5 year contrception for teens ?

Piste

Lil Kitten wrote: »

You know what else gives you all those above mentioned side effects? PREGNANCY. I know what I'd prefer. Aren't you on depo anyways? And in school? What difference would it make if a hypothetical government gave it to you for free and told you to be on it?

Oh it'd make no difference to me at the moment, but then again I'm in the minority, the majority of people in my year lets say aren't having regular sex, lots arent having sex at all, so why should they be subjected to contraception with these side effects? Also if I broke up with my boyfriend I'd come off contraception, I dont want to be pumping my body full of hormones for no reason. The same goes for girls who arent sexually active. I get on grand on depo, but I'm one of the lucky ones, many girls get horrible side effects. When many girls dont have sex until their late teens, and most will do so responsibly, why should an entire generation have to pay for a few bad apples? It should be entirely voluntary.

ztoical

Lil Kitten wrote: »

What difference would it make if a hypothetical government gave it to you for free and told you to be on it?

I've never taken a hormonal contrception, have looked into it but seeing as I won't take over the counter headache pills not alot of chance of me taking the pill/jab/implant - thats my choice. The government should not have the right to tell me what I can and can't put in my body.

Lil Kitten wrote: »

They give out free condoms all the time in colleges, doesn't make much difference. If so called mature college students aren't using them then what chance do 13 - 17 year olds? Kids can't (generally) use them properly (and are prob drunk and don't remember to use them), would be too embarrassed to get them or be scared of having them found by a parent etc. And how many young fellas use the "I can't feel anything when I have one on" line???

I went to an irish college for fours and one in new york for three and difference in attitude was amazing. I never saw condoms been given out in my college in dublin. Only place I ever see free condoms is in gay bars. The students in new york were far more educated [never thought I'd say that about americans] about STI's and the different options for birth control and had no issues taking openly about and asking people straight up in front of the whole pub when they last got tested.

Lil Kitten wrote: »

I'm all for condom use, but it's just not being done by too many people. Education, free condoms etc.. it's being implemented. Why isn't it working?

Sorry but the education is a joke - I never saw a condom until the first night i had sex - try putting one of those on for first time while drunk and in the dark - my american friends got to do test runs on bananas. Sex education covered babies and how they were born nothing about contraception or STI's, I still met people who tell only gay people can get AIDS so clearly the education part is not working. My mum is a GP and has asked all the secondary schools in her area if she could come in and do a proper family planning talk - even just for 6th class students and was told no by all of them [5 different secondary schools each with over 600 students] cus the parents would complain. If the parents won't let a bloody doctor in to talk to them about sex why would they let the government shot their kids full of drugs? Enough parents already bitch about the MMR jabs for babies.

Why have countries like sweeden and holland such low teen birth rates? could it be cus they have a good sex education program?

Lil Kitten wrote: »

They may get crabs or herpes but a trip to the chemist can clear that up.

There is no treatment that can cure herpes so no trip to the chemist will "clear it up"

Catari Jaguar

ztoical wrote: »

I've never taken a hormonal contraception, have looked into it but seeing as I won't take over the counter headache pills not alot of chance of me taking the pill/jab/implant - thats my choice. The government should not have the right to tell me what I can and can't put in my body.

The same generation who pump themselves full of alcohol, hash, coke, tobacco etc etc etc.

And I dont want to pay taxes for young wans kids and their unmarried mothers allowance and social housing. But I do.

I never saw condoms been given out in my college in dublin.

TCD does and all others with SHAG weeks and sexual health clinics

try putting one of those on for first time while drunk.

hmmm... I think too much of this is what's causing so many crisis pregnancies and STDs

There is no treatment that can cure herpes so no trip to the chemist will "clear it up"

Ah well. Might teach them to keep their legs together next time

BTW, I went to a Loreto school and I got great sex ed. Taught all about contraception. In RE class, of all classes!

ztoical

Lil Kitten wrote: »

And I dont want to pay taxes for young wans kids and their unmarried mothers allowance and social housing. But I do.

so who do you think is going to pay for this jab? and the lawsuits that follow when a girl ends up sick from it or pregnant [the jab isn't 100% effect]

Lil Kitten wrote: »

TCD does and all others with SHAG week

Bully for TCD - no VEC college does and they don't have SHAG week

Lil Kitten wrote: »

hmmm... I think too much of this is what's causing so many crisis pregnancies and STDs

I was 18 when I first had sex and despite my schools wonderful sex education [from a nun] I'd never seen/used a condom -maybe if the sex education had been better that wouldn't have happened. Rather then pumping people full of chemicals how about spending a few less quid on better education. Again the example of other countries that done just that Holland and all the scandanavian countries.

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Ah well. Might teach them to keep their legs together next time

BTW, I went to a Loreto school and I got great sex ed. Taught all about contraception. In RE class, of all classes!

well seeing as you didn't know there was no cure for herepes your sex education couldn't have been that great.

Nevyn

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Doesn't make a much of a difference to level of chicks going into their SU doctors office for morning after pill or an STD check.. EVEN THOUGH condoms and packs are handed around for free there and these people are educated about sex and there are leaflets everywhere during SHAG week and in the clinic etc etc.

It's a microcosm for society.

BTW this symbol :rolleyes: is annoying and retarded.

What's your solution, genius?

Hey for a year I was the Womens Officer in college who gave the safer sex workshops that always turned into basic frickin sex ed classes, cos it is not taugth in secondary schools.

I am the one who over 10 years ago had over 20 of my fellow female students sobbing over me as I sat with them through their pregnancy test and many more while they got their morning after pill and a few that I had to refer to have their options talked over with counselors and so few of them bothered with an STI check despite being exposed.

The thing is not everyone goes to college.

Free condoms in colleges do not help any of the young women in secondary school or who have dropped out of secondary school.

I think contraception and contraceptive visits to the dr should be free for all under 23s and that correct and proper informative sexual education should be
done in secondary school with an opt out of parents don't' want their kids doing certain modules.

The crisis pregnancy agency had a really good program with a dvd for parents on how to talk about such things and with all the fact but it can not be distributed via the majority of school to parents cos they are Christian.

http://www.crisispregnancy.ie/parentresource.html

We should teach teens and adopt the models in sweden and holland where getting pregnant is considered not cool and not using a condom is not cool.

Catari Jaguar

Thaedydal wrote: »

We should teach teens and adopt the models in sweden and holland where getting pregnant is considered not cool and not using a condom is not cool.

Think, what class/ age level is the most likely to get pregnant in Ireland? In the most PC way I can say it, it's teenage scummers that drop out at junior cert anyways and prob live in some knack estate. They 99% of the time will have a medical card and free doctor visits/ contraception/ MAP. They don't care.

They get pregnant because they can, and the state will raise their baby. Nip this in the bud.

I think morning after pill etc should be available in school and condom vending machines should be in toilets. That won't stop this people of that mentality from popping out their sprogs. THEY DON'T CARE.

Sure, all the steps suggested can and probably will help middle class, educated kids to make more informed choices and be more careful (if they have sober sex that is.... doubtful)

You can't just say, ok in X country they don't get pregnant because of XYZ. They also have a completely different social raising and psyche.

Am I all for stopping these wastes of space from spreading their seed and bleeding the country dry? Damn right. So it's not the right thing to do. But man, If I was in power it'd be high on my agenda.

*awaits backlash*

Piste

Fine they can just sterilise all the knacks, leave the normal kids to have their safe fun.



I actually agree it is mainly people of a certain background that get pregnant young, yeah it happens to girls of all socioeconomic backgrounds, but tbh it is mainly the "knacks", but it would be un-PC to sterilise all kids who's parents' income is below a certain level or who are from a certain area.

watna

Thaedydal wrote: »

Cos everyone goes to college and has access to free condoms :rolleyes:

I never got any free condoms in college, except for one with my Trinity Ball ticket one year. Fair enough I used to get my depo for very cheap (€10 instead of the €60 I have to pay now). A friend of mine went to college in Scotland and she used to bring boxes home for us. That's what they should have been doing in college with us, everytime you went to the college nurse/doctor for anything they should have been throwing boxes of condoms for us. My other half is from NZ and he said he used to go to the college health service and the doc/nurse would give him a box of 60 condoms. Everyone else got the same so all the student flats had drawers full of them! Maybe, seeming as they cost so much you should be able to get them free more often and more places.

cuckoo

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Doesn't make a much of a difference to level of chicks going into their SU doctors office for morning after pill or an STD check.. EVEN THOUGH condoms and packs are handed around for free there and these people are educated about sex and there are leaflets everywhere during SHAG week and in the clinic etc etc.

It's a microcosm for society.

Until we see 100% participation in third level education a university (unfortunately, ITs/VECs/etc are less likely to have on campus medical care) can not be a microcosm for anything but a small slice of society.

Really, it's a little ridiculous the amount of time that student unions and campus medical services have to spend on what is very basic sex education - and also having to beg for free/cheap condoms from various state agencies and the manufacturers.

What about chemical castration of all teenage boys? Reading this thread i could be led to believe that the teenage girls are getting pregnant by themselves. If we're going to mess with one gender's hormones lets not be sexist about it and extend it to the other as well.

Kazobel

Errrrmmmm...

slowly backs out of thread

ztoical

cuckoo wrote: »

What about chemical castration of all teenage boys? Reading this thread i could be led to believe that the teenage girls are getting pregnant by themselves. If we're going to mess with one gender's hormones lets not be sexist about it and extend it to the other as well.

see I like the idea of chemical castration as they wouldn't be able to get it up so would also reduce STI's and with less hormones they'd be easier to deal with.....:p....kidding but still makes you think.....

tallaght01

Lil Kitten wrote: »

You know what else gives you all those above mentioned side effects? PREGNANCY. I know what I'd prefer. Aren't you on depo anyways? And in school? What difference would it make if a hypothetical government gave it to you for free and told you to be on it?

Anyways, the implant has a much lower, safer dose than depo and the side effects are pretty minimal. If anything, Implanon reduces risk of blood clot (that you can get with the pill) and cervical cancer. .

Now, are you talking about the 5 year implant here? Where did you get your figures for it's safety profile? In fact, what are your figures?

As for the blood clot issue, the implant may result in fewer blood clots in the short term than other types of hormonal contraception, but there's still higher rates than if you're on none at all!!

Also, the effect on cervical cancer could potentially be wiped out if the teenagers don't use barrier contaception. Cervical cancer is caused by a sexually transmited virus, so if this implant resulted in less condom usage, the the cervical cancer rates may rise overall.

Crumble Froo

Lil Kitten wrote: »

The same generation who pump themselves full of alcohol, hash, coke, tobacco etc etc etc.

personally, i think that the idea is a decent one, but optional, not mandatory. people still need the right of choice. i certainly wouldnt have liked to be on those pills as a teen, particularly as, now, as an adult, i still choose not to use them. same way i choose whether or not to pump any of the above mentioned substances into myself.

And I dont want to pay taxes for young wans kids and their unmarried mothers allowance and social housing. But I do.

the government needs to sort out much larger social problems and inequalities before they can even genuinely attempt to tackle the problem of teenage pregnancy.

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Think, what class/ age level is the most likely to get pregnant in Ireland? In the most PC way I can say it, it's teenage scummers that drop out at junior cert anyways and prob live in some knack estate. They 99% of the time will have a medical card and free doctor visits/ contraception/ MAP. They don't care.

o.0 that's the most PC way you can say it?

You can't just say, ok in X country they don't get pregnant because of XYZ. They also have a completely different social raising and psyche.

i do agree with that point, but it doesnt mean that there's no point at all in studying other countries.

watna wrote: »

I never got any free condoms in college, except for one with my Trinity Ball ticket one year. Fair enough I used to get my depo for very cheap (€10 instead of the €60 I have to pay now). A friend of mine went to college in Scotland and she used to bring boxes home for us. That's what they should have been doing in college with us, everytime you went to the college nurse/doctor for anything they should have been throwing boxes of condoms for us. My other half is from NZ and he said he used to go to the college health service and the doc/nurse would give him a box of 60 condoms. Everyone else got the same so all the student flats had drawers full of them! Maybe, seeming as they cost so much you should be able to get them free more often and more places.

i agree with that. and i can't really speak about the education system, as most people i know over here didnt really make their way through it (and a few have kids that were unplanned and have suffered some not-too-pleasant STIs), but we do have a friend who works at the needle exchange, which encourages safe sex/drug-use/anything related to blood and they give out free condoms, needle filters, for every used needle you give them, they give about five back or something, huge safe sex etc campaign there, and plenty of free condoms from them.

tallaght01

I was so interested in this tiopic that I've discussed it on the boards.ie medics blog.

Hope that's OK with you, Thaedydal, as you started the thread.

I've linked it to here, too. Might increase the nerd-traffic

www.twoweeksonatrolley.blogspot.com

Nevyn

Thats cool with me the more intresting input the better.

Chunky Monkey

Sorry if this has been said already, I haven't read through all the replies.

Think back to when you were fourteen/fifteen. Regarding the possible negative outcomes of sex (at that age) what would have been foremost on your mind? Pregnancy is an issue that just seems more real. If a young teenager knows that they won't get pregnant, do you really think they will spend money on condoms? At that age STDs from sex probably look like lung cancer from cigarettes-it happens to some people but it won't happen to you, you feel more invincible at that age. (I'm not saying that every sexually active teenager smokes, just making a point).

This is the second time this week that I've read an article about a proposal by the UK government that seems a bit Orwellian.

Chunky Monkey

Oh and regarding sex ed here haha...I went to a convent. Great school but the sex ed was woeful. We had a class where a religion teacher came in and asked us what we wanted to talk about. We said contraceptives. She spent the next half an hour asking us what contraceptives were available. There were two girls who listed them out while the rest of us sat there a wee bit befuzzled. She didn't explain about the effectiveness of each one and where we could get them. Instead she babbled on about how wrong sex before marriage was and natural contraception.

The only STD ads I saw when I was in my early teens were on the back of the toilet doors in DCU. They had a fuzzy picture of a drunk girl and said underneath something along the lines of 'always carry condoms in your bag just in case'. I had no idea what they were on about.

Lil Kitten

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Think, what class/ age level is the most likely to get pregnant in Ireland? In the most PC way I can say it, it's teenage scummers that drop out at junior cert anyways and prob live in some knack estate. They 99% of the time will have a medical card and free doctor visits/ contraception/ MAP. They don't care.

They get pregnant because they can, and the state will raise their baby. Nip this in the bud.

I think morning after pill etc should be available in school and condom vending machines should be in toilets. That won't stop this people of that mentality from popping out their sprogs. THEY DON'T CARE.

Sure, all the steps suggested can and probably will help middle class, educated kids to make more informed choices and be more careful (if they have sober sex that is.... doubtful)

You can't just say, ok in X country they don't get pregnant because of XYZ. They also have a completely different social raising and psyche.

Am I all for stopping these wastes of space from spreading their seed and bleeding the country dry? Damn right. So it's not the right thing to do. But man, If I was in power it'd be high on my agenda.

*awaits backlash*

Agreed, Its the girls like this who get the pill/and other methods for free on the medical card and wind up pregnant
I know hundreds of girls who I knew from my year, the years ahead and below mine who dropped out of school to have children
Far too many for just a simple margin of error mistake to have been made
I would gladly have this enforced on girls fromage 13 onwards especially in girls from less well off backgrounds
I'm glad I educated my sister and her friend on birth control and condoms from an early age

Bottle_of_Smoke

When I was younger STIs never crossed my mind, though the fear of pregnancy meant I was always rubbered up.

I don't think this is a good idea. Genital Herpes/Chlamydia etc would become as common as cold sores

Perhaps it's worth the cost of funding teenage pregnancies to avoid STI epidemics.

ztoical

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Perhaps it's worth the cost of funding teenage pregnancies to avoid STI epidemics.

when you compare the cost of health care for STI's vs the cost of welfare payments to teenage mums I think the later is the much cheaper option. Look at the amount of money they are sinking into countries in africa to deal with the HIV issue. Even something less severe here would cost a fortune.

This is one of those things that its either all in or none at all. You'd never get away with just selectively jabbing certain sections of the population - firstly cus you'd get sued for discrimination and secondly it could be seen as a step down the round towards a eugenics program of selective breeding.

There are too many issues with trying to introduce this on mass - the jab will effect everyone differently and girls with existing health conditions might run into issues with their medication interacting with the medication in the jab. Doctors would have problems if a girl got ill and they needed to give them broad spectrum antibiotics as they may have an interaction with the jab causing it not to work.

PurpleFistMixer

To echo what other people have said, I think such an injection would lead to a rise in the prevalence of STIs... at that age pregnancy is the biggest issue, the most immediate negative result of sex, so if that were taken care of, it'd seem suddenly quite harmless. You could prance about with anyone without worrying about getting pregnant. Seems like a great idea, but I think it would be all too easy to forget about other dangers, and end up riddled.

The idea that something like this would be enforced is ridiculous. Unless it had been rigorously tested and monitored for long term effects and proven to be entirely safe, it's a health risk the government has no right taking with anyone, young people or not.

To enforce it on people to varying degrees depending on their social or economic background is, thankfully, a concept so detestable that I could never see it being implemented. Someone already mentioned Nazi Germany and eugenics. You don't fix social problems by sterilising people. And a person isn't a teenage scummer because they drop out after their junior cert or because they live in a "knack estate". Je-sus.

I think we need to open up the topic of sex so it's less of a taboo. I guess it's down to the relationship between parents and children, but a girl (or a guy) shouldn't be afraid or embarassed to look about getting contraception, be it buying condoms or getting the pill or any other kind.

Free condoms/morning after pill/etc. is also a good idea. If you're getting condoms thrown at you, you'd have to be silly not to use them (well unfortunately lots of people are still silly, but at least they don't have the excuse of 'didn't have any condoms'). It seems to be the case in university, which is good, but as someone already said, not everyone goes there. I'm showing my ignorance here but I think there may be some free sex clinics which will give you them, which sounds like a great idea, and certainly something which should be either better publicised (for rock-lurkers like myself) or more widespread.

ztoical

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Free condoms/morning after pill/etc. is also a good idea. If you're getting condoms thrown at you, you'd have to be silly not to use them (well unfortunately lots of people are still silly, but at least they don't have the excuse of 'didn't have any condoms'). It seems to be the case in university, which is good, but as someone already said, not everyone goes there. I'm showing my ignorance here but I think there may be some free sex clinics which will give you them, which sounds like a great idea, and certainly something which should be either better publicised (for rock-lurkers like myself) or more widespread.

I've always been impressed with the way the gay community has tackled the issue of condom use. I use to go to the George in Dublin with my flatmate and the first time I went was shocked to find piles of condoms sitting on all the tables and scattered elsewhere for people to take. Also every now and then they had an area of the club sectioned off and had health professionals there to answer questions about STI's. While I don't think every nightclub could/should offer that I think giving out free condoms isn't that hard to do.

Zebby

Y'know, someone was saying to me recently about how it struck them as odd that if you use the word '******' or 'fag' etc., everyone's up in arms. PC is the way forward, Discriminate and Demean Not Lest Ye Be Discriminated Against or Demeaned. But somehow, she was saying, it's ok to describe people with her accent and background as 'knackers'. Somehow, it's ok to make fun of poor people... just wanted to throw that into the mix.

Yeah, alright, socio-economic culturalisation blahdeblah throw in a postmodern for good measure, kids from the Northside or whatever the equivalent is wherever yer from are more likely to get pregnant and drop out of school. But it's only a rule of thumb; it takes all sorts. Any strategy should be formulated with anyone it MIGHT happen to in mind. Don't throw your weight behind anything you're going to fight when it comes to your own kids.

And one thing that was niggling at me:

Lil Kitten, the practise of dismissing a perfectly valid point because the point-maker has used an emoticon is retarded. The practise of referring to things you take exception to as 'retarded' is retarded. So there :P

Jules

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Doesn't make a much of a difference to level of chicks going into their SU doctors office for morning after pill or an STD check.. EVEN THOUGH condoms and packs are handed around for free there and these people are educated about sex and there are leaflets everywhere during SHAG week and in the clinic etc etc.

It's a microcosm for society.

BTW this symbol :rolleyes: is annoying and retarded.

What's your solution, genius?

Apologies that im chiming in a little late with this but Lil'Kitten, if people want to use emoticons for expression its there business and im sure some
people may find things that you post are annoying etc but please be civil and try to post like a grown up.

And Zebby lets not lower ourselves to back biting. Please.