Champions League bigger than the World Cup...

Rockee

I'm sure some of you guys caught Dunphys comment last night after the Liverpool match that the Champions League has now eclipsed the World Cup. Could he be right? Could the financial gain you receive playing for a club you only signed for 2 seasons ago who you helped to win the European Cup eclipse potentially lifting the World Cup for the country you were born and bred in?

chopperbyrne

No, not at all.

dubmick

Ferguson has been saying this for years.

pd101

No. Its virtually the same teams every year in the CL, whereas in the World Cup even the "smaller" teams have a chance of doing well. You can buy success in the CL.

mike65

I guess it depends what you want - the standard of football in the CL is higher than the WC thats for sure but far fewer intriguing games are likely to occure.

Mike.

Nalz

The CL is less predicable too

Galvasean

The CL will never eclipse the magic of the World Cup. The World Cup is a world wide event that attracts the attention of millions who don't usually follow football. The CL simply does not do this.

OPENROAD

From a supporting point of view, yes, actually for me the Community shield is more important to me than the World cup.


However taking my Arsenal cap off, the wc is still possibly bigger.

~Rebel~

I love the champions league, but when the world cup comes around im the happiest man on earth and glued to the TV for pretty much every game. Just the fact that its 5 weeks of pure hardcore non stop football pips the champions league for me. Always end up with a few great nights out of it as well from going ot the pub for all a particular days games, watchin em all back to back and then, depending on the quality of football/results being on a high for a night of drunken giddyness.

I the WC.

From the players POV, it depends on the player id say, as well as the country and club they play for. All in all id say world cup would be slightly ahead though still.

shane86

It probably depends on the player. For S Gerrard Im sure lifting the cup for his native city and boyhood club would be equally important to lifting a title with England. Wheras Id expect any Irish player and fan to rate the national team before all else.

OpenRoad- :rolleyes: X infinity

tbh Id even rate the Euro championships above the CL. Everyone with an interest in football will follow every qualifier from San Marino to Germany. Compare it to the CL, a Man U mate of mine couldnt be arsed watching one of the group games (cant recall who) that they were almost certain to win.

Nunu

OPENROAD wrote: »

From a supporting point of view, yes, actually for me the Community shield is more important to me than the World cup.


However taking my Arsenal cap off, the wc is still possibly bigger.

that's the second time in as many days i've seen you say this. So we know you are an Arsenal nut...are you Irish?

OPENROAD

Nunu wrote: »

that's the second time in as many days i've seen you say this. So we know you are an Arsenal nut...are you Irish?

Thread overlaps, yes am Irish, but just for some reason can't get excited about International football, like to see how our (Arsenal) players are doing, and will always watch the world cup, but for me International football is getting less important for the players, or that is how it seems.

Bounty Hunter

The CL has better teams and players in it but the World cup is bigger and I would say winning the WC means a lot more to anyone than the CL does.

PHB

The CL has better teams, better matches, better eeverything.
What it doesn't have is that it's spread out over the year, not over a 4 week period. If the CL was at the end of every season, it'd be an amazing event.

herbieflowers

True but it can never have national pride!

PHB

Yeh, but national pride pales in comparison to the passion club fans feel for their clubs.
That said, national pride is bigger which is good too.

evad_lhorg

the world cup excites me more to be honest. I have this in head head all the time that I cant wait for chamions league to start every season but it can be quite boring and depressing watching your team play crap a lot of the time. world cup is just fun to watch I think. I watch any match during the world cup but I couldnt give a crap about Schalke and porto or sevilla and fenerbache yet Id watch Tunisia v Saudi arabia in the world cup no worries

Melion

Id much rather Liverpool win the champions league than Ireland win the WC

estebancambias

I could understand someone from Catalonia making a comment like that about Barcelona, but I see no logic seeing as your from Shannon.

World Cup has more magic, has more emotion, more meaning, more history.

The very fact its once every four years makes it more important.

I can accept some people not having an interest in International Football, although I don't agree but wanting a franchise, a business to win the world cup more than your country is bull****.

_blank_

shane86 wrote: »

Id expect any Irish player and fan to rate the national team before all else.

Well, I, as an Irish football fan, certainly don't, tbh.

PHB wrote: »

Yeh, but national pride pales in comparison to the passion club fans feel for their clubs.

QFT.

Melion wrote: »

Id much rather Liverpool win the champions league than Ireland win the WC

I'd much rather Shels won their friendly against Pats on Friday than Ireland won the world cup.

By the way.

I love, LOVE, the Champions League. It is the absolute pinnacle of the sport I live and breathe.

shane86

Melion wrote: »

Id much rather Liverpool win the champions league than Ireland win the WC

:rolleyes:

So you cried buckets in 2005 and nearly collapsed from the emotion?

Personally I cheered my throat out and my joy was mainly fuelled by knowing how upset Man U heads would be. re if Ireland won the Euros/WC I probably wouldnt stop drinking and celebrating for 3 weeks and wouldnt give a **** if I lost my job.

And yes, I would have cried buckets.

Unless you are from Liverpool, and a new FIFA rule meant all players must be from the city itself, I really cant get over this bull.

estebancambias

Des, don't you claim to be like a staunch Irish fan and go to every game?

cson

Some really fantastic players never get to play at the World Cup. George Best and Ryan Giggs are two off the top of my head. Thats where the Champions League is the great leveller; if you are good enough, you will get to play in it. Giggsy has a CL medal for example.

_blank_

estebancambias wrote: »

Des, don't you claim to be like a staunch Irish fan and go to every game?

AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D:D:D:D

No.

estebancambias

Seriously? Damn.

In relation to your 'hahah' comment about the Shels friendly, putting that aside I can sort of understand your stance on supporting Shelbourne more than the National team. You pride yourself on being an individual, so obviously you will go out of your way to portray this facade, thus supporting an obsolete Irish team.

Xavi6

The World Cup is clearly the pinnacle of football. It's the only pretty much the whole lot of us on this board would agree with each other. This extends to the barstoolers/armchairers as well. The whole country becomes united against every other country. How can it get better than that?

(And yes I'm prepared for the inevitable "You're team hasn't even been in the Champions League so how would you know?" comments)

cson

You get a better standard of team in the Champions League.

_blank_

estebancambias wrote: »

Seriously? Damn.

Ya srsly.

estebancambias wrote: »

In relation to your 'hahah' comment about the Shels friendly, putting that aside I can sort of understand your stance on supporting Shelbourne more than the National team.

Do you?

I don't feel the Irish National Team represents me. Too many Clint-on mercenary types. I don't relate to them.

estebancambias wrote: »

You pride yourself on being an individual, so obviously you will go out of your way to portray this facade, thus supporting an obsolete Irish team.

Oooh, thanks for the free amateur psych report.

Nice one.

Facade? It's not a facade. Anyone who knows me will tell you that.

Xavi6

Everyone knows Des only became a Shels fan during the glory days of 2006. He expected Shels to dominate Irish football for years to come in a Man Utd kind of way. He wanted to be one of the cool kids (God knows there's plenty running around Tolka). Unfortunately it's all gone tits up but as much as he would love to now jump on the Drogheda bandwagon, his reputation on this board has to be upheld.

estebancambias

My last line was a joke, but I do believe there is an element of truth to it, obvious though, right? As you said yourself, you don't feel the national team represents you, on the contrary Shelbourne do.

OPENROAD

Xavi6 wrote: »

The whole country becomes united against every other country. How can it get better than that?

(And yes I'm prepared for the inevitable "You're team hasn't even been in the Champions League so how would you know?" comments)

Personally CL or not, it makes no difference for me, what you describe with the country being united is how I feel about my club week in week out, which is why I'm a st holder. I'm very passionite about my club for a number of reasons,the players, the fans,the city.

Can't see why people are getting upset.

Xavi6

OPENROAD wrote: »

Personally CL or not, it makes no difference for me, what you describe with the country being united is how I feel about my club week in week out, which is why I'm a st holder. I'm very passionite about my club for a number of reasons,the players, the fans,the city.

Can't see why people are getting upset.

I'm certainly not upset. I would just put national pride before multinational pride in terms of which is bigger.

Racing Flat

Because one is annual and one is every 4 years, we're not comparing like with like. While the WC is great, if it was on every year, watching Iran against Paraguay might get a bit tedious.

What makes the WC such a great experience is that we are all supporting the same team. So we celebrate together, we comisserate together. If Liverpool beat Inter Milan half of us are delighted, half are peeved...If Liverpool were playing Man U in the CL final I don't think I could go out to watch it because it would be too much to bear if Man U won. Too much tension, fear of failure. That's not as bad when we're all on the same side.

Remember 1990 after the matches everyone out on the streets celebrating together, because we're all in it together you feel part of it, part of one team. Like Con Houlihan said - 'I missed Italia 90 as I was in Italy'.

OPENROAD

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm certainly not upset. I would just put national pride before multinational pride in terms of which is bigger.

which is fair enough and I respect that, but not for me.

estebancambias

No, OpenRoad I respect your love for your club, but.....

....the players? Do you think hand on heart, Cesc really cares about Arsenal?

Do you think if Willie was offered an extra 10k by AC Milan, he would stay with the Gunners out of pure love for the club?

The fans? What do your share in common with them, that you can't with Irish fans?

The City? Rome or Dublin would be a tough choice for me, I like both the cities, but even if I favoured Rome it wouldn't mean I care more about Roma winning the Champions League.

Once again I'm just interested.

OPENROAD

estebancambias wrote: »

No, OpenRoad I respect your love for your club, but.....

....the players? Do you think hand on heart, Cesc really cares about Arsenal?

Do you think if Willie was offered an extra 10k by AC Milan, he would stay with the Gunners out of pure love for the club?

The fans? What do your share in common with them, that you can't with Irish fans?

The City? Rome or Dublin would be a tough choice for me, I like both the cities, but even if I favoured Rome it wouldn't mean I care more about Roma winning the Champions League.

Have to say a very fair point regarding the players, of course Cesc will move on one day just like everyone eventually does. But some International players feel the same, if they really cared why take early retirement and play on for years with their clubs.

Xavi6

OPENROAD wrote: »

Have to say a very fair point regarding the players, of course Cesc will move on one day just like everyone eventually does. But some International players feel the same, if they really cared why take early retirement and play on for years with their clubs.

Money. That's the way the game has gone.

I support the national team as a whole, no matter who pulls on the green (or green and gold if it's Australia) jersey. I do the same for my club. It is a very fine line between the two though I will admit.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

The CL has better teams, better matches, better eeverything.
What it doesn't have is that it's spread out over the year, not over a 4 week period. If the CL was at the end of every season, it'd be an amazing event.

Very good point. The world cup is great because its a festival of football. There is constantly matches on and everyone is excited about it. If the Champions League was spread over 6 weeks it would be just as entertaining.

Still, there is a certain magic in the World Cup that cant be replicated.

estebancambias

OPENROAD wrote: »

Have to say a very fair point regarding the players, of course Cesc will move on one day just like everyone eventually does. But some International players feel the same, if they really cared why take early retirement and play on for years with their clubs.

Yeah you're right. As you said before we can agree to disagree.;)

OPENROAD

estebancambias wrote: »

Yeah you're right. As you said before we can agree to disagree.;)

Sounds good to me :)

estebancambias

I didn't know how to respond about your point about the players retiring early so I took the easy option. As you said playing for your country is not the be all and end all, especially not any more.

Sqaull20

Champions league is getting kinda boring imo, it doesnt give me the same buzz as the World Cup, especially when we are in it...

As much a I liked Arsenal beating Villareal a few years ago to get to the final, it couldnt compare to ous beating Italy/taking Spain the whole way.

I can only imagine what it would have been like if we had met Zizou's France, Ronnie's Brazil, Beckhams England...

The champions league doesnt have that and its getting boring...

Melion

The reason i would choose Liverpool is simple, i love watching Liverpool. All this bollox about emotional connection to Ireland really annoys me. I cant stand watching Ireland anymore, i went to every home game for 9-10 years but nowadays i cant even watch them on TV. Why would i care if we win the World Cup? It would be an excuse for the GAA and Rugby fans to throw on a 1990 or 94 world cup shirt and get píssed in the streets confessing their love for the team and how they have always loved football.

At least if im watching a Liverpool game, i know the people im watching it feel the same as me about the team. They have been through the highs (2005 CL) and the lows (1990-??? in the league) just like i have. They've had to put up with the same grief ive got from United supporting mates for years on end. They arent just there to get drunk, sing a few songs, take a few days off work and then go on about their lives as if nothing happened. They are real fans.

People are saying it would be great for everyone if we won the world cup because everyone would be there to celebrate, you think its a good thing. Id absolutely hate it. Even in 2002 you could see it, all the people who'd never seen a game in their lives running around with their brand new Ireland shirts just off the hanger trying to talk football with people and just embarassing themselves.

Xavi6

Melion wrote: »

The reason i would choose Liverpool is simple, i love watching Liverpool. All this bollox about emotional connection to Ireland really annoys me. I cant stand watching Ireland anymore, i went to every home game for 9-10 years but nowadays i cant even watch them on TV. Why would i care if we win the World Cup? It would be an excuse for the GAA and Rugby fans to throw on a 1990 or 94 world cup shirt and get píssed in the streets confessing their love for the team and how they have always loved football.

At least if im watching a Liverpool game, i know the people im watching it feel the same as me about the team. They have been through the highs (2005 CL) and the lows (1990-??? in the league) just like i have. They've had to put up with the same grief ive got from United supporting mates for years on end. They arent just there to get drunk, sing a few songs, take a few days off work and then go on about their lives as if nothing happened. They are real fans.

People are saying it would be great for everyone if we won the world cup because everyone would be there to celebrate, you think its a good thing. Id absolutely hate it. Even in 2002 you could see it, all the people who'd never seen a game in their lives running around with their brand new Ireland shirts just off the hanger trying to talk football with people and just embarassing themselves.

And the bandwagon jumping doesn't happen with club teams......say United in the 90s and now Chelsea?

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

And the bandwagon jumping doesn't happen with club teams......say United in the 90s and now Chelsea?

Its bad enough when its a few people wearing different tracksuits, imagine a full country of it. It would drive me mad.

You could even see it a few years ago in the rugby when Ireland were doing well and down here when Munster started performing in europe. I wont comment too much because its not my place, but a friend of mine from Limerick has been going to see Munster for years and he is the same as me, hates the bandwagon jumpers.

Xavi6

Melion wrote: »

Its bad enough when its a few people wearing different tracksuits, imagine a full country of it. It would drive me mad.

In the 90s it was a full country wearing United tracksuits and it did drive me mad but you get over it.

Melion wrote: »

You could even see it a few years ago in the rugby when Ireland were doing well and down here when Munster started performing in europe. I wont comment too much because its not my place, but a friend of mine from Limerick has been going to see Munster for years and he is the same as me, hates the bandwagon jumpers.

To be fair though, how are people naturally attracted to something? Success, whether on a large or small scale. We can't all come from a background where our Dad had us in a certain team's jersey before we were even out of the womb.

Tusky

Melion wrote: »

People are saying it would be great for everyone if we won the world cup because everyone would be there to celebrate, you think its a good thing. Id absolutely hate it. Even in 2002 you could see it, all the people who'd never seen a game in their lives running around with their brand new Ireland shirts just off the hanger trying to talk football with people and just embarassing themselves.

I dont understand this attitude. I have always watched and played a lot of football and its one of my biggest hobbies. I dont consider it to be an elitest sport though. So what if people that dont normally watch football get excited when Ireland do well. Why does that bother you ? There are always going to be different levels of supporters. Some go to every game, some go to an odd game, some watch every match, some watch the odd match & some only really take an interest when their country does well. The excitement is infectious and I dont see a problem with it. In fact, I like it.

It kind of reminds me of the scenario when a band becomes really popular. You always get a bunch of annoying music snobs saying 'I liked them before they were big...I was there from the beginning man'. Twats.

Melion

Tusky wrote: »

I dont understand this attitude. I have always watched and played a lot of football and its one of my biggest hobbies. I dont consider it to be an elitest sport though. So what if people that dont normally watch football get excited when Ireland do well. Why does that bother you ? There are always going to be different levels of supporters. Some go to every game, some go to an odd game, some watch every match, some watch the odd match & some only really take an interest when their country does well. The excitement is infectious.

It really doesnt bother me. In fact, I like it.

Thats the bit that bothers me. Its just my opinion on this, i know people wont like it.

Tusky

Melion wrote: »

Thats the bit that bothers me. Its just my opinion on this, i know people wont like it.

Its an opinion that is shared by many, you are not alone. Some people just dont find football interesting enough to follow a team or watch it week in week out but get caught up in the excitement of the world cup. More dedicated football fans shouldn't look down on them.

I'm the same with Rubgy. I watch all the big competitions but dont know much about it.

Nunu

Melion wrote: »

The reason i would choose Liverpool is simple, i love watching Liverpool. All this bollox about emotional connection to Ireland really annoys me. I cant stand watching Ireland anymore, i went to every home game for 9-10 years but nowadays i cant even watch them on TV. Why would i care if we win the World Cup? It would be an excuse for the GAA and Rugby fans to throw on a 1990 or 94 world cup shirt and get píssed in the streets confessing their love for the team and how they have always loved football.

At least if im watching a Liverpool game, i know the people im watching it feel the same as me about the team. They have been through the highs (2005 CL) and the lows (1990-??? in the league) just like i have. They've had to put up with the same grief ive got from United supporting mates for years on end. They arent just there to get drunk, sing a few songs, take a few days off work and then go on about their lives as if nothing happened. They are real fans.

People are saying it would be great for everyone if we won the world cup because everyone would be there to celebrate, you think its a good thing. Id absolutely hate it. Even in 2002 you could see it, all the people who'd never seen a game in their lives running around with their brand new Ireland shirts just off the hanger trying to talk football with people and just embarassing themselves.

Melion, it seems to me you are just supressing any joy to be had with following a successful Irish team just because you don't like the band wagoning that goes with it?
Seriously, why get worked up about it?

I'm actually finding it hard to believe all the posters who say they don't care if Ireland say won the World Cup. Originally I was going to say I don't believe you, but I've read all your arguments and it seems you honestly feel this way. I can't get my head around it - if you love football and you're Irish how could you not possibly get a buzz out of your country doing well?

It's ridiculous reasoning it all out and being bitter about - 'the players don't care anymore, the fans are muppets' etc etc....just enjoy it for yourself.

I'm a massive Utd fan, but I distinguish between that and Ireland. Following your country is wholly different and seperate. You shouldn't have to make a chioce....I actually always thought it was conditional with everyone, but I'm obviously wrong.

kryogen

the arguement made about it is that the standard of play is better in the champions league and all the talent from around the globe is mixed together and because its on every year it gets more exposure, more discussion and is generally thought of as the pinnacle of the sport of football, the way the world cup once was

the world cup is a totally different animal imo, it doesnt have the same quality of football i think, but it has a greater level of excitement to it that we irish fans dont get to experience very much, i remember how it felt in 94, i remember even better my excitement in 2002 even though it was tainted a little by "the incident"

it brings whole countries together, national pride rises and i dont think the champions league will ever replace the feeling of your country being in the world cup

apologies if its a bit rambly, tiredness is setting in