Straight man friends with a gay man

LegacyUser

Hi,
I wont lie this is a rant, not really a question of any sort, but feel free to reply if you have any thoughts.
I am a straight male and my friend came out to me and a few mates a few months ago ,we are in our early 30s. I was quite shocked as he certainly does not fit the stereotype. He genuinely loves sports, has a bad dress sense, all his friends are male, he comes out with genuinely "straight" statements that you could usually expect from a straight man and last but not least has went out with alot of women.Anyway I really apologise if im coming across as ignorant but thats simply because I AM when it comes to this aspect of sexuality, I simply dont know what the scene/life/pressures before coming out are like.
Anyway I take pride on the fact that I have been very cool about it, asking a lot of questions, meeting him just as often, and even asking him about his latest flings etc, hes met a few guys and has given me a good insight into the reality of the gay scene.

I really dont mind as I have stuck by his main request and thats for NOTHING to change. But now its him who is changing. My whole life both me him and my friends have kinda taken the piss out of gay people. Not in any extreme way,just as much as any other "lads" have done. E.g refer to something as "gay" if it was boring or chickflicky, or laugh at something that might be in referance to gayness(like one of us jokingly threatening to shag another one of us or something).

By now some of you readers are probably thinking,"why is this condasending little **** telling me this" , and sorry again I know its coming across as insulting.

What im leading to is , he now gets very insulted and shows it when I have one of these laughs, even though he spent his whole life doing it. he asked me when he told me first not to stop joking as he would feel really awkward if we stopped. He KNOWS the jokes arent directed at him but hes a principled man and is now deciding to take a stance against it.
He is one of my best friends, but he has hidden this for a long time, it wasnt easy for him telling me but I really didnt care afterwards which we were both delighted with. Im only starting to care now because he wants US to change (Its not just jokes, its general conversation also, he makes a point of looking bored when we talk about women).
What do you think? Are there many gay people on this forum who have absolutely no social gay friend circles? Might he just be getting fed up of having to play along like he did his whole life?

Its frustrating for the straight friends too, Im not going to change because he has. I am not homophobic but I will continue to joke and use harmless "gay" referances whether he likes it or not because he should know me better than that ,that it means nothing. I will continue to freely talk about women.
Do you think its time he started meeting up/and going drinking perhaps with more gay friends, the problem is he doesnt really want to because he HATES the gay stereotype, he doesnt find the whole camp thing attractive at all and this is what he thinks the gay community is like. Is he right?i.e is that what the community is really like?
Anyway thats my speech over with, i just thought i would give you an insider into the mind of a straight man friends with a gay man.
all the best
P

unreggd

Some friend you are!

Clearly he hasnt changed, he wasnt ready to come out, so having a strong opposition to gay jokes would rouse suspicion, so the friend you knew, wasnt the real person

He's not askin you to change, just show some consideration- you're talkin about something that offends him, so all he wants is to not discuss it around him. But you must have some serious problems yourselves if shaggin eachother is your active topic of conversation

Its not even just an anti-gay message your promotin, its a pro-hate message

I'm Irish but my Da's from abroad, so people always think im Spanish or middle-eastern. And still I do the same, as Ireland is a pretty "justifiably" racist country, and that bothers me, but I never really made a stand against it
Also, I always hated people thinking I wasnt Irish [im bleedin oyrish so i am!]
So I'd always try talk a little louder than normal on the bus or whatever so strangers knew I'm irish. Crazy but thats the truth!


You couldnt have posted a worst thread

oriain

Hi straigtmant

I can understand your frustration in whats happening here but I think a compromise is definitely in order, from both of you! Coming out is an incredibly difficult thing to do for most people and regardless of what people say, it does change things despite peoples best intentions. He may still be your mate and I seriously commend you for being open and supportive of him, like you said you talk to him about his flings and all but if he's not out long then he is still trying to find his feet. He may have always been gay but at least now it's out in the open and he's trying to find a way to incorporate that into his personality.

I'm a gay man and I have many straight friends, all of whom take the mickey out of me (no pun intended) for being gay. I don't mind but that's because I know that when it comes down to it they are still my mates and would probably try to clobber a stranger if they made any derogatory remarks to me about my sexuality. Not that I condone violence etc but y'know.

But I'm not everybody. Some people do take offence to jokes or quips about sexuality. Even if they are light hearted and not directed at them. So while I personally would see nothing wrong with it, I would suggest that maybe you tone down the gay remarks in his presence. He is your friend after all and I know you don't want to change but it's just a small consideration. But in saying that, when you guys are talking about women he needs to have consideration for you guys. Making a point of looking bored when you're talking about women sounds a bit... bad imo. He may prefer talking about men but as supportive as you've been I'm sure you don't want to talk about which Rugby player has the nicest bum?! Probably more along the lines of which sugababe has the nicest bum! lol

So I can totally understand your frustration. More than a few friendships of mine changed when they found out. (Here comes Jerry Springers final thought of the day) both sides need to compromise a bit here. Talk to him about it if you feel the need to. In that case be honest but not blunt. But in saying that you might find that if you guys tone down the gay quips in front of him he might just lighten up a little too. It's a difficult time and he'll need his friends so he might be p***ing you off a bit now but things'll get better.

azezil

Sounds to me he's just in the early stages of coming out, feels he should behave in a certain way now that he's being oppressed and all that jazz, I know I went through the same for about a year after I came out :rolleyes:

I'm gay and I make gay jokes much like what you've described here, I take the piss out of "girly" movies all of the time and the guys who enjoy them... its all just harmless banter in my eyes. I've straight friends who take the piss out of me and I do the same to them! Laughing about our differences is an excellent way of coming to terms with them and gaining understanding of our own uniqueness.

I say just give him time, and you can tell him the entire scene isn't a bunch of nancy boys, prancing around in skin tight tops talking about their hair styles and worshiping Madonna / Kylie

moridin

azezil wrote: »

I say just give him time, and you can tell him the entire scene isn't a bunch of nancy boys, prancing around in skin tight tops talking about their hair styles and worshiping Madonna / Kylie

Aye, that's just you Az ;P

While he might not want things to change with the dynamics of your friendship you should also have a bit of consideration. Generally I don't mind the "oh that's gay" thing that people do unless I'm tired or stressed or annoyed and it just feeds that annoyance. You might tone it down a bit, and consider why you're using gay in a derogatory manner, rather than choosing a more apt word :P

The thing about him getting annoyed about you talking about women would appear to me as being an "only gay in the village" kinda situation. He's either

a) sick of hearing about it ALL the time
b) annoyed at not being able to talk the same way about guys
c) just trying to draw attention to himself and shove it in your face that he's gay

Option (c) happens a lot with people who've just come out. Give him a bit of time perhaps. If it's one of the other two then he could try and meet some other gay guys with the same interests as him, hell, get him to join the Emerald Warriors This should give him an outlet for that side of his personality and not annoy you with it too much perhaps :P

LegacyUser

unreggd wrote: »

Some friend you are!

Clearly he hasnt changed, he wasnt ready to come out, so having a strong opposition to gay jokes would rouse suspicion, so the friend you knew, wasnt the real person

He's not askin you to change, just show some consideration- you're talkin about something that offends him, so all he wants is to not discuss it around him. But you must have some serious problems yourselves if shaggin eachother is your active topic of conversation

Its not even just an anti-gay message your promotin, its a pro-hate message

I'm Irish but my Da's from abroad, so people always think im Spanish or middle-eastern. And still I do the same, as Ireland is a pretty "justifiably" racist country, and that bothers me, but I never really made a stand against it
Also, I always hated people thinking I wasnt Irish [im bleedin oyrish so i am!]
So I'd always try talk a little louder than normal on the bus or whatever so strangers knew I'm irish. Crazy but thats the truth!


You couldnt have posted a worst thread

Maybe "shaggin each other" was a bad example. We dont sit around every night drawing out plans on how were going to **** each other lol, just a stupid joke here and there if someone does something "gay". I dont know where my pro-hate message is coming from. He would be alot more offended and paranoid if we all stayed quiet when ever there was a reference to something gay. Regarding racism, yes thats rampant in every country and ireland is no exception,its because nobody likes change(and all the ****ing foreigners are taking are jobs lol ,only joking),but thats not really the issue here.

thanks for the responses, i hope you appreciate im just giving an honest no bull**** account from a straight mans perspective and also these jokes and referances are honestly few and far between, dont think were a bunch of roudy "Hard" lads that take pleasure in taking the piss out of others, just a bit of harmless fun. I have another old friend who came out years ago,however he is quite frankly the opposite of my mate(camp /dress/attitude wise) and he LOVES the gay jokes and makes more of them than I could ever but hes only having a laugh.

I guess I'll talk to my mate and be a bit more considerate regarding jokes in his presence, even though he kind of did ask for that not to happen but I could see where he is coming from.
@moridin , its probably (a) AND (b). Id resent being friends with alot of gay people and never getting a chance to talk about women!!
P

Boston

It could be that his prospective has changed since coming out. He now sees the other side of thing and takes the jokes you make personally even though they are not directed at him individually. I know I picked up on stuff like that a lot more after I came out.

That said, I think there needs to be some compromise. He can't be taking every comment you guys make personally if he want to remain friends, and at the same time, you guys have to be more considerate. Things have changed one way or another and pretending otherwise won't get you anywhere.

AARRRGH

unreggd wrote: »

Some friend you are!

Clearly he hasnt changed

You couldnt have posted a worst thread

Oh FFS. The guy is being honest and as a straight guy I totally understand what he's saying.

He's asking for advice because he doesn't know what to do. Knocking him like that isn't going to help the situation.

You're being too sensitive.

OP: I don't know what I'd do in your situation. It's very difficult. Sorry.

unreggd

dublindude wrote: »

The guy is being honest and as a straight guy I totally understand what he's saying.

You're being too sensitive.

Im a straight guy too mr presumptuous

Im not bein sensitive, he just sounds like he knows hes bein a sap, and refuses to tone down his slaggins, but then he wants to know why theres a problem

AARRRGH

unreggd wrote: »

Im a straight guy too mr presumptuous

I never said you were gay mr presumptuous.

OP: Yes, communication is the solution to this problem.

LegacyUser

To be honest the "it is gay" tag line being stuck onto alot of discussions is very boring, "the chair is gay" "you have gay hair" anyone who doesn't play rugby "is gay". The real problem -Your friends lack variety in expressing yourselves. Would it really be such a stretch to give it a rest occassionally and use some other words? Also where do you draw the line between what you percieve to be a joke and derogatory comments?

ateam

What you're actually doing is slagging gay people whether you know it or not, that's what you're doing. So maybe stop it, after all you're in your 30s now, ya need to grow up a bit.

arybvtcw0eolkf

OP I'm a straight guy whose been in the same position when two friends have 'come out'.

All I'll say is ''there's none so pure as a re-formed whore''.

You and your friend will go through various stages of getting used to his new lifestyle, but in my experience you'll lose some of that old friendship as he moves further into the gay scene.

Like you I can talk to one of my gay friends, we've discussed partners, his sexual preferences (when he'd meet a new guy who didn't share his tastes) etc. but in the end, he's gay. He's in a scene and lifestyle that as straights we're somewhat excluded and most things we do or say will be taken as offensive to someone.

What I do now is let the jokes etc be on their terms and just have some consideration for their feelings.

L1011

Its entirely possibly to be gay and not be involved in 'the scene' and have a lifestyle that differs in no way from that of a heterosexual - except for who you form relationships/have sex with...

If your friend "changed" in what you see, that would sgugest he was hiding reality from you, though.

DubArk

straigtmant wrote: »

Hi,
What do you think? Are there many gay people on this forum who have absolutely no social gay friend circles? Might he just be getting fed up of having to play along like he did his whole life?

P

You’re to be commended for you even asking the question to start with P. Im a gay man who’s been out for many a year im in my yearly 40’s and have lived outside these shores for about 18yrs before returning with my partner of 23 yrs. I admit before I left I was so sensitive I would of let the ground swallow me up if any gay jokes had been made, although back in the 80’s in Ireland they of hanged me from the highest tree if they’d known I was gay rather then make a joke. Having noted that on my return the phrase “THAT’S SO GAY!” seems to have entered much of the Irish lingo? Even my nephews and nieces say it all the time as a putdown in front of me knowing fully well that im gay?
Anyway I digress, when I did finally come out I was so PC, that looking back at it now, I wouldn’t recognise myself. Your friend is going through great changes in his life and those changes bring with it many stresses. It’s different when the jokes on you and only confidence can make him strong and really believe that,” Stick and stones…..”
I don’t go near the scene, all my mates are straight and give me a ripping but I give as good as I get. I never chose straight friends it just worked out that way. I live in Ireland and the majority of people I meet are straight, men and women. Im in a very strong relationship and therefore don’t need the scene to meet other guys. Mind you when I was on the scene I hated it, but it had its uses. Im part of society and never want to just move in such narrow circles.
Patience is probably the wisest move and yes things will change and they always do in any relationship weather its platonic or not. Life moves on. My mates are still my mates after all these years and I believe they don’t judge me because they have grown up too.
I hope you always remain good friends and maybe you need to calm down too.

All the best.

LegacyUser

DubArk wrote: »

You’re to be commended for you even asking the question to start with P. Im a gay man who’s been out for many a year im in my yearly 40’s and have lived outside these shores for about 18yrs before returning with my partner of 23 yrs. I admit before I left I was so sensitive I would of let the ground swallow me up if any gay jokes had been made, although back in the 80’s in Ireland they of hanged me from the highest tree if they’d known I was gay rather then make a joke. Having noted that on my return the phrase “THAT’S SO GAY!” seems to have entered much of the Irish lingo? Even my nephews and nieces say it all the time as a putdown in front of me knowing fully well that im gay?
Anyway I digress, when I did finally come out I was so PC, that looking back at it now, I wouldn’t recognise myself. Your friend is going through great changes in his life and those changes bring with it many stresses. It’s different when the jokes on you and only confidence can make him strong and really believe that,” Stick and stones…..”
I don’t go near the scene, all my mates are straight and give me a ripping but I give as good as I get. I never chose straight friends it just worked out that way. I live in Ireland and the majority of people I meet are straight, men and women. Im in a very strong relationship and therefore don’t need the scene to meet other guys. Mind you when I was on the scene I hated it, but it had its uses. Im part of society and never want to just move in such narrow circles.
Patience is probably the wisest move and yes things will change and they always do in any relationship weather its platonic or not. Life moves on. My mates are still my mates after all these years and I believe they don’t judge me because they have grown up too.
I hope you always remain good friends and maybe you need to calm down too.

All the best.

cheers for the advice, you seem to have a good understanding of the situation in terms of the kind of jokes we make "thats so gay...." etc,anyway its been a few weeks and I did put a stop to the messing and yes he does seem a little more relaxed about it now because of that. cheers again

Selkies

Before I came to college I was a fundie Christian.
Since then I've lived with a gay couple and a lot of my friends are gay.
They are pretty used to me calling stuff gay. I was once questioned on it.

A: Why do you use gay as a negative adjective?
Me: Why do you use **** as a negative word?
A: Good point

Another conversation with that guys b/f
Me: You know when I use the word gay as a negative word, I'm actually trying to offend you and your people
B: You're so GAY!

However they have been openly gay for years, their families are cool with it, their friends are cool with it and society is generally cool with it.
Still, I hear its dangerous to walk down a street holding hands.

I recently came out as having no sexual preference and misplaced in my gender identity.
Despite how often I *still* call things gay, I don't think I'd be so comfortable with someone making trannie jokes, if there is any.
I mean I'm still rather new to it, and a little terrified. My parents aren't cool with that sort of thing.
So my friends are waiting till I'm comfortable in myself before they begin taking the piss out of me.

I think thats what you should do, wait till he is comfortable in himself before taking the piss. He may be being too sensitive, but you should give him a little time to get over it.

Nerin

i had a "gay" friend who practically lived with us last year.
if you didnt know him, you wouldnt have a clue what his sexuality was(when i was told my reaction was "so??".
if he was offended by "gay" i'd never say it,(i rarely do) but when i heard him using it i realised he was ok with it.
now when people used it* offensively or not as a joke he might get upset.
so i guess it depends on the person OP.

selkies wrote:

I think thats what you should do, wait till he is comfortable in himself before taking the piss. He may be being too sensitive, but you should give him a little time to get over it.

i agree with this statement



*example(redneck:"fupping gays actin like fairys shud be shot"

DubArk

Please dont print RedNecks words as he only will get attention. There so off offensive!:(

studiorat

Friend of mines nephew, he's 5 or 6, has started using gay as an adjective.
"Carrots? eugh! they're Gay!" Not encouraged, but hilarious none the less.

My group of friends are mixed, nobody's in any scene except for our own. We get the biggest laugh when the straight guys get a slagging for being gay. Each others sexuality is not what defines us, but it's not something we ignore either. Anyway, there's probably a bit of homo/hetro in everybody.

We do use the "that's Gay" thing all the time, precisely 'cause it's so daft.

"Calling things gay is sooo gay"

ps
Havin' a good looking gay mate is the perfect partner for going on the pull too.;)

Nerin

studiorat wrote: »

ps
Havin' a good looking gay mate is the perfect partner for going on the pull too.;)

thats very true
also, the "you know how i kow youre gay" game.
me and my friend played that for a whole day, i still like to think i won since i said "know how i know youre gay? because you have sex with members of the same gender"
of course he did get me with some zingers....
i wonder how the op is getting on?