Airplanes Capabilities

bobcar61

I wasn't sure what to name the thread but I'm wondering whats the biggest type of passenger aircraft that can land and take of with a 4000ft runway.Is the only jet aircraft capable of that a BAE-146 or even a Fokker 100

If anyone has information this,your replies would be appreciated.

Thanks

FlutterinBantam

Bobby..hey:D what can I say..extremely vague question, as take off capabilities are governed by a great deal more influences than runway length

Wind.. wind direction
RWY condition
Obstacles en route
Weight of aircraft
Aircraft performance ..whether STOL or otherwise??

So:D if you could narrow things down a bit maybe someone here with more experience than myself could help you.

pclancy

http://www.landrum-brown.com/MasterPlans/PVD/Final%20mp%20exhibits/CHIII/EX_III-1-9_Rwy-Length.pdf

peasant

I'd say the question should be:

What is the minimum runway lenght for an airport to be deemed jet-capable?

Would a 4000 ft runway be long enough for a Boing 737 or any other common commercial jet?


And in the case of Sligo specifically ...what is the point of extending the runway (destroying an natural sandbank area and the livelyhood of several shellfish farmers) when jets still can't land on it ?

Right, bobcar?

And also ...would a long runway be enough on its own, or would said airport also need a taxi way ?

This would be the runway in question ...with a proposed extension by ~200 m

http://www.sligoairport.com/pilot_services/aerodrome_tech.php

Oilrig

Thread drift.

What's the latest status with the extension in Sligo?

Lived up there for a while, loved it.

cp251

Galway airport is almost exactly 4000 feet. It can take 146's. That would be about the upper limit of a jet transport aircraft. There is a difference between what is possible and what is legal. So you could undoubtedly get a bigger or heavier aircraft out of Galway but not legally.

bobcar61

I don't think the runway in Sligo airport is going to be extended and tbh i really don't think it is necessary to extend it.An ATR 72 already operates out of the airport to Manchester and I'm nearly sure there isn't the demand for any other flights out of Sligo and I even think the Manchester flight is going to waste especially when Knock airport is just down the road.

There was even discussions about building a new airport about 10 miles south of Sligo,but thats just a daft idea,it would just be a waste of money

deaddonkey

cp251 wrote: »

Galway airport is almost exactly 4000 feet. It can take 146's. That would be about the upper limit of a jet transport aircraft. There is a difference between what is possible and what is legal. So you could undoubtedly get a bigger or heavier aircraft out of Galway but not legally.

yeah exactly, some clown put a 727 into aspen when it was a gravel runway just to prove it could be done.

i believe the plane was dismantled because there was no way it was taking off again.

Neworder79

Depends on fuel and payload weight/balance. For example the 146 can't operate out of Galway fully loaded, so seating is restricted for long trips to lower weight and thus take off distance. I believe this is part of the reason they are routing the Galway - European flights via Waterford.

There are many other factors which determine whether a certain aircraft can safely operate from an airport, such as runway width, topography, obstacle clearance, presence of threshold / runway end safety areas, adequate taxi-ways, turn-pads, apron and handling. On top of that modern navigation aids, lighting and instrument landing systems are necessary for poor weather operations.



Sligos current location on a narrow spit with water either side is fine for general aviation (wonderful views) but it will always be severely restricted for commercial use, which is why the IAA are worried after the Euroceltic accident. Building a new airport in the county doesn't make much sense when a 2400m runway with all of the previously mentioned infrastructure already exists 3 miles south of the Sligo border on the N17, which is being upgraded to dual carriageway in the coming years.

ronnie3585

cp251 wrote: »

Galway airport is almost exactly 4000 feet. It can take 146's. That would be about the upper limit of a jet transport aircraft. There is a difference between what is possible and what is legal. So you could undoubtedly get a bigger or heavier aircraft out of Galway but not legally.

I dont thing it's legality that is preventing bigger jets going into Galway, it's the capability is the aircraft. The 146's are unable to take off out of there at MTOW. Similarly with the ATR's every time they take off and and they are in the limits - captain only landings, there are times when they are unable to take off at MTOW depending on wind, density pressure and runway condition.

pclancy

What kind of load levels have aer arran had on the sligo-man and sligo-dub routes just out of interest?

ch252

ronnie3585 wrote: »

I dont thing it's legality that is preventing bigger jets going into Galway, it's the capability is the aircraft. The 146's are unable to take off out of there at MTOW. Similarly with the ATR's every time they take off and and they are in the limits - captain only landings, there are times when they are unable to take off at MTOW depending on wind, density pressure and runway condition.

Actually, surprisingly enough, I noticed that the atr 42-300's can often vacate alpha with little backtrack on landing, and the atr 72 has about 10 metres to spare on takeoff!!:eek:
Well thats what it was like when I was in the tower...

Darragh

Neworder79

[What kind of load levels have aer arran had on the sligo-man and sligo-dub routes just out of interest?]

MAN - SXL around 39% for Nov, Dec judging from UK CAA stats.

highlydebased

peasant wrote: »

And also ...would a long runway be enough on its own, or would said airport also need a taxi way ?

Well its going to need a taxiyway in order for aircraft to get from the apron to the runway and vice versa...!

Biro

I like Sligo airport! You can walk almost onto the runway for some decent pictures!
Weren't they thinking of building another runway perpendicular (almost) to the current one? The prevailing winds there are crosswinds aren't they?
Bit of a bitch of an airport to land in with any level of wind about!

JSK 252

Most jet airplanes can land and take off from a mile and a bit long runway which is say 1800m however the fully loaded factor varies from plane to plane with some planes needing more than 1800m like the 747. Thats only a generalisation.

The craziest thing I ever saw was a boeing 737 landing on cork airports shorter runway 07/25 which is 1310m but in that case the plane had little or no touch down area to aim for. It basically landed on the start of the runway! I was lucky to see this when driving into the airport.

*Kol*

Most narrow body jets (B737, A320 ) seem to need 2000-2700 to take off at MTOW.

The A318 needs about 1350m fully loaded. BA have announced a new service from London city to New York using an A318!!

FlutterinBantam

32 passengers and a stop at Snn

FlutterinBantam

Biro wrote: »

I like Sligo airport! You can walk almost onto the runway for some decent pictures!
Weren't they thinking of building another runway perpendicular (almost) to the current one? The prevailing winds there are crosswinds aren't they?
Bit of a bitch of an airport to land in with any level of wind about!

:eek:A runway in the sky???

*Kol*

Going west only

FlutterinBantam

'Twoud indeed be a long trip goin east:rolleyes:

*Kol*

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

'Twoud indeed be a long trip goin east:rolleyes:

I meant the fuel stop is on the westward leg only :rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam

*Kol* wrote: »

Most narrow body jets (B737, A320 ) seem to need 2000-2700 to take off at MTOW.

The A318 needs about 1350m fully loaded. BA have announced a new service from London city to New York using an A318!!

Only one way(West) to get between those two destinations:rolleyes:

*Kol*

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Only one way(West) to get between those two destinations:rolleyes:

I think that's a given:rolleyes:

My point is that it only stops in SNN on the way not on the way back from NY. Did you get that part?

FlutterinBantam

*Kol* wrote: »

Most narrow body jets (B737, A320 ) seem to need 2000-2700 to take off at MTOW.

The A318 needs about 1350m fully loaded. BA have announced a new service from London city to New York using an A318!!

LCY _jfk is the flight YOU mentioned i believe

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

32 passengers and a stop at Snn

My reply to your post

*Kol* wrote: »

Going west only

Your response...(note no mention of JFK -LCY)

*Kol* wrote: »

I meant the fuel stop is on the westward leg only :rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Only one way(West) to get between those two destinations:rolleyes:

My response to the flight YOU mentioned.

At no stage did you refer to JFK-LCY until the very last reply:D

*Kol*

Ahhh...My bad. I guess? I'll be more specific in future.:p

FlutterinBantam

Good man ,good man, sorry for being so pedantic.

Auld Roundy won't have problems to-morrow.

*Kol*

He'll thank us for keeping the thread going. Bravo us!!:D

Tenger

*Kol* wrote: »

The A318 needs about 1350m fully loaded. BA have announced a new service from London city to New York using an A318!!

I suspect that this idea comes from Willie Walsh. You may not believe it but EI looked at doing this in early 2001. A launch date of summer 2002 was the idea. Premier loads at that time were so high on longhaul flights (esp 1200 departure to JFK) that they thought an early morning A320 departure for JFK would be popular. They were looking at approx 45-50 Premier seats in total onboard.

Unfortunately things did not pan out as hoped and the post 9/11 aviation slump killed the idea. Now we have EI with a A330 leaving at 1030 everyday and another at 1300.

The fuel stop in SNN may allow the business pax to clear INS,which is a great selling point. Against prevailing winds the A318 needs to top up its fuel at SNN which is limited by the take-off limits at LCY(always loved that approach on a windy day in a Bae146). On the return the winds are with it and the landing weight will be lower so shouldn't be aproblem.

Biro

There is a company doing this already... I'll post back when I find it.

*Kol*

Biro wrote: »

There is a company doing this already... I'll post back when I find it.

Privatair fly an A319 in all business config to New York from Germany.