What's your take on this?

_blank_

snyper wrote: »

Anyone have a pic of a weightlifting lolcat?

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

So you really think that someone can't be nice just for the sake of it? That's incredible.

I had written a response to all your other points but... well you're not listening to any of it are you?

Of course a person can be nice just for the sake of it but what I said was based on my personal experience after meeting you. I felt like I had been used in the past (not specifically by you) and tbh I didn’t feel like being used again. I could have writen back to your pms and said that I didn’t want to talk to you but you’ll remember I was banned for doing just that before so I ignored them.

Your cynicism about me is amazing. This isn't t-nation or TeamTest or anywhere other than boards. Whether you're willing to believe this or not, I have done my utmost to treat you as fairly as all the other posters. I have infracted you in the past, and even mistakenly gave you an infraction which I had meant to only be a warning - within minutes I'd contacted an Admin and had it removed leaving no permanent mark on your ID. I could have gone back and re-instilled the warning but didn't.

For the record, I have one infraction and one warning. An infraction from you, for back seat modding. And warning from Nesf for reporting too many posts. (obviously in addition to the current one)

You have accused me of being over-zealous in my Modding when reporting other people's posts and yet now you say if your behaviour had warranted them I should have infracted more.

Yes, I do think some of the moderation on the fitness forum can be a bit pre-emptive. But given that you know I know and feel that way, would it not be reasonable for me to think that if there was a problem with my posting style it would be jumped on and I'd be warned/infracted as soon and as frequently as there is a problem?

kaimera

As for extending a ban, if I ban someone for x amount of time and I get a PM that gives me gip, then the ban is extended on the grounds that I don't need this poster in PI as they obviously learned nothing and will only carry on the same way once they get back in.

You'd let the poster know that the ban was extended right?

Dragan

Hmmmm.....a few points on things.

Yes, Hanley you were banned from Team Test. We had the same problems over there as we do over here now funnily enough. I had a few complaints from posters about you and i addressed them with you. You said you didn't really see it but would work on things. Cool. Then you insulted and upset my friend. I don't really hold with that so i banned you. You repeatedly disrespected a Mod and an Admin on a site. How did you expect not to be banned. You thought G'em was only talking to you for more help? Then you clearly didn't actually get to know her at all in the time you spent talking to her, or training with her, or asking her questions on diet or answering her questions on powerlifting.

If anything banning you from Team Test has made me treat you with kid gloves over here, specifically because i didn't want to give you the idea i was bullying you. What happens on Team Test is TT business. This is boards. Different countries, different Constitutions if you would.

Now then, with regard to your banning from here. Something happened on a thread, i dealt with it as I saw fit, then i posted telling EVERYONE else that if something similar happened to just report the post or PM a Mod. Not to respond.

It happened again and you responded as you did. You were banned. In several PM's between us you have once again failed to see that THIS is the reason you were banned.

When a Mod says something in a forum you act as they suggest. You don't go around because you feel a precedant was set and your in the mood. When a Mod says "don't do this, do x,y,z if you get called out" and you go ahead and do something anyway, what do you think should happen?

The reason your ban was extended was because once again in PM's you pretty much ignored my point about just trying to do what the Mod's say and proceeded to tell me the reasons why you felt i had banned you, that Ali should have been banned and so forth.

For what it's worth, in my view, what was said to Ali was MUCH worse that what was said to you.Ali was called a joke by a poster who was notorious for causing trouble and offering nothing who had also thrown back every chance i had offered him to behave himself. When you were questioned by someone who is widely regarded as just needing help and being confused you didn't do what i had asked. Instead you decided to do what i had specifically asked people NOT to do. You were banned.

I fail to see how this did not compute with you at the time as being a bad idea.

G'em banned you for three days. I decided to extend it because you just were not learning you lesson about listening to Mods as was evident from the PM's we had been sending each other.

Oh, and as for the whole saying hello issue? I said hello to you at the World's, your the one who just strolled on by. You have recived PM's a few days before comps wishing you the best of luck which you have ignored. When i try and interact with you in threads, make points off yours and ask you question outside of my Moderator role you ignore them also.

I have basically but up with you being far ruder to me than i would ever allow one poster to be to another for the simple reason of not actually wanting to ban you fully because you do offer some good info to the board.

As it is we had drafted in a new impartial Mod. Specifically because we do have a personal history and it can make stuff tough to deal with. So, we got in one new Mod because of the behaviour of one specific person.

Now that i think about it that really is bending over backwards to accomodate someone and not have them feel but upon, which is insane. But it's what we are doing.

Thats about all i have to say on the matter to be honest.

Hanley

RoundyMooney wrote: »

I personally feel that introducing the aside of what happened on teamtest is irrelevant to this discussion. We cannot pass judgement on what happens elsewhere, not least because we don't know the ins and outs of it all.

It may or may not be irrelevent but I wanted to include it anyway just to give th full picture. As stated before, the two other users that were banned at the same time as me had been banned and warned, both in threads and privately in the past. However these two users are now back posting, dispite the fact they’ve been warned/banned in the past like myself. The only real difference I can see is that I had a falling out with the mods before so naturally when I saw the other users back posting I jumped to the conclusion that this falling out had something to do with my extended ban.I thought it was a reasonable assumption to make so included it.

Do you at least see WHY I thought it could have a bearing on the situation?

For the record, you received two (now expired) infractions in relation to the Fitness forum, and there were a number of warnings as well, along the way.

The only record that I have of individual warnings specific of me are the ones I mentioned earlier. The infraction by G'em, and warning by Nesf. Ironically the one from Nesf wasn't about my posting style, but about reporting posts.

Also I've checked back on PM's and can only find 2 where my conduct has been called into question. These aren't recent PM's (oct/nov time) and I had taken heed of them and toned down my posts a bit. I thought I was going a good job and since I had no indication otherwise I figured what I was saying was more acceptable now.

In your case, I don't think that's an issue. I acknowledge that your enthusiasm and contributions to Fitness are manifest, but I wouldn't agree with the manner of their execution, some of the time. Your mangling of my username, and raking over of side issues that are best kept between you guys, for one thing.

Oops.... sorry!!

Hanley

.

Beruthiel wrote: »

I believe that was me.
I told g'em that a 3 day ban is hardly a ban and is not the normal length. One week being the normal.
If it's a second ban it should be a month and a third six months.
These are guidelines but if a poster is going to continue giving you gip then that's the course of action that should be taken.
When a poster is giving a Mod more headaches then they need, why keep them in the forum?
I see no reason why the should.

Do you mind me asking you if you said that in relation to all three bans that were handed out that day or just in relation to mine?? My reading from what G'em has said is that she was accused of bein too soft with MY ban as it was only three days. Both the other posters who were banned had previous bannings to their name too. One of them, Roper, contributes quite alot of good solid info and MA experience to the site also.

It would seem to me that you guys know each other in real life and as a result, you Hanley, have probably gotten away with far more than most as a result. Instead of appreciating this, it would seem that you have pushed it to the limit.
You have taken this ban very personally and as a result make it very difficult for the current Mods to moderate you.
I know that both Mods have bent over backwards to be fair to you, they have even let you away with stuff they shouldn't incase you get wound up about it.
imo a bad move on their part as it has gained them nothing but grief.
I personally believe as a result of that a third Mod who doesn't know any of ye should help over see this particular forum.

I sincerly doubt I have gotten away with more than most. But that's just my personal opinion, anybody could look at the same situation and agree or disagree.

I never asked for, or expected any special treated if that is what I've been afforded. I'd have been much happier receiving infractions along the way so at least I could know what is and is not allowable. I can't ask for fairer than that surely??

And I agree with your last point, looks like there's one there now! I'm glad there's a new impartial one. I was never too big a fan of having two best friends modding the same forum. I think it leaves the door open to ganging up on posters if the situation occurs and fosters the "mod vs fight the powah" attitude.

Hanley

smashey wrote: »

I'm the neutral mod in question here and I'll be in my own little corner. I don't have the "level of applied knowledge" that you have as my field is Planning and Construction.

What I will have, is a totally unbiased approach to modding based on the fitness charter and general site-wide rules. As I don't know any of the posters personally, I can be as detached as need be.

Hi!! Hopefully I'll have the pleasure of making your acquaintance at some stage in the forum. You seem to have a great reputation with the other posters here judging by some of the comments. I don't think having an "applied level of knowledge" on the subject is neccessary to be a good mod. Hell it's probably a bad thing since personal opinions could come into play if you don't agree with what a poster says abotu a fitness topic. I know it shouldn't, but the mods are human too.

I do think that having a new impartial mod will lend alot more validity to the whole discipline process in that forum tho. I actually believe it's a gerat step by the admins and should give anyone who might feel like I do in ANY forum more faith in the whole process.

faceman

Jaysus this is all a bit mad.

Hagar

We have an "attack the post not the poster" policy,
I think we need another one, "mod the post not the poster".

Kur4mA

Hagar wrote: »

We have an "attack the post not the poster" policy,
I think we need another one, "mod the post not the poster".

That makes no sense...

Hanley

Dragan wrote: »

You thought G'em was only talking to you for more help? Then you clearly didn't actually get to know her at all in the time you spent talking to her, or training with her, or asking her questions on diet or answering her questions on powerlifting.

You see that's the thing. The more time I spent with her, the more I felt like that. It may or may not have been a personality clash, or I might just be a bad judge of people. But I can't help how I feel about someone.

If anything banning you from Team Test has made me treat you with kid gloves over here, specifically because i didn't want to give you the idea i was bullying you. What happens on Team Test is TT business. This is boards. Different countries, different Constitutions if you would.

I never asked for that. I'd have been MUCH happier being infracted and warned along the way so I could attempt to correct my behaviour instead of letting a whole case of things build up against me and being used now in a situation like this.

Now then, with regard to your banning from here. Something happened on a thread, i dealt with it as I saw fit, then i posted telling EVERYONE else that if something similar happened to just report the post or PM a Mod. Not to respond.

It happened again and you responded as you did. You were banned. In several PM's between us you have once again failed to see that THIS is the reason you were banned.

The first thing you said in the thread was this; http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55069545&postcount=32

That would have been fair enough and I wouldnt' have responded if I had not reported Ali's post and been told that it was ok to defend yourself.

The only post that you made relevant to the situation AFTER Ali's post and my report was this;

"I made it pretty clear that i wouldn't have any call outs and bull**** on this thread or forum."

There was no subsequent warnings of bans to be handed out to anyone who acted in the same manner that you ok'd earlier on.

When a Mod says something in a forum you act as they suggest. You don't go around because you feel a precedant was set and your in the mood. When a Mod says "don't do this, do x,y,z if you get called out" and you go ahead and do something anyway, what do you think should happen?

I reported a call out and attack on a poster. They responded and attacked back. I was told it was ok by YOU. If that's not the clearest case of mixed signles ever then I don't know what it is.

I'm fully aware what a mod says should be followed, but it's human nature to push the limits so when something is allowed (and i know for a fact it was allowed since I was the one who reported it) is it unreasonable to expect that once someone is given the chance to defend themselves with no disciplinary action the others won't follow suit?

The reason your ban was extended was because once again in PM's you pretty much ignored my point about just trying to do what the Mod's say and proceeded to tell me the reasons why you felt i had banned you, that Ali should have been banned and so forth.

Incorrect. I never said Ali should be banned. My point was about fair and equitable treatment to all posters.

Oh, and as for the whole saying hello issue? I said hello to you at the World's, your the one who just strolled on by. You have recived PM's a few days before comps wishing you the best of luck which you have ignored. When i try and interact with you in threads, make points off yours and ask you question outside of my Moderator role you ignore them also.

Ok I'm sorry, but that is a flat out lie. I haven't recieved any PMs from you wishing me luck, nor did you say hello to me. The only who did was Conor.

It's not a requirement for a user to reply everytime someone says something to them in a thread. I have stopped posting in many threads, and not responded to people at times even tho they're still quoting me because I felt I have said all that I have to say on a topic. It's not because I'm ignoring them or trying to be rude.

smashey

Hanley wrote: »

You see that's the thing. The more time I spent with her, the more I felt like that. It may or may not have been a personality clash, or I might just be a bad judge of people. But I can't help how I feel about someone.

How you feel about someone you know and have spent time with shouldn't have any bearing on what is posted in a given forum. The forum caters to all and tries to foster a "family" spirit where all are welcome.

As for being banned rather than infracted, this is at the mod's discretion.

Hagar

kyub wrote: »

That makes no sense...

It means leave your personal view of the poster out of it and just judge each post on its own merits. I find it hard to do sometimes. Sometimes I fail, but it's still my goal.

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

Ok I'm sorry, but that is a flat out lie. I haven't recieved any PMs from you wishing me luck, nor did you say hello to me. The only who did was Conor.

Sorry, i didn't say that i had sent you goodluck PM's. Didn't mean it to come across that way. It was G'em who sent you the messages that you ignored.

I'm just putting out there that attempts have been made to bridge gaps which you ignored and you have explained why you did.

As for Falkirk, i definitely said hello to you the same way as i said hello to Malteaser. Why? Simple manners. You may or may not have heard it. It was as that crazy French guy was trying to pull something ridiculous after not training deads for 6 months! I like his style! You were just walking out the gap in the railing by the platform as i was walking in and i said "hello". You may or may not have heard it, my point is that i have been trying to bridge gaps despite it all.

Now then, as i said i am not getting into the same conversation as i got into via PM.

Something happened.

I then said no more of this type of thing.

There was more.

Your were banned.

Simple.

The reason i still have not lifted your ban is because you still have not even remotely acknowledged that i asked the Forum to do something IN PUBLIC and you went against that based off your own interpretation from a Private conversation about a different case.

You still don't see that though do you? The whole , a Mod asked people not to do something and you did something anyway thing?

For what it's worth, i still think you publically expressing how you feel about G'em in this thread is a bit low. I think if it was happening to someone who wasn't a Mod and wasn't in a Feedback thread that posts would be reported.

It would be like me posting in this thread how i really feel about you instead of just keeping it related to occurances on the board.

BossArky

As a regular reader and contributor to the fitness forum over the past year it is obvious that there is serious tension between the parties involved.

I'm not sure if dragging everything up on this thread will help either side. What happens in real life outside the boundaries of boards.ie will obviosuly effect your interactions with someone on here. However, this is not auditable by anyone here.

Everyone needs to swallow their pride, stand down, cool off and get back to the purpose of the fitness forum. Easier said that done.

You could probably do with more than one extra mod by the way. I'm not sure if having a non fitness guru (no offence Smashey) is the best choice. Let me propose rubadub as a potential extra neutral mod. He is always on the ball and level headed. Where are the other mods anyway (Jak, DaveIrl, WWM)?

Hanley

smashey wrote: »

How you feel about someone you know and have spent time with shouldn't have any bearing on what is posted in a given forum. The forum caters to all and tries to foster a "family" spirit where all are welcome.

As for being banned rather than infracted, this is at the mod's discretion.

I wholeheartedly agree. I only made reference to it since I was directly questioned on it and because I feel it explains why I did not reply to some of the PM's or posts.

It was my understanding that the infractions are slaps on the wrist for bad behaviour? And a way of monitoring things without getting the ban stick out? I know a mods actions are at their discretion, but my question is;

Is it fair** that instead of using a system that was put into place to monitor and correct minor out of line behaviour so that a poster can correct actions that are considered to be out of line, a mod can not do this and instead continue to give said poster rope so that when they finally do deserve a ban they also have a load of other incidences to be further held against them on the gallows to justify the extended ban?

**pre-emptive post: Hanley and all his subsidiary and associate corporations fully realise that "fair" is decided by the Boards.ie Gods and may or may nor reflect what the former party feels is "fair"!!

Dragan

BossArky wrote: »

You could probably do with more than one extra mod by the way. I'm not sure if having a non fitness guru (no offence Smashey) is the best choice. Let me propose rubadub as a potential extra neutral mod. He is always on the ball and level headed. Where are the other mods anyway (Jak, DaveIrl, WWM)?

Personally i don't want a Mod in who has oddles of knowledge about things ( the next time we need a Mod for that you can be Rub will at the top of the list ) i want a Mod who is good at Modding, impartial and people are happy with.

Me and G'em are happy, Hanley seems to be happy with the choice and has said he will be happier in the Forum from now on.

kaimera

smashey is the new neutral mod.

_blank_

waidaminnit.

Is Hanley unbanned now?

What is this thread for then?

Hanley

Dragan wrote: »

For what it's worth, i still think you publically expressing how you feel about G'em in this thread is a bit low. I think if it was happening to someone who wasn't a Mod and wasn't in a Feedback thread that posts would be reported.

It would be like me posting in this thread how i really feel about you instead of just keeping it related to occurances on the board.

This is a bit of a pandora's box. I could quite easily of replied to those PM's and said I didn't want anything to do with her and for her to leave me alone, but I'm aware I obviously upset her quite badly on Team Test when I did the same so I didn't want to revisit it unneccessarily. I only alluded to it now since it was inferred that I was rude by not responding and wanted to give a reason as to why it was the case. I stated earlier that I don't sugar coat things, and acknowledged that it is one of my failings, but it's just the way I am. I would never have mentioned any of this otherwise.

Hanley

DesF wrote: »

waidaminnit.

Is Hanley unbanned now?

What is this thread for then?

Not as far as I'm aware!!

I guess the cat pictures are going to have to wait a while longer!!!

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

This is a bit of a pandora's box. I could quite easily of replied to those PM's and said I didn't want anything to do with her and for her to leave me alone, but I'm aware I obviously upset her quite badly on Team Test when I did the same so I didn't want to revisit it unneccessarily. I only alluded to it now since it was inferred that I was rude by not responding and wanted to give a reason as to why it was the case. I stated earlier that I don't sugar coat things, and acknowledged that it is one of my failings, but it's just the way I am. I would never have mentioned any of this otherwise.

Cool. And i understand your points even if i don't agree with them and think your nuts for thinking G'em ever wants to do anything other than help others and develop as a person herself.

I'm happy to move forward if you can take my word as Mod when i declare things at face value and do as i ask when i need to lay down the law in threads ( lets be honest, we get passionate in Fitness because for a lot of us the gym is a big part of life and that passion carries over ) and i will be happy to have you back posting on the forum if you can just real in the passion a little bit at times.

Like i have said since day one, you offer great advice but sometimes you ruffle feathers.

Hanley

**I managed to bork things up again so this should have gone in with my previous reply http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55196528&postcount=51**

Dragan wrote: »

Sorry, i didn't say that i had sent you goodluck PM's. Didn't mean it to come across that way. It was G'em who sent you the messages that you ignored.

I'm just putting out there that attempts have been made to bridge gaps which you ignored and you have explained why you did.

As for Falkirk, i definitely said hello to you the same way as i said hello to Malteaser. Why? Simple manners. You may or may not have heard it. It was as that crazy French guy was trying to pull something ridiculous after not training deads for 6 months! I like his style! You were just walking out the gap in the railing by the platform as i was walking in and i said "hello". You may or may not have heard it, my point is that i have been trying to bridge gaps despite it all.

I acknowledge that you may have been, but I didn't hear it. If I had heard it I probably would have responded since I cant' help myself but say hi to someone who says hi back.

I'm not sure if this sounds petty... but when you ban someone from your own personal forum it's like saying "get the hell away from me, we don't want anything to do with you anymore". I don't hold grudges but when somebody does something like that you can't expect a person to all of a sudden put it behind them and become all pally again surely?

Now then, as i said i am not getting into the same conversation as i got into via PM.

Something happened.

I then said no more of this type of thing.

There was more.

Your were banned.

Simple.

Again, going round in circles. Everyone knows the situation and the impression I got at this stage so there's no point in flogging it further. You said what was to happen, I thought it meant something different. I responded along with others. We got banned.

6th

Ok I went through the same thing as Hanley so could someone tell him when he ban is due to be lifted?

Hanley, you know next time you get banned it will most likely be a perma-ban? I think thats enough for you to maybe try not to let your heart rule your head when posting. It does make posting less fun but restrained posting is better than no post, right?

Hanley

Dragan wrote: »

I'm happy to move forward if you can take my word as Mod when i declare things at face value and do as i ask when i need to lay down the law in threads ( lets be honest, we get passionate in Fitness because for a lot of us the gym is a big part of life and that passion carries over ) and i will be happy to have you back posting on the forum if you can just real in the passion a little bit at times.

Like i have said since day one, you offer great advice but sometimes you ruffle feathers.

I'm happy with that too. I've never had a problem listening to and following what other mods say in any forum that I post in. I've modded sites before and know the difficulties involved. I'll try to be more sensitive to other peoples feelings in posts that I make but can't promise that will ALWAYS be the case. All I request is that the kid gloves are taken off and I'm infracted along the way if I do step out of line.

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

I'm happy with that too. I've never had a problem listening to and following what other mods say in any forum that I post in. I've modded sites before and know the difficulties involved. I'll try to be more sensitive to other peoples feelings in posts that I make but can't promise that will ALWAYS be the case. All I request is that the kid gloves are taken off and I'm infracted along the way if I do step out of line.

Cool. But you also need to appreciate that not everything that hacks someone off will be brought to our attention , or to yours. It's the just the way it goes. Not everything can be pointed out and checked....and not everything needs to build up either. Sometimes bannings happen based solely off one event as well.

Ban should be off in about 15 mins as soon as my Interweb stops having heart attacks at me.

Might as well bust out any Lolcats people have been storing.

mkdon05

the way i see it is,

Op Offended Ali

Ali defended herself

Hanley reported Ali's post

Dragan Said its ok for her to defend herself

Hanley, takes this into consideration and decides to defend himself (albeit heavy handed)

Hanley is then banned for this.


Sounds like a bit of injustice to me.
Ann takes some chocolate and Daddy allows it,
Barry takes some chocolate and gets a slap from daddy (but its ok for daddy to do this because Barry has been bold in the past)

Hanley

6th wrote: »

Ok I went through the same thing as Hanley so could someone tell him when he ban is due to be lifted?

Hanley, you know next time you get banned it will most likely be a perma-ban? I think thats enough for you to maybe try not to let your heart rule your head when posting. It does make posting less fun but restrained posting is better than no post, right?

I've absolutely no intention of getting banned again!! It's not like I set out to do these things. Sometimes my fingers react faster than my I can control tho!!

I was just wondering what the cirumstances around a perma-ban are actually. There have been several posters who have been banned multiple times in the forum. Generally if they're good contributes who can just be a little outspoken at times they're allowed back in. The only perma-ban that jumps to mind is a recent one where a poster did nothing but call out other members and make immature "boobies" comments all the time. I can understand why that would results in a perma-ban!!

Also, is a 3rd ban automatically a perman-ban or does it depend on the situation and context of the post?

6th

Dragan wrote: »

Might as well bust out any Lolcats people have been storing.

Wow I feel better now!

AckwelFoley

mucho kudos to "check out ma guns" & "feel tha brun" kitty.

Made my day