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Homeless / Begging community in Sligo

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    #62
    GG66
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭GG66


    JohnCleary wrote: »
    I went down yesterday to the bank and there was a woman AND a fella there. The fella was right outside the door.

    I went to the ATM first and got my monies. As I turned around I couldn't help but look at him. He smiled at me, said "Hello" and reached his arm out

    I replied with "Conas a tá tu" and walked off. Oh i'm going to hell

    Was that before or after you slapped him for trying to rob you..?

    Should we admire these people as true entrepreneurs?

    They move to a new country and find their way to a small provincial town of Sligo (City :rolleyes:). They instantly recognise a market niche. They manage to sell all sorts of s**t to drunk or merry people think they need... flashing keyrings, silly flashing hats, plastic shamrock.

    They then have the sheer brilliance to get people to give them money for no reason at all. Simply sit on the ground with one hidden leg or stand by the ATM with your hand out saying hello with a smile...(not even a sales pitch required).

    Running a cash business, I expect they honour, respect, admire and emulate our Taoiseach and forget/neglect/don't bother to declare tax on gifts or donations (allegedly). Most likely they've learned to cover their tracks and don't lodge it to a bank account or accept or deal in foreign currency.

    ok, they work unsociable hours and may take some abuse from the public.. but nothing worse than you would experience working behind the counter in abrakebabra

    These people should be taken on by the Sligo Entreprise Board as mentors to budding entrepreneurs....

    Bottom line is there is a market for what they're doing.. if people don't give them money they will stop doing it... There should be no guilt in walking away or turning down their offer.

    Won't it be interesting as their family grows to watch their business intensify and expand?


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    #63
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 46,095 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Any more of the crap that was contained in the last few posts and there will be more than yer man taking a break from here.

    Im disgusted at those comments and I will ask basquille to take a look at this thread as my blood is at boiling point.


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    #64
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,891 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    This is a thread I have always had a problem with. Did it originally serve a purpose? :confused:

    Locked!


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    #65
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,891 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    I've reopened this thread due to one of users having a post on the subject he'd wish to put out there.

    But this thread will be closely moderated as it descended into pure trash when it was open.. so I've deleted a lot of posts out of it and let's try and keep our views objective and ease up on petty namecalling.


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    #66
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    I was on my way to the bank today after work and spied the all too familiar sight of a window cleaner in the middle of the road waiting to polish my window for me - how kind. Thankfully the lights were green so I didn't have to pretend not to see him..... Anyway, got to Stephen St, and parked the pimp mobile and went to get a parking ticket. Who did I spy only none other than our faithful entrepreneurs, yes my friends the street beggers. I walked past one sitting on the ground and I had to tell myself to keep shtum and not utter insults whilst she mumbled some pitiful sort of pathetic line. Got past her and I thought Great, that’s that done.
    Not so my friends. It appears that these shrude business people have found a loophole in the market. When you leave the bank now, as we all know you have the pleasure of one of these people looking up at you from the ground with a pitiful face and a paper cup out looking for change and uttering some mumblings to you. Delightful though it is, I'd rather peace and quiet thankyouverymuch.

    Time was when you could see them ahead of you and cross the street to avoid them, not so anymore grasshoppers, they have now doubled scrounging efforts and are now both sides of the street, the bank and the library. How can these people be let away with this tactless and blatant begging? and for so long? If you are an asylum seeker or similar, you are entitled to benefits and state assistance which we are already paying for. Is it not enough that we already pay for this through taxes that we have to have them practically try to guilt trip you into giving them your money!!

    If you are a charity or a local organization and you want to collect outside of Tesco or Dunnes you need to get a permit, and yet these people can sit anywhere and everywhere they please and have their cups thrust in our faces begging. It’s a disgrace! (you can see my cynicism has turned to anger here). How can they get away with this?

    I'm not a racist or narrow minded by any means, but these people are invading our free space in the town, and its getting worse. You can no longer freely roam around aimlessly without being accosted by these people, not to mention chuggers on O'Connell St, whom I REFUSE to give any money too. (That’s another story though) This is not about the individual situations here, it’s a general point about the way things have progressed over time. Seriously what’s next, sitting on our doorsteps?

    Is it a case the Gardai can do something and just aren’t bothered?


    I know this thread was closed previously, but as the mods have been good enough to reopen this for me so I could have my say about this perhaps we can have a good discussion about this one without resorting to petty insults and having this locked again?


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    #67
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    My feelings are, they have a right to sit on the ground begging for money.

    I have a right not to give them any of mine if I don't want to.

    Getting annoyed over it is a waste of my time.


    As it is, I've solved the problem entirely (personally) by cycling where I need to go. There's no windsheild to have someone try and clean, and I'm (generally) not on footpaths where the beggars are.


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    #68
    garth-marenghi
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭garth-marenghi


    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    I was on my way to the bank today after work and spied the all too familiar sight of a window cleaner in the middle of the road waiting to polish my window for me - how kind. Thankfully the lights were green so I didn't have to pretend not to see him..... Anyway, got to Stephen St, and parked the pimp mobile and went to get a parking ticket. Who did I spy only none other than our faithful entrepreneurs, yes my friends the street beggers. I walked past one sitting on the ground and I had to tell myself to keep shtum and not utter insults whilst she mumbled some pitiful sort of pathetic line. Got past her and I thought Great, that’s that done.
    Not so my friends. It appears that these shrude business people have found a loophole in the market. When you leave the bank now, as we all know you have the pleasure of one of these people looking up at you from the ground with a pitiful face and a paper cup out looking for change and uttering some mumblings to you. Delightful though it is, I'd rather peace and quiet thankyouverymuch.

    Time was when you could see them ahead of you and cross the street to avoid them, not so anymore grasshoppers, they have now doubled scrounging efforts and are now both sides of the street, the bank and the library. How can these people be let away with this tactless and blatant begging? and for so long? If you are an asylum seeker or similar, you are entitled to benefits and state assistance which we are already paying for. Is it not enough that we already pay for this through taxes that we have to have them practically try to guilt trip you into giving them your money!!

    If you are a charity or a local organization and you want to collect outside of Tesco or Dunnes you need to get a permit, and yet these dregs of our society can sit anywhere and everywhere they please and have their cups thrust in our faces begging. It’s a disgrace! (you can see my cynicism has turned to anger here). How can they get away with this?

    I'm not a racist or narrow minded by any means, but these people are invading our free space in the town, and its getting worse. You can no longer freely roam around aimlessly without being accosted by these people, not to mention chuggers on O'Connell St, whom I REFUSE to give any money too. (That’s another story though) This is not about the individual situations here, it’s a general point about the way things have progressed over time. Seriously what’s next, sitting on our doorsteps?

    Is it a case the Gardai can do something and just aren’t bothered?


    I know this thread was closed previously, but as the mods have been good enough to reopen this for me so I could have my say about this perhaps we can have a good discussion about this one without resorting to petty insults and having this locked again?

    Im glad you got your wish for the thread be reopened and we can have that good debate debate you are looking for without any insults etc, The use of the term "dregs of our society" is hardly a term of affection:rolleyes:, i suspect it wont be long before this thread will be closed again


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    #69
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    I can understand a lot of what you are saying Mac but I just want to respond to some of your points if I may.
    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    Time was when you could see them ahead of you and cross the street to avoid them, not so anymore grasshoppers, they have now doubled scrounging efforts and are now both sides of the street, the bank and the library. How can these people be let away with this tactless and blatant begging? and for so long?

    Ok, I did not know the people begging were on both sides of the street and I take your point that prior to them doing this you could just cross the street. But if you don't want to give them some change, how hard is it just to walk buy them anyway. Anytime I have seen them they just put out their cup and look for change so you can just give them some change or walk by them, it's not that hard to do either. They are not aggressive beggers (not that I have seen anyway. For example, I have never seen them stop somebody on the street and look for money or follow someone down the street. They just sit there, so as I said, it's very easy to give them some change or keep walking.
    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    If you are an asylum seeker or similar, you are entitled to benefits and state assistance which we are already paying for. Is it not enough that we already pay for this through taxes that we have to have them practically try to guilt trip you into giving them your money!!

    I don't know what asylum seekers receive in benifits but I would imagine it is not very much. I'm not excusing begging but we should not be crying about the fact that asylum seekers receive these benefits through our taxes. They are here now and it's our duty as a country to look after them.
    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    If you are a charity or a local organization and you want to collect outside of Tesco or Dunnes you need to get a permit, and yet these dregs of our society can sit anywhere and everywhere they please and have their cups thrust in our faces begging. It’s a disgrace! (you can see my cynicism has turned to anger here). How can they get away with this?

    I can see you are frustrated by the begging and thats fair enough, a lot of people are. In a perfect world nobody would have to beg but to refer to the as dregs of our society is a bit much imo. Don't get me wrong I'm not a member of any PC brigade or anything like that but in fairness that reference got my back up.
    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    I'm not a racist or narrow minded by any means, but these people are invading our free space in the town, and its getting worse. You can no longer freely roam around aimlessly without being accosted by these people, not to mention chuggers on O'Connell St, whom I REFUSE to give any money too. (That’s another story though) This is not about the individual situations here, it’s a general point about the way things have progressed over time. Seriously what’s next, sitting on our doorsteps?

    I actually think the people on O' Connoll St looking for people to sign up to charities are far more annoying. Now, they can be hard to avoid at times, especially if you make eye contact with one of them.
    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    Is it a case the Gardai can do something and just aren’t bothered?

    This is the thing Mac. I'm not blaming the Gardai for people begging but how often do you see a Garda walk around the centre of the town. Not very often in my experience. I've always been of the understanding that Gardai foot patrols around any town during the day was a deterent to crime or wrongdoing. However, due to lack of Gardai on the beat, the people begging know they are free to take up their positions without fear of being moved on. Remember, we are also paying the Gardai's wages with our tax money too, so maybe we should make more complaints to them and let them deal with the situation.
    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    I know this thread was closed previously, but as the mods have been good enough to reopen this for me so I could have my say about this perhaps we can have a good discussion about this one without resorting to petty insults and having this locked again?

    Agreed, the thread did get pretty bad before it was closed. Fair play to Basquille for reopening it, I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that would like to discuss the topic.


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    #70
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 46,095 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    garth-marenghi wrote: »
    Im glad you got your wish for the thread be reopened and we can have that good debate debate you are looking for without any insults etc, The use of the term "dregs of our society" is hardly a term of affection:rolleyes:, i suspect it wont be long before this thread will be closed again
    Well I dont see you debating too much with those comments.

    Just to clarify a point. Both basquille and myself approved the post before reopening the thread. Now lets all settle down and post in a mature fashion.


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    #71
    garth-marenghi
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭garth-marenghi


    muffler wrote: »
    Well I dont see you debating too much with those comments.

    Just to clarify a point. Both basquille and myself approved the post before reopening the thread. Now lets all settle down and post in a mature fashion.

    To be honest i didnt really want to get involved in a thread which seems to consist a lot of posts from people who are so offended by the sight of some of the most marginalised and impoverished people resorting to begging on the streets,
    I was just making the point that the poster had requested for the thread to be reopened for rational debate and then used terms like "dregs of society", hence the sarcastic smiley i used


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    #72
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    First off, I've amended my post and removed the 'Dregs' comment. It was put in as I was venting my frustration. Admittedly if I was as articulate as I'd like to be, I could have phrased it better. As I've said I'd rather have a rational dicussion about this without resorting to petty insults; hence removed, and apologies to anyone whom it upset.

    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    Ok, I did not know the people begging were on both sides of the street and I take your point that prior to them doing this you could just cross the street. But if you don't want to give them some change, how hard is it just to walk buy them anyway. Anytime I have seen them they just put out their cup and look for change so you can just give them some change or walk by them, it's not that hard to do either. They are not aggressive beggers (not that I have seen anyway. For example, I have never seen them stop somebody on the street and look for money or follow someone down the street. They just sit there, so as I said, it's very easy to give them some change or keep walking.

    For now yes, but I see the trend increasing. First there was one, now two, who knows what the next step could be. Agressive begging, Street Tolls?
    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    I don't know what asylum seekers receive in benifits but I would imagine it is not very much. I'm not excusing begging but we should not be crying about the fact that asylum seekers receive these benefits through our taxes. They are here now and it's our duty as a country to look after them.

    Yes they are here, and it is our duty to look after them. I'm not complaining about the fact that taxes go towards it, its the fact that our taxes go towards it, and they still continue to do this. According to the irish refugee council website, figures to the end of 2006 show that there was over 6000 asylum seekers in Ireland. If the state payments are not enough, they would all be on the streets........... wouldn't they?

    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    I can see you are frustrated by the begging and thats fair enough, a lot of people are. In a perfect world nobody would have to beg but to refer to the as dregs of our society is a bit much imo. Don't get me wrong I'm not a member of any PC brigade or anything like that but in fairness that reference got my back up.

    I take your point on this. My apologies and I've removed the comment.

    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    I actually think the people on O' Connoll St looking for people to sign up to charities are far more annoying. Now, they can be hard to avoid at times, especially if you make eye contact with one of them.

    Couldn't agree more. Clearly a charity organisation is not in dire need of funding if they can afford to hire people to do some agressive selling all over the country for them, plus the advertising campaign on the TV. I couldn't bring myself to give them money. If I did, I'd feel that it went towards the cost of the wages or marketing, and that is a waste of money.

    Cancer research or the hospice. Something like that I would gladly give money to (If I had it)

    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    This is the thing Mac. I'm not blaming the Gardai for people begging but how often do you see a Garda walk around the centre of the town. Not very often in my experience. I've always been of the understanding that Gardai foot patrols around any town during the day was a deterent to crime or wrongdoing. However, due to lack of Gardai on the beat, the people begging know they are free to take up their positions without fear of being moved on. Remember, we are also paying the Gardai's wages with our tax money too, so maybe we should make more complaints to them and let them deal with the situation.

    Yes, the complaints should be made to them. People will continue to break the law if there is no comeuppance for them. Same goes here, and its clear. They've spotted a flaw with the Gardai's enforcment in sligo and are taking advantage of it

    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    Agreed, the thread did get pretty bad before it was closed. Fair play to Basquille for reopening it, I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that would like to discuss the topic.

    Yes, and thanks to Basquille for this. I've read a lot of threads on this board and the one thing I've seen is that all the regular posters can discuss things in a rational fashion. Bring on a proper debate / discussion


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    #73
    CantGetNoSleep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭CantGetNoSleep


    muffler wrote: »
    Any more of the crap that was contained in the last few posts and there will be more than yer man taking a break from here.

    Im disgusted at those comments and I will ask basquille to take a look at this thread as my blood is at boiling point.
    Relax you little gyppo, i'll bounce 5 cents off you on me way out if you stay quiet

    F*cking beggers, they're everywhere these days


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    #74
    tuppence
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    :eek:
    Hears the sound of a can of worms been opened.


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    #75
    Gillie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Gillie


    tuppence wrote: »
    :eek:
    Hears the sound of a can of worms been opened.

    Sigh!
    It must be great when they make it easy for them..
    Like shootin fish in a barrel!:cool:


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    #76
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,891 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    CantGetNoSleep banned from the Sligo forum.. kids these days, eh?!


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    #77
    Gillie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Gillie


    Good call!
    How they got up to 800+ posts is a mystery!


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    #78
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,891 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    He's not a regular (AFAIK) so I'd say the topic popped up on his radar from the main page..

    .. expect a Feedback thread from him shortly! ;):D


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    #79
    Gillie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Gillie


    basquille wrote: »
    He's not a regular (AFAIK) so I'd say the topic popped up on his radar from the main page..

    .. expect a Feedback thread from him shortly! ;):D

    *rushes over to feedback for a laugh!*:D


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    #80
    GG66
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭GG66


    Do we know that these people are asylum seekers? If not then using this term is not accurate and shouldn't be used.

    Charity Muggers (chuggers) are a successful if controversial method of raising money.. Every Charity needs to spend money to make money.. Fact! Larger charities have large marketing budgets. For e.g. a mailing to 10,000 people could easily cost 20k. They employ different marketing methods and ways of doing so and this is one that works. Charities pay full time staff so it's not unreasonable that they pay part time fundraisers..

    You may not like it, (I don't) so why not send an email to the Charity in question.. if they feel they're losing more support than their gaining through it they may decide against it.


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    #81
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    GG66 wrote: »
    Do we know that these people are asylum seekers? If not then using this term is not accurate and shouldn't be used.

    Charity Muggers (chuggers) are a successful if controversial method of raising money.. Every Charity needs to spend money to make money.. Fact! Larger charities have large marketing budgets. For e.g. a mailing to 10,000 people could easily cost 20k. They employ different marketing methods and ways of doing so and this is one that works. Charities pay full time staff so it's not unreasonable that they pay part time fundraisers..

    You may not like it, (I don't) so why not send an email to the Charity in question.. if they feel they're losing more support than their gaining through it they may decide against it.

    I don't know if they are asylum seekers, its just a guess.

    Chuggers? Emailing their organisation? I doubt it'd make any difference considering the amount of revenue they would generate for them. They may be a charity but they are trying to turn a profit. No, I don't like it. My main gripe with them is that I could not donate money to them knowing that my hard earned cash is only going to pay someones wages and admin costs and such and not actually helping anyone. I know that this may not be factually correct but its enough for me to warrant giving my money to a cause that does not employ such (at times) bullyboy or guilt tripping tactics.


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    #82
    GG66
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭GG66


    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    I don't know if they are asylum seekers, its just a guess.

    Chuggers? Emailing their organisation? I doubt it'd make any difference considering the amount of revenue they would generate for them. They may be a charity but they are trying to turn a profit. No, I don't like it. My main gripe with them is that I could not donate money to them knowing that my hard earned cash is only going to pay someones wages and admin costs and such and not actually helping anyone. I know that this may not be factually correct but its enough for me to warrant giving my money to a cause that does not employ such (at times) bullyboy or guilt tripping tactics.

    Charities by definition don't try to turn a profit. They do need to raise money though and that takes time... and time cost money and so on...

    All charities have admin costs and the more efficient ones are about 10%. The money spent to get money in is an investment. It's simply not possible for all money a charity collects to got o those it's intended for...

    I would never give money to chuggers either. It's not smart practice to give bank details to a stranger on the street..

    chuggers are effective so they're used. There are few formal complaints about them. My point about emailing them is Charities may take a different view about their worth if they find the perception of their organisation is being negatively affected.. if everyone who dislikes them got in touch that is..

    Personally they don't bother me that much, I just smile and say "No Thanks". Same with aforementioned beggers. Getting annoyed just isn't worthwhile...unless I'm in a bad mood already


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    #83
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    GG66 wrote: »

    You may not like it, (I don't) so why not send an email to the Charity in question.. if they feel they're losing more support than their gaining through it they may decide against it.

    But then they'll have your email address and will start spamming you for money...


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    #84
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Also useful for telling that twunt at work he's a twunt.


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    #85
    GG66
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭GG66


    brianthebard wrote: »
    But then they'll have your email address and will start spamming you for money...

    Are you joking?? In case not, I doubt they would. Larger charities should be well aware of data protection laws and won't email you without permission. They're entitled to use your email to respond to your initial query.

    you can always just ask to be removed from their email list if they don't do so you can report them to the data protection commissioner..


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    #86
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    GG66 wrote: »
    Are you joking?? In case not, I doubt they would. Larger charities should be well aware of data protection laws and won't email you without permission. They're entitled to use your email to respond to your initial query.

    you can always just ask to be removed from their email list if they don't do so you can report them to the data protection commissioner..

    If you use a web page submission form and put in your email address, they might have something like 'by clicking on submit, you are agreeing to our privacy policy' or something like that. They usually say in their privacy policy that they will contact you via email with new offers...... bla blah blah


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    #87
    GG66
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭GG66


    mcgowan.b wrote: »
    If you use a web page submission form and put in your email address, they might have something like 'by clicking on submit, you are agreeing to our privacy policy' or something like that. They usually say in their privacy policy that they will contact you via email with new offers...... bla blah blah

    Who does this? have you a specific example of a Charity doing this?
    Are we going off topic?


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    #88
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    I'd a guy from Sligo Rovers around begging at the house the other day - well, technically, he was selling tickets for a raffle - but I fail to see the difference.


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    #89
    gustavo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭gustavo


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I'd a guy from Sligo Rovers around begging at the house the other day - well, technically, he was selling tickets for a raffle - but I fail to see the difference.
    :rolleyes:Theres a big difference between both as you well know.


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    #90
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    gustavo wrote: »
    :rolleyes:Theres a big difference between both as you well know.

    Is that why they're often called "Charity Raffles"?


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    #91
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Is that why they're often called "Charity Raffles"?

    Would you class them as churglars even though they're not a charity?


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