NCT,Tax and a Garda. What can I do?

craichoe

NP14,

How about you go abroad, exchange your license, come back for the court date. Take the fine and points aren't really an issue then.

NP14

Going to Asia, so the ticket back to go to court will be a grand.:(

cc

i suspect if the nct was out by 14 days rather than 14 months the guard would of been a lot nicer, 14 months driving about without an nct is pretty bad, can't justify that really

NP14

cc wrote: »

i suspect if the nct was out by 14 days rather than 14 months the guard would of been a lot nicer, 14 months driving about without an nct is pretty bad, can't justify that really

I take your point, but what baffles me is this, if it is such a safety issue, how com road deaths have been increasing in recent years, not declining as you might think with intro the NCT.

But the thing that's interesting about it is the inconsistency about it. It's either
a) a very serious offence as some have suggested, or not such a big deal.

I have been stopped twice in the past 6 months and it was not even mentioned in any way at all.

That's the thing here. He has asked me to do something which is impossible (within 10 days), and say if I don't
get it done in that time he'll summons me.

I'd have no problem paying fines etc, but it's this issue of going from non appliance of the law on one hand, to the
insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

javaboy

Boggles wrote: »

"6. Will I be notified when my test is due?
NCTS will contact owners of eligible motor vehicles (based on official vehicle registration records) in advance of the anniversary date of first registration of your car"

From my reading of it, he will be contacted before next October, am I right?

That's how it's supposed to work but you should keep an eye on it yourself. I was never contacted about my NCT and by the time I'd arranged it myself, I couldn't get a test date until about a week after expiry. I know someone else who was never contacted either so it's worth keeping an eye on.

seamus

Basically your tax was out of date by nearly a month, your NCT had been gone for more than a year, so the alarm bells went off - "This guy doesn't give a ****". So he asked you to produce.

If you'd had an NCT or valid tax, you probably would have been fine. My NCT has been out since the end of January (test booked for the end of March before the PC brigade give out ). I delayed because I had more important things to do in my spare time this month. I've gone through 3 checkpoints since it expired and no-one has said a thing. Probably because I have tax & insurance. Or maybe because it's only out by a month.

I take your point, but what baffles me is this, if it is such a safety issue, how com road deaths have been increasing in recent years, not declining as you might think with intro the NCT.

What gives you that impression? Road deaths are proportionately (in terms of no. of cars and accidents/mile) lower than they've ever been before.

I'd have no problem paying fines etc, but it's this issue of going from non appliance of the law on one hand, to the
insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

Have you checked with every test centre in the country? If you try to book online you can check against different NCT centres.

Chances are, you'll show tax and no NCT and you may get a summons. When you go in front of a judge, you'll show that you're taxed and he'll strike it out. Net result = your time is wasted and you'll remember to tax and NCT your car next time. I think that's worth it.

TwoShedsJackson

NP14 wrote: »

I take your point, but what baffles me is this, if it is such a safety issue, how com road deaths have been increasing in recent years, not declining as you might think with intro the NCT.

Not saying it's neccesarily anything to do with the intro of the NCT but road deaths have been declining generally since 1998, with the exception of a spike in 2005, according to the RSA's official report.

You might think the guard is being over-official what with being fresh out of Templemore etc. but you knew you could be brought up over this and were presumably relying on the 'ah sure I've been stopped twice already and nothing was said so nothing will ever be said' approach.

TheNog

NP14 wrote: »

But the thing that's interesting about it is the inconsistency about it. It's either
a) a very serious offence as some have suggested, or not such a big deal.

In court you will get a fine for no NCT.

NP14 wrote: »

I have been stopped twice in the past 6 months and it was not even mentioned in any way at all.

Guards have differing opinions on the NCT. Some support it, others don't. Same as the general public.

NP14 wrote: »

That's the thing here. He has asked me to do something which is impossible (within 10 days), and say if I don't
get it done in that time he'll summons me.

I'd have no problem paying fines etc, but it's this issue of going from non appliance of the law on one hand, to the
insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

He made a lawful demand of you to produce your NCT cert within 10 days. That is written in law. It is only impossible to do because a) the nct is booked up for weeks and b) you have been driving with an expired nct disc for 14 months.

however the garda should not summons you for no tax if it is out of date for 14 days only. This will be struck out in court by the judge.

unfortunately you cannot blame the garda for trying to do his job.

Wishbone Ash

NP14 wrote: »

He has asked me to do something which is impossible (within 10 days), and say if I don't
get it done in that time he'll summons me.....
.......insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

Request a cancellation slot and inform them that you are available at short notice. I telephoned for an appointment recently and I was offered the next day.

javaboy wrote: »

That's how it's supposed to work but you should keep an eye on it yourself. I was never contacted about my NCT and by the time I'd arranged it myself, I couldn't get a test date until about a week after expiry. I know someone else who was never contacted either so it's worth keeping an eye on.

The letter is sent out as a courtesy only. They have no legal obligation to do so. The registered owner of the vehicle is responsible for ensuring that it has a valid NCT Certificate.

seamus wrote: »

Road deaths are proportionately (in terms of no. of cars and accidents/mile) lower than they've ever been before

Yes, for example, the road deaths in the 1960s were way higher is proportion to the number of vehicles on the road.

TheNog wrote: »

Guards have differing opinions on the NCT. Some support it, others don't. Same as the general public

You shouldn't compare the Garda with the general public. The Gardai are entitled to have private opinions but they should not allow those opinions to influence the application of their statutory duties.

Johnny Utah

The nct is a pure joke- just another stealth tax for the irish motorist.


I've been driving for 5 years without any nct, and it has never been mentioned.


I wonder if this same guard has summoned any eastern european drivers to court for vrt?

Marcus.Aurelius

NP14 wrote: »

Going to Asia, so the ticket back to go to court will be a grand.:(

Not wanting to advocate anything illegal, but once you leave the country for Asia you cannot be brought back for a court appearance. If you do not show up in court, you may be tried in absentia, which will not matter as regards your license from an international viewpoint, as points are not currently issued for no NCT.

Also, if the judge decides to issue a bench warrant for your arrest, it is not enforceable abroad, and an international arrest warrant will not be issued for something so trivial. Coming home could present an issue if your license is checked for another offence.

Another option is to plead your case (nicely!!!) with the Garda (in the presence of the sergeant in charge) and perhaps either the garda will take pity or the sgt will clip him on the ear (verbally) and leave you alone.

seamus

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I wonder if this same guard has summoned any eastern european drivers to court for vrt?

Wouldn't surprise me. Hit a checkpoint on the outer ring road in Clondalkin last week and they had a car transporter there which they were clearly using to take vehicles. At least two UK regs and one odd one (don't know the eastern european ones) were already on the truck and they were chatting to a UK reg driver.

Johnny Utah

No, the point is that there are thousands of east european cars in ireland at the moment with no tax, no vrt, and definitely no nct. I know that guards have been picking up uk vrt dodgers, but they seem to leave the eastern european cars alone for some reason.



In relation to nct, it seems (from previous threads here) that the nct is now being enforced, mostly by young guards fresh out of templemore, whereas in the past it was overlooked if you had tax + insurance.

If they are coming down strict on the nct, then it is very hard to reconcile this with other more serious offences (no vrt/tax) which are still overlooked, particularly in rural areas.

craichoe

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No, the point is that there are thousands of east european cars in ireland at the moment with no tax, no vrt, and definitely no nct. I know that guards have been picking up uk vrt dodgers, but they seem to leave the eastern european cars alone for some reason.



In relation to nct, it seems (from previous threads here) that the nct is now being enforced, mostly by young guards fresh out of templemore, whereas in the past it was overlooked if you had tax + insurance.

If they are coming down strict on the nct, then it is very hard to reconcile this with other more serious offences (no vrt/tax) which are still overlooked, particularly in rural areas.

The reason is simple, theres lots of Irish people with an Irish address that own a UK registered car with UK plates. They are liable for VRT, however if you have a UK address and not registered in Ireland then your not.

Same for all the cars in Europe.

They target UK reg cars because their the most common.

Johnny Utah

But what about EU citizens living full-time in Ireland but driving cars which were originally registered in Poland for example?

javaboy

Johnny Utah wrote: »

If they are coming down strict on the nct, then it is very hard to reconcile this with other more serious offences (no vrt/tax) which are still overlooked, particularly in rural areas.

I wouldn't consider no VRT/tax as more serious offences than no NCT. Regardless of what you might think of the NCT, it does have some element of safety involved. A banger with no brakes can be fully paid up for NCT and tax but won't pass the NCT. So which is the worse offence?

People complain here all the time about the Guards acting as tax collectors and now the younger Templemore graduates start enforcing something which is about safety (the NCT) for once and there's more complaining.

seamus

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No, the point is that there are thousands of east european cars in ireland at the moment with no tax, no vrt, and definitely no nct. I know that guards have been picking up uk vrt dodgers, but they seem to leave the eastern european cars alone for some reason.

Well, you see they need a certain amount of evidene to take the vehicle on the side of the road.

If they stop a UK reg car, chances are the driver will have a heavy Irish accent and when asked to show his licence, will show an Irish driving licence with an Irish address. Since it's an offence for any Irish resident to drive a vehicle in Ireland without VRT paid on it, the Garda is well in his rights to take the car.

If they stop an eastern european car, they'll get an eastern european man/woman with an eastern european licence & address. Thus, they can't prove whether or not VRT is due.

They would also find it impossible to enforce any requirement to produce details at a Garda station. Until we log all foreign vehicles and track them, resident foreign drivers on foreign licences can't really be stopped and brought to book because we can't prove that they're resident foreigners.

Johnny Utah

Of course, if the Irish driver carried proof of a Ni address, then they couldn't seize the car.

On the other hand, I've seen the same East European cars driving around a particular area for a good while. If the guards were serious about vrt, why don't they monitor these cars, attach them to an address, and prosecute them for the offences mentioned. These people are working in Ireland for a couple of years- they're not tourists just here on summer holidays.

Re foreign driving licences: that's just another vexcuse to drive like an ass on our roads as they're immune from penalty points.

Guy:Incognito

It' s funny how no one seems to have a problem with the MOT or any other car teast all the European countries have, but instead ignore that they exist and rant about an "extra Irsih tax".

rambler924

Bendihorse wrote: »

Iv got a 04 Car, newly registered in the state in about October last year... Its been taxed and everything ok, but i haven't been called for NCT. Do i wait for a letter or what happens?

The information data systems used by the VRT, Car Tax and NCT are not interlinked, so if you have not brought your registration document to your local NCT centre for them to input it onto their system you will never get an appointment letter. You usually get an appointment very quickly and sometimes you will be given it while they are putting it on the system for you.

Johnny Utah

:eek:

javaboy wrote: »

I wouldn't consider no VRT/tax as more serious offences than no NCT. Regardless of what you might think of the NCT, it does have some element of safety involved. A banger with no brakes can be fully paid up for NCT and tax but won't pass the NCT. So which is the worse offence?

People complain here all the time about the Guards acting as tax collectors and now the younger Templemore graduates start enforcing something which is about safety (the NCT) for once and there's more complaining.

A banger with no brakes:eek:

:eek:




Anything like that shouldn't be on the road at all, it could be prosecuted under the RTA anyway.


What about nearly new cars which happen to be defective/unsafe, but are too new to be tested by nct?



The fact is it is a form of revenue collection.
The truth is that often people switch parts just for the nct test, and then switch the defective parts back after the test:eek:
I mean what happens then in an accident... oh don't worry my car is ok- Ive got an NCT cert:rolleyes:

Johnny Utah

@ OP: Get the motor tax asap, book in for nct, and explain the situation to the Garda that you're going away soon. He may not prosecute. Even if he does, just show the judge your tax and new nct cert (if you're still waiting on test show the nct letter), and you should get away with a small fine. If you're out of the country at the time of the hearing, get a relative or solicitor to bring those documents to court.

seamus

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The fact is it is a form of revenue collection.
The truth is that often people switch parts just for the nct test, and then switch the defective parts back after the test:eek:
I mean what happens then in an accident... oh don't worry my car is ok- Ive got an NCT cert:rolleyes:

Defective new vehicles and people switching parts are in the minority. For the most part, the NCT forces people to attempt some sort of maintenance in their vehicles.

My only gripe is that it's not performed often enough and it's not accessible enough. Cars can easily fall into a state of horrible disrepair in the two years it takes to test them. They replace all their bulbs, new tyres, new brakes, get an NCT cert and six months later after they've driven the **** out of it, it's a rust bucket. But of course they're NCT'd for another 18 months.

It should be every year, minimum. And any garage can get licenced to do it. You drive into the garage without appointment, you pay them a fixed fee and they test you. If you fail, they can fix and restest you (for free) on the spot.

When you pass, you can claim your fee back from the Government. If you decide to scrap it, the garage scraps it and gets paid by the Government.

Simple.

Guy:Incognito

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The fact is it is a form of revenue collection.
The truth is that often people switch parts just for the nct test, and then switch the defective parts back after the test:eek:
I mean what happens then in an accident... oh don't worry my car is ok- Ive got an NCT cert:rolleyes:

Why no anti MOT rant?

What can any test do about people who cheat in this manner? Would you like th eGovernment to provide everyone with a personal mechanic that hey have to have in the car 24/7 to make sure the dont cheat?

Stekelly wrote: »

It' s funny how no one seems to have a problem with the MOT or any other car teast all the European countries have, but instead ignore that they exist and rant about an "extra Irsih tax".

javaboy

Johnny Utah wrote: »

:eek:



A banger with no brakes:eek:

:eek:




Anything like that shouldn't be on the road at all, it could be prosecuted under the RTA anyway.

Obviously a car like that shouldn't be on the road. Before the NCT though, there was no systematic way of rooting out these deathtraps.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

What about nearly new cars which happen to be defective/unsafe, but are too new to be tested by nct?

I think the 4 years limit is there because newer cars are more likely to be roadworthy than older cars. Obviously it can't cover all eventualities but NCT for cars older than 4 years is better than nothing at all. Anyway, if they tested all cars including brand new ones, you would have even more complaints about "revenue generation".

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The fact is it is a form of revenue collection.

I love this one. Do you seriously think that if the government wanted a really easy way of getting €49 every second year from a reasonably large proportion of the public that the NCT is the easiest way to do that? The NCT has its own overheads and there are much less complicated forms of "revenue generation". A small west link toll hike would probably make more money.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The truth is that often people switch parts just for the nct test, and then switch the defective parts back after the test:eek:
I mean what happens then in an accident... oh don't worry my car is ok- Ive got an NCT cert:rolleyes:

If you look through this forum you'll notice that even NCT supporters don't suggest it is a certificate of roadworthiness. It just says that on this given day, this car passed these minimum standards. Similarly, the driving test just says that on this day, this person passed this minimum standard. People switch parts for their NCT and people drive differently for the test. There's not much you can do to counteract either but there you go.

I'm sure people do all sorts of underhand things to pass the NCT but that doesn't mean it should be scrapped. It's better than nothing.

It's a really simplistic view to suggest that anyone would say "don't worry my car is ok- Ive got an NCT cert" in the event of an accident. I'm not even going to argue that one.

Johnny Utah

Well, why are some guards not enforcing the nct, while other guards are willing to go to court over it?


What makes it even more of a joke, is that there are foreign cars on our roads which shouldn't be on our roads, but a blind eye is thrown to them, while the Irish motorist- the easy target- is taken to court for no nct... where's the consistency there?

javaboy

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Well, why are some guards not enforcing the nct, while other guards are willing to go to court over it?


What makes it even more of a joke, is that there are foreign cars on our roads which shouldn't be on our roads, but a blind eye is thrown to them, while the Irish motorist- the easy target- is taken to court for no nct... where's the consistency there?

I can't answer for the Gardai enforcing/not enforcing NCT and I know there's a lot of inconsistencies in the application of the law but for the price of one fill of petrol every two years, the Irish motorist won't have to worry about being taken to court for no NCT.

The foreign cars will eventually be better regulated but for now I think an imperfect NCT system is better than none at all.

cc

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Well, why are some guards not enforcing the nct, while other guards are willing to go to court over it?


What makes it even more of a joke, is that there are foreign cars on our roads which shouldn't be on our roads, but a blind eye is thrown to them, while the Irish motorist- the easy target- is taken to court for no nct... where's the consistency there?

those foreigners stealing our women and driving on our roads......:cool:

Biro

NP14 wrote: »

I think the NCT is a bit of a piss-take in itself. Not necessary for insurance or Tax, not even mentioned by most Gardai on the roads.

I suggested to him that I would be able to have a letter of appointment in 10 days, but no, he was determined to get me to court.

Look for an NCT appointment nationwide. Take a day off work and drive to where ever it's free. No where is to far to go in Ireland in an emergency!

Tea drinker

cc wrote: »

those foreigners stealing our women and driving on our roads......:cool:

Yeah yeah! The big d!cked bastards!