Running CAT6 Through House...

WetDaddy

So, my fiancée & I will be buying our first home (hopefully over the next few weeks). One place in particular that we are looking at is an old house which will require some "updating", shall we say!

My plan is to elect a room in the house / use the stone shed out the back as a comms room. It'll house my switch, router, modem, possibly a 1u server of some kind, a NAS more than likely, etc. I plan to run Cat6 from this room to various other rooms in the house (I'll probably throw a wireless access point somewhere in the centre of the house for convenience) and terminate them with patch panels.

Apart from that, I don't have any other plans in place, so I'm looking for suggestions. One thing I have in mind is to run the cable *behind* the skirting boards (which we'll probably replace), since it would be fairly neat that way. I was also planning on only a few ports around the house, not a lot. If it's very easy, I'll put ports in everywhere I can.

Has anyone done something similar to this? Is it difficult to do neatly? Would it be worthwhile getting someone to do it / bundle it in with some other job they are doing? Should I consider wiring the rooms for phones in a similar fashion or using CAT6 for a phone system (Asterix, etc.)?

Thanks in advance!

coldfeet

Its an easy enough job but time consuming, if you've the time I'd do it yourself, there's also a good sence of achievment when you get it sorted.

Personal I'd run the cable under carpets (if your laying carpet) tight against the wall, easier to access if ever a problem or you wanna move points. If its a 2 story house you could consider getting outdoor cable and running it up the outside of the house to the top floor. As for phones just run normal 2 or 4 pair cable, no need for the expense of cat 6. Are you just getting 1 analogue phone line?

Main thing is just try paln it, get a good idea where you want everything before you start, otherwise you'll get buried in cable.

FusionNet

Hiya,

To get someone to do it is the best option but you'll pay between 50 and a 100 an hour for a company like ours. That will add up very quickly. So ya I'd suggest getting someone who knows their stuff to have a look at the job for, give you advice on how to run the cables (that'll cost you one hours labour) Then run the cables yourself. Maybe then get the pro to just terminate the cables for you.

I'd personally run cat6 (unshielded only) to all rooms, one for phone and one for data, run those back to a patch panel in your comms room. People dont realise that within 10 years a lot of our home entertainment will be runing over home media servers and the half a million houses that have been built over the last decade are not ready for the future and thats a shame.

If you need any advice or more help keep in touch.

Capt'n Midnight

coldfeet wrote:

As for phones just run normal 2 or 4 pair cable, no need for the expense of cat 6. Are you just getting 1 analogue phone line?

I'd reckon you should do it with Cat 5E , it's a lot cheaper and unless the connectors and sockets and the way you twist the cables isn't done per CAT 6 then it's a waste installing CAT 6 at the moment. If you could lay ducting with generous curves andwith builders string then you could pull through replacement cable in a few years time.

FusionNet

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I'd reckon you should do it with Cat 5E , it's a lot cheaper and unless the connectors and sockets and the way you twist the cables isn't done per CAT 6 then it's a waste installing CAT 6 at the moment. If you could lay ducting with generous curves andwith builders string then you could pull through replacement cable in a few years time.

Id have to disagree with you to a point. If I was buying a house and I knew Id be there for a good few years Id only run CAT6. Dont get me wrong Im still doing Commercial Cat5e on a daily basis but its so easy to rip a commercial site and install again. Most businesses re-do comms every 5 to 7 years anyways but in a house you have one shot. Cat6 bandwidth is far better than Cat5e and within 5-10 years media centres are going to be standard. Xtra Vision wont give you a DVD you'll just stream it live over high end broadband, and to stream movies and audio without conjestion and lag you need CAT6.

WetDaddy

FusionNet wrote: »

Id have to disagree with you to a point. If I was buying a house and I knew Id be there for a good few years Id only run CAT6. Dont get me wrong Im still doing Commercial Cat5e on a daily basis but its so easy to rip a commercial site and install again. Most businesses re-do comms every 5 to 7 years anyways but in a house you have one shot. Cat6 bandwidth is far better than Cat5e and within 5-10 years media centres are going to be standard. Xtra Vision wont give you a DVD you'll just stream it live over high end broadband, and to stream movies and audio without conjestion and lag you need CAT6.

This is one of the main reasons I want to go with CAT6. It's far more future-proofed and I don't really intend on replacing the cabling any time soon at all. Initially, I'll have a GigE network in the house. But after a number of years, I want the ability to up that (10Gig, perhaps?) if I so desire.

Incidentally, streaming media is one of the chief reasons for this. But this is more so for moving already obtained HD content around the house. I feel that streaming competently compressed (i.e. no bad artifacting / compromises!) HD from the Intertron is still a good bit away. I agree with FusionNet though; it's inevitable!

Thanks for all the posts guys. Please keep them coming if you've any more suggestions. I'll definitely be reprising this thread as I get more info on the house

seamus

I'm not sure what kind of size you're talking about, but it may be an idea to have a switch somewhere within the house - perhaps in the attic, but more ideally in a closet or somewhere out of the way.

The idea being that you don't have X number of cables running from the house to the shed, you only have one from switch to shed. It will also help prevent any cable length issues - the cables won't run in a straight line from socket to shed, so will be longer than you think (although I doubt you'd hit 100m easily).

In a few years if you find yourself using multiple devices in the house with much larger streaming needs (and you have a lot of spare money and patience), you could upgrade the link to the shed to fibre

Watch out for damp in old stone sheds - it might be nice and cool, but your hardware won't thank you!

WetDaddy

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure what kind of size you're talking about, but it may be an idea to have a switch somewhere within the house - perhaps in the attic, but more ideally in a closet or somewhere out of the way.

The idea being that you don't have X number of cables running from the house to the shed, you only have one from switch to shed. It will also help prevent any cable length issues - the cables won't run in a straight line from socket to shed, so will be longer than you think (although I doubt you'd hit 100m easily).

In a few years if you find yourself using multiple devices in the house with much larger streaming needs (and you have a lot of spare money and patience), you could upgrade the link to the shed to fibre

Watch out for damp in old stone sheds - it might be nice and cool, but your hardware won't thank you!

That's a very good idea, Seamus. I'll definitely keep that in mind. If we do buy this particular house, I'd have to assess the best place to keep all the equipment. At the moment, this "shed" I keep mentioning is more of a stone annex than anything else. It's used as a shed though (it has a door in from outside, the lawnmower / tools etc. are kept in there), hence why I keep calling it that

The damp is definitely something I'll be concerned about. I'd have to reconsider my options if it's unavoidable! Worst case scenario, I can always have loud fans and perpetually flickering LEDs nested in the master bedroom, inches away from the headboard. No one will have any problems with that!

Snowbat

CAT6 will get you 55 metres at 10GBASE-T but it doesn't have much scope above that. For higher speeds on copper you'll need the bandwidth and anti-crosstalk properties of CAT7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_7_cable
Researchers in November 2007 proved that it is "definitely possible" to transport 100 gigabits per second over 70 meters of CAT7 cable and they are now working on extending it to 100 m.

WetDaddy

Snowbat wrote: »

CAT6 will get you 55 metres at 10GBASE-T but it doesn't have much scope above that. For higher speeds on copper you'll need the bandwidth and anti-crosstalk properties of CAT7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_7_cable
Researchers in November 2007 proved that it is "definitely possible" to transport 100 gigabits per second over 70 meters of CAT7 cable and they are now working on extending it to 100 m.

Thanks Snowbat. I think the kind of hardware I'll be using over the next number of years is very far away from being 10GBase-T capable though! I couldn't really vindicate the cost of CAT7 because of that.

However, you do have one of the best usernames on Boards. Good work

JohnnieM

If you do insist on using cat6 ( Over kill for a house) For gods sake dont run it under carpets or such like .It does not like being stepped on pulled or manhandled.
The twist is very specific and has to stay that way to maintain the proper bandwith performance etc... I'd run cat5 e two points to every room .. I'd also wire every room for multi room audio that way one patch panel will do the trick..

WetDaddy

JohnnieM wrote: »

If you do insist on using cat6 ( Over kill for a house) For gods sake dont run it under carpets or such like .It does not like being stepped on pulled or manhandled.
The twist is very specific and has to stay that way to maintain the proper bandwith performance etc...

Thanks JohnnieM, I'll keep that in mind. My plan was to either run underneath floorboards (thus keeping it out of people's way) or else run it behind skirting boards. If it winds up being too thick for certain skirting boards, I may consider hugging it along them. I want to try keep it aesthetically pleasing too, if possible.

JohnnieM wrote: »

I'd run cat5 e two points to every room .. I'd also wire every room for multi room audio that way one patch panel will do the trick..

That's a very good point. I've no idea where to start for this though... Do you mean like a SPDIF / Coax cable to each room? Or is there a way to run multi-channel audio over CAT6?

JohnnieM

No not spdif ... it would involve running the cat 5 from a key pad position in each room (eg.beside light switch) back to a central point (comms room) and also running speaker 2 sets of speakers from each room back to the central point.... unfortunatly your build may not be going to this level..ie chasing walls etc etc..

FusionNet

Snowbat wrote: »

CAT6 will get you 55 metres at 10GBASE-T but it doesn't have much scope above that. For higher speeds on copper you'll need the bandwidth and anti-crosstalk properties of CAT7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_7_cable
Researchers in November 2007 proved that it is "definitely possible" to transport 100 gigabits per second over 70 meters of CAT7 cable and they are now working on extending it to 100 m.

I think Cat6 is pushing it CAT 7 is way over kill. Cat 7 isnt finalised yet and to be honest sometimes you can read too much into lab reports. Im sure CAT 6 will provide more than enough bandwidth for domestic. I would guess 90% of commercial sites would pic Cat6 over 7. Cat 6 only got the 568TIA approval (or whatever the code is) to be officially certified, it'll take another 2 to 3 years for cat 7 to get the certification and also we dont even have testers to certify cat7 so when you install it all you would be able to do is certify it to Cat6, you would have no proof what so ever that it would give you 10gb.

As johhnie said avoid under carpets not only for the reason he said but most guys are glueing carpet down now so you can run anything under them. Tell me this is your house a two story, a bungelow or a dormer?

wexfordman

You could lok at something like this either


http://www.irishhomenet.com/

I'm doing an install in Cork at the moment using it, and its going to carry a B&O multiroom system. Very flexible.

Regards,
Wexfordman

BigEejit

With cat6 you need to observe a minimum bending radius above which signal degradation would lower your maximum bandwidth, molex have a good document here. I know from working with fibre the maximum bend radius is the same as if you wound the fibre around a soft drink can and it seems from the document above that the min bend radius in a conduit should be 50mm which is about the same...

Cat6 backboxes tend to be deeper than ordinary ones, buy a sample and give it to whoever is doing the chasing.

How much is a roll of cat6 compared to cat5e these days?

cregser

If I was in your situation I would be tempted to go Cat5e. I recently transfered files between two PC's with GigEthernet NICs directly connected to one another and only got 30% GigEthernet speeds! I was limited by hard disk speed. I've also always found Cat6 much more of a pita to work with. According to this article 1Gig is fine for HD content. Basically, if I was paying someone else I'd go the whole hog with CAT6. If I was doing it myself I'd go easy on myself with Cat5e.

Folex wrote: »

I was also planning on only a few ports around the house, not a lot. If it's very easy, I'll put ports in everywhere I can.

For anywhere that I thought I'd need 2 ports I'd run 4 cables! Even though you don't think you need them you'll be surprised how that can change.

If I was definitely sure I only needed 2 ports I'd still run 4 cables but I'd use a 2 port faceplate and leave the extra cables coiled behind it (getting the 4 port plate when needed). I'd also run a few extra cables to maybe the attic and under the stairs - they could come in handy. Let's say you wanted to put PoE IP camera's at the front and back of your house in the future. Or install an wifi point outside your house so your server could remote control your lawnmower! You don't even have to terminate the extra cables at the patch panel until you need them (be sure to label them!).

JohnnieM wrote: »

it would involve running the cat 5 from a key pad position in each room (eg.beside light switch) back to a central point (comms room) and also running speaker 2 sets of speakers from each room back to the central point....

Two guys in work have cabled speakers in each room to a central amp which is connected to a media server. They use WiFi terminals to control the media server saving on the need for key pads in each room. The WiFi terminal could be something like an Archos with a web browser plugin. The Archos would double up as a portable TV!

FusionNet

How much is a roll of cat6 compared to cat5e these days?[/QUOTE]

To the trade not much, it depends on brand and quality. You can get Cat6 at the same price as cat5e but the cat5e will be high quality and the cat6 will be cheaper stuff. Theres probably about 20 euro in the roll difference.. Can I make one other point to All who read these posts about networks.

NEVER NEVER NEVER install shielded cable into a house or a business unless advised to do so by an IT engineer. Im sick to death of going on to sites where electricians have pulled shielded cable because they think its better.

a) it costs way more, so you end up paying for a stupid sparkys mistake
b) it actually attracts noise not deflect it
c) unless you use shielded patch panels and modules and earth everything shielded cable will cause you problems and give bad bandwidth.

Now sorry for that, but thats been bugging me a long while and if one person reads this and acts on it it'll one better network.

BigEejit

Indeed you would have to be in a horribly noisy environment (EM noise, not noise ....er.... noise ) before using shielded. Also as mentioned, it has to be shielded components end to end and earthed, a lot more expense. And if the last shielded cable I saw was any indication, it is an absolute bastard to pull through conduit or manipulate as it can be quite inflexible.

Loveless

FusionNet wrote: »

NEVER NEVER NEVER install shielded cable into a house or a business unless advised to do so by an IT engineer. Im sick to death of going on to sites where electricians have pulled shielded cable because they think its better.

a) it costs way more, so you end up paying for a stupid sparkys mistake
b) it actually attracts noise not deflect it
c) unless you use shielded patch panels and modules and earth everything shielded cable will cause you problems and give bad bandwidth.

Well as an IT engineer, we've always done shielded networks. But then again we use shielded face plates, shielded Krone patch panels, earthed, wall-mounted cable cabinet with full cable test afterwards. Proper job like.

A lot of electricians used to make a balls of running CAT5 cable, like running it over those office lights in suspended ceilings. They always seem to go for the cheapest cable possible with the crappiest face plates.


Yeah, there are some shocking bad networks out there. One time I was replacing an unshielded patch panel on someone else's site (the unshielded cables were running underground to another office) and as I was taking the cables out of the panel I noticed that my hands were wet. So I was wondering where the water was coming from and as I left the bunch of cables down on the ground I saw the water was running through the cables from outside!

FusionNet

I left the bunch of cables down on the ground I saw the water was running through the cables from outside![/QUOTE]


This is a serious problem and although not life endangering it can be very costly to replace. Also with POE becoming a more common product on sites not water in your cables is even more of an issue. I use shielded as little as possible but most of my work is light commercial. I think we should set up a group to explain to electricians that Networks are just slightly different to pulling in 2.5 twin and earth, you cant pull it in with a tractor, you cant run it over a generator and no you really really shouldnt stuff it into the same conduit as lights on dimmers!!!! I think it would be falling on deaf ears..

JDxtra

Cat 5E is well able to stream HD content around the home. Sure, within 5/10 years wireless will probably be so good that most people won't need networking wires at all in the home.

So if a Cat6 install is much more expensive, I wouldn't bother...

FusionNet

JDxtra wrote: »

Cat 5E is well able to stream HD content around the home. Sure, within 5/10 years wireless will probably be so good that most people won't need networking wires at all in the home.

So if a Cat6 install is much more expensive, I wouldn't bother...

JD I have to disagree, a bad cat 5e install is not capable of HD Streaming, a good Cat6 is but it all depends on the cable, hardware, engineer. Id stay away from wireless, ya its grand for internet and withing the next few years it'l be 100mb but wireless will never be as relaible or as fast as cable, mark my words, not for at least 15 years...

Cable install can be guaranteed, wireless can not, end of story. I didnt pay 5 grand for a wireless certifyer, I did for a wired one, do the math!!!

JDxtra

But a full HD quality video signal encoded in MPEG4 only takes 20,000 kbit/s to stream. So, surely a good CAT5E install is sufficient...

seamus

Yeah, but what if you're streaming this to two rooms at the same time and also playing music in another two rooms?

You really have to future proof in a home because you can't go ripping the cable out in five years' time.

We haven't nearly seen the full extent to which digital media (film, tv and music) will become the "killer app" for computers and networks over the next 15 years, so giving yourself the most bandwidth that you can in this case is the best option.

pablo21

I'm in the process of renovating my house (Strip'd to a shell) and I've gotten an electrician to pull cat 6 to everywhere in the house and outside also. My plan is to use a media centre server at the core with media centre extenders in the various points throughout the house. Everything terminates in a cabinet in a study room i.e. Security DVR, Media Centre, Alarm system, phone system etc etc. I've just been granted planning for the extension so work will start in earnest in the next two to three weeks!
I'd love any feedback or suggestions you guys may have. Money isnt a factor although I'm not going to be silly so I'd love to hear some of your ideas!

FusionNet

. Money isnt a factor although I'm not going to be silly so I'd love to hear some of your ideas![/QUOTE]


Hi Pablo,

Congrats on the build, sound like it will be mans heaven!! By the sounds of it you seem to have all things considered. My areas of speciality are CCTV, Telephone systems and Networks so if theres any advice you need just shout, as for suggestions, all Ill say is run plenty of cable and dont rely too much on wi-fi..

pablo21

FusionNet wrote: »

. Money isnt a factor although I'm not going to be silly so I'd love to hear some of your ideas!

Hi Pablo,

Congrats on the build, sound like it will be mans heaven!! By the sounds of it you seem to have all things considered. My areas of speciality are CCTV, Telephone systems and Networks so if theres any advice you need just shout, as for suggestions, all Ill say is run plenty of cable and dont rely too much on wi-fi..[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that!