Arw selection/training

Quis Separabit

Babybing wrote: »

You dont have to have served in the regulars and 23 is a reserve force as well. 22 is the proper regiment. The SBS is different and you have to have served for that.

The official site is here http://www.army.mod.uk/uksf/special_forces_soldier_reserve_/sas/index.htm



As for time off work, I imagine that if you were dedicated enough to get to that stage it would be pretty high up on your priority list and you would manage somehow.

If you attempt to join the SAS(R) with no previous military experience your application will not be accepted.

"'L' Detachment, formerly 'R' Squadron, is a TA unit comprising former Regular soldiers and assigned to 22 SAS for the provision of casualty replacements. Optionally it also had its own role in the event of limited or general war."


21 and 23 SAS are also the "proper" SAS, some serving are ex 22 SAS, it simply does not have the same role as 22 SAS. It has the same test week, but simply longer selection.

If you think someone with no military experience can join 21 or 23 SAS with no military experience and can become a badged SAS member by attending 1 night a week, you don't have a clue. Members are ex 22 SAS and those who have recently left the fulltime army, many have previously passed the all arms Parachute course as Signallers, infantrymen, enginerers etc.



Special Air Service (Reserve) - (SAS(R))

HISTORY

21 and 23 SAS (R) were formed in 1947 and 1959 respectively, and together with the SBS (R) and 63 (SAS) Signals Sqn have evolved into the Reserve (R) Component of the United Kingdom’s Special Forces (UKSF) Group.
MISSION

UKSF (R) is to deliver a Tier 2 SF capability in order to provide depth to the UKSF group, conducting worldwide operations in support of the Government’s Foreign Security and Defence Policies.
ROLE

The role of SAS (R) is to provide depth to the UKSF group through the provision of:

* Individual and collective augmentation to the regular component of UKSF.
* Standalone elements up to task group (Regimental) level focused on Support and Influence (S&I) operations to assist conflict stabilisation.

SF (R) CAPABILITY

SF (R) operations require the skill sets and equipment to operate beyond the range and capability of conventional forces. The conduct of SF (R) operations predominantly focuses on Support and Influence and the provision of ground truth to achieve effect in conflict resolution. They require sufficient endurance, field craft, surveillance, communications, mobility and ‘life skills’ to work in isolation, whilst remaining in sync with multi agency effect across the spectrum of conflict.
OPERATIONS

Whilst the MOD does not comment on the specifics of Special Forces operations, SAS (R) have made a significant contribution to recent operational deployments.
AM I ELIGIBLE FOR SERVICE AS AN SAS(R) OPERATOR?

SAS (R) accepts male volunteers aged 34 and below from any part of the Regular or Reserve Armed Forces (RN, RM, Army and RAF). Applicants with no previous military experience may apply, but must be aged 32 or below and may be required to attend the Combat Infantry Course (CIC) prior to attempting Selection.

In line with current MOD policy regarding the employment of women in the Armed Services, service as an operator with SAS(R) is restricted to men.
SELECTION

SAS (R) Selection and training takes 12 months with two intakes per year. The components of the course are as follows:

1. APTITUDE

Candidates’ physical and mental endurance are tested, as well as their ability to navigate by day and night over arduous terrain. It culminates with ‘Endurance’ – a 64km march over the Brecon Beacons carrying over 60lbs. Aptitude comprises:

* 9 x weekends of endurance training.
* 1 x week endurance training in the Brecon Beacons.
* 1 x week assessment (Test Week) in the Beacons.

2. STANDARD OPERATIONAL PROCEDURE (SOP) TRAINING

Instruction in UKSF SOP’S and tactics comprises of:

* 9 x weekends patrol SOP’s including surveillance and reconnaissance.
* 1 x week live firing including patrol contact drills and Tp offensive action.
* 1 x 9 day battle camp comprising:
* Live firing assessment.
* Field training exercise to test the skills learned throughout Selection. This culminates in Conduct after Capture (CAC).

On successful completion of this training, ranks are badged as SAS(R) and are fit for appointment.

CONTINUATION TRAINING

Candidates who successfully complete Selection will enter a period of probation and must complete the following courses to be fit for mobilisation.

* Basic Parachute Course.
* SF Communications Course....to regular army signaller standard.
* Main Training Period.

When fit for mobilisation ranks will maintain currency by completion of UKSF Military Annual training Tests (MATTs) and attendance on one or more Main Training Periods around the Globe. In addition, ranks who are fit for mobilisation may gain one or more of the following additional qualifications:

* Patrol Medics
* Enhanced Surveillance and Reconnaissance
* Languages
* Emergency Close Air Support
* Support Weapons
* Close Protection

SUMMARY

SAS (R) provides an opportunity for soldiers to work within a unique, independent organization which takes pride in its heritage, role and professionalism. Service is physically and intellectually challenging, but the rewards are significant. In addition to a strong sense of purpose in embracing the challenges of a complex world, SAS (R) provides challenge and adventure with the additional benefit of Special Forces pay rates. Whilst the Regiment contributes to UKSF operational capability in its own right, it also provides an excellent grounding for those who aspire to serve with the Regular UKSF.

Rew

Babybing wrote: »

Love to get a glimpse of that.

Just a small silly question...what does PT stand for? I see it everywhere but I never knew what it meant (Im guessing physical training?)

PT is physical training. The training schedule mentioned was published in An Cosintor, have it here some where.

Running Bing

Rew wrote: »

PT is physical training. The training schedule mentioned was published in An Cosintor, have it here some where.

Is it this months issue Rew?


If not can you remember which issue it was? perhaps I could get a back issue?

Running Bing

Quis Separabit wrote: »

If you attempt to join the SAS(R) with no previous military experience your application will not be accepted.


21 and 23 SAS are also the "proper" SAS, some serving are ex 22 SAS, it simply does not have the same role as 22 SAS. It has the same test week.



Special Air Service (Reserve) - (SAS(R))

HISTORY

21 and 23 SAS (R) were formed in 1947 and 1959 respectively, and together with the SBS (R) and 63 (SAS) Signals Sqn have evolved into the Reserve (R) Component of the United Kingdom’s Special Forces (UKSF) Group.
MISSION

UKSF (R) is to deliver a Tier 2 SF capability in order to provide depth to the UKSF group, conducting worldwide operations in support of the Government’s Foreign Security and Defence Policies.
ROLE

The role of SAS (R) is to provide depth to the UKSF group through the provision of:

* Individual and collective augmentation to the regular component of UKSF.
* Standalone elements up to task group (Regimental) level focused on Support and Influence (S&I) operations to assist conflict stabilisation.

SF (R) CAPABILITY

SF (R) operations require the skill sets and equipment to operate beyond the range and capability of conventional forces. The conduct of SF (R) operations predominantly focuses on Support and Influence and the provision of ground truth to achieve effect in conflict resolution. They require sufficient endurance, field craft, surveillance, communications, mobility and ‘life skills’ to work in isolation, whilst remaining in sync with multi agency effect across the spectrum of conflict.
OPERATIONS

Whilst the MOD does not comment on the specifics of Special Forces operations, SAS (R) have made a significant contribution to recent operational deployments.
AM I ELIGIBLE FOR SERVICE AS AN SAS(R) OPERATOR?

SAS (R) accepts male volunteers aged 34 and below from any part of the Regular or Reserve Armed Forces (RN, RM, Army and RAF). Applicants with no previous military experience may apply, but must be aged 32 or below and may be required to attend the Combat Infantry Course (CIC) prior to attempting Selection.

In line with current MOD policy regarding the employment of women in the Armed Services, service as an operator with SAS(R) is restricted to men.
SELECTION

SAS (R) Selection and training takes 12 months with two intakes per year. The components of the course are as follows:

1. APTITUDE

Candidates’ physical and mental endurance are tested, as well as their ability to navigate by day and night over arduous terrain. It culminates with ‘Endurance’ – a 64km march over the Brecon Beacons carrying over 60lbs. Aptitude comprises:

* 9 x weekends of endurance training.
* 1 x week endurance training in the Brecon Beacons.
* 1 x week assessment (Test Week) in the Beacons.

2. STANDARD OPERATIONAL PROCEDURE (SOP) TRAINING

Instruction in UKSF SOP’S and tactics comprises of:

* 9 x weekends patrol SOP’s including surveillance and reconnaissance.
* 1 x week live firing including patrol contact drills and Tp offensive action.
* 1 x 9 day battle camp comprising:
* Live firing assessment.
* Field training exercise to test the skills learned throughout Selection. This culminates in Conduct after Capture (CAC).

On successful completion of this training, ranks are badged as SAS(R) and are fit for appointment.

CONTINUATION TRAINING

Candidates who successfully complete Selection will enter a period of probation and must complete the following courses to be fit for mobilisation.

* Basic Parachute Course.
* SF Communications Course.
* Main Training Period.

When fit for mobilisation ranks will maintain currency by completion of UKSF Military Annual training Tests (MATTs) and attendance on one or more Main Training Periods around the Globe. In addition, ranks who are fit for mobilisation may gain one or more of the following additional qualifications:

* Patrol Medics
* Enhanced Surveillance and Reconnaissance
* Languages
* Emergency Close Air Support
* Support Weapons
* Close Protection

SUMMARY

SAS (R) provides an opportunity for soldiers to work within a unique, independent organization which takes pride in its heritage, role and professionalism. Service is physically and intellectually challenging, but the rewards are significant. In addition to a strong sense of purpose in embracing the challenges of a complex world, SAS (R) provides challenge and adventure with the additional benefit of Special Forces pay rates. Whilst the Regiment contributes to UKSF operational capability in its own right, it also provides an excellent grounding for those who aspire to serve with the Regular UKSF.

21 and 23 SAS are also the "proper" SAS, some serving are ex 22 SAS, it simply does not have the same role as 22 SAS.

I have no knowledge of it besides what I have read on that site and in the Ballinger book and I may be interpeting that wrong but it seems pretty clear cut.


Also I know 21 and 23 are proper SAS as well I was just saying that to distingush them from 22 given they are both reserve forces.

Quis Separabit

As you state, you have no knowlege of it.

I know for a fact applicants are only accepted with previous military experience, those without are recommended and talked into joining other units.

By proper "SAS" I presume you mean regular.

Since 9/11 SAS (R) has been operating in a virtually fulltime role anyway.


They undergo the the same test week and training as the regular SAS, they are simply reserves.

As I stated their role is ISTAR, (and since 9/11 a CT role) which was the SAS's original role, before CRW, CT etc.


(BTW, its not me who derailed the thread).

Running Bing

Quis Separabit wrote: »

As you state, you have no knowlege of it.

By proper "SAS" I presume you mean regular.

Since 9/11 SAS (R) has been operating in a virtual fulltime role anyway.

They undergo the the same test week and training as the regular SAS, they are simply reserves.

As I satated their role is ISTAR, which was the SAS's original role, before CRW, CT etc.

Isnt that everything I just said?

I assume you do have first hand experience yourself then Quis?

Quis Separabit

Babybing wrote: »

Isnt that everything I just said?

I assume you do have first hand experience yourself then Quis?

No, but I know some who have.

Many SAS members have previous ISTAR experience with the units they served with. The most common one being the Parachute Regiment/SFSG.

Quis Separabit

To get the discussion back on track,yes, the ARW wing are a professional SFs unit, who undergo ardouous selection and training,agreed.

Its just a pity the ARW and IA in general don't operate as part of NATO and alongside British and other NATO forces, thats my opinion.

I would like to see the ARW operate with the SFSG(1Para)/SAS/SBS/SRR in places like Afghanistan.

Maybe some IA units if part of NATO, operating with 16 Para AA and other units.


(Imagine the protests lol).


I would also like to see the Irish Army send over perhaps 1 company a year to undertake P coy/Para selection, on an exchange basis as the Yanks and others have done in the past.

And perhaps 1 company for the all arms commando course.

The ARW doing exchanges with the SAS/SAS/SFSG/SRR, Royal Marines mountain and arctic warfare cadre etc.

twinytwo

Quis Separabit wrote: »

To get the discussion back on track,yes, the ARW wing are a professional SFs unit, who undergo ardouous selection and training,agreed.

Its just a pity the ARW and IA in general don't operate as part of NATO and alongside British and other NATO forces, thats my opinion.

I would like to see the ARW operate with the SFSG(1Para)/SAS/SBS/SRR in places like Afghanistan.

Maybe some IA units if part of NATO, operating with 16 Para AA and other units.


(Imagine the protests lol).


I would also like to see the Irish Army send over perhaps 1 company a year to undertake P coy/Para selection, on an exchange basis as the Yanks and others have done in the past.

And perhaps 1 company for the all arms commando course.

The ARW doing exchanges with the SAS/SAS/SFSG/SRR, Royal Marines mountain and arctic warfare cadre etc.

Fact is Ireland is netural as we all no..For us to deploy with NATO would cause alot more trouble than its worth... Why do u think our troops are respected all over the world.. cause we dont go getting involved in other countries business.

twinytwo

Ronan Devitt wrote: »

Here is a story from Thursdays Evening Herald...

BOOM!!!! .. The whole truck shuddered as the explosion detonated.
A second later the rattle of automatic fire deafened me as we all dived from the vehicle and frantically returned fire in the general direction of the enemy ambush while we looked for cover in an attempt to form a fire base.

BOOM!!! .. I felt the shockwave of the next explosion through my chest, followed seconds later by a wave of heat. With my head spinning I dived for cover and let off a blast of automatic.
By this stage one of my fellow students had taken control of the situation and had a baseline formed. Straight away we all knew what to do and like clockwork our contact drills kicked in. My heart was pounding as we went into all-round cover and I roared for more ammo.

I was cold, wet, tired and hungry and all I had to look forward to was an all night forced march over some of the worst mountains in Wicklow with the weight of a small person on my back. Yet, to tell the truth, I wouldn’t have wanted to be anywhere else in the world as I knew I was within days of passing Army Ranger Wing (ARW) Selection.

I’m known as “Mono” and I’m 26 years old. I’ve been in the Defence Forces for five years and come from an infantry background. In March last year I passed selection course “Oscar One”, a small part of which I described at the start of this article. Selection was followed immediately by a five-month skills course. Since September, I have served as an assault team member and I’m currently forming up for deployment to Chad with the Rangers.

My interest in the Rangers started in my teens, when I first heard about the unit and has grown ever since. In my four years in the infantry I researched and acquired as much information as I could from people who were on selection and from the unit itself.
I was very fortunate in the fact that my previous unit was very encouraging when it comes to soldiering and also my section commander in recruit training was an ex-Ranger.

These, and many other factors, fuelled my determination to join. After failing at my first attempt to pass selection, due to injury. I started training straight away for my second shot at it. I had learned from the first course and I concentrated mostly on running, wearing kit of varying weights and spending time in the hills carrying heavy backpacks, starting off at low intensity, as my priority was to stay injury free.

There is an excellent training programme available from the Rangers before the course that can easily be adapted to suit the individual. Sleeping, resting and especially, eating, are very important during this phase of intense training and although it can be difficult to put on body weight, I achieved it through eating huge amounts of proteins, complex carbohydrates and healthy fats, which was important as I lost almost a stone during the course.

The night before selection began I was as nervous as hell and I remember frantically checking over every piece of my kit, no matter how small. I dragged everything out of my pack and renumbered everything, down to socks and the brushes in my rifle cleaning kit. I double-checked that all my spare warm gear and clothes, especially my sleeping bag, were sealed in waterproof bags.

I knew from previous courses that if your sleeping bag gets wet, you’ll find yourself in an unfortunate situation, to say the least! Although it may sound “soft” to some, one of the most valuable items I bought was Neutrogena hand cream which I used anytime I got a second, because when your hands are constantly wet and cold they can crack and are prone to cuts and infections, which can make the simplest of tasks very difficult.

As far as mental training and attitude are concerned, everybody has their own reasons for wanting to be a Ranger. One of the main reasons for me, the second time round, was that I had failed on my first attempt and it wasn’t going to happen again. No matter what your reason is, it should be rock solid in your head and something you can fall back on when you are cold, wet and tired.

Forty nervous looking soldiers turned up for “Oscar One” on a Friday night and exchanged small talk before the main event kicked off. I’m sorry I didn’t get to know all of them as only 10 of us finished; three officers, four corporals and three privates. No matter how much I suffered on selection the feeling of marching through the gates, with the whole unit clapping and cheering, was worth it a million times over. I passed the course.

The successful officers returned to their units proudly displaying the coveted “Fiannoglach flash”, while the remaining seven of us, joined by another guy remained to face the great unknown, the skills course. The skills course was a definite eye-opener, containing some of the hardest, yet most rewarding things I’d ever been part of. At the end of the course in September only four remained to receive the precious “Green Beret”.

Since I became a fully fledged member of the Rangers, things have been intense. The first week involved parachute packing and jump training, where we learned the techniques and mechanics of being flung out of a helicopter, and prepared ourselves to do our five mandatory unit jumps. By the end of that week the Chad mission was confirmed and, on my second week, the unit went straight into overseas training. Language training, combat PT and weapon skills were the flavour of the day for the rest of the unit, while the new guys were involved in driving courses and weapons courses. Tactical training was also a priority and we did a week of live fire training in the Glen of Imaal. This gave me a chance to work with my new team and learn all the new techniques I’d need to adapt to work in this new environment.

Now I can’t wait to deploy to Chad with my new unit.Since I’ve joined the Rangers I’ve been constantly busy and constantly learning, but the rewards are endless. No matter how tough and challenging the training, the end result is worth a thousandtimes over.

This article appears in the current edition of An Cosantoir, the Defence Forces Magazine.

I had to type it out myself so theres probably mistakes:)

Thanks for that ronan

Hagar

Quis Seperabit wrote:

Its just a pity the ARW and IA in general don't operate as part of NATO and alongside British and other NATO forces, thats my opinion.

I suspect our neutrality has less to do with not being in NATO than the political situation vis a vis Northern Ireland. Even if there was a United Ireland by consent it will be some time before the IDF and the BA can lie down together in the same trench facing a common enemy and honestly consider themselves brothers-in-arms. The trust/respect from both sides simply won't be there for a long time to come.

In the meantime our so-called neutrality is going to be a stumbling block for the training of the ARW. We can't become the best working in isolation, we need to learn from those who already have the knowledge and the only way to do that is by training with them.




My personal opinion not a mod opinion.

Quis Separabit

twinytwo wrote: »

Fact is Ireland is netural as we all no..For us to deploy with NATO would cause alot more trouble than its worth... Why do u think our troops are respected all over the world.. cause we dont go getting involved in other countries business.

(Reply to Hagar)
The Irish army have served alongside UK forces on UN missions, including Bosnia, aer corps members have been sent to the UK for training courses.

The Irish army shoots at Bisley, including in the past winning events, and the EU Nordic battle group is under joint British command.

The claims of hostility from UK forces to the defence forces or the Republic in general are a myth.put out by those with a political agenda, I think most would love to see what they can do, such is the competitive nature of the BA.



(Reply to above twinytwo)
So France, Britain and others whos forces are NATO members and who also take part on UN missions don't get any respect ?

I don't think the Muslims were to bothered when they tried to kill Irish troops with an IED the other week in Palestine.

Anyway, you don't have to become a full member and deployment is at the discretion of the individual member country.

If the republic joined to it get some serious hardware.

The reality is for the past 50 years the republic has been unofficially and strategically defended by NATO as its NATOs western flank,mostly via the Royal Navy and RAF.

The neurality thing is not reality, in the cold war, and before that WWII, the territory of the republic was under the unofficial protection of Britain and later NATO.

minidazzler

Quis Separabit wrote: »

(Reply to above twinytwo)
So France, Britain and others whos forces are NATO members and who also take part on UN missions don't get any respect ?

I don't think the Muslims were to bothered when they tried to kill Irish troops with an IED the other week in Palestine.

I respect how clean france keep their white flags (joking)

and

I dont the muslims were specifically aiming for Irish Soldiers. They were aiming at UN troops. I find there to be a difference when on UN missions.
Sounds stupid I know but still there is a difference between going into a country as an Irish Soldier and going into a country as a UN soldier.

Ronan Raver77

minidazzler wrote: »

I respect how clean france keep their white flags (joking)

and

I dont the muslims were specifically aiming for Irish Soldiers. They were aiming at UN troops. I find there to be a difference when on UN missions.
Sounds stupid I know but still there is a difference between going into a country as an Irish Soldier and going into a country as a UN soldier.

Eh your point is a bit questionable!!!!
Are you saying an Irish Soldier on a UN mission is not a target for any mad insurgent/hostile force but the soldiers(IRISH UN SOLDIER) fellow soldiers from a different nation IS....obviously the troops in Chad are under a EUFOR mandate....
Basicly you are saying caus the soldiers are Irish they are bullet proof???? That your opinion????

twinytwo

Ronan Devitt wrote: »

Eh your point is a bit questionable!!!!
Are you saying an Irish Soldier on a UN mission is not a target for any mad insurgent/hostile force but the soldiers(IRISH UN SOLDIER) fellow soldiers from a different nation IS....obviously the troops in Chad are under a EUFOR mandate....
Basicly you are saying caus the soldiers are Irish they are bullet proof???? That your opinion????

Its not that they are bullet proof... like take rebels who are fighting anywhere on the planet if they had a choice to shoot at irish troops or say american troops... i think america wins hands down... like is Kosavo instead of trying to go throught the irish troops mortar rounds were fired over them instead.. Obviously Africa is a whole different ****hole and considering most of the fighting thats going on is caused by guys that cant tell their ass from their elbow the fact that the troops are irish counts for nothing

cp251

As a matter of historical fact. Ireland couldn't join NATO because it was a requirement for NATO members to recognise the current borders as they stood. Impossible at the time because of the Northern Ireland thing. We even tried to set up a separate alliance with the USA at the time. Imagine having US bases in Ireland!

Our so called neutrality is therefore a sham and always was. We are simply non aligned and pick and choose our battles. In practical terms with the changing situation in NI we are free to move on.

Any respect the Irish army has around the world is no different to the respect there is for Danes or Norwegians. Both Nato members but small countries too with little or no colonial baggage.

twinytwo

cp251 wrote: »

As a matter of historical fact. Ireland couldn't join NATO because it was a requirement for NATO members to recognise the current borders as they stood. Impossible at the time because of the Northern Ireland thing. We even tried to set up a separate alliance with the USA at the time. Imagine having US bases in Ireland!

Our so called neutrality is therefore a sham and always was. We are simply non aligned and pick and choose our battles. In practical terms with the changing situation in NI we are free to move on.

Any respect the Irish army has around the world is no different to the respect there is for Danes or Norwegians. Both Nato members but small countries too with little or no colonial baggage.

I really cant see why they would want to put bases in ireland... cept for the fact that our government seems to lick americas ass every chance it gets.. i mean the whole shannon thing was a joke.. They didnt even need to use the airport in the first place. I think America holds a lot more over us than some seem to realise. . .

twinytwo

Quis Separabit wrote: »

(Reply to Hagar)





So France, Britain and others whos forces are NATO members and who also take part on UN missions don't get any respect ?

No.. I mean that Ireland never got involved in anything colonial we have never invaded anyone.. started wars.. surpressed people.. we have never stepped on anyones toes or ****ed anyone over.. as the british, americans,french etc etc have done once or numerous times in history.. The fact thats its UN has nothing to do with it.. A british soldier is a british soldier to them weather he/she wears a blue beret or a red one

Quis Separabit

cp251 wrote: »

As a matter of historical fact. Ireland couldn't join NATO because it was a requirement for NATO members to recognise the current borders as they stood. Impossible at the time because of the Northern Ireland thing. We even tried to set up a separate alliance with the USA at the time. Imagine having US bases in Ireland!

Our so called neutrality is therefore a sham and always was. We are simply non aligned and pick and choose our battles. In practical terms with the changing situation in NI we are free to move on.

Any respect the Irish army has around the world is no different to the respect there is for Danes or Norwegians. Both Nato members but small countries too with little or no colonial baggage.

But Greece and Turkey are in territorial dispute with each other and are both NATO members.

The problem is in the republic is full of left wing high and mighty know it all types, who are anti military, etc, and I say that as an Irish person.

Hagar

Quis Separabit wrote: »

But Greece and Turkey are in territorial dispute with each other and are both NATO members.

To get bases in those countries that close to what was the old USSR NATO would have bent every rule and overlooked anything.

Quis Separabit wrote: »

The problem is in the republic is full of left wing high and mighty know it all types, who are anti military, etc, and I say that as an Irish person.

And as another I disagree. I can't see any basis for that statement.

Quis Separabit

Hagar wrote: »

To get bases in those countries that close to what was the old USSR NATO would have bent every rule and overlooked anything.


And as another I disagree. I can't see any basis for that statement.

If the republic wanted to join NATO it would be allowed to, especially during the cold war, Its the gateway to NATOs westernflank. Infact NATO senior figures are on record during the cold war as stating, Irelands sea and air space was of major stategic importance.

As for the other claim, there is an anti military under current in the republic, especially against Britain, the US and NATO and spending money on defence.

Hagar

Quis Separabit wrote: »

As for the other claim, there is an anti military under current in the republic, especially against Britain, the US and NATO and spending money on defence.

That's not anti-military that's economics, It's very hard to justify spending on military equipment that may never be used in anger when there are so many people ie voters on hospital waiting lists.

Fratton Fred

twinytwo wrote: »

No.. I mean that Ireland never got involved in anything colonial we have never invaded anyone.. started wars.. surpressed people.. we have never stepped on anyones toes or ****ed anyone over.. as the british, americans,french etc etc have done once or numerous times in history.. The fact thats its UN has nothing to do with it.. A british soldier is a british soldier to them weather he/she wears a blue beret or a red one

30 years ago maybe, but the world has changed. Do you really think they teach the history of Ireland in a pakistani madras, all they teach is believers and non believers. Most Muslim fundementalists weren't even born when Bobby Sands was on hunger strike or the Paras were shooting people in Derry. that means nothing to them, all they care about is their own war against the west.

Quis Separabit

Hagar wrote: »

That's not anti-military that's economics, It's very hard to justify spending on military equipment that may never be used in anger when there are so many people ie voters on hospital waiting lists.

This warrants a new thread (world military expenditure).

And why some countries spend less then the republic but have much more hardware.

eroo

twinytwo wrote: »

I really cant see why they would want to put bases in ireland... cept for the fact that our government seems to lick americas ass every chance it gets.. i mean the whole shannon thing was a joke.. They didnt even need to use the airport in the first place. I think America holds a lot more over us than some seem to realise. . .

Well,seeing as US multinationals/corporations have plants here that is quite true.But what do you suggest,we tell US to jog on.That was what I used to believe but fact is,without US investment,our economy(and most economies) would be up **** creek without a paddle!
As for Shannon,you pull out US military flights and Shannon loses millions in contracts.
You plan on joining the DF twinytwo?I'd keep opinions like that to yourself mate if you get in..they might think your another Ed Horgan:eek::p:D

tribulus

Question about the article; why don't the officers go on to do the skills course as well?

twinytwo

eroo wrote: »

Well,seeing as US multinationals/corporations have plants here that is quite true.But what do you suggest,we tell US to jog on.That was what I used to believe but fact is,without US investment,our economy(and most economies) would be up **** creek without a paddle!
As for Shannon,you pull out US military flights and Shannon loses millions in contracts.
You plan on joining the DF twinytwo?I'd keep opinions like that to yourself mate if you get in..they might think your another Ed Horgan:eek::p:D

Ya im thinking bout joining... but i was refering to them transfering prisoners through shannon when there was no real need to..and then having the nerve to turn around and tell customs to **** off and not inspect the plane...I mean its all good having all that money coming in till the fundamentalists decide to start blowing things up becasue we are aiding the americans..

twinytwo

Quis Separabit wrote: »

This warrants a new thread (world military expenditure).

And why some countries spend less then the republic but have much more hardware.

Id say that what ever you can say about the rest of the country when the army buys something its usually good quality stuff... We dont have loads of stuff floating around the place but at least what we do have works and we use it... Unlike the Goverment thats spends millions on stuff we will never use

NoQuarter

tribulus wrote: »

Question about the article; why don't the officers go on to do the skills course as well?

officers if they pass are RTU'd (returned to original unit) where they wait for a position to open up in the unit and then they are called.

Quis Separabit

twinytwo wrote: »

Id say that what ever you can say about the rest of the country when the army buys something its usually good quality stuff... We dont have loads of stuff floating around the place but at least what we do have works and we use it... Unlike the Goverment thats spends millions on stuff we will never use

Good when it was first bought, but, as an example, FV101 Scorpion light tanks were withdrawn many years ago, they have no NBC capability. They are still in use with the IDF.


"The Scorpion has been withdrawn from service in 93 by the British army (the chief reason being that the 76mm gun had no fume extractor and could suffocate the crew if the vehicle was closed down for NBC protection)."


Another example :


Bofors EL-70 40mm Air defence Gun[4]Still in use with the IDF.


The L/60 saw active service with the Royal Navy in the 1982 Falklands War and continued to be used into the 1990s, when it was replaced by modern 20- and 30-mm artillery.


The Canadian Forces also used Bofors on their surface fleet, but removed the guns in the late 1980s when they were considered to be outdated.


......I could go on.


The problem is 22, you keep continually making big claims.

twinytwo

Quis Separabit wrote: »

Good when it was first bought, but, as an example, FV101 Scorpion light tanks were withdrawn many years ago, they have no NBC capability. They are still in use with the IDF.


"The Scorpion has been withdrawn from service in 93 by the British army (the chief reason being that the 76mm gun had no fume extractor and could suffocate the crew if the vehicle was closed down for NBC protection)."


Another example :


Bofors EL-70 40mm Air defence Gun[4]Still in use with the IDF.


The L/60 saw active service with the Royal Navy in the 1982 Falklands War and continued to be used into the 1990s, when it was replaced by modern 20- and 30-mm artillery.


The Canadian Forces also used Bofors on their surface fleet, but removed the guns in the late 1980s when they were considered to be outdated.


......I could go on.


The problem is 22, you keep continually making big claims.

And what is ur point.... just cause we still use it does that mean its not good quality.. tried and tested... and by the way IDF stands Israeli Defence Force....

Quis Separabit

IDF also refers to the Irish defence forces, its alot more accurate then your term, English army.

twinytwo

Quis Separabit wrote: »

IDF also refers to the Irish defence forces, its alot more accurate then your term, English army.

The Irish military is called PDF Permanent Defence Force... This is what the Government,Soldiers and Civilians call it... The PDF is never refered to the IDF by anyone

Hagar

For future reference let's all try to stick to the following to avoid confusion.

PDF = Permanent Defence Force (Ireland)
RDF = Reserve Defence Force (Ireland)
IDF = Isreali Defence Force (Isreal)

Pathfinder

Hagar wrote: »

For future reference let's all try to stick to the following to avoid confusion.

PDF = Permanent Defence Force (Ireland)
RDF = Reserve Defence Force (Ireland)
IDF = Isreali Defence Force (Isreal)

Fair enough, but in the BA it was referred to as to IDF.

twinytwo

Pathfinder wrote: »

Fair enough, but in the BA it was referred to as to IDF.

oh look its Quis Separabit.... wait i mean pathfinder

Hagar

Do I look stupid from over there?

I know exactly who it is. Pathfinder had a seven day ban at the start of Feb which has elapsed.

End of story.

No back seat modding thanks.

biggun

Riddle101 wrote: »

What weapons do the ARW fire? I heard they don't fire the Styer, and are the others

They use a selection.

1) MP5
2) G3 H&K
3) Combination of 9mm & .40 S&W
4) Benelli/Remington shotgun


Mainly they are to become proficient in a variety and selction of modern semi and fully automatic weapons. Ive even seen them use AK, fired on full auto they are a blast to use.

eroo

WTF is up with the ARW wiki page????http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Army_Rangers#Training

''They learn how to make up for the lack of food by eating their dead comrads''

''These men and woman are trained to kill ruthlessly. They kill aribic islamic black and white people.But they learn to do craps in big rivers and also piss on the locals''

Hagar

Not any more it doesn't.

murph226

Riddle101 wrote: »

Thanks for that, i remember seeing one of them with a Hecklar&Kock actually, he was doing guard duty in The Curragh when i was doing my annual camp in the summer but i never thought much of it. I believe the Navy use the MP-5 as well

The I.N.S. have no MP5's unfortunatley bud

Local-womanizer

After the training they also are on 3yr proabition so any messing or misbehaviour they are kicked out in no time,so I have heard.

Also heard they train alot with Delta.If true it must be a good reflection on the ARW if Delta keep on training with them.And many goverments have huge praise for the Rangers and the work they do,even the Americans.

blade796

Local-womanizer wrote: »

After the training they also are on 3yr proabition so any messing or misbehaviour they are kicked out in no time,so I have heard.

Also heard they train alot with Delta.If true it must be a good reflection on the ARW if Delta keep on training with them.And many goverments have huge praise for the Rangers and the work they do,even the Americans.

Yet to see any evidence the ARW train at Fort Bragg, but its possible ARW instructors have gone over on courses.

Local-womanizer

blade796 wrote: »

Yet to see any evidence the ARW train at Fort Bragg, but its possible ARW instructors have gone over on courses.

Yea probaly that.As i said I wasent sure.

SailingSOLDIER

twinytwo wrote: »

Sidearms: Walther PPK
SIG P226
SIG P228

Machine Guns: FN Minimi-Para
FN Mag

Semi Auto: Heckler&Koch MP-5 A3
Heckler&Koch MP-5 SD3
Heckler&Koch MP-5K
Heckler&Koch 53

They do use the Steyr Aug as it is the standard assault weapon for the armed forces. They also use Steyr A3 Carbine.
The Snipers use the Accuracy International .338

they also have access to the following

Bennelli m3 combat shotguns
Ak-47
H&K MP5
H&K G3
M4
Barrett .50 sniper rifles
And much more


Ive seen them with most of these and there is a whole heap more differant armanents they can use depending on situation, country deployed, climate of country, mission at hand etc

SailingSOLDIER

Quis Separabit wrote: »

Where did anyone claim it takes 4 weeks to become a ranger ?

Got the post ?

Its impossible that a unit the size of a company with such limited logistical support and equipment, can be expert in all of the above. Especially when the apart from CRW the main role of the unit is to raise standards in the army and rangers later return to their units.

I am simply stating reality. I am not claiming they are not a special forces unit, just your claim their selection and test week and training is on par with the SAS and Delta etc, which is your claim, infact you stated their selection and training went beyond that of those units.


Post the rest of the cut and paste.

thats strange because the ARW have over the years assisted in the training of SAS and Seal team personnel, they have also been classed as one of the best special forces in the world for perfessionalism and training.
over the last few years the ARW have ranked within the top 5 in the world at the world spec ops competitions

OS119

SailingSOLDIER wrote: »

thats strange because the ARW have over the years assisted in the training of SAS and Seal team personnel, they have also been classed as one of the best special forces in the world for perfessionalism and training.
over the last few years the ARW have ranked within the top 5 in the world at the world spec ops competitions

loath as i am to dabble in the realm of the uber-walt, but exactly what basis have you - or indeed anyone else - for making these claims about the comparable capabilities about the ARW vs other SF units?

it is an absolute fact that you can count on one hand the operations the ARW have conducted in the last ten years, only one of which could by any stretch of the imagination be said to have been conducted against the kind of opponent faced by UK, US, Canadian, German, French, Dutch and a dozen other NATO SF units every week in half a dozen sandy hellholes for the last 7 years.

there is, quite simply, no objective way to compare units which do undertake such operations and those that don't - and given the Irish governments policy regarding the public declaration of all overseas deployments, it is quite simply impossible that either the ARW or other Irish units have conducted either specific operations or campaigns away from the public eye.

you embarass the ARW and Irish forces generally when such statements are made, given that they are palpably untrue and are nothing but nationalistic chest beating.

MacBuster

SailingSOLDIER wrote: »

thats strange because the ARW have over the years assisted in the training of SAS and Seal team personnel, they have also been classed as one of the best special forces in the world for perfessionalism and training.
over the last few years the ARW have ranked within the top 5 in the world at the world spec ops competitions

Cough Cough Walter alert

Local-womanizer

Unless you know for sure,like 100% absoultly positivitly for sure about the ARW and whatever they get up to then you cannot comment on their experiance or how good they are.At the end of the day they could be sitting in Iraq right now,or they could have been the people leading the hostage rescue in Columbia.No one here knows for sure.

They are a special forces unit and their work and abilities are meant to be unknown to the public,even if the public intentions are good that does not change the kind of info released about them.

Every special forces unit in the world is a force to be reckoned with and Iam sure as hell not going to go up to a sf solider and tell him he is crap!

The one thing about the ARW is they keep to themselves and any special forces in the world will tell you that is ideal for them.Look how many ex and current SAS soliders hate the fact there was so much media coverage of them.

Irish_Army01

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Unless you know for sure,like 100% absoultly positivitly for sure about the ARW and whatever they get up to then you cannot comment on their experiance or how good they are.At the end of the day they could be sitting in Iraq right now,or they could have been the people leading the hostage rescue in Columbia.No one here knows for sure.

They are a special forces unit and their work and abilities are meant to be unknown to the public,even if the public intentions are good that does not change the kind of info released about them.

Every special forces unit in the world is a force to be reckoned with and Iam sure as hell not going to go up to a sf solider and tell him he is crap!

The one thing about the ARW is they keep to themselves and any special forces in the world will tell you that is ideal for them.Look how many ex and current SAS soliders hate the fact there was so much media coverage of them.

Ah FFS!! They are not in Iraq!!

They have no agenda or requirement to be there.