to the city centre, but it might present a bit of trouble trying to find 40 acres of grazing land.

Your argument, or what little you've put forward, is ignorant and trollish. You've yet to say anything to convince me of why people who live in the countryside shouldn't expect decent broadband. Your analogy of it being like expecting a Tesco next door is also rubbish. Most people who choose to live outside of towns and cities do so exactly because there won't be shopping centres beside them. Besides which, you can always drive to the shops, if you've no broadband then you can't exactly nip down the road to buy it.

Fallschirmjager

what i find desperately sad that in the 21 century a citizen of this republic....thinks if you are not in a city you can pretty much go **** yourself.

we have a chance here, a unique one in history to revitalise the countryside and reduce pressure on cities and infrastructure by supplying speeds in BB so we all win...and yet what do we have? the same old tired city versus countryside arguement dressed in the new clothes of internet speed....we are talking basic access to information here for every citizen, how can you think someone in a remote location is not entitled to that? And spare me the old 'sure they have dialup?' -- if you need fast speeds what make you suppose i dont ? or that i am somehow less entitled to it then you?

BB is as vital as water, electricity...with a bit for foresight we could energise a nation, but you are falling for the oldest trick in the book called divide and conquer...BB in Ireland is asking people to look inward and adopt a me, myself and I approach. What we need to do is resist that temptation...

just my tuppence worth...

thebman

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I said i don't feel sorry for them, i'd be delighted if the whole country had 8mb lines 2moro but it ain't gonna happen.
Every word you said above has absolutely nothing to do with what i said.

Whats with boards members thinking they can just make **** up on the spot?

I like how you how replied to this but ignored all the posts absolutely slamming your idiotic point of view.

Classic troll behaviour

You don't see old school trolling like this very much. Most people have moved on from it.

Blaster99

stepbar wrote: »

Thank god you're not in charge of Eircon. Do you really think you are subsidising rural Ireland? What a retarted view.

I know that I'm subsidising rural Ireland. Very few counties in Ireland contribute more in taxation than they cost to run. Eircom's universal service obligation is much the same. My line rental is subsidising the many less efficient rural installations out there so those complaining about paying line rental while not receiving broadband, are probably not getting such a rough deal after all.

In the meantime, eircom is under increasing competitive pressure from competitors that can cherry pick the most lucrative and always urban areas. It seems quite reasonable that eircom should in term target those same lucrative areas and not worry about the wireless bit players that fight for the odd rural customer.

paulm17781

It costs a lot more to bring utilities to one off houses than it does to a city. Ban one off housing (create sustainable rural development) and a lot of the excuses would disappear.