What can we do to revive the Irish Lanuage?

Shinji Ikari

topper75 wrote: »

So you have an idea what year all native speakers of Irish will finally just speak English? Ba mhaith liom é a chloisteáil! (I'd like to hear it!)

The jews' example stands as the model. The Irish will get around to it as soon as they get over their greedy spell and realise there is more to life than owning stuff.

Let just hope we don't become a theocracy again. That could easily happen if the economy really goes to ****,especially if the department of education have their stupid way in regards to the cessation of maintenance grants. Lack of education/ignorance+poverty= the ultimate escapist defence mechanism;Religion.

Going back to the original question, TG4 could broadcast Irish lessons for adults at all levels during the "twilight hours", nearly everyone has a video/DVD recorder so they can record and watch at a more convenient time.

TG4 should also put Irish subtitles on English language programmes, for two reasons; principly to help learners see how it would be spoken in Irish and also to help native speaker to "think Irish" when watching the programmes rather than having to "think English". S4C the Welsh channel have welsh subtitles on many of the English language programmes so why can't that be done here?

It's not ramming the language down the throats of the people as TG4 viewers are nearly always supportive of Irish!

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari wrote: »

Lack of education/ignorance+poverty= the ultimate escapist defence mechanism;Religion.

Several middle eastern countries spring to mind...but for slightly different reasons.

Agus

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ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I detect desperate pedantism. There's a giant turtle species that has living specimens, but is extinct for all intents and purposes, as there are no females left.

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<p>Sure. But the reality is that the definition of a dead language is a language that hasn't got any native speakers left / isn't being learned as a native tongue. It is not 'desperate pedantry' - just what the phrase means. 'Dead language' simply does not mean a minoity language or a possibly dying language. Look it up in any dictionary. There are thousands of native Irish speakers left - even if they were all going to die out tomorrow Irish would not be a dead language right now. There are different opiions as to whether Irish is a dying language, but there is no question of it being dead now.</p>

You could say that Irish is dying out in the gaeltacht, but is rapidly growing in popularity in other parts of the country, Belfast for example.

Agus

Deleted User wrote: »

Going back to the original question, TG4 could broadcast Irish lessons for adults at all levels during the "twilight hours", nearly everyone has a video/DVD recorder so they can record and watch at a more convenient time.

TG4 should also put Irish subtitles on English language programmes, for two reasons; principly to help learners see how it would be spoken in Irish and also to help native speaker to "think Irish" when watching the programmes rather than having to "think English". S4C the Welsh channel have welsh subtitles on many of the English language programmes so why can't that be done here?

It's not ramming the language down the throats of the people as TG4 viewers are nearly always supportive of Irish!

I tend to agree that TG4 should have subtitles as Gaeilge on English-language programmes. It would be expensive though but possibly worth it.

anonymous_joe

I went out with a Dutch girl for almost a year, and I always noticed that she had almost perfect English. Much much better than most native speakers.

The problem Irish faces is simple - the vast majority of people learn a language through exposure to its media. For example, a Dutch girl can watch English-language tv, play games in English, listen to music with English lyrics.

One obvious response would be to try and increase the amount of media as Gaeilge we come across in day to day life. Another thing to do would be to bite the bullet and simplify it in certain contexts. As an example the IT and most papers have the odd column in Irish. Now I studied HL for the Leaving, but I wouldn;t have a clue as to what those columns say. So I ignore them.

People in this country are usually bombarded with high quality Irish. EG, political opinions, serious documentaries on TG4 etc all in Irish. And it's too bloody hard for most people to understand.

The other problem is, we don't use it at all, because we use English at home, (usually) and most people's hobbies, etc are all done through English.

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

One obvious response would be to try and increase the amount of media as Gaeilge we come across in day to day life. Another thing to do would be to bite the bullet and simplify it in certain contexts. As an example the IT and most papers have the odd column in Irish. Now I studied HL for the Leaving, but I wouldn;t have a clue as to what those columns say. So I ignore them.

People in this country are usually bombarded with high quality Irish. EG, political opinions, serious documentaries on TG4 etc all in Irish. And it's too bloody hard for most people to understand.

If the "redtops" were to write/translate articles then that may resolve the issue as these papers typically have a reading age of 12 years, whereas the IT and other heavyweight papers assume a more educated audiance who understand a much larger vocabulary.

McArmalite

Deleted User wrote: »

Going back to the original question, TG4 could broadcast Irish lessons for adults at all levels during the "twilight hours", nearly everyone has a video/DVD recorder so they can record and watch at a more convenient time.

TG4 should also put Irish subtitles on English language programmes, for two reasons; principly to help learners see how it would be spoken in Irish and also to help native speaker to "think Irish" when watching the programmes rather than having to "think English". S4C the Welsh channel have welsh subtitles on many of the English language programmes so why can't that be done here?

It's not ramming the language down the throats of the people as TG4 viewers are nearly always supportive of Irish!

I agree learning by thinking in Irish is the way get a proper knowledge of it ( or any other language I'd say ? ), and I don't think how someone chosing to watch TG4 can be described as " ramming the language down the throats of the people " ( as what happened to me and the entire country back when I was a nipper ).

topper75

Subtitling in Irish is a great idea. Is it expensive though? Can anyone enlighten us about typical rates etc.

Agus

topper75 wrote: »

Subtitling in Irish is a great idea. Is it expensive though? Can anyone enlighten us about typical rates etc.

I've found some links related to TG4 subtitling policies

http://www.multilingual-matters.net/cils/007/0155/cils0070155.pdf

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31237494_ITM

http://www.aber.ac.uk/mercator/images/UinsionnMacDubhghaill.pdf

topper75

Thanks for these links.

Again, I am ignorant of how subtitling works, but surely with proper technology, a 25 min programme could be done by translators in 3 to 4 hours.

Think of it - the entire catalogue of all tv programmes ever made (not just English language stuff) are fair game for gaelic subtitles.

As a learning mechanism it would be brilliant. You could readily look up new words in a dictionary when they are spelt on screen, whereas you don't always catch a spoken word quite right in a dubbed programme.

It would also override the dialect issues and be enjoyable by all.

McArmalite

McArmalite wrote: »

don't think how someone chosing to watch TG4 can be described as " ramming the language down the throats of the people "

That's precisly the reason I said TG4 as viewers are already tuned into the language and expect to hear it, if it was done on RTE then the accusation could stand.

byhookorbycrook

Case in point, Carlow is looking for bi-lingual status, Gaelscoil is over 20 yrs old, 30 6th class kids, at least per yr over 20 yrs, secondary school is over ten yrs old, children who did not attend the primary are also attending..so up to 70-80 teenagers with excellent Irish each yr. These children will go forward with a more posiive view of Irish and better ability. Local council trying to be bi-lingual, group of adults meet every month in a local pub to chat in Irish. Families get together regularly to spend the day as Gaeilge, at the local pool, park etc
3rd level College is doing a diplomoa course in Irish,schools are giving night classes to all levels of adults.

Carlow was once considered to be one of the most anglesized(sp??) town in Ireland ..most of the above is due to the driveof one woman, Bríde de Róiste..if Carlow can do it....

ChocolateSauce

topper75 wrote: »

The Irish will get around to it as soon as they get over their greedy spell and realise there is more to life than owning stuff.

But we didn't speak Irish when we owned nothing (1922-1995), so that argument is out.

BrenC

There seems to be a concensus that the way it's taught needs to be changed. People should voice their opinions to their local TD's or make a fuss if there's ever to be anything done about it.

spurious

Part of the Irish language's image problem in recent decades has been its perceived hijacking by political organisations on this island who have no connection whatsoever at all at all with terrorist scum.

maireadmarie

For what it's worth, my husband has always said that if the government were serious about reviving the Irish language, they only had to give tax breaks and other financial inducements to people who would sign-up to speak it in their daily lives, and many would take them up on it.
e.g. pick a small village shop or shops, pay them to speak Irish, give everyone who signed up to speak it when shopping and out-and-about a nice cheque of a few hundred, it wouldn't be long before the self-consciousness would disappear.

WAGS

Hi,
Are there any written references to the Irish language as used in the late 18th and early 19th century?
Is what is being taught and spoken now the same as, similar to or very different from the period mentioned above?

pablomakaveli

In school they don't make enough effort to teach children how to actually speak the language.

instead they have them learning poems or answering questions on stories in irish. with this method the children just look for a sentence with similar text to that in the question and copy that sentence as the answer without learning what the sentence means in the process. they need to completly ditch the poems and stories and focus on conversational irish as well as teaching children to compose stories and essays in irish.

by doing this children will learn how to think in irish and make it easier to pick up the language.

When i see foreign people i know speaking in their native languages it makes me feel a bit ashamed that i am not fluent in mine. i do hope to take a class in irish sometime in the future though.

WAGS

Okay.
How does anyone translate passage in English to Irish as spoken in the late 18th century? Are there dictionary and grammar books for the language in this period?

Johnmb

WAGS wrote: »

Okay.
How does anyone translate passage in English to Irish as spoken in the late 18th century? Are there dictionary and grammar books for the language in this period?

The language is pretty much the same now as it was then. There are differences, much like there are differences between English today and English of the time. There were dictionaries published around that time, so they will be able to give you the specific words in common usage. Structure is the same. Biggest difference will be the script generally used, but that is easy enough to come to terms with once you get used to it.

WAGS

Johnmb wrote: »

The language is pretty much the same now as it was then. There are differences, much like there are differences between English today and English of the time. There were dictionaries published around that time, so they will be able to give you the specific words in common usage. Structure is the same. Biggest difference will be the script generally used, but that is easy enough to come to terms with once you get used to it.

Many thanks for your guidance. I have been able to find many references to the Irish language. I just have to work out which version will work best for the project I am working on. I suspect the modern version would be the easiest understood.

Hookey

Hi, new user. On the Welsh v Irish debate; I learned Welsh at school (long time ago) and I think, unlike Irish, its trivially easy to learn. Bear in mind that Welsh is largely a modern language (it nicks its structure from modern romance languages, especially French, it is after all a Victorian-Welsh-revivalist invention) and tellingly, unlike Gaelic, written Welsh is phonetic, or at least far more so than Gaelic, to the extent that an English speaker can pronounce it properly and be understood fairly easily. One way to make Irish more popular would be to make the written version less wilfully difficult to understand (and I know this will make purists howl, but adaptability is one lesson that should be learned from English). Otherwise it will soon be just another dead language. Like German

milkymoo24

I know this thread is really really old but I am really concerned about our native language aand talks about it being excluded from schools in the future because non-nationals do not want their children to learn it.... Irish people who are passionate and proud of their culture need to stand up and and demand that our public schools primary and secondary ALL be taught in Irish... Its OUR language, ours, we are not british and we shouldnt be forced to be educated in a foriegn language!! Irish first and English second.... this country is on the brink of a movement that will change how we see ireland, so many things will change in the coming years and patriotism should be a major part of that, yes we are part of Europe, but we are not europeans we are irish...

Judgement Day

milkymoo24 wrote: »

I know this thread is really really old but I am really concerned about our native language aand talks about it being excluded from schools in the future because non-nationals do not want their children to learn it.... Irish people who are passionate and proud of their culture need to stand up and and demand that our public schools primary and secondary ALL be taught in Irish... Its OUR language, ours, we are not british and we shouldnt be forced to be educated in a foriegn language!! Irish first and English second.... this country is on the brink of a movement that will change how we see ireland, so many things will change in the coming years and patriotism should be a major part of that, yes we are part of Europe, but we are not europeans we are irish...

Wibbs

milkymoo24 wrote: »

I know this thread is really really old but I am really concerned about our native language aand talks about it being excluded from schools in the future because non-nationals do not want their children to learn it.....

What talks? I've not heard of any such thing. There are more Irish only schools opening up as we speak, so links please to back up your contention.

Irish people who are passionate and proud of their culture need to stand up and and demand that our public schools primary and secondary ALL be taught in Irish... Its OUR language, ours, we are not british and we shouldnt be forced to be educated in a foriegn language!!

Depends what you define as "foreign" for a start. Irish is essentially "foreign" to a large majority of the Irish population, basically because they can't speak it, nor it seems beyond lip service don't particularly wish to(another thread in of itself). Americans, Canadians, Brazilians, Australians, Andeans etc all speak "foreign" languages and all have made them their own to one degree or other. Just like we have. We speak Hiberno English and have enlightened the literary world while doing so.

this country is on the brink of a movement that will change how we see ireland,

Can you expand on this? Another cultural year zero on the cards eh? Yea they always work out. Never gonna happen. It's not in our cultural nature and for that we can be proud and thankful.

yes we are part of Europe, but we are not europeans we are irish..

You know there was a time we weren't so insular. Or at least a time when a large chunk wasn't so insular. When our sphere of influence was spread across Europe. We saw ourselves as people first. Most today still do.