Champions League bigger than the World Cup...

Xavi6

kryogen wrote: »

the world cup is a totally different animal imo, it doesnt have the same quality of football i think, but it has a greater level of excitement to it that we irish fans dont get to experience very much, i remember how it felt in 94, i remember even better my excitement in 2002 even though it was tainted a little by "the incident"

I agree. I mean how did the hell did Kilbane slice that wide?

kryogen

Xavi6 wrote: »

I agree. I mean how did the hell did Kilbane slice that wide?

lol yeah shocking wasnt it!!:D:D

Nalz

Nunu wrote: »

Melion, it seems to me you are just supressing any joy to be had with following a successful Irish team just because you don't like the band wagoning that goes with it?
Seriously, why get worked up about it?

I'm actually finding it hard to believe all the posters who say they don't care if Ireland say won the World Cup. Originally I was going to say I don't believe you, but I've read all your arguments and it seems you honestly feel this way. I can't get my head around it - if you love football and you're Irish how could you not possibly get a buzz out of your country doing well?

It's ridiculous reasoning it all out and being bitter about - 'the players don't care anymore, the fans are muppets' etc etc....just enjoy it for yourself.

I'm a massive Utd fan, but I distinguish between that and Ireland. Following your country is wholly different and seperate. You shouldn't have to make a chioce....I actually always thought it was conditional with everyone, but I'm obviously wrong.

Well said. Even from a non sporting perspective, the country would benefit from it vastly. If you love the sport so much, and the people out on that pitch are respesenting your country souly, shouldn't you be delighted that they won regardless of wheather or not there was bandwagon jumpers around?

Im one of the biggest Man United fans around, and God forbid if Liverpool win the CL again (cas I won't be able to turn on my phone even though I dont dislike Liverpool) but I 100 times rather if Ireland won the World Cup. Everyone united in joy in this country for starters...Cotton jumbers, wooly jumpers and bandwagon jumpers alike.

Melion

Jesus, people not allowed to have preferences on here anymore?

I would take Liverpool winning the CL every single time over Ireland winning the World Cup, and as for the Premiership......

SantryRed

Teams can do bad in the league and still qualify for the Champions League. e.g. Liverpool
Teams can do bad in qualifying for the World Cup and they most likely will not qualify.

And with the World Cup being on every four years, it makes it better than the Champions League.

Tusky

SantryRed wrote: »

Teams can do bad in the league and still qualify for the Champions League. e.g. Liverpool
Teams can do bad in qualifying for the World Cup and they most likely will not qualify.

And with the World Cup being on every four years, it makes it better than the Champions League.

3rd in the premier league isnt exactly bad to be fair. They are competing with top class opposition (Chelsea, United, Arsenal).

shane86

Melion wrote: »

Jesus, people not allowed to have preferences on here anymore?

I would take Liverpool winning the CL every single time over Ireland winning the World Cup, and as for the Premiership......

You are allowed to have a preference, but dont be baffled if people cant get over why you would rather see a foreign team of players from all over Europe and beyond lift a domestic title in another country. If an Irishman told you they are a diehard fan of a team in the Lituhanian second division and their happiest ever moment in their life was when they saw them reach the finals of the division 2 league, would you think it was odd?

An Ireland match simply has more in common with everyone here. They sing our anthem. They play in our colour. The stadium is full of tricolours. Does watching 11 men stand still while the formaility of getting the champions league anthem out of the way really get you as excited? Yes, there are bandwagon jumpers, but who cares really. Nearly every football fan under a certain age is a bandwagoner. Really: a 7 year old boy may say Man U is his fave team and its all he cares about, but how many 7 year olds will sit for 90 minutes to watch them play Derby? In fact a majority of fans of prem teams from my experience only bother watching

Clashes between the big 4
Local/regional Derbys.
Grudge matches (Man U v Arsenal back in the Keane days)
Latter stages of the CL


Rugby seems to be the biggest bandwagoner sport in recent years. Is it just me or even 8 years ago did barely anyone watch it? Ever since they started playing it in croker the whole country has an opinion on it (just doesnt excite me personally tbh, Ive tried but it just cant beat the thrill of an Ireland win in a qualifier)

PHB

Personally I think I'd prefer Ireland to win the World Cup more than United to win the CL, however I'd prefer United to win the Treble more than I'd prefer Ireland to win the World Cup.

The CL isn't anywhere near as special as a world cup, but the treble is just as, if not more, special than the world cup.

I'll always feel more attached to MUFC than I will to the Irish National Football team.

OPENROAD

shane86 wrote: »

An Ireland match simply has more in common with everyone here. They sing our anthem. They play in our colour. The stadium is full of tricolours.

Don't get excited by any of that to be honest.

PHB

They sing our anthem. They play in our colour. The stadium is full of tricolours.

Last match I was at. There was not one person in the twenty people around me who knew the words.
They play in our colour, so do other teams.
The stadium is not full of tricolours at all, infact its full people who get annoyed at any sort of real singing, and who's biggest thrill in these games came from the kids starting the mexican wave in the corner.

Bungalow Bill

You guys might think you are real Liverpool fans, but to an actual Liverpool fan,from Liverpool, you are an annoying tourist, and they don't see you as a real fan.

Supporting an English club team is no doubt easier, more convenient etc. And of course, everyone in Ireland supports the most successful teams, what a coincidence! You don't see too many Birmingham or Blackburn shirts around do you?

I think basically, as soon as Ireland start doing well again, it will remind you all why you supported Ireland in the first place, its instinctive to be patriotic.

Rockee

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

I think basically, as soon as Ireland start doing well again, it will remind you all why you supported Ireland in the first place, its instinctive to be patriotic.

DES F? Mellion?

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

Last match I was at. There was not one person in the twenty people around me who knew the words.
They play in our colour, so do other teams.
The stadium is not full of tricolours at all, infact its full people who get annoyed at any sort of real singing, and who's biggest thrill in these games came from the kids starting the mexican wave in the corner.

...and **** who tell you to sit down and shut up.

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

You guys might think you are real Liverpool fans, but to an actual Liverpool fan,from Liverpool, you are an annoying tourist, and they don't see you as a real fan.

Truth.

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

I think basically, as soon as Ireland start doing well again, it will remind you all why you supported Ireland in the first place, its instinctive to be patriotic.

er....lol.

I have zero love for the Ireland team. For many, many reasons.

I don't give a crap if they qualify for tournaments or not.

Actually, I tell a lie. I like to laugh at the **** mentioned previously, when Ireland lose. I like to laugh when I hear them on Joe Duffy, or Gerry Ryan or Adrian kennedy or whoever the hell it is repeating the opinions they read in that morning's Star or Sun or Herald AM

Rockee wrote: »

DES F? Mellion?

What?

Melion

Melion wrote: »

The reason i would choose Liverpool is simple, i love watching Liverpool. All this bollox about emotional connection to Ireland really annoys me. I cant stand watching Ireland anymore, i went to every home game for 9-10 years but nowadays i cant even watch them on TV. Why would i care if we win the World Cup? It would be an excuse for the GAA and Rugby fans to throw on a 1990 or 94 world cup shirt and get píssed in the streets confessing their love for the team and how they have always loved football.

At least if im watching a Liverpool game, i know the people im watching it feel the same as me about the team. They have been through the highs (2005 CL) and the lows (1990-??? in the league) just like i have. They've had to put up with the same grief ive got from United supporting mates for years on end. They arent just there to get drunk, sing a few songs, take a few days off work and then go on about their lives as if nothing happened. They are real fans.

People are saying it would be great for everyone if we won the world cup because everyone would be there to celebrate, you think its a good thing. Id absolutely hate it. Even in 2002 you could see it, all the people who'd never seen a game in their lives running around with their brand new Ireland shirts just off the hanger trying to talk football with people and just embarassing themselves.

Whilst i respect your opinion I have to say that I disagree. In 1999 out of nowhere came a whole horde of people in their United jerseys jumping on the treble bandwagon. Again in 2005, people i didnt even kno liked football with their Liverpool jerseys on. In 2006 suddenly my college looked like an Arseanl supporters club for a few days leading up to the final. I dont think Id seen more than 1 or 2 Chelsea jerseys a year until Roman came in. Bandwagon jumping is everywhere. To say the people you're watching it with feel the same is laughable. I have seen ignorant fans of all clubs watching games, and as a FOOTBALL fan I listen to some of the sh*t they come out with and wonder what they think theyre watching. This goes for all clubs in England, Celtic, Italian/Spanish teams etc etc.


I went to a rugby school so always followed the rugby back in the days when we couldnt score in a brothel. In the mid 90's the Irish rugby team was THAT bad. Does it annoy em now that there are Irish (and Munster the worst of the bandwagon teams) rugby fans everywhere and theyre filling Croker? Hell no. Ill be at the match tomorrow and I cant wait. Does it annoy me that even only 5-7 years ago I used to go to Leinster matches with my dad in Donnybrook and there'd be maybe 3000 people there, now they get an average of 16000 per game into the RDS? Hell no it doesnt. And Leinster arent even performing in Europe this year. Being elitist is stupid.


To me the CL will never be as big as the WC because the world cup still holds a certain pristige and aura that cant be replaced. The passion which the smaller teams, like the African teams etc play with is something u dont find drom a WHOLE TEAM in the CL. It still is the highest honour in football and most players would say as much. The CL iand Euro's arent far behind tho for me.

PHB

PHB wrote: »

Last match I was at. There was not one person in the twenty people around me who knew the words.
They play in our colour, so do other teams.
The stadium is not full of tricolours at all, infact its full people who get annoyed at any sort of real singing, and who's biggest thrill in these games came from the kids starting the mexican wave in the corner.

+1. I was at the Germany game and it was the worst atmosphere of any match Ive ever been at. There was an old man beside me who'd give out when anything resembling a song started, and complain for 5 mins straight if everyone stood up during an exciting goalmouth incident.


However Ive experienced fools like this in Old Trafford, the Amsterdam ArenA and Ive read Liverpool fans on here complaining about the same kind of thing.

Mr. Presentable

Deleted User wrote: »

+1. I was at the Germany game and it was the worst atmosphere of any match Ive ever been at. There was an old man ebside me who'd give out when anythign resembling a song started, and complain for 5 mins straight if everyone stood up during an exciting goalmouth incident.


However Ive experienced fools like this in Old Trafford, the Amsterdam ArenA and Ive read Liverpool fans on here complaining about the same kind of thing.

People like to be associated with winners. As was observed, you'd hardly see a Chelsea shirt before Abramovic. So people ally themselves with winners. Look in the American Football forum and you'll find wall to wall Pats fans - there were only three in the entire country pre 1999 Same is true for most "fans". Yes, the Liverpool, Man Utd, Barcelona fans too. Or especially. There are genuine people with family or other reasons to support clubs, but mostly, at some point a choice was made, and the choice was to support whoever was winning at the time.

The original point was CL vs WC. WC has more "heart", the joy of seeing Ghana run riot over superior opposition. The CL, like the domestic leagues, is mostly dictated by how much money the competitor has. Don't do too well this year? No problem, buy Anderson, Nani, Tevez and try again. Ghana will still only be able to field Ghanaians next time out.

_blank_

nipplenuts wrote: »

Ghana will still only be able to field Ghanaians next time out.

Yeah, and Clint-on grew up in Borris-on-Ossory.

Mr. Presentable

DesF wrote: »

Yeah, and Clint-on grew up in Borris-on-Ossory.

Thanks Des, but you know what I mean.

_blank_

nipplenuts wrote: »

Thanks Des, but you know what I mean.

Nope, I'm afraid I don't.

estebancambias

Des, I think its obvious.

(International Team) can't just go out and buy players if they are doing bad.

As has been said before any country with high emmigration will have players like Clinton Morrison playing for them.

Melion

Can someone explain to me why everyone is making such a big point that its a good thing that the WC is on every 4 years. What has that got to do with anything? To be honest, i prefer watching the european championship, always better football, more exciting games.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why everyone is making such a big point that its a good thing that the WC is on every 4 years. What has that got to do with anything? To be honest, i prefer watching the european championship, always better football, more exciting games.

Cavier everyday - not so nice. Etc.



Its more of a novelty and as such winning it is more precious cos a footballer will only get 3-4 shots at it is his career. A lot of players have CL medals, a WC medal is more rare.

shane86

DesF wrote: »

I don't feel the Irish National Team represents me. Too many Clint-on mercenary types. I don't relate to them.

Too many?

On a given night of 14 men playing it will include two or at most three English born players (Kilbane, Carsley, Reid if he is fit, and on the odd occasion one more). Considering there are nearly as many people in England with at least one Irish parent or grandparent as there are people actually living here, it isnt a huge stat.

Anyway, what makes Morrison less eligible for Ireland than Aldo, Houghton or an innumerable amount of other 90s players?

Should all Shels players have been born and raised within five miles of their ground? A quick wiki look reveals at least two players with foreign names, and Im sure some of their Irish players are from far and wide.

_blank_

shane86 wrote: »

Anyway, what makes Morrison less eligible for Ireland than Aldo, Houghton or an innumerable amount of other 90s players?

Nothing at all.



What's your point here?

shane86 wrote: »

Should all Shels players have been born and raised within five miles of their ground? A quick wiki look reveals at least two players with foreign names, and Im sure some of their Irish players are from far and wide.

Did you actually look at Wiki, or are you making that up?

Because there are no "foreign" names in the Shels squad for this season. Hell, only Sparky Rutherford isn't Irish.

If you are looking at the U20 squad, Kyle Delavari and Ilmir Habibovic, I can assure you, are as Dublin as they come.

Ah, but this is all irrelevant anyway. Club football is different to international football.

Someone stated that International Football is "better" because teams will always be "full of" Ghanians, Irish whatever.

It is accepted in Club football that players will come from far and wide. As long as the player gives 100% for the Shels Shirt I wouldn't care if he came from the moon.

But what galls me is that people like Clinton are allowed to pick and choose which international team to play for, in an attempt to increase their value, or make a name for themselves.

I'm sure he grew up in Laaaandaaaan Town dreaming of pulling on the Green Jersey and running out in Landsdowne, init. Or maybe his agent told him about it.

shane86

DesF wrote: »

But what galls me is that people like Clinton are allowed to pick and choose which international team to play for, in an attempt to increase their value, or make a name for themselves.

I'm sure he grew up in Laaaandaaaan Town dreaming of pulling on the Green Jersey and running out in Landsdowne, init. Or maybe his agent told him about it.

So would it make it more valid if it turned out he used to go over to his grannys house every day years back to watch every single qualifier with her brothers?

We have to resort to this type of thing because our playing pool was depleted. If Ireland got to the stage of giving passports to foreign LOI players just to get them on the team, like the Croats and several mid east countries have done with Brazillians, yes, I would see it as a problem. Ireland uses English born players of Irish descent. As do most former French colonies in Africa having French born players on their teams. France uses foreign born players who grew up in France. Poland, Croatia and half the mid east hold "play for an international team" competitions. Thats life.

Mr. Presentable

DesF wrote: »

But what galls me is that people like Clinton are allowed to pick and choose which international team to play for,

I take your point re degree of Irishness, but do you really think your mate Clinton was in a position to pick and choose? Who else would have him?

Anyhow, my point was and is, that Ireland (or Ghana) cannot go out and buy three Argentines to improve the squad if they perform poorly in the next WC, where Internazionale can. But you knew that, despite your obtuseness.

_blank_

nipplenuts wrote: »

I take your point re degree of Irishness, but do you really think your mate Clinton was in a position to pick and choose? Who else would have him?

He would have declared for Jamaica if Ireland hadn't have been in the WC and they were. I've no doubt about that tbh.

nipplenuts wrote: »

Anyhow, my point was and is, that Ireland (or Ghana) cannot go out and buy three Argentines to improve the squad if they perform poorly in the next WC, where Internazionale can. But you knew that, despite your obtuseness.

ORLY?

Eduardo, the Arsenal Striker.

Born in Brazil. Plays for Croatia.

I have zero proof of this, but I have a slight hunch that he isn't playing for Croatia out of pure unadulterated love of the country of his residence.

That is just one example.

denashpot

The Champions League is bigger now. the only thing good in the world cup is watching brazil. the world cup has declined the last 10 years i think. less goals and terrible teams.

Xavi6

denashpot wrote: »

The Champions League is bigger now. the only thing good in the world cup is watching brazil. the world cup has declined the last 10 years i think. less goals and terrible teams.

There was nothing good about watching them in the last World Cup.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

There was nothing good about watching them in the last World Cup.

Liar!

The Brazilian women in the stands. That was good.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

Liar!

The Brazilian women in the stands. That was good.

I was too busy salivating over Zidane tbh.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

I was too busy salivating over Zidane tbh.

tbh

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

tbh

I did mean his skills. Xavi on the otherhand....I don't think they'd know what hit them if I was to post there.

Mr. Presentable

DesF wrote: »

He would have declared for Jamaica if Ireland hadn't have been in the WC and they were. I've no doubt about that tbh.


ORLY?

Eduardo, the Arsenal Striker.

Born in Brazil. Plays for Croatia.

I have zero proof of this, but I have a slight hunch that he isn't playing for Croatia out of pure unadulterated love of the country of his residence.

That is just one example.

How does this "one example" dilute my opinion? If he wasn't selected for Croatia could he have played for another country? In fact, could he have been signed to bolster the weak Irish attack, for example? No, he couldn't.

"ORLY?" Apart from being an airport, is there another meaning for this?

_blank_

nipplenuts wrote: »

How does this "one example" dilute my opinion? If he wasn't selected for Croatia could he have played for another country? In fact, could he have been signed to bolster the weak Irish attack, for example? No, he couldn't.

If the FAI paid him enough to come and live here, then yes, they could.

nipplenuts wrote: »

"ORLY?" Apart from being an airport, is there another meaning for this?

O RLY

Mr. Presentable

DesF wrote: »

If the FAI paid him enough to come and live here, then yes, they could.


O RLY

Ah, ffs, even if you'd spelt it correctly I wouldn't have known. Man, I'm getting old. And left behind

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

Id much rather Liverpool win the champions league than Ireland win the WC

:mad:

Nope. I'm not reading the rest of this thread. Comments like the above will only serve to stick me on monkey life - tilt for the rest of the weekend. And I want to enjoy my weekend.

Bungalow Bill

For me there is so much more sportmanship in International football.
There are no monetary advantages to be had really in terms of players. Its a great leveller. The fact is that I don't view Man Utd winning the CL this year as a huge acheivement. They've gone out and bought some of the best young players in the world, and Lyon have had to sell theirs. Thats hardly a great achievement if Utd beat them. There are realistically only about 5 teams that can compete with that kind of money.

In international football, there is always a Greece that can win a tournament by implementing the basics of the game.
I honestly find it hard to believe that your hearts didn't skip a beat when Robbie Keane scored against Germany, or Hierro have away a penalty against Niall Quinn.

Irish people not supporting the national team stinks of the new rich generation to me. The sky sports 24/7, old trafford once a year types. 'Bragging' to your mate from swords that your Chelsea beat his Liverpool over a pannini and a Latté. Its a joke, and real Liverpudlians would agree with me. Where's your identity?
I understand that people may have lost faith under the last few regimes, but to not support Trappatoni and good honest Irish guys like Richie Dunne and Damien Duff is criminal to me.

LuckyLloyd

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

Irish people not supporting the national team stinks of the new rich generation to me. The sky sports 24/7, old trafford once a year types. 'Bragging' to your mate from swords that your Chelsea beat his Liverpool over a pannini and a Latté. Its a joke, and real Liverpudlians would agree with me. Where's your identity?

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pazh__1Kuus&feature=related

The pride displayed by the older gentleman at 3.35.

**** you if you think club football means more than that.

_blank_

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

Irish people not supporting the national team stinks of the new rich generation to me. The sky sports 24/7, old trafford once a year types. 'Bragging' to your mate from swords that your Chelsea beat his Liverpool over a pannini and a Latté. Its a joke, and real Liverpudlians would agree with me. Where's your identity?

lol :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Look mate, say what you want, but I most certainly don't fit into that particular niche. I don't eat paninis, Coffee of any description disgusts me. And oh yeah, I'm not a fanboi of a Premier League Team.

I support Shelbourne. The Irish National Team has nothing to do with me. I have no affinity with it's players, it and it's "fans" don't care about the NATIONAL league.

So, I don't care about them. Win Win situation for me. One in which I am entirely happy.

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

Irish people not supporting the national team stinks

Irish people not supporting the national league stinks.

Who do you support.

Where is your identity?

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pazh__1Kuus&feature=related

The pride displayed by the older gentleman at 3.35.

**** you if you think club football means more than that.

Meh.

It's not in youtube, but the last time Shels won the league, that was pretty much me.

I knew we were fúcked.

I knew it was all about to come crumbling down.

I was so proud of them players, they did it for the shirt that year, because they sure as fúck weren't pulling a wage every week.

The on the first day of the new season, having been put down to the First Division, we played Kildare County, 1-2 down and we scored to make it 2-2. That was a very special night.

So sir. Screw YOU if you think going to four or five home games a year, maybe the odd away trip, means more than following my team around the country week-in week-out.

OPENROAD

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

I think basically, as soon as Ireland start doing well again, it will remind you all why you supported Ireland in the first place, its instinctive to be patriotic.

Never have supported them.

leninbenjamin

ffs... thunderdrome lads.

PHB

I think this thread has run its course.