Kick Italian clubs out of UEFA Competitions

Peyton Manning

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-7321562,00.html

Real fan stabbed before Roma game - reports
ROMA, Feb 19 (Reuters) - A Real Madrid fan was stabbed before the Champions League last 16 first-leg match with AS Roma on Tuesday, Italian media said.
The young fan was taken to hospital suffering from cuts to his backside after the incident in a square, the ambulance service was quoted as saying.
Italy has a soccer hooligan problem and a series of knife attacks have been reported before matches in the Italian capital in recent months.

How long will it be until UEFA get up off their arses and do something about violence in Italian football.

Xavi6

Archimedes wrote: »

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-7321562,00.html



How long will it be until UEFA get up off their arses and do something about violence in Italian football.

Agreed. I know they've played games behind closed doors but that clearly hasn't worked. Time for the next step.

super_furry

It's been going on in Rome for at least 40 years, nothing was done then, nothing will be done now.

Mitch Connor

it must have been dem ManYoo fans wot started it.

AnCapaillMor

Said it before and said it again, it was England, english clubs would've been thrown out with no reservations whatsoever.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Not thinking of making it easier for Man U to win the thing are we...?

Seriously - If say, Chelsea fans (just for example) got kicked out for similar behaveious, would Man U (or Liverpool and Arsenal fans for that matter) be clamouring for a similar England-wde ban?

Next step is forcing Roma to play home games in a foreign country. Then kicking Roma AND ROMA ONLY out of the CL

L'prof

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Not thinking of making it easier for Man U to win the thing are we...?

Seriously - If say, Chelsea fans (just for example) got kicked out for similar behaveious, would Man U (or Liverpool and Arsenal fans for that matter) be clamouring for a similar England-wde ban?

Next step is forcing Roma to play home games in a foreign country. Then kicking Roma AND ROMA ONLY out of the CL

Good post, it's generally Roma fans that cause all the trouble so, I don't see why Uefa would have to look any further than punishing them!

OhNoYouDidn't

Look a bit more into this story before you do your Joe Duffy routine.

Real Madrid have a well known and active Nazi Ultra group. Roma have a left wing Ultra group.

Are you sure you want to go to the barracades like this to defend a fascist who went all the way to Rome to lose a scrap?

PHB

Roma should be banned, and should have been banned. It's happened to Boro, United and Madrid fans now. Hope he recovers, UEFA is a joke.

estebancambias

Yep exactly. Lazio and Real Madrid fans have a close affiliation.

What the **** can Roma do? It happened outside the stadium, they can do nothing about it. The fans, nor the players should have to suffer because of something oblivous to football.

OhNoYouDidn't

PHB wrote: »

Roma should be banned, and should have been banned. It's happened to Boro, United and Madrid fans now. Hope he recovers, UEFA is a joke.

What has? Hooligans got turned over in Campo Di Fiore. Who cares.

PHB

estebancambias wrote: »

What the **** can Roma do? It happened outside the stadium, they can do nothing about it. The fans, nor the players should have to suffer because of something oblivous to football.

Yet the Italian police decide to arrest United fans who didn't stab anyone, yet ignore the actions of the so called Roma fans, who I agree, were unlikely to be actual fans.
The problem is that the police and the fans are willing to tolerate this happening, and the only way they won't be is if they get kicked out of Europe.

OhNoYouDidn't

PHB wrote: »

Yet the Italian police decide to arrest United fans who didn't stab anyone, yet ignore the actions of the so called Roma fans, who I agree, were unlikely to be actual fans.
The problem is that the police and the fans are willing to tolerate this happening, and the only way they won't be is if they get kicked out of Europe.

They were MIB that the cops lifted. You are pushing the envelope with the 'innocent English fans' attacked by the cops and local hoolies.

Should Man Utd be expelled from Europe for the MIB, sorry pure as the driven snow Man Utd fans, getting their revenge in the Old Trafford Car Park? That was worse because it happened at the stadium, not in town the night before the game.

Are fans of the English game in any position to point fingers on this issue?

DSB

Roma should go, Italian clubs in general should not.

Melion

I think its only a matter of time before there is a serious disaster in Italy on a CL night. The police just dont seem to be able to handle it, you just have to wonder how far it has to go before UEFA or FIFA take action.

citytillidie

PHB wrote: »

Roma should be banned, and should have been banned. It's happened to Boro, United and Madrid fans now. Hope he recovers, UEFA is a joke.

It amazes me everyone seems to forget the Roma fans did it to Liverpool fans too before the European cup final in 84

super_furry

citytillidie wrote: »

It amazes me everyone seems to forget the Roma fans did it to Liverpool fans too before the European cup final in 84

Like I say, it's been going on for decades. They ride around on scooters slashing people on the back with stanley blades and nothing ever comes from it.

x in the city

them ULTRAS should be all knee capped in a shed and roma should be banned no doubt. not sure about all teams.

they are ALWAYS friggin doing ****. not acceptable, but yes fifa are a con.

citytillidie

UEFA cant do anything as its not happening inside the ground.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

They can if they deem that the home club/country is unable to guarantee the safety of the visiting fans.

citytillidie

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

They can if they deem that the home club/country is unable to guarantee the safety of the visiting fans.

Yea but thats only been used in cases where there has been civil unrest.

OhNoYouDidn't

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

They can if they deem that the home club/country is unable to guarantee the safety of the visiting fans.

Fans never have a problem in Italy.

Hooligans do.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Fans never have a problem in Italy.

Hooligans do.

Visiting fans do if people are sticking knives in them! Point is, if Uefa think visiting fans aren't safe, from whoever or whatever is casuing the threat, I'm pretty sure they can force the tie to be moved.

Gavin "shels"

This is being taken out of proportion. For all of you who have been giving out, go research this matter. Poland, Russia, Argentina, etc... are about a hundred times worst. The only reason Italy is in the limelight is because Man Utd hooligans tryed to play with the big boys and failed, and that two "Ultras" have been shot by the police over there in recent months. I do however hate the use of weapons, God gave us fists for a reason.;)

UEFA say along of things and have many rules, certain one's aren't enforce in certain league's. So what makes you think they will use this "making sure the visiting fan safe" rule?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gavin shels wrote: »

This is being taken out of proportion. For all of you who have been giving out, go research this matter. Poland, Russia, Argentina, etc... are about a hundred times worst. The only reason Italy is in the limelight is because Man Utd hooligans tryed to play with the big boys and failed, and that two "Ultras" have been shot by the police over there in recent months. I do however hate the use of weapons, God gave us fists for a reason.;)

UEFA say along of things and have many rules, certain one's aren't enforce in certain league's. So what makes you think they will use this "making sure the visiting fan safe" rule?

I'm not - but they're more likely to do that than kick all Itialian clubs out of the contest which, as you say, would be massively out of proportion.

OhNoYouDidn't

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Visiting fans do if people are sticking knives in them! Point is, if Uefa think visiting fans aren't safe, from whoever or whatever is casuing the threat, I'm pretty sure they can force the tie to be moved.

I'll type this slowly as you appear to have missed the point.

Fans who go to Rome and have a few beers, see the sights get on very well with the welcoming locals and end up swapping scarves.

Packs of lads in stone island or with swastika flags get minced, and occasionally cut.

You do understand the distinction between the welcome fans get and hooligans get? And that UEFA are under no obligation to sancion Italian clubs because Real Madrid nazis or some Man Utd black army guys started a row and lost?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'll type this slowly as you appear to have missed the point.

Fans who go to Rome and have a few beers, see the sights get on very well with the welcoming locals and end up swapping scarves.

Packs of lads in stone island or with swastika flags get minced, and occasionally cut.

You do understand the distinction between the welcome fans get and hooligans get? And that UEFA are under no obligation to sancion Italian clubs because Real Madrid nazis or some Man Utd black army guys started a row and lost?

Type as slowly as you like, I read at the same speed. Now, where did I say that fans and hooligans ae the same?

I'm looking at this though UEFA eyes, as they are the ones that will make any decision. I'm saying what THEY may or may not do. Most likely, as has been pointed out, they'll do nothing, and this, as things stand, is probably the right decision. Unlike what the OP thinks.

Edit - see post #25 for a personal view.

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote: »

Yet the Italian police decide to arrest United fans who didn't stab anyone, yet ignore the actions of the so called Roma fans, who I agree, were unlikely to be actual fans.
The problem is that the police and the fans are willing to tolerate this happening, and the only way they won't be is if they get kicked out of Europe.

This is ridiculous. How does a Madrid fan getting stabbed in Rome have anything to do with Man Utd? But now that you brought it up, whether you can admit it or not, there was trouble in three CL games last season and the common denominator..........?

PHB, you may be an absolute angel as a fan, but there is no way you can say the Man Utd fans in Rome were innocent

LostinBlanch

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'll type this slowly as you appear to have missed the point.

Fans who go to Rome and have a few beers, see the sights get on very well with the welcoming locals and end up swapping scarves.

Really? Tell that to that couple of guys (middle aged business men iirc) who got a taxi and asked to be dropped at the away end. The taxi driver dropped them right in the middle of a group of ultras and they got the crap beaten out of them, stabbed etc. Ended up in hopsital I think.

Roma ultras are scumbags nft.

I wouldn't kick out all Italian teams, but UEFA should really ban Roma there is too much of this crap going on. As mentioned before Roma fans did the same to the scousers in 84. So the scousers swore that the next time they played an Italian team there would be hell to pay.

Unfortunately that was Juventus in Heysel.

PHB

nipplenuts wrote: »

This is ridiculous. How does a Madrid fan getting stabbed in Rome have anything to do with Man Utd? But now that you brought it up, whether you can admit it or not, there was trouble in three CL games last season and the common denominator..........?

PHB, you may be an absolute angel as a fan, but there is no way you can say the Man Utd fans in Rome were innocent

Of course the United fans were not innocent. But that wasn't the point I was making. They were certainly less problematic than, wait for it, the people who stab people on a regular basis
An away fan has been stabbed on three seperate occassions (and I'm pretty sure its a lot more), common denominator, Roma 'fans'.

Yet the police arrest 3 United fans who weren't stabbing anyone, and were just out causing trouble. It shows you their priorities.

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

Yet the police arrest 3 United fans who weren't stabbing anyone, and were just out causing trouble.

So Roma people who stab are "fans".

But Man Utd people who cause trouble are normal fans.

Double standards much? :rolleyes:

Look, everyone knows the Roma element is scummy, but to defend the actions of other holigans is insane.

They went looking for trouble, they got it. End Of imo.

PHB

Every club have fans who want to cause trouble. However the hooligans are a different level. Those lads who were arrested were regular at Old Trafford. I highly highly doubt that those Roma fans who stabbed people were regulars at the Stadio *******.

Indeed, but there are levels of trouble. How the **** can't people see that?

Let's make a nice little table

A. Killing people
B. Stabbing People
C. Looking for fights

People in B are much worse than people in C!! Yet the police focus on people from abroad in C! Despite the fact that there are lots of people in B living in their own ****ing city. That is an absolute joke.

_blank_

I'm sorry PHB, but it sounds like you have sympathy for people who go looking for trouble. Do you?

When trouble finds them they can't just start crying because they come accross the proper hardcore holigan element.

It's pretty obvious to me, you and the rest of the damn world that Roma Ultras are prone to knife weilding. It's not as if the knives were a surprise, is it?

So, this Manc Firm that went to Rome, looking for trouble, knew that a knifing was a possibility, yet they still went looking for a fight.

Idiots imo.

And yes, the Rome police are correc to crack down on them. Why the hell should they tolerate foreigners coming into the city intent on causing trouble. After all, if they weren't there, the Roma Ultras would have nobody to stab.

PHB

Jesus christ, that's just utterly wrong in so many ways, the most important being,

Roma fans don't stab people who are out looking for fights. They stab anyone who happens to walk down the wrong ****ing alley.

The Roma fans tolerate the people who stab anyone, and then focus on the foreign fans who are out looking for a fight with other foreign fans looking for a fight. It's a ****ing joke.

super_furry

PHB wrote: »

Jesus christ, that's just utterly wrong in so many ways, the most important being,

Roma fans don't stab people who are out looking for fights. They stab anyone who happens to walk down the wrong ****ing alley.

The Roma fans tolerate the people who stab anyone, and then focus on the foreign fans who are out looking for a fight with other foreign fans looking for a fight. It's a ****ing joke.

Exactly the point that people are missing, or willfully ignoring, it's very rarely travelling foreign hooligans that are attacked by Roma fans, but normal fans. And even when it is other hooligans, doesn’t the fact that Roma fans are stabbing people so regularly, warrant investigation? Once could be an isolated incident, twice is worry, but the frequency with which football fans are being stabbed in Rome is such that it’s not a safe place for football fans and as such, Roma should not be allowed to compete in European football.

Middlesbrough fans stabbed in Rome - http://www.4ni.co.uk/news.asp?id=49707

Real Madrid fan stabbed in Rome - http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldFootballNews/idUKL1946523620080219

Catania fans stabbed in Rome - http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_3065869,00.html

Liverpool fans stabbed in Rome - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1694824.stm

Man United fans stabbed in Rome - http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200708/story/0,,2226664,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

PHB

Careful now, you don't mean to suggest that the police in Italy are an absolute joke do you?

OhNoYouDidn't

I lived in Rome for a while and I am not for a second defending them stabbing anyone, and will acknowledge they have a lundatic fringe, but the simple reality is that all the incidents listed are hooligan on hooligan action. .

I have no sympathy for anyone who is cavalier enough to take them on in Rome with the reputation they have.

PHB - have you any source for your tabloid allegation that they stab 'anyone'? I have yet to hear of any 'normal' fan behaving themselves ever getting in bother in Rome. Are you as vitriolic towords the Man Utd fans for tolerating hooligans, Liverpool for tolerating murderers and Real Madrid for tolerating fascits? Or is it just you defend crap hooligans?

OhNoYouDidn't

PHB wrote: »

Careful now, you don't mean to suggest that the police in Italy are an absolute joke do you?

Will we run through a list of serious injuries to away fans over the same time frame at Tottenham, Chelsea, West Ham or Birmingham?

Is the issue hooliganism or specifically knives?

PHB

Read the first report, just look at it. The Roma fans threw flares into a pub where Boro fans were drinking in order to get them out, and then procedded to stab them!

There is no denying that there still exists a serious hooligan problem that is not reported in England. Hell last week after the Derby, some City fan got the **** kicked out of him. However, the police are actually investigating it and trying to find out who did it. It's not like they are doing nothing about it, then waiting for Lyon fans to come over so they can arrest them!

leninbenjamin

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I lived in Rome for a while and I am not for a second defending them stabbing anyone, and will acknowledge they have a lundatic fringe, but the simple reality is that all the incidents listed are hooligan on hooligan action. .

I have no sympathy for anyone who is cavalier enough to take them on in Rome with the reputation they have.

I dunno if that's the case. there have been an awful lot of eyewitness reports over the years saying that there are elements of the Roma fans who actively look for a fight.

I'd hate to see Roma kicked out, and by no means should the other Italian clubs be, but there has to be some sort of formal investigation by UEFA into Roma's fans at this stage. THEY are the only concrete common denominator here.